Tractor on Club Rego ? Requirements ?

[gromit]

A friend in Country VIC uses a Grey Fergie to slash his property including a wide nature strip along the front of the block. He's been told that strictly speaking the tractor needs to be registered because he is on the nature strip.
He's considering putting it on a club permit but the question is does it require stop lights, flashing amber beacon etc.

He's happy to put a flashing amber beacon on for his own safety but doesn't really want the hassle of rigging up brake lights etc.
If it's not used after dark (or in conditions of reduced visibility) I don't think it needs lights. But does it actually need brake lights and indicators ??

I'd ask VicRoads but I don't think they would know, maybe an email will prompt a response.


Colin

[101 Ron]

CLUB PERMIT ????
Wrong wrong.
Club rego is only for club rallies and maintance movements.
We are very lucky in this country to have a club permit system.
Don't stuff it for the rest of us.

You should try permit to move or conditional registration or full time rego.

[BilboBoggles]

Actually club permits are no longer restricted to maintenance or club trips in Victoria.

Is the nature strip council or private property?

[MR LR]

There's a different system in Victoria Ron, they are allowed to use them on a certain number of days, might even have a logbook...?

So strictly speaking I suppose he can if he is in a tractor club...

Club rego doesn't require any lights at all, we put rear reflectors on the veterans for safety, but that's all.

If he only wants to use it as a tractor get agricultural conditional rego instead, as that will include the correct CTP (for if he slashes a kids head off...).

Otherwise do what I'd do and keep running it like it is, if he's not driving it on the road I doubt he'd be bothered by the police. (EDIT: Yes I know there's all the insurance risks blah blah)

Cheers
Will

[alien]

I had a quick hunt as I got curious :)

From the Vicroads web site...
http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Registration/WhatHasToBeRegistered/OtherVehiclesvesselsAndRegistrationIssues/WhenConditionalRegApply.htm
A sections from the above that may be of interest...
"Machinery Pack
To register a tractor, agricultural machine and mobile plant without the requirement of a VicRoads inspection, complete the Machinery Pack (http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Registration/FeesFormsAndFAQs/Forms/default.htm) found on the Registration forms page. You can also obtain a copy of the pack by visiting a VicRoads Customer Service Centre (http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/HaveYourSay/ContactUs/FindAVicRoadsOffice.htm), or call 13 11 71. The requirements and items you need to provide VicRoads are outlined in the Machinery Pack. This pack also provides guidance and information on everything you will need to obtain the conditional registration. "

"Machinery Pack [PDF 199KB, 4pp] (http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rdonlyres/61DAE6CE-828C-4093-9BE6-046E881A81F2/0/MachineryPackApril2011.pdf)

Important note about the Machinery Pack: As part of this application, make sure you also complete the Vehicle Registration form [PDF 44KB] (http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rdonlyres/5ED18E89-A4FF-47B9-B717-26FFEE26BC68/0/VRPIN_01697_Vehicle_Registration_1212_WEB.pdf). When you submit the Machinery Pack to a VicRoads Customer Service Centre, you may also be required to complete the Certificate of Approved Operations form [PDF 103KB] (http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rdonlyres/27EAD5BC-6AB4-4D26-B9D9-388E5E4CAF65/0/CertificateofApprovedOperationsAug2012.pdf). We will advise you if you need to complete this form. Finally, if you are a primary producer entitled to a concession of registration fees, please complete the Registration Concessions form [PDF 21KB] (http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rdonlyres/E1A614D7-5FA0-445D-BB7E-CBDDE5105974/0/VRPIN_00220_Rego_Concession_0712_WEB.pdf) also"


Looks to me like stop and indicator lights plus a mirror need to be fitted.
A horn and also a rotating beacon is required when on a road.
It's all stuff that could easily be fitted to the roll bar(need to confirm if acceptable ).

Cheers, Kyle.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

The issue still is that regular tractor implement conditional rego should be used for tractors and club rego should be used for club activities.

I strongly disagree with the 90 day scheme, for about $200 someone could go and get 4 old bangers and drive to work every day of the year on cheap rego. It is not the reason club rego was originated and it is these sorts of people who will spoil it for the rest of us.

As it is in NSW we could do a half circle of Australia on Historic rego (WA doesn't recognise NSW/Vic/Qld Club/Historic rego) so long as the trip was a Club event and that we spent no longer than 3 months continuously outside NSW, a single crossing of the border would re-set the 3 month clock.

If we had the 90 day rule, we'd get from Sydney through Gippsland along the Ocean road and have to end there and go back home to pick up another vehicle to do the rest of the lap. I don't want the 90 day rule under any circumstances.

[loanrangie]

The 90 day is excellent, my dad has 4 vehicles on club reg that would otherwise not see the road, these are all fully restored so definitely not some old rust buckets.

[MR LR]

The 90 day is excellent, my dad has 4 vehicles on club reg that would otherwise not see the road, these are all fully restored so definitely not some old rust buckets.
Point is, club rego should be used for club activities... Not so someone can have 4 EK Holdens that they drive to the train station every day of the year for work.

[alien]

The issue still is that regular tractor implement conditional rego should be used for tractors and club rego should be used for club activities.

I strongly disagree with the 90 day scheme, for about $200 someone could go and get 4 old bangers and drive to work every day of the year on cheap rego. It is not the reason club rego was originated and it is these sorts of people who will spoil it for the rest of us.

As it is in NSW we could do a half circle of Australia on Historic rego (WA doesn't recognise NSW/Vic/Qld Club/Historic rego) so long as the trip was a Club event and that we spent no longer than 3 months continuously outside NSW, a single crossing of the border would re-set the 3 month clock.

If we had the 90 day rule, we'd get from Sydney through Gippsland along the Ocean road and have to end there and go back home to pick up another vehicle to do the rest of the lap. I don't want the 90 day rule under any circumstances.
I agree that this is not a case for club rego.

Just curious.
What's the difference between using 4 old cars as daily drivers or 1 as a full time touring vehicle?
Seems to me they are letting both happen by default.

My feeling is club/historic rego is for "hobby" vehicles.
I shake my head at times after seeing some cars on these plates.
A rough bodied Mazda 323 was the latest I've seen.

[UncleHo]

I would be inclined to get 2 dayglow Orange sandwich boards made up with "Caution Slashing/Mowing in Progress" put then up at start of operations and take them in when he finishes,same as our local council does,that should cover him. :)

[MR LR]

I agree that this is not a case for club rego.

Just curious.
What's the difference between using 4 old cars as daily drivers or 1 as a full time touring vehicle?
Seems to me they are letting both happen by default.

My feeling is club/historic rego is for "hobby" vehicles.
I shake my head at times after seeing some cars on these plates.
A rough bodied Mazda 323 was the latest I've seen.
They're rorting the system and getting dirt cheap rego, much much cheaper to have 4 historic rego's than 1 normal registration.

Cheers
Will

[Sitec]

Not sure about other states, but here in SA registering a tractor is not exactly an expensive job... I use mine on the side of the road to mow the verge/medium strip.. (Something which even tho its council property, you as the adjoining land owner are obliged to do)... As I use it on the road, it has a beacon, working lights, horn and a large warning triangle. Its only a small tractor, but IMHO its worth registering properly. There is a local tractor club down the road with many Fergies etc, and ALL of them have the full compliment of lighting. I have a large rare Case Inter 1455xl sat on a mates place in the UK, and if ever I have the funds to get it out here that will also be fully registered with lights a plenty. Be seen I say! Over here, most Ag dealers can fill out the paperwork and register a tractor but we will want to see it and know that all the lights work!! :)

[gromit]

Thanks for all the replies.

This chap is just trying to make sure he is doing the right thing.
If agricultural rego exists then I'll get him to check that out.

The nature strip is along the front of his property but outside his fence so Council property. He was thinking Club permit just to keep the costs down if he does have to have it registered to leave his property to cut the nature strip. It will not be used on the road.
I'm not sure putting up a couple of warning signs will satisfy an over zealous officer of the law if the rego requirement is correct.

He belongs to an old machinery club that caters for vehicles including tractors so we'll check it out via them.


