4WD Action/Roo Systems acquires a D4... :(

[adzee]

So this video is of Roothy introducing the D4 purchase, but what concerns me is how it's going to be abused by them. Land rover always prefer as slow as possible and as fast as necessary which is the complete opposite to 4Wd Action.

Wish the D4 some luck I guess... The main thing is it's been recognised as a decent 4wd, and showing the 4wd community another marque.

Thoughts?


http://youtu.be/A-E8dMsm37o

[SBD4]

We'll Have to see what they do - the Landies can take a hammering too:

www.aulro.com/afvb/armchair-warriors/81952-land-rover-videos-post1655449.html

[Nick S]

Roothy reminds me of one of the Dodgey Brothers that used to be on TV years ago - what a moron!

[TerryO]

He used to write for Two Wheels in the 80's, his monthly columns were often way out there in the wonder zone.

[ytt105]

Could mean there will be another option on front bars other than TJM, ARB and ECB only.

Will be interesting to see how he raises it!

[Will Wallace]

Will be interesting to see how he raises it![/QUOTE]

Aahahahaha.

GOE rods?

[ak]

Didn't these same clowns 4wd monthly? Take a D3 when they first came out to the Cape drove it through the first deep water crossing they could find got all the electrics wet it had to be flat-bedded home and them claimed the new D3 is great just don't take it too far off road in remote places take a new Land cruiser instead. Sounds like they are out to do the same with the D4 as they did with the D3 back in 2005.

[FeatherWeightDriver]

Will be interesting to see how he raises it!

Portals? :eek::angel:

[cripesamighty]

Please God, someone give them the GOE website for some driving tips before they drive it like a Toyota and then wonder why it won't work as advertised.....

[Fatso]

These 4x4 media wizards are all guts and glory with a full camera crew and recovery team behind em :cool:.

[isuzurover]

I am surprised... We are 10 posts in and a new discussion on chipping hasn't been started :D

[Reads90]

Rothy lives near me.

You always know it's him as you can see the feet of the Toyota owners hanging out his arse as he walks along

[Silenceisgolden]

I subscribed to this rag once - every time I saw an article where I had good knowledge, they were way off the mark. It was therefore impossible to trust anything at all in their mag.
I too remember Rooth from the Two Wheels days....... having four wheels hasn't raised his IQ or his integrity.
The good news is that the sort of folk who read his mag will almost certainly not buy a D4 after they destroy this one, thus saving D4's from abusive and unintelligent driving.

[gghaggis]

Please God, someone give them the GOE website for some driving tips before they drive it like a Toyota and then wonder why it won't work as advertised.....

I have actually talked to them before about doing a course - may have to try again, with an attendant Cruiser to get bogged in :wasntme:

Cheers,

Gordon

[Chops]

Glenno will be right,,, he's finally about to sit his arse in a good car and then he'll wonder why he's put up with **** for so long. :cool:
He probably wont have to touch it to get to where he goes now with a worked car,, :D

Here's hoping he learns how to drive it before he breaks it :eek:

[komaterpillar]

Here's hoping he learns how to drive it before he breaks it :eek:

I don't understand people flogging cars the way this mob does when so far from home, I know sometimes it's fun to give our fourbies a bit of a thrash from time to time but not halfway up the cape or in the middle of the simmo, then break something and have to be recovered by tilt tray and cut the trip short, couldn't think of anything worse.

As said in previous posts, lets hope they do the right thing by the D4 or else it will just give the Datsun and Toymota bogan herd more fuel for the fire.

[cripesamighty]

Gordon, I wish you luck. It would be great if some of these journo's could even do your classroom component (given they may have time constraints), let alone take them offroad and show them how to use these vehicles properly. At least then they would have some semblance of a clue of what they are reviewing and how to get the most out of these vehicles! Maybe you can offer them a discounted group journo rate next time you are over on the East coast. Ha ha

At the moment when I read the current crop of Australian offroad magazines, I regularly roll my eyes as they make the same stupid factual errors. That's not just for Land Rovers either. Unfortunately these errors (or bias) don't lend any credence to a lot of their conclusions and it's often these not quite informed articles that sway people's car choices. It's the reason sadly, that I stopped buying Australian offroad magazines.

I figure if you want to review a vehicle, at least make a bit of an effort to understand how to drive it properly. This is especially true of the later generation of Land Rover products which are at least a generation ahead in technology, so are NOT driven at all like Toyotas and Nissans or ever need to be. But then I guess there are lots of pressures on editors and journos nowadays to sell magazines so perhaps I am being a bit harsh......
Oh well, we may not always get the favourable reviews we like, but we can always hope their standards of journalism improve! :D

[Marmoset]

I don't understand people flogging cars the way this mob does when so far from home, I know sometimes it's fun to give our fourbies a bit of a thrash from time to time but not halfway up the cape or in the middle of the simmo, then break something and have to be recovered by tilt tray and cut the trip short, couldn't think of anything worse.
.


I never understand that either. I don't get out off the beaten track much in mine, but if I did, I'd apply the same logic I use when mountain biking/hiking - you get yourself out there, it's your responsibility to minimise the risks to get yourself back.

I did find that the video left me with a compulsion to slap him and tell him to stop talking nonsense :angel:

[discotwinturbo]

Please God, someone give them the GOE website for some driving tips before they drive it like a Toyota and then wonder why it won't work as advertised.....

I have already posted for Glenno to do so.

Brett

[Leroy_Riding]

saw the stock D4 at roo systems when i picked my swag up a while back.

asked them if they were going to start doing land rover parts, the reply was along the lines of "the mechanics wont touch them, they are no good, no one wants to but we have to"
(the actual conversation was even more negative to land rover, until i mentioned owning a defender, payed my money and walked out.)

took my tent and left. wouldnt buy a $100 bill off them for $5 after talking to the people there, swag is good for the money though. (same as southern cross, same Chinese factory i assume)

chances are they will trash the poor thing, give it a bad wrap and then go tear up all the tracks like the pack of morons they are, only guy I like on the 4wdAction stuff is Graham Cahill, and even he is a bit of a hilbilly.

[Kevin B]

Agreed, at least Graham Cahill has more of an appreciation he will turn back on a bad track whereas counterpart keeps on going tearing it up.

1993 Discovery 1 3.5l
2" Lift, Cranked HD Trailing Arms
31" Maxxis Mudders
Tons of Radios, Tons of Spotties

[RVR110]

They are just trying to appeal to an additional market segment (Disco owners), same as earlier when they bought a Patrol to appeal to Nissan owners. They'll probably buy a Mitsubishi or a Ranger next.

[Series3 GT]

I'm keen to see how far they can push it, you don't see many D4's kitted out with bars and bigger tyres plus all the other gear they chuck on. Hopefully it holds up and shows all the 200 series owners that they just bought the wrong vehicle:D

[R Miller]

They are just trying to appeal to an additional market segment (Disco owners), same as earlier when they bought a Patrol to appeal to Nissan owners. They'll probably buy a Mitsubishi or a Ranger next.


I hope they get a Great Wall soon, now that's a work of art....

[FeatherWeightDriver]

They are just trying to appeal to an additional market segment (Disco owners), same as earlier when they bought a Patrol to appeal to Nissan owners. They'll probably buy a Mitsubishi or a Ranger next.

Not enough of these followers obviously :censored: but either way I hope this is photoshopped!

http://www.4wdtv.com.au/images/Yr_Rigs/rigs_lrg/Rigs_417.jpg

PS: that's from the website of another more "conservative" 4wd tv show, not 4wd action

[plaven]

Wow... how funny are the precious land rover owners...

I personally think this is awesome. I'm tired of seeing just the Landcruisers and Patrols.

Big deal if they break it. On one of their recent videos and issues they talked about the alternator failing on Glen's 200 Series and said nothing complimentary about the design/location of it. Not to mention their disappointment with it simply failing, twice on the same outing.