Colin

[350RRC]

Hi,

In Vic it's only about $100 to register a tractor like that. No inspection needed :) . Have a look at the Vicroads website and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

cheers, DL

[gromit]

Hi,

In Vic it's only about $100 to register a tractor like that. No inspection needed :) . Have a look at the Vicroads website and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

cheers, DL


Thanks, I've been browsing their website but haven't found that info yet so I'll keep looking.
For that price he'd just do it to make certain he was covered.


Colin

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I agree that this is not a case for club rego.

Just curious.
What's the difference between using 4 old cars as daily drivers or 1 as a full time touring vehicle?
Seems to me they are letting both happen by default.

My feeling is club/historic rego is for "hobby" vehicles.
I shake my head at times after seeing some cars on these plates.
A rough bodied Mazda 323 was the latest I've seen.The difference is the 4 old bangers don't have to be used in relation to any historic motoring or community activity, they can be used by anyone who has no interest in the vehicles or keeping the heritage alive. They are just old vehicles that can be registered cheaply.

The difference between that and the extended Club activity such as celebrating some journey like the Redex trial in a Historic Registered vehicle is that it has something to do with motoring heritage and the reason for club rego in the first place. With the 90 day rule these long reinactments are restricted.

[DoubleChevron]

The issue still is that regular tractor implement conditional rego should be used for tractors and club rego should be used for club activities.

I strongly disagree with the 90 day scheme, for about $200 someone could go and get 4 old bangers and drive to work every day of the year on cheap rego. It is not the reason club rego was originated and it is these sorts of people who will spoil it for the rest of us.

.

What a lot of crap.... You really think *anyone* will save money driving 4 cars ... sigh ... 4 x 90day club permits == the same cost as registering a single car for a year. Then you have 4cars you need to initially get road worthy certificates/safety certificates, 4 x cars to maintain, 4 x insurance .............

To even dream this would be cheaper than buying one good car is absolutely laughable. In what world that we live in do you think you'll find a car capable of being roadworthied for $200 ??

I have four cars on club permits... Lets see my savings.

4 x comprehensive insurance
4 x club permits (45 days will suffice for each no doubt, not 90)
4 x maitenance... even if there not used, tires deteriate, rubber deteriates, 25+year old cars rust ... There engine gasket get old and weepy, they don't like sitting un-used.

Please tell me how me running a

1963 Citroen ID19 parasine (aussie assembled) restored
1963 Citroen ID19 parasine (aussie assembled) battered/original... just fabulously ugly.
1985 Citroen CX2500 GTi Turbo personal import
1985 Range Rover 5spd.

This is the battered original one ...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/853.jpg

it looks old and ****ty (infact any features the original factory paint on several of it's panels) .... Saving me a god damn fortune driving such a pile of crap it is :p

Now explain to me in any sensible terms how I'm saving money over buying a tidy 10year old Camry and just servicing it annually until I throw it away.

With the tractor, I'd be telling them to go shove there heads up there arse.... I don't register my ride on mower to cut the very long nature strip here (I'm acreage), and I'd be buggered if I'd register a tractor to do the same thing.

I've nothign against a battered old Mazda 323 on club rego. Just because it's not someone elses taste in cars means nothing to me. how do you know it's not an old car that's been in the family for 30years since new (for example a deceased grandmothers car) they can't bring themselves to get rid of.

I've seen really tidy Toyota crowns and 120y's on club permits too.... Bloody rippa, good on them. The things would be chucked to scrap metal if someone didn't have interest in them. I see old commonbores on club rego these days too..... They interest me about as much as a dog turd on the footpath..... My generation grew up in them, so why shouldn't they have fond memories of them and want one to tidy up :cool:

It really has got me buggered why everyone seems think "someone somewhere is rorting the system ... so we should change it" ... WTF ??? It's bloody brilliant.... This old 323... let me guess, it was a friend of a friend of a friend that "saw it and reckoned they were abusing the scheme" :wallbash::wallbash::wallbash:

seeya,
Shane L.

[DoubleChevron]

The difference is the 4 old bangers don't have to be used in relation to any historic motoring or community activity, they can be used by anyone who has no interest in the vehicles or keeping the heritage alive. They are just old vehicles that can be registered cheaply.

The difference between that and the extended Club activity such as celebrating some journey like the Redex trial in a Historic Registered vehicle is that it has something to do with motoring heritage and the reason for club rego in the first place. With the 90 day rule these long reinactments are restricted.

Why are people repeating this crap .... 90days club permits are exactly 1/4 of the cost of 365 normal registration .......... Guess how much registering 4 car on club permits will cost :wallbash::wallbash: If you look your computer under "accesories" you'll find a calculator if your struggling with the maths. Now add in 4 lots of insurance and 4 lots of maintenance.

You really think *anyone* can run a 30+year old car without being an enthusiast that spends either a bucket load of money on upkeep .... or 1/2 there life tinkering with cars in the shed :confused:

There is no savings to be had .... there is a horendous amount of time and money to be spent in upkeep.... I doubt you'll find anyone anywhere that's driving one for "cheap rego" .... it simply can't happen.

seeya,
Shane L.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hi Shane

In NSW you would only have 2 cars on Historic rego the CX2500 and the Range Rover are not old enough so would be on full rego at a couple of grand and the same again for your insurance. Basically any car on full rego with insurance is going to cost people at least a grand. In NSW Historic Rego and NRMA Classic Comprehensive combined is less than $150, 4 of them would be $600.

I personally have 2 cars on full rego, 2 braked trailers on full rego, 2 vehicles and a trailer on Historic. Most years the combined use of the vehicles on HCRS would be less than 90 days, but I like the option of using them if my club decided to run an extended trip.

The point of club rego is not to save money, it is to be able to occasionally use the vehicle of your hobby out on the road without having to spend thousands on rego and insurance.

The people I'm concerned about are to ones who and go out and buy a clapped out old banger for a couple of hundred, probably not insure it but use the 90 day Club rego to drive it without any supervision until it dies and they buy another old banger.

[DoubleChevron]

The people I'm concerned about are to ones who and go out and buy a clapped out old banger for a couple of hundred, probably not insure it but use the 90 day Club rego to drive it without any supervision until it dies and they buy another old banger.

That's not a concern .......... You see you have to find a club that will accept the car... Now if I go and by for example a 1985 Magna for $200 bucks ........... And it is by some miracle roadworthy.... What car club ... anywhere do you think will allow the car to go onto a permit through there club.................................... It's simply not going to happen, not ever :)

BTW: My father and I both had cars on the old Victorian scheme that was like NSW .... It sucked so bad we both wasted money for several years paying the pointless fee before giving up on it. You see most club runs are miles away in a car you can't legally drive ... except for "maintenance" ... I gave it away when I had my father ring me and say someone at his work had seem my club permit car out and about 2days in a row ... "He's obvisiously using it to drive to work" ............... Sadly they didn't complain to me in person ( I can be rather tactless and blunt to assholes) ..... He was right he did see it out at the same time two days in a row ... The first day was to the exhaust shop, the 2nd day was upto pirtek to sort out some hydraulic bits. I never did bother to ever drive any car from that day forward on the club permit scheme. The anal assholes could keep there scheme all to themselves. They all just wanted to feel they had power over your use of your car... and were scared ****less "somoene, somewhere" was abusing there scheme :rolleyes:

The 90day permit scheme is unbelievable. and yes I do drive permit cars to work often (something someone was whinging about above). Why shouldn't I ?? It's a gentle trip along country roads that is perfect for keeping vintage cars in nice running order.

seeya,
Shane L.

[mick88]

Tractor rego in Vic is not much more than registering a trailer,
$79.20 (annual fee) to be exact. No doubt first rego is a few more bucks and a bit of mucking around.

Cheers, Mick.