What's to be concerned about, I don't think I've read an issue or chuckled at something that broke on a 4wd.

I quite like watching their videos, seeing places I wouldn't have the guts to go myself - hell I'd have to have my land rover out of the work shop long enough to actually get out past the city limits... oh I see why the uproar now... ;)

Seriously though... Land Rover keeps winning 4wd of the year... these guys actually taking it off road won't change anyone's perception if it fails for all the 'dumb reasons', but should it not fail, that will change perceptions.

Personally I'm over all the back handed "you poor thing" comments when I admit to buying a D2. Bring on the D4 in the hands of these guys I say.

And on a final note... I like the effort John Rooth is putting into keeping tracks and parks open.

I'm not seeing a bunch of yahoos ripping up tracks, I see a bunch of guys driving tracks and parts of this country I'll never see. I see people confident in their skills and their 4wds and their bush mechanic skills to get in and out.

Actually, Jamie of JTS touring drives a Defender... so there's been a Land Rover in the mix for a while now.

[Pilbara130]

Good on you 4wd action can't wait to see how it performs.
Not sure why every one has there nickers in a knot .
Dan

[AnD3rew]

I've heard lots of people make these kinds of comments about these guys here for ages but never seen any of the videos, but some one gave me a few recently and I watched them last weekend and I have yo say it wasn't nearly as bad as I expected. Roothy is a bit of a dick but overall I thought they were generally responsible despite taking on some pretty crazy tracks.

The worst I saw them do was go through a mud hole and get stuck and make quite a mess of it when there was clearly a way around it which they ended up taking, and there was one bit where they had a vehicle which was leaning over and a guy on the high side hanging on to keep it upright and Roothy was standing holding a winch controller on the low side which was a but stoopid. And anyone who wears thongs while doing that stuff is a fool.

But overall not too bad.

As others have said hope they take the time to learn how to drive the D4 properly and it should be awesome.

[adzee]

My concern for them having the D4 and why I shared the video is that they won't treat it with the respect such a vehicle demands.

The 200 got hammered and driven in a way that didn't allow it to perform comfortably, and neither will the D4.

One thing I learnt when using my D3 was that slow and steady is best. It doesn't like fast and hard, this is what is going to reflect poorly on the marque.

The only benefit is that maybe third party manufacturers might offer better and more add ons.

[Meccles]

I reckon it is good to see. JLR keep telling us how they have been working on the QA/QC. We shouldn't have to "baby" the cars, and if these guys treat them harshly, and it works, great! :) Like most I also get the "yeah great on road but if you really were serious why didn't I stick with Toynissamitisbushi" Gets tiresome. Saw a RRC on the ferry to Moreton. Last car on, early 4 door. Guy gets out and spends the trip working under car. All Jap car drivers walk away in disgust with comment "typical LR". Turns out car lives on Moreton. Is the daily driver over there. Gearbox center diff has jammed, and given where it is and what it is used for, this is a good thing. Car needs a new muffler, so to get it to mainland, guy drops the rear tailshaft, drives to mainland as front two wheel drive car. Then re fits tail shaft on way back. A clever and cheap solution. And was he happy with his choice of permanent beach car? You bet. But to casual observer, it put LR in bad light and reinforced perceptions. So something like this is a good thing.

[Gribbsmy13]

The main thing I will be interested in is if they stick to 19" or 20" tyres, or revert to the 18" that Gordon sells. It will rewrite the 4wd ideal if they can do what they do and stick to standard rims.

Also, I wonder if the got the ediff, as every other 4wd the crop systems guy owns has dual lockers.... Maybe the super tech lr might sip prise them.

Last of all, at least we might get a decent exhaust option out of it, at the moment it's full custom or nothing.

[BMKal]

saw the stock D4 at roo systems when i picked my swag up a while back.

asked them if they were going to start doing land rover parts, the reply was along the lines of "the mechanics wont touch them, they are no good, no one wants to but we have to"
(the actual conversation was even more negative to land rover, until i mentioned owning a defender, payed my money and walked out.)

took my tent and left. wouldnt buy a $100 bill off them for $5 after talking to the people there, swag is good for the money though. (same as southern cross, same Chinese factory i assume)


I'll agree with you that their swag is good value for the money asked - but I can assure you that they are nothing at all like the Southern Cross. Look the same, especially in the advertising photos - but in the flesh they are chalk and cheese.

I recently looked at both - and bought the Southern Cross. Cost a lot more, but the canvas quality alone convinced me that it was worth it. The Southern Cross is made in Australia from Australian canvas - nothing at all like the lightweight fabric in any of the Chinese made products. ;)

Have to admit that the Southern Cross is a heavy and bulky bit of kit though, compared with the Chinese made lightweights ................

[plaven]

For those on facebook, the read through the comments is fairly positive to the new rig:

https://www.facebook.com/Roothy4WD/posts/620006824712789

[Duke4]

I think this is quite a smart move for Roo Systems, if they do this right it could increase their sales into a virtually untapped market of cashed up D4 owners looking to outfit their rigs. Make some good accessories and prove them in the field.

As others have said I too like the locations 4wd action go to, there are some questionable decisions made on some tracks and they seem to cater more towards the yobbo audience. But hey they are finally bringing some class to the show, what next a Range Rover maybe?

[RVR110]

For those on facebook, the read through the comments is fairly positive to the new rig:

https://www.facebook.com/Roothy4WD/posts/6200068247127894WDA really attract the intelligentsia, don't they?

[Stacks]

I wonder if they've decided on the disco because ARB has just shown us some love. Long travel suspension for the deefer, front n rear airlockers for the disco 3/4 and top 10 locations in Africa featuring only land rovers. Probably the only arb mag I've actually read through.

[rangietragic]

Used to buy 4wd Action for quite a while,then it got boring.You can only see so many nissotas with lift kits and winches.Then i got sick of roothy constantly bagging landrovers,even though he owns one!Some of the places they go are good.Also i found some of their testing to be a bit one sided regarding products.Jamies defender gets a bit of grudging praise from roothy every now and then.They should have a d4 if only because of the awards its won,but i agree they will break it and say "not as good as a cruiser though".I think roothy thinks 4wds peaked with the fj 40.

[scarry]

For those on facebook, the read through the comments is fairly positive to the new rig:

https://www.facebook.com/Roothy4WD/posts/620006824712789


There is actually a comment from someone at LRA on that facebook site.Maybe they are keeping an eye on things?

I wonder if they have a look on here as well......:o

[steane]

This is good I think. Jamie has been giving it pretty hard to his two 130s for a while now, so will be good to see what happens to a D4 when it is treated a bit rough. If it breaks continously then its probably fair to say the Cruiser is stronger. If it doesn't and shows them all up a bit then it might change some attitudes.

Be good to see if it really deserves all of the awards. I will be cheering it on.:D

Will be interesting to see how long they run it for before going back to their precious Toyotas.:p

[Disco Muppet]

Funny, far more positive comments than I expected, although there's still the odd one or two moron with their cranium inserted so far up their rectum that they get to eat things twice.
It's an HSE so it would have the E-locker wouldn't it?

[sheerluck]

Funny, far more positive comments than I expected, although there's still the odd one or two moron with their cranium inserted so far up their rectum that they get to eat things twice.
It's an HSE so it would have the E-locker wouldn't it?

Trim level doesn't matter as far as the e-diff is concerned. It's an option for all I believe.

[bowie]

hopefully when Gleno see just how capable the D4 is he'll come up with some nice extras. as long as they are well built.

[MR LR]

Oooh this is a precious section of the forum!

Have you guys ever heard of the camel trophy? (sarc) It was a hardcore event, from when Land Rovers were hardcore trucks (except 1998), look at how LR had these people driving them...!