[MR LR]

That's not a concern .......... You see you have to find a club that will accept the car... Now if I go and by for example a 1985 Magna for $200 bucks ........... And it is by some miracle roadworthy.... What car club ... anywhere do you think will allow the car to go onto a permit through there club.................................... It's simply not going to happen, not ever :)

BTW: My father and I both had cars on the old Victorian scheme that was like NSW .... It sucked so bad we both wasted money for several years paying the pointless fee before giving up on it. You see most club runs are miles away in a car you can't legally drive ... except for "maintenance" ... I gave it away when I had my father ring me and say someone at his work had seem my club permit car out and about 2days in a row ... "He's obvisiously using it to drive to work" ............... Sadly they didn't complain to me in person ( I can be rather tactless and blunt to assholes) ..... He was right he did see it out at the same time two days in a row ... The first day was to the exhaust shop, the 2nd day was upto pirtek to sort out some hydraulic bits. I never did bother to ever drive any car from that day forward on the club permit scheme. The anal assholes could keep there scheme all to themselves. They all just wanted to feel they had power over your use of your car... and were scared ****less "somoene, somewhere" was abusing there scheme :rolleyes:

The 90day permit scheme is unbelievable. and yes I do drive permit cars to work often (something someone was whinging about above). Why shouldn't I ?? It's a gentle trip along country roads that is perfect for keeping vintage cars in nice running order.

seeya,
Shane L.
Don't call your cockroaches Vintage, some of us have actual Vintage cars, and could take offence :p (although most of ours are Veteran). I will admit they are a classic though :D

It cost's us $150 to have our 1909 4.7 L SCAT comprehensively insured and registered for a year, the 1915 Rover motorcycle costs a tiny bit less, it has a much lower agreed value, the 1918 Crossley, 1912 Delahaye, 1905 Rover, and 1948 MG TC, all also cost $150 a year, that is $900 all up, to have 6 vehicles registered for club use, which does actually include travelling to and from the activity.

So I can have 6 vehicles on the road and comprehensively insured for half what it costs to register and have 3rd party property damage on my '83 Range Rover, that's before I even include wear and tear.

The system has the ability to be rorted, nothing is stopping someone registering an XE Falcon, which is a perfectly daily driveable car on club plates with the Ford club, in fact, they could buy 4 of them for $200 each, have one set of good wheels and tyres they swap between them (which isn't unheard of, we are on an LR forum after all!), the purchase price is the same as what my RRC cost me, and having 4 cars means you can always keep 1 on the road. So yes the system has the ability to be rorted, it originally came from the Veteran car club, and the RTA decided one day to introduce a 30 year rule, the issue with this is that it changes things from where it originally came from, which was a permit, not a registration, if the system gets abused, and something bad happens, we will all pay the price. IMHO it is stupid, and I know people that were very active in stopping it getting introduced to NSW, as it would just open up an opportunity to yobbos.

It is entirely possible to have 4 car's running on 'H' plates cheaper than 1 on normal rego.

Cheers
Will

EDIT: I do agree with you to an extent, and completely about the anal people that like to nitpick, however I don't want to lose the club rego scheme. I also agree with driving vehicles to both keep them running, and to have things done, which may include a stop off at work for the day, my comment was saying that someone can have these older cars, for the sole purpose of commuting, and do it a lot cheaper, potentially ruining it for the rest of us.

[V8Ian]

I spend a bit of time on an historic vehicle forum and the Victorians love and cherish their scheme. The chances of rorting is very remote, as a condition of historic rego is an approved club membership. Any abuse or non-conformance has repercussions on the club and individual, possibly resulting in the removal of the club's approval to authorize historic concessions for all members. Most clubs have a qualifying period before approval for concession and a minimum number of meetings and events to be attended to retain membership. All too much guff for non-enthusiasts, weeding out the scammers.

[33chinacars]

As Mick has said . In Victoria tractor rego is only $79.20. Not much at all. Better to be safe than sorry IMO.

Me I've got 3 cars, 2 tractors, 4 bikes, 3 trailers & 1 caravan . All with full rego & I just dropped 1 car off the list. Even though I live on a back road its not worth the risk as the cops go past regularly. With my luck I'd get caught. The least they do when going up & down my back road is to give me a wave.

Gary

[DoubleChevron]

Don't call your cockroaches Vintage, some of us have actual Vintage cars, and could take offence :p (although most of ours are Veteran). I will admit they are a classic though :D

It cost's us $150 to have our 1909 4.7 L SCAT comprehensively insured and registered for a year, the 1915 Rover motorcycle costs a tiny bit less, it has a much lower agreed value, the 1918 Crossley, 1912 Delahaye, 1905 Rover, and 1948 MG TC, all also cost $150 a year, that is $900 all up, to have 6 vehicles registered for club use, which does actually include travelling to and from the activity.

So I can have 6 vehicles on the road and comprehensively insured for half what it costs to register and have 3rd party property damage on my '83 Range Rover, that's before I even include wear and tear.

The system has the ability to be rorted, nothing is stopping someone registering an XE Falcon, which is a perfectly daily driveable car on club plates with the Ford club, in fact, they could buy 4 of them for $200 each, have one set of good wheels and tyres they swap between them (which isn't unheard of, we are on an LR forum after all!), the purchase price is the same as what my RRC cost me, and having 4 cars means you can always keep 1 on the road. So yes the system has the ability to be rorted, it originally came from the Veteran car club, and the RTA decided one day to introduce a 30 year rule, the issue with this is that it changes things from where it originally came from, which was a permit, not a registration, if the system gets abused, and something bad happens, we will all pay the price. IMHO it is stupid, and I know people that were very active in stopping it getting introduced to NSW, as it would just open up an opportunity to yobbos.

It is entirely possible to have 4 car's running on 'H' plates cheaper than 1 on normal rego.

Cheers
Will

EDIT: I do agree with you to an extent, and completely about the anal people that like to nitpick, however I don't want to lose the club rego scheme. I also agree with driving vehicles to both keep them running, and to have things done, which may include a stop off at work for the day, my comment was saying that someone can have these older cars, for the sole purpose of commuting, and do it a lot cheaper, potentially ruining it for the rest of us.

I don't understand. Doesn't NSW have the utterly useless scheme like Victoria used to have. You could have 30cars on club permits and still nothing to drive ..... as you can only drive them to club events !!! A cop that see's one parked at a supermarket or shop ... or any "useful" sort of location will immediatly book the driver.

The whole of Australia should go to the Victorian scheme, there is no "grey" areas... People are free to drive there cars as they please, anytime they please,... But only for 90days of the year (which is HEAPS, infact the first two years I had my CX on a club permit I used it about 30days a year).

Why is everyone so worried "someone, somewhere, *might* be abusing the scheme".... I'll let you in on a secret .... It doesn't matter what scheme is in place, a tiny percentage will try too abuse it .... It would likely be far less than those that simply drive unregistered and uninsured though!

the reason most clubs don't want the victorian scheme is there scared ****less they'll loose there "power and control" over there members... If you want a laugh, have a read here .... You'll almost be able to name the car club members from the clubs your a part of given there descriptions

CarClub (http://feralsportscarclub.net/CarClub.html)

seeya,
Shane L/.
PS: I new I'd get someone in refering to my cars as Vintage :Rolling::Rolling::Rolling: Country roads are actually dangerous for veteran/vintage as the speed differential to the traffic is enormous

[Lotz-A-Landies]

...
... BTW: My father and I both had cars on the old Victorian scheme that was like NSW .... It sucked so bad we both wasted money for several years paying the pointless fee before giving up on it. You see most club runs are miles away in a car you can't legally drive ... except for "maintenance" ... I gave it away when I had my father ring me and say someone at his work had seem my club permit car out and about 2days in a row ... "He's obvisiously using it to drive to work" ............... Sadly they didn't complain to me in person ( I can be rather tactless and blunt to assholes) ..... He was right he did see it out at the same time two days in a row ... The first day was to the exhaust shop, the 2nd day was upto pirtek to sort out some hydraulic bits. I never did bother to ever drive any car from that day forward on the club permit scheme. The anal assholes could keep there scheme all to themselves. They all just wanted to feel they had power over your use of your car... and were scared ****less "somoene, somewhere" was abusing there scheme :rolleyes:

... It sounds like a problem of the club you were associated with. e.g. we had a member with a SIIA FFR, this member did drive the HCRS vehicle to work on a number of days and I as the Registrar approved the trips. The reason, the fellow was a radio broadcast technician and he was taking the vehicle to the workshops at the ABC Haymarket, where specialist repairs could be attended.