Camel Trophy Land Rover Years - YouTube

Looks like they abused them more than 4WDA, I enjoy the DVD's, but the magazines are rubbish, they do go to some nice places (outside of the Northern Beaches) :twisted:

I hope everyone reads that how it was intended, I do know you drive Land Rovers differently to the Jap rivals ;)

[TerryO]

I couldn't help myself I had to have a couple of cheap shots at the Cruiser fraternity in that Facebook thread.

[MR LR]

I couldn't help myself I had to have a couple of cheap shots at the Cruiser fraternity in that Facebook thread.
They really are a pile of morons aren't they... I just had a read.

[discojools]

I buy 4WD Action sometimes and always wonder why I bother. They've also ruined Overlander (once a fine mag) since they've taken it over.
However I do like some of the videos and I don't mind Roothy.
It'll be interesting to see what happens with the D4. Is it an HSE?

[Disco Muppet]

I couldn't help myself I had to have a couple of cheap shots at the Cruiser fraternity in that Facebook thread.

It's only a cheap shot if it's not true :p

[ak]

Oooh this is a precious section of the forum!

Have you guys ever heard of the camel trophy? (sarc) It was a hardcore event, from when Land Rovers were hardcore trucks (except 1998), look at how LR had these people driving them...!

Camel Trophy Land Rover Years - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGWp8R-IqoE)

Looks like they abused them more than 4WDA, I enjoy the DVD's, but the magazines are rubbish, they do go to some nice places (outside of the Northern Beaches) :twisted:

I hope everyone reads that how it was intended, I do know you drive Land Rovers differently to the Jap rivals ;)

That was before land rover put all the high teck electrical stuff in Discovery's, try doing some of that in a D3 or D4 you will break it for sure. If 4wd action is going to drive even a little like that video the D4 won't last very long at all.

[~Rich~]

That was before land rover put all the high teck electrical stuff in Discovery's, try doing some of that in a D3 or D4 you will break it for sure. If 4wd action is going to drive even a little like that video the D4 won't last very long at all.

Neither would any current 4WD apart from the Defender.

[ak]

Neither would any current 4WD apart from the Defender.

Yep that's the great thing about Defender's if the day ever comes that LR stops making them will be a sad day indeed.

[MR LR]

What does everyone think is so **** weak about a D3/4? I can understand them having EAS issues, and trashing panels (what moron decided to put such huge slabs on the sides of it?), but I've never heard of an axle breaking, or even a wishbone getting ripped off (unless in a crash). Sure if you flog it into a huge puddle you'll get a whole heap of electrical gremlins, if it's over 700mm deep or it gets parked there... I can't see them having major mechanical issues though, all the issues seem to be stupid little things.

And yes I'm aware there is a huge difference between a D1 and a D4...

[Scouse]

What does everyone think is so **** weak about a D3/4? I can understand them having EAS issues, and trashing panels (what moron decided to put such huge slabs on the sides of it?), but I've never heard of an axle breaking, or even a wishbone getting ripped off (unless in a crash). Sure if you flog it into a huge puddle you'll get a whole heap of electrical gremlins, if it's over 700mm deep or it gets parked there... I can't see them having major mechanical issues though, all the issues seem to be stupid little things.

And yes I'm aware there is a huge difference between a D1 and a D4...Keep up young Will !!


CV failure here:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/186148-new-forum.html


Wishbone failure here:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/nsw-act-reports/184259-nsw-cells-tappin-tops-oct-18-20-ish.html


There you go - officially ****weak :).

[ak]

What does everyone think is so **** weak about a D3/4? I can understand them having EAS issues, and trashing panels (what moron decided to put such huge slabs on the sides of it?), but I've never heard of an axle breaking, or even a wishbone getting ripped off (unless in a crash). Sure if you flog it into a huge puddle you'll get a whole heap of electrical gremlins, if it's over 700mm deep or it gets parked there... I can't see them having major mechanical issues though, all the issues seem to be stupid little things.