The whole issue for maintenance drive is the interpretation of "reasonable distance" for the particular type of vehicle and in NSW that is for the individual clubs to interpret and set rules around.

Someone can always report it to the RMS and the Club Registrar to answer, this is not a problem. It is a problem when someone with a CMP "blitz" truck uses the truck to go out into the local National Park or State forest to collect bush rock for sale. So getting a report on that is good and a reason for the Club to advise the RMS to cancel the HCRS on the vehicle.

Without that oversight it is more open to abuse and opens us up the a 90day rego system at a proportion of full rego as in Vic. A far more expensive exercise than what we have in NSW today.

[DoubleChevron]

Without that oversight it is more open to abuse and opens us up the a 90day rego system at a proportion of full rego as in Vic. A far more expensive exercise than what we have in NSW today.

Nah, you'd love it ... To put it into perspective. My cars are on 45day permits. It is $66 a year to drive it 45days a year (or double if you want the full 90days)... If your insured through shannons your premium drops as it's a permit car. There is no stamp duty, no plate fees, no transfer fees. If your a member of a club that has it's own safety inspectors you don't need a roadworthy certificate.

The reason Victorians keep on about how brilliant the system is ..... is because it IS. I look outside and see it's a nice day, so I chuck the baby and kids seats in the back of the old ID19 and we go out in it for the day... try that with the utterly useless *****ful permit system we used to have. Everytime the sun shines and it's a nice day you play "spot the cool car" as classic cars and street rods flood the roads wearing club plates (I **** you not, every nice day you see HEAPS of old classic cars out driving around just for the fun of it).

How about this ... Need to help a mate shift a car .. or pickup a parts car ? Fire up the Rangie, fill in the log book and off you go... It would be useless as both a 4wd and a tow vehicle if it was the old club permit scheme ... I couldn't even go pull out someone bogged in lane opposite my place with the Range Rover on the old club permit scheme.

The NSW scheme like the old Victorian one is great for people that like to look at there cars... polish them ... sit in them in the shed .... but not anyone that actually wants to drive them.

Last time I was driving the Rangie ... I parked at Aldi next to a bloody ripper of an old Holden ute... really early thing early 60's. It too was wearing club plates. This scheme has completely changed the classic car movement in victoria. The anal bastards that love power over everyone in the car clubs HATE IT with a passion.

seeya,
Shane L.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Nah, you'd love it ... To put it into perspective. My cars are on 45day permits. It is $66 a year to drive it 45days a year (or double if you want the full 90days)... seeya,
Shane L.In NSW $58 for the whole year only restricted by the number of days your club/s have events and the maintenance activities in between.

If we are going to have a proportional scheme, then it should apply to ALL vehicles, not just old ones and maybe could be charged on a daily basis in the same manner as the eTag for motorways. How many people commute on public transport and only use their car on weekends, think of the savings, we could only pay 2/7th of full rego and still use the vehicles in the same manner. Of course if they are parked on the street they would have to have 365 day rego.

However Governments would never allow it because of the huge drop in revenue and taxes.

[mick88]

In NSW $58 for the whole year only restricted by the number of days your club/s have events and the maintenance activities in between.

If we are going to have a proportional scheme, then it should apply to ALL vehicles, not just old ones and maybe could be charged on a daily basis in the same manner as the eTag for motorways. How many people commute on public transport and only use their car on weekends, think of the savings, we could only pay 2/7th of full rego and still use the vehicles in the same manner. Of course if they are parked on the street they would have to have 365 day rego.

However Governments would never allow it because of the huge drop in revenue and taxes.


Or.... pay a basic registration fee per vehicle....say $75 each and have the third party component on your licence fee so that your annual licence fee is $500 per annum. After all you can only drive one vehicle at a time. It would be great for people who wish to own several vehicles.
The revunue raisers could even put in more speed/safety cameras if it looked like they were going to be tight for income! ;)

Cheers, Mick.

[DoubleChevron]

Or.... pay a basic registration fee per vehicle....say $75 each and have the third party component on your licence fee so that your annual licence fee is $500 per annum. After all you can only drive one vehicle at a time. It would be great for people who wish to own several vehicles.
The revunue raisers could even put in more speed/safety cameras if it looked like they were going to be tight for income! ;)

Cheers, Mick.

"sort of" works... what about the family that have several drivers but can only afford one car though ............... I reckon it would cause a lot of people to drive unlicensed due to the crippling costs of getting a license.... Or people that don't even own a car but want to keep there license :confused: Think parents and kids that share the same car. You could easily have 4 licensed drivers and one car.

[Stuck]

While we're on the subject of tractors, cars, rego's and distorting the rules. About 20 years ago there was a bloke doing the rounds of the car show circuit with a fairly wild old Falcon. Blown, injected, massive rubber, full chassis and cage, the whole bit. Who was writing the pink slips for this thing was a mystery to a lot of people until a car magazine hit the stands reporting that he had to get a permit to bring it into town for the photo shoot. Turned out that the bloke had a property and the Falcon was a "farm implement" :D.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I believe that something similar exists in Germany, someone here will undoubtedly know. It seems that they can have several vehicles from the same address with plates all carrying the same number.

We have the technology today, it could be a cheap transponder linked to an eTag with receivers connected to the phone systems. If the transponder is moving and there is no money in your tag account it debits the daily fee. If you have it on a truck or trailer you log onto your account and register a non-taxible movement. If a car passes a traffic camera without a transponder or no money in the account a photo is taken and you recieve the $1,200 unregistered and uninsured fine in the mail.

[gromit]

Interesting to hear all the different viewpoints on the Club Permit system.
Sounds like my mate shouldn't have worried because tractor rego is relatively cheap, the interesting thing will be whether he has to add lights horn etc.

The Victorian system seems much more flexible now, under the old system you could only drive the vehicle to Club events and to a place of repair.
Also under the old system I believe the historic rego wasn't on the VicRoads computer whereas under the new system it is on the computer.

All the 'rules' made up by individual Clubs are a PITA. Must be a member for 2 years before you can apply, must attend a certain number of meetings, must be 'standard' and not modified. The most recent I heard was a club where a non-standard paint colour means you couldn't get onto the Club Permit system. The problem I guess is as the clubs get bigger they cannot 'control' their members so they start creating 'rules'.
The Clubs have the option of having a 'scruitneer' sign the vehicle off instead of carrying out a roadworthy. Most are moving towards insisting on a Roadworthy because of potential liability issues.

The easiest thing to do is form your own Club (like SLoW), keep the membership small and ensure only people you can trust are allowed to join. The application paperwork can be sourced from VicRoads ;)

Have a read of this :-
CarClub2 (http://feralsportscarclub.net/CarClub2.html)

I'm sure a few people will throw a tanty about their comments but this is the current Club Permit system in VIC and I think that they have worked the system to their advantage. Good on them and I just love the vehicles they are running.


Colin

[Lotz-A-Landies]

While we're on the subject of tractors, cars, rego's and distorting the rules. About 20 years ago there was a bloke doing the rounds of the car show circuit with a fairly wild old Falcon. Blown, injected, massive rubber, full chassis and cage, the whole bit. Who was writing the pink slips for this thing was a mystery to a lot of people until a car magazine hit the stands reporting that he had to get a permit to bring it into town for the photo shoot. Turned out that the bloke had a property and the Falcon was a "farm implement" :D.In NSW this is covered under the conditional Registration for "Street Rods"
Conditional Registration Guide (vehicle sheet) Street rod
vehicle requirements:A street rod is a vehicle that has been modified for safe road use and that:
• has a body and frame that were built before 1949, or,
• is a replica of a vehicle the body and frame of which were built before 1949
Mandatory conditions:
• Use only in conjunction with authorised club event or maintenance.

There is currently an FV439 in NSW. When he presented the paperwork to RMS they wouldn't accept tracked vehicles on HCRS. Unfortunately for the RMS the import paperwork had been incorrectly produced by the DOT as Alvis FV439 CV (Tractor) instead of: FV439 CV(Tracked), so its registered as a tractor on C plates.

[101 Ron]

I have a few vehicles on historic Rego in NSW.
I can only drive one at a time.
The cost is I think 85 dollars a vehicle.( no matter what size it is)
Three different clubs can be written down on the yearly renewal.
A club inspector checks my vehicles once a year to ensure they are road worthy.
Between Three different clubs usually there is a run going on some where.
My main club has no problem with me going for a drive some where so long as it is recorded with the club registra.......ie estimated times and locations.
I think it is a great system with just enough freedom and control at the same time.
I did a run to a local 4WD club PR at a ARB shop just locally in my old Studebaker 6x6.
I had not used the old girl for a while and found it needed a new battery and the fuel in the tank had gone stale.
Rung up the club registra and organised a 50 km drive to burn through a bit of fresh fuel.
No Problems.
Wondering if I should drive it to the club X mas do from Nowra to Sydney and return..........plently of reasons and places to drive if you really want to under the NSW system.

[101 Ron]

Before 1955 there was no historic rego.
A major historic motor bike club was wearing a track to the roads authority getting permits to move for every club run.
It became too hard so a Historic rego system was tried.
Thanks to good management of past clubs we still have a historic system which is cheap and fair.
I want to keep it that way.
Historic rego insurance will not cover personal injury from a tractor doing something it should not be doing with the rego supplied.

[101 Ron]

The street rod clubs work very hard with the rego and state govts to get a working solution to their engineering and driving club needs so everyone is happy .

[DoubleChevron]

The street rod clubs work very hard with the rego and state govts to get a working solution to their engineering and driving club needs so everyone is happy .

The victorian street rod scheme is now absolutely brilliant too.... There used to be just one inspector (hows that for giving someone the power over all :eek: ) for the whole of victoria. It doesn't take much imagination to see how this worked out... give one single person a bit of power .....

Now it's bloody fantastic, get an engineer in the approved list at VicRoads (there is several in ballarat alone) to eyeball the car and say it's "safe" for road use (not roadworthy, that's a technical black and white term) and you can put it on a club permit through any club .... and actually drive and enjoy the car ... How good is that .... :banana::banana::banana:

The victorian scheme is so good, there is no need for anyone anywhere to "rort" it as you can actually use and drive the car legally if you want.... No "grey" areas. It's almost worth a car lover shifting to Victoria to access... We owe Vicroads and the classic car movement in Victoria a huge thanks for getting this implemented. It really has transformed the classic car movement :TakeABow::TakeABow:

[MR LR]

The victorian street rod scheme is now absolutely brilliant too.... There used to be just one inspector (hows that for giving someone the power over all :eek: ) for the whole of victoria. It doesn't take much imagination to see how this worked out... give one single person a bit of power .....

Now it's bloody fantastic, get an engineer in the approved list at VicRoads (there is several in ballarat alone) to eyeball the car and say it's "safe" for road use (not roadworthy, that's a technical black and white term) and you can put it on a club permit through any club .... and actually drive and enjoy the car ... How good is that .... :banana::banana::banana:

The victorian scheme is so good, there is no need for anyone anywhere to "rort" it as you can actually use and drive the car legally if you want.... No "grey" areas. It's almost worth a car lover shifting to Victoria to access... We owe Vicroads and the classic car movement in Victoria a huge thanks for getting this implemented. It really has transformed the classic car movement :TakeABow::TakeABow:
I won't move to Victoria... it's full of Victorians :p

... although there is some good 4WDing down there.. and lots of Land Rovers... and snow (although we have it too)... and I could drive my RRC on H plates... BUT I don't want to be done for 1km/h over... oh and it's full of Victorians :p

I'll stay where I am, making my own car club sounds good though :D

[UncleHo]

$85 For Historic in Vic :eek: try $184.40 renewal for a 4 cylinder Series 2/2a,with the restrictions that go with it, Must belong to a recognised car club, Must have run/trip number from the club vehicle registration officer,or road testing within a radius of 15 KLM or to travel to specialist repair mechanic, proof of booking to be supplied to inquiring Police/Transport officer. full rego Qld on 4 cylinder $706.40 6cyl $800? V8 $1K plus :twisted:


Qld Tpt is now investigating Vic scheme,but Combined Council of Historic Motoring Clubs are cool on the whole thing, as we were informed at the Jeep Club Meeting last night 12/11/13.

[DoubleChevron]

$85 For Historic in Vic :eek: try $184.40 renewal for a 4 cylinder Series 2/2a,with the restrictions that go with it, Must belong to a recognised car club, Must have run/trip number from the club vehicle registration officer,or road testing within a radius of 15 KLM or to travel to specialist repair mechanic, proof of booking to be supplied to inquiring Police/Transport officer. full rego Qld on 4 cylinder $706.40 6cyl $800? V8 $1K plus :twisted:


Qld Tpt is now investigating Vic scheme,but Combined Council of Historic Motoring Clubs are cool on the whole thing, as we were informed at the Jeep Club Meeting last night 12/11/13.

It depends on the postcode you live in (due to the 3rd party insurance component). It's $67 for 45days in this area or double for 90days .... which is 1/4 of the "standard" annual full registration which is about $600.

The victorian system is vastly better than NSW for example as the 3party injury insurance is a part of our registration fees. It is NEVER cheaper once this stuff is privatised.

seeya,
Shane L.

[Scouse]

The victorian system is vastly better than NSW for example as the 3party injury insurance is a part of our registration fees. It is NEVER cheaper once this stuff is privatised.
Not a good example to use. NSW 3rd party insurance (Green Slip) is included in the fee too.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

The victorian system is vastly better than NSW for example as the 3party injury insurance is a part of our registration fees. It is NEVER cheaper once this stuff is privatised.
Not a good example to use. NSW 3rd party insurance (Green Slip) is included in the fee too.And our whole year HCRS is still cheaper than the Victorian 45 day rate.

It must be the only one where a type of NSW Rego is less expensive than any other State in the country!

[gromit]

It depends on the postcode you live in (due to the 3rd party insurance component). It's $67 for 45days in this area or double for 90days .... which is 1/4 of the "standard" annual full registration which is about $600.

The victorian system is vastly better than NSW for example as the 3party injury insurance is a part of our registration fees. It is NEVER cheaper once this stuff is privatised.

seeya,
Shane L.

Shane,
It doesn't mention any changes in fees depending where you live on the VicRoads website.
Permit fees : VicRoads (http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Registration/FeesFormsAndFAQs/Fees/PermitFees.htm)

It also doesn't mention a fee for the plates, are they provided FOC ?
Registration forms - VicRoads (http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Registration/FeesFormsAndFAQs/Forms/)

I'm in the process of registering a 'Club' so hopefully all will become clear soon.


Here is another link to the Feral Sports Car Club website. Some of it is politically incorrect so if you are easily offended don't visit the site.
index (http://feralsportscarclub.net/)
Check out 'the threat to the great Aussie ute'


Colin

[DoubleChevron]

Shane,
It doesn't mention any changes in fees depending where you live on the VicRoads website.
Permit fees : VicRoads (http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Registration/FeesFormsAndFAQs/Fees/PermitFees.htm)

It also doesn't mention a fee for the plates, are they provided FOC ?
Registration forms - VicRoads (http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Registration/FeesFormsAndFAQs/Forms/)

I'm in the process of registering a 'Club' so hopefully all will become clear soon.


Here is another link to the Feral Sports Car Club website. Some of it is politically incorrect so if you are easily offended don't visit the site.
index (http://feralsportscarclub.net/)
Check out 'the threat to the great Aussie ute'


Colin

There is no plate fees, no stamp duty, no transfer fees. All I know is dependent on where you live, the cost of car registration can differ by a small amount (full registration). ie: Cars registered in melbourne cost more than ballarat. I assumed it was to do with the 3rd party injury portion of the renewel and the fact your statistically more likely to have an accident if your located in a big city. However your right, it's there in black and white... it's $67 for everyone :) (plus logbook)

It really is a brilliant scheme... I'm driving my Citroen CX2500 today ... To work, to the bakery and all over. ie: I'm having a bloody ball driving the car unlike the crappy old system we had where it would sit in the shed un-used for 360 days a year unless you risked a "maitenance" drive which certainly meant you couldn't drive anywhere useful... park in any sort of carpark and you instantly scream at the police to stop "why do you have a club permit car here... now"...... Gee's the scheme is brilliant.

seeya,
Shane L.

[UncleHo]

Also mentioned at the MJCQ meeting is Qld Transport idea of the Vic scheme, 45 days no options,and keeping the Rego at $185-225 (commercials) so the winner is Qld Tpt aka can-almost-do Newmann :(

The Breakdown of it is as follows: CTP $ 56.60
Rego Fee. $280.05
Rego Cons. $201.10
Traffic Improvement $ 48.85

Total $184.40

If Paid after Due date upped to $197.75 :eek:

Taken from my current Rego papers for the 2a GS

[MR LR]

I don't know what kind of police you had in Victoria when the old scheme was in Shane, but I just asked dad and his dad and none of us have ever been asked anything by the police about driving the historically registered vehicles, not even me on P plates, and technically I can't drive something without a seatbelt! They're usually too busy gawking!

Cheers
Will

[gromit]

There is no plate fees, no stamp duty, no transfer fees. All I know is dependent on where you live, the cost of car registration can differ by a small amount (full registration). ie: Cars registered in melbourne cost more than ballarat. I assumed it was to do with the 3rd party injury portion of the renewel and the fact your statistically more likely to have an accident if your located in a big city. However your right, it's there in black and white... it's $67 for everyone :) (plus logbook)

It really is a brilliant scheme... I'm driving my Citroen CX2500 today ... To work, to the bakery and all over. ie: I'm having a bloody ball driving the car unlike the crappy old system we had where it would sit in the shed un-used for 360 days a year unless you risked a "maitenance" drive which certainly meant you couldn't drive anywhere useful... park in any sort of carpark and you instantly scream at the police to stop "why do you have a club permit car here... now"...... Gee's the scheme is brilliant.

seeya,
Shane L.

As I drove out to Heidelberg early yesterday I saw 3 vehicles on Club permits in the rush hour traffic.
I'd have to agree that they are now out there, getting used rather than sitting in a shed waiting for the next 'Club Run'.


Colin

[tony66_au]

I am one of 2 Scrutineers for my local car club, the club is a small all breeds classic car, truck and machinery club and we are picky about members catering mainly to like minded people who dont want the hassle of the death by committee Car clubs.

We encourage family to participate and we do all our own scrutineering to a high but common sense standard.

I have 2 cars on 45 day permits and my wife has 2 as well and together there would be 15 log book entries between the 4 cars per year.

Yup, I have seen VB SL commodores on club plates and sure they looked their age and this made me cringe but if thats what the person wants then so be it.

Every 12 months when the renewal comes in we go over the club cars and do a shakedown run with one of us in the passenger seat.

I have knocked 2 cars since the permit system was in operation and both were honest mistakes on the part of the owner and quickly rectified.

The system is self governing, it works and should be left that way.

My club cars are registered and fully comp insured for under $200 per year which has to be a good thing considering the number of uninsured cars on the roads, I enjoy them, my kids enjoy them and my wife gets to have a toy too!

[Scouse]

I don't know what kind of police you had in Victoria when the old scheme was in Shane, but I just asked dad and his dad and none of us have ever been asked anything by the police about driving the historically registered vehicles, A couple in the club I'm involved with have been pulled over for driving around mid-week. Luckily it was legit & they were on their way to their mechanic, and the police checked the story too.

[UncleHo]

It will be interesting late next year when Qld does away with rego labels,as if one is in an area with little highway policing I can see the system being rorted particular by vehicles with personalised plates.

[tony66_au]

We work on the basic premise that an idle car, not driven regularly becomes a liability and will deteriorate.

So I will grab my wifes 350SLC and do a 50 km round trip on the highway.

My 450SEL sat around a lot and in the first year of club reg developed a few issues which has since seen the car retired from the road for restoration. The car was (When I bought it) a daily driver for the previous fastidious owner (Who bought it near new in 74) and the issues that developed were (Im reliably told) due to the car sitting for months on end.

Classic cars need to be driven as they are largely unrestored, Vintage cars on the other hand (And by Vintage I mean 20's, 30's and 40's) will have been spannered and restored and seem to do ok sitting in a shed for a hand full of outings a year.

The best and nicest cars in the club will do 50 or 60 km per week just to warm them up and circulate fluids a bit and the definition of a Classic car in my opinion is one you have an emotional attachment to.

Chatting to a girl at the moment who has a 1979 Ford Fairmont GXL who was refused a permit by another club because her car was not old enough for the club which is their choice but at 34 the car is fine by our standards even if its not a car id personally own.

The car BTW has been made very sound using all NOS parts and passed a Vic roadworthy before the lass came to us, she also has her eye on a 1975 Range Rover as her next project which made me smile when she asked tentatively if she could also place it on a permit when the time came.

My reply made her day and seeing the enthusiasm on her 20 something year old face reminded me why Car clubs are such a good thing.

Something else id sadly noted was the habit a few clubs fell into of making up rules as they went along and for whatever reason this annoys me, Elitist waffle and excuses to prevent people from enjoying their hobby is both unfair and I feel not in the spirit of the thing............

[Lotz-A-Landies]

The NSW Historic plated vehicles still have a rego label. Go figure?

[tony66_au]

It will be interesting late next year when Qld does away with rego labels,as if one is in an area with little highway policing I can see the system being rorted particular by vehicles with personalised plates.


Vic too, January 1st they are gone

[101RRS]

I have just put my Haflinger on ACT Historic Rego - no rego stickers here.

Usage has dropped off substantially - in the last month driven twice, one test run and a drive to a club meeting where previous I used it as my local run around car and was used four or five times a week on short trips .

Our system is similar to the NSW system - max 3000km per year, log book, club events only except trips for maintenance and max of 40km test drives so I am intending to do a 40km test run each week for the reasons mentioned by Tony.

The local Council of Motor Clubs had been in long negotiations with the ACT government to bring in a 90 day system similar to Vic. The public service here are not supportive of historic rego and even though negotiations had been going on for years little headway had been made but we had not be given a No. Then a few months before the last ACT election a frustrated club member wrote a quite abusive letter to the ACT Chief Minister on the subject and we got an answer within two weeks - a resounding No - using political reasoning such as if you can afford to own more than one car you can afford full rego or go on Historic rego.

So for us in the ACT we are unlikely to get anything like the Vic system for a long time - for me this system would be almost the perfect system but I can only hope it comes in someday. At least I do not have to do annual roadworthy inspections.

Garry

[tony66_au]

I have just put my Haflinger on ACT Historic Rego - no rego stickers here.

Usage has dropped off substantially - in the last month driven twice, one test run and a drive to a club meeting where previous I used it as my local run around car and was used four or five times a week on short trips .

Our system is similar to the NSW system - max 3000km per year, log book, club events only except trips for maintenance and max of 40km test drives so I am intending to do a 40km test run each week for the reasons mentioned by Tony.

The local Council of Motor Clubs had been in long negotiations with the ACT government to bring in a 90 day system similar to Vic. The public service here are not supportive of historic rego and even though negotiations had been going on for years little headway had been made but we had not be given a No. Then a few months before the last ACT election a frustrated club member wrote a quite abusive letter to the ACT Chief Minister on the subject and we got an answer within two weeks - a resounding No - using political reasoning such as if you can afford to own more than one car you can afford full rego or go on Historic rego.

So for us in the ACT we are unlikely to get anything like the Vic system for a long time - for me this system would be almost the perfect system but I can only hope it comes in someday. At least I do not have to do annual roadworthy inspections.

Garry


Im sorry they didnt sort it out in ACT Garry and shakedown or maintenance runs are an integral part of good maintenance. :angel:

For general knowledge the following pics show what the club permit looks like.

[frantic]

In this environmental age has anyone thought of doing a joint enviro/historical car rego so cars 25 or 30 years plus get a discounted rego regardless of use as its far more environmentally friendly to maintain an old car ( regardless of fuel use differences) than scrap it and produce a replacement every 5-10 years?
This would open it up further as a person who only drives 20-50 k's a week could justify maintaining an older car without the club restrictions of limited use or number of days.

[tony66_au]

I think that Club rego in Vic has a number of advantages including a yearly inspection for renewal.

Unlike NSW once a car is on full rego in Vic it isnt ever inspected unless it changes owners.

However a condition of club permit renewal is scrutiny and Club secretary signature on the papers so you could argue that Club cars get inspected yearly making them more roadworthy.

[123rover50]

It will be interesting late next year when Qld does away with rego labels,as if one is in an area with little highway policing I can see the system being rorted particular by vehicles with personalised plates.

Our Club cars have personalised plates but I thought that with the plate recognition cameras that are around now they will still know if the car is full rego or club rego.
I think the Qld system is good especially with our SlOw club allowing us to post up our own trips and other members can join in or not.
No time limit and we can tour Oz if we want:D
Keith

[isuzurover]

In this environmental age has anyone thought of doing a joint enviro/historical car rego so cars 25 or 30 years plus get a discounted rego regardless of use as its far more environmentally friendly to maintain an old car ( regardless of fuel use differences) than scrap it and produce a replacement every 5-10 years?

...

Sorry you are incorrect.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/2026757-post21.html

[101 Ron]

In this environmental age has anyone thought of doing a joint enviro/historical car rego so cars 25 or 30 years plus get a discounted rego regardless of use as its far more environmentally friendly to maintain an old car ( regardless of fuel use differences) than scrap it and produce a replacement every 5-10 years?
This would open it up further as a person who only drives 20-50 k's a week could justify maintaining an older car without the club restrictions of limited use or number of days.

Remember a few years back the fedral govt is going to give us money to scrap our old cars.........all pushed though by the greens.

[101 Ron]

In this environmental age has anyone thought of doing a joint enviro/historical car rego so cars 25 or 30 years plus get a discounted rego regardless of use as its far more environmentally friendly to maintain an old car ( regardless of fuel use differences) than scrap it and produce a replacement every 5-10 years?
This would open it up further as a person who only drives 20-50 k's a week could justify maintaining an older car without the club restrictions of limited use or number of days.

As for the emissions on older cars it is not straight forward and many different answers can be had.
Energy and emissions of making a car, plus the emissions of making the energy to produce the car must be looked at .
Type of usage, expected life of the vehicle and the type of fuel used.
Expected road surfaces the vehicle will be running on would need to be taken into account.
Emissions to transport a new vehicle to the dealership etc.........no simple answer.
How is vehicle is made, say in a third world country or a German robotic factory with a Nuclear energy power source etc is a big factor.
Transport and manufacture of replacement parts, servicing needs, durability of the design of the vehicle.
No simple answer and depending if all the figures are added up or left out you will get different answers.
I think a old single cylinder Wolsey overhead valve was tested awhile back and was found to run extremely clean, but a old vehicle with a T shape cylinder head could be a different story..........design is another factor.
Ron

[frantic]

Sorry you are incorrect.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/2026757-post21.html

Actually according to Toyota I am correct.;) but they would never fudge stats and figures to sell a few more cars would they?
Buy a New Car or Keep the Old: Which is Better for the Environment? (http://environment.about.com/od/environmentfriendlyautos/a/new_old_cars.htm)

Manufacturing a car creates as much carbon as driving it | Environment | theguardian.com (http://www.theguardian.com/environment/green-living-blog/2010/sep/23/carbon-footprint-new-car)
http://environmentalresearchweb.org/cws/article/news/39408

Now do a model to model comparison lets run a crummydore from 79 for 35 years compared to scrapping it every 10-12.
So if you scrap a car every 10 that is between 17-28%(63% according to one source!) extra emissions to build a new crummydore that you have to save over that vehicles life to justify building the next one. VB 79 com was getting 9-12 country city and weighed 1200-1400kgs the new commodore uses 7-12 country city and weighs 1700-1866 kgs:eek:.
So on the freeway its 20% more economical but having used identical fuel around town and around 40% more raw materials to make we don't need a 162 page uni blurb to tell us the outcome.
Lets do the same for the world biggest selling car C-rolla: 1979 6.5/100k's country and 9.1 city, weight 875kg's New corolla is 6.1 country and 9.7 city with a weight of 1270-1325:eek:
Again same outcome, worse in the city and almost 50% more raw materials used!
Why am I highlighting the raw materials, if there is a roughly set rate for raw materials to finished product emissions(extraction, conversion, tooling, cutting shaping etc.) and you use 40-50% more, it corresponds that emissions will increase by that amount. So for every 2 corollas made today you could have made 3 with the same raw materials and emissions in 1979.

1979 Toyota Corolla 1300 fuel economy review (since middle 1979 for Europe ) (http://www.automobile-catalog.com/economy/1979/31880/toyota_corolla_1300.html)
Toyota Corolla News and Reviews | Find All the Toyota Corolla Range on Drive (http://www.drive.com.au/new-car-showroom/toyota/corolla)

The car buyback was a 100% stimulus drive that the greens got suckered into.
If you really want to throw a spanner in the works what happens when you re-motor the classic 30+ year old car with a new motor and emissions gear? 150-250kg of new motor, far better emissions and reduced consumption but no need for the other ton+ of bling, factory re-tooling, transport, mining etc

[isuzurover]

Actually according to Toyota I am correct.;) but they would never fudge stats and figures to sell a few more cars would they?
Buy a New Car or Keep the Old: Which is Better for the Environment? (http://environment.about.com/od/environmentfriendlyautos/a/new_old_cars.htm)

Manufacturing a car creates as much carbon as driving it | Environment | theguardian.com (http://www.theguardian.com/environment/green-living-blog/2010/sep/23/carbon-footprint-new-car)
Calculating the real carbon footprint of vehicles - environmentalresearchweb (http://environmentalresearchweb.org/cws/article/news/39408)

Now do a model to model comparison lets run a crummydore from 79 for 35 years compared to scrapping it every 10-12.
So if you scrap a car every 10 that is between 17-28%(63% according to one source!) extra emissions to build a new crummydore that you have to save over that vehicles life to justify building the next one. VB 79 com was getting 9-12 country city and weighed 1200-1400kgs the new commodore uses 7-12 country city and weighs 1700-1866 kgs:eek:.
So on the freeway its 20% more economical but having used identical fuel around town and around 40% more raw materials to make we don't need a 162 page uni blurb to tell us the outcome.
Lets do the same for the world biggest selling car C-rolla: 1979 6.5/100k's country and 9.1 city, weight 875kg's New corolla is 6.1 country and 9.7 city with a weight of 1270-1325:eek:
Again same outcome, worse in the city and almost 50% more raw materials used!
Why am I highlighting the raw materials, if there is a roughly set rate for raw materials to finished product emissions(extraction, conversion, tooling, cutting shaping etc.) and you use 40-50% more, it corresponds that emissions will increase by that amount. So for every 2 corollas made today you could have made 3 with the same raw materials and emissions in 1979.

1979 Toyota Corolla 1300 fuel economy review (since middle 1979 for Europe ) (http://www.automobile-catalog.com/economy/1979/31880/toyota_corolla_1300.html)
Toyota Corolla News and Reviews | Find All the Toyota Corolla Range on Drive (http://www.drive.com.au/new-car-showroom/toyota/corolla)

The car buyback was a 100% stimulus drive that the greens got suckered into.
If you really want to throw a spanner in the works what happens when you re-motor the classic 30+ year old car with a new motor and emissions gear? 150-250kg of new motor, far better emissions and reduced consumption but no need for the other ton+ of bling, factory re-tooling, transport, mining etc

Sorry, you are still misunderstanding. It is not just about energy and fuel consumption, the GHWP of the additional pollutants (e.g. VOCs) emitted by older cars is what makes the difference.

I posted a PhD thesis, and you give me few dodgy web links... :D

[frantic]

Sorry, you are still misunderstanding. It is not just about energy and fuel consumption, the GHWP of the additional pollutants (e.g. VOCs) emitted by older cars is what makes the difference.

I posted a PhD thesis, and you give me few dodgy web links... :D
the text in that second article was from a published book . Look up their sources v yours ;)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1846688914/ref=mw_dp_mdsc'dsc=1
And guess who else mentions/uses the Toyota 2004 study the IPCC but as you said Toyota and the IPCC would know far less about building a car than a uni student. :twisted:
5.3.1.4 Well-to-wheels analysis of technical mitigation options - AR4 WGIII Chapter 5: Transport and its infrastructure (http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg3/en/ch5s5-3-1-4.html)

And I think this is the Toyota study but hard to open On my phone :https://www.google.com.au/url'sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=bIiHUpbrD8-ZiQf7nIHwAg&url=http://www.mizuho-ir.co.jp/english/knowledge/report/pdf/wtwghg041130.pdf&cd=13&ved=0CC0QFjACOAo&usg=AFQjCNHAV7_YY2wRJm0VBCM0zPW2z-xziQ

[JDNSW]

The problem with getting an answer to which is "right" is that any study has to make so many assumptions that by choosing quite reasonable assumptions you can get pretty much any answer you want to. Just as a simple example, the emissions in producing a tonne of steel will depend significantly on how much of the input is recycled scrap, how much is newly mined and what source of energy was used for the processing. This becomes even more important if you take a tonne of aluminium. You have to input numbers for these, but whatever numbers you use, there are others that could be equally valid. Do you look at the numbers for a particular model from a particular factory at a particular time? Or do you take averages? In almost every case, a mixture will be used, whatever figures the author can get hold of, often where he/she can get more than one, they pick the one that will tend towards the desired answer! (And usually there are assumptions, particularly about usage, that will be wildly inaccurate for any specific example.)

John

[tony66_au]

What I want to know is why members of a Four wheel drive community are subscribing to Climate science claptrap..........

[frantic]

What I want to know is why members of a Four wheel drive community are subscribing to Climate science claptrap..........
It's about accepting the reality of the situation, that majority of politics have subscribed or give lip service to climate change(long after science told them) BUT that many of the "solutions" in reality do little or nothing to help the environment that they say needs help.

[33chinacars]

This thread's got way off topic

[101RRS]

This thread's got way off topic

Sounds pretty normal to me :D

[MR LR]

Climate change is a natural thing, blah blah blah and Priuses are still gay (like Freelanders), next tangent please :twisted:

[isuzurover]

The problem with getting an answer to which is "right" is that any study has to make so many assumptions that by choosing quite reasonable assumptions you can get pretty much any answer you want to. Just as a simple example, the emissions in producing a tonne of steel will depend significantly on how much of the input is recycled scrap, how much is newly mined and what source of energy was used for the processing. This becomes even more important if you take a tonne of aluminium. You have to input numbers for these, but whatever numbers you use, there are others that could be equally valid. Do you look at the numbers for a particular model from a particular factory at a particular time? Or do you take averages? In almost every case, a mixture will be used, whatever figures the author can get hold of, often where he/she can get more than one, they pick the one that will tend towards the desired answer! (And usually there are assumptions, particularly about usage, that will be wildly inaccurate for any specific example.)

John

That is why any reputable study looks at state or national averages. Of course someone who has a perfectly maintained and tuned older vehicle will be at one end of the spectrum, etc...

I hope you are not trying to suggest that any reputable scientist would do what you suggest (bolded part).

[Chucaro]

This thread's got way off topic

Tell me all bout it! I just for the first time read the last few pages looking for the word tractor :D

[frantic]

they pick the one that will tend towards the desired answer

That is why any reputable study looks at state or national averages. Of course someone who has a perfectly maintained and tuned older vehicle will be at one end of the spectrum, etc...

I hope you are not trying to suggest that any reputable scientist would do what you suggest (bolded part).

No, no, no ,never would a reputable scientist on the payroll of a big carmaker would do that ever:D so Toyotas 28% is perfectly accurate, being such a large car maker they would never fudge or skew figures to make purchasing a new corolla or camry better for the environment than maintaining an older one:twisted: .
Back on topic personally I believe it should be a modified version of the U.K's rego where cars over a certain age(25-30 years rolling over each year so currently cars built before 83 next year 84 etc) still need to pass a safety/roadworthy check but pay a discounted rego on both historical and enviro grounds.

[tony66_au]

I finally got Global warming to work for me, Took 8 tyre burnings though but now the temp has come up nicely to the high 20's im happy again.
Last tractor I had BTW (An old Inter allegedly 45 hp) was on Farm rego and id added headlights and indicators easily enough and when I fitted the ROPS (Roll over protection) I fitted 2 Amber Xenon strobe lights for slashing the naturestrip.
From memory Vic roads charges were $78 per year which were more a TAC/insurance cost than anything else.

You couldn't use Club permit as Permit cars can not be used to earn money or as a business related use (Not even dragging your stuff to a swap meet) and should you ever need insurance protection I think youd find the claim denied.

I know a bloke who ended up paying out of his own pocket when a shower of gravel from his Fergie/Slasher combo caused a few chips and a busted window on passing traffic and this occurs more than youd think.

[33chinacars]

Tell me all bout it! I just for the first time read the last few pages looking for the word tractor :D

Tractor WHAT Tractor :question::question::angel:

[tony66_au]

Tractor WHAT Tractor :question::question::angel:

We don need no steeenkin Tractor!

[gromit]

Talking of Global warming.....only a few years ago all the doomsayers & Greenies were blaming Global warming for the drought.
Now we have a de-sal plant in VIC that isn't needed (might be in the future I guess) and more rain than we know what to do with.

Everyone has gone quiet about the drought though........



Colin

PS: My mate is checking out tractor rego which is where this thread started.

[Chucaro]

.................................................. ..............
Everyone has gone quiet about the drought though........



Colin

PS: My mate is checking out tractor rego which is where this thread started.

Yes......tell that to the farmers in central Qld ;)
Then again, Qld is in another planet :p
More than 60 per cent of Queensland drought-declared
(http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2013/9/18/more-than-60-per-cent-of-queensland-droughtdeclared)

[tony66_au]

Colin, info you need is here Registering primary producer vehicles : VicRoads (http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Registration/WhatHasToBeRegistered/OtherVehiclesvesselsAndRegistrationIssues/RegisteringPrimaryProducerVehicles.htm)

Costs are here Vehicle registration fees : VicRoads (http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Registration/FeesFormsAndFAQs/Fees/VehicleRegistrationFees.htm)

[gromit]

Colin, info you need is here Registering primary producer vehicles : VicRoads (http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Registration/WhatHasToBeRegistered/OtherVehiclesvesselsAndRegistrationIssues/RegisteringPrimaryProducerVehicles.htm)

Costs are here Vehicle registration fees : VicRoads (http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Registration/FeesFormsAndFAQs/Fees/VehicleRegistrationFees.htm)


My mate isn't strictly speaking a 'primary producer', just a private individual on 13 acres and using a Grey fergie & slasher to cut the nature strip out the front of his property.
I guess he can try VicRoads and see what they say.


Colin

[DoubleChevron]

My mate isn't strictly speaking a 'primary producer', just a private individual on 13 acres and using a Grey fergie & slasher to cut the nature strip out the front of his property.
I guess he can try VicRoads and see what they say.


Colin

The best thing to do is ring Vicroads and see what they say. If you don't like the answer, hang up and ring again... the next person is sure to tell you something completely different :Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

About the only thing I haven't had problems with at Vicroads is club permit cars. The liability is off them and onto the club, so they just process the forms. Gee's I've had some issues with them in the past though :(

There has to be "something" to cover you mowing your nature strip. I was cutting mine last night and thought about this thread when the ride-on was throwing plenty of grass/stones ( :eek: ) at a car as it drove past. I'm sure if you tractor is illegal, so is a ride on mower :confused:

seeya,
Shane L.