And yes I'm aware there is a huge difference between a D1 and a D4...

For me it's just this simple, I'm not mechanically minded not one bit. So if I where going to the Cape I'd rather go in a Defender before I went in a D3 or D4. I know many D3's and D4's have gone to the Cape successfully before anyone jumps down my throat I didn't say that. Now I'm not trying to start a flame war. It's just that for me that's not mechanically minded I want to enjoy the trip not worry that the local mechanic in that remote area doesn't have the latest software upgrades to get me on my merry way again. It's just that simple for me. For you guys that can spin spanners and plug a laptop in with software updates and are mechanically minded I'm envious of you I just cannot do that.

Not being a smart ass either but as you say the difference between a D1 and D4 is poles apart.

[Scouse]

There is actually a comment from someone at LRA on that facebook site.Maybe they are keeping an eye on things?

I wonder if they have a look on here as well......:oI don't think he's a JLR representative judging by his FB page.

[TerryO]

In reality its not the D3/4's that, more often then not, can't go places, its the owners who don't want to risk damaging or wrecking their relatively new and expensive vehicles.

As D3's get older and become more affordable more and more of them will end up being used for what they were originally designed for and end up like mine with as many bumps, dents and scratches as your average Defender.

Now if I could just find a set of portals to fit a D3 and then fit 35's I'd be happy and Rich would be livid ...;)

[MR LR]

Keep up young Will !!


CV failure here:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/186148-new-forum.html


Wishbone failure here:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/nsw-act-reports/184259-nsw-cells-tappin-tops-oct-18-20-ish.html


There you go - officially ****weak :).
HAHA I guess they are **** weak then :twisted:

I wonder how they'd last if they were driven to the places D1's went before them...

[TerryO]

For me it's just this simple, I'm not mechanically minded not one bit. So if I where going to the Cape I'd rather go in a Defender before I went in a D3 or D4. I know many D3's and D4's have gone to the Cape successfully before anyone jumps down my throat I didn't say that. Now I'm not trying to start a flame war. It's just that for me that's not mechanically minded I want to enjoy the trip not worry that the local mechanic in that remote area doesn't have the latest software upgrades to get me on my merry way again. It's just that simple for me. For you guys that can spin spanners and plug a laptop in with software updates and are mechanically minded I'm envious of you I just cannot do that.

Not being a smart ass either but as you say the difference between a D1 and D4 is poles apart.


I would suggest that if your not mechanically minded then a D1 or even a Defender would pose as many challenges if your stuck up the Cape as a late model Disco would.

As for software updates etc, that is a general maintenance thing, if you don't get your vehicle serviced and checked before you go away then you get what you deserve, whether its a D3/4 or Defender.

D1's and most Defenders are now very old, vehicles don't become more reliable when the get older. From experience I trust my D3 to reliably get me more places and further than I do either my D1 or D2.

Plenty of people who have never owned one like to comment about late model Disco's being unreliable or incapable, I consider that just as daft and narrow minded as the Toymota brigade who rubbish all LR's.

In another words don't knock it till you try it.

[Duke4]

Have you ever heard the saying can't see the forest for the trees?

My opinion (may not carry very far but I'll give it anyway) is that the difference between a D3/D4 owner and the average 4wda follower is that the D3/D4 ownwer likes to go bush to see this beautiful country, they do it with respect for the land and their vehicle, we see the forest.
The 'others' go bush to see if they can traverse every track they come across with little regard to the track or their vehicle, can't see past the tree's.

There, my work is done.:angel:

[TerryO]

HAHA I guess they are **** weak then :twisted:

I wonder how they'd last if they were driven to the places D1's went before them...


More than likely pretty well, get a bog stock standard D1 and a bog stock D3/4 and take them off road and see which one is more capable.

I bet the D1 owners would get a terrible shock at how good the late model Disco is and the places it could go easy where they would struggle.

[Geedublya]

Trim level doesn't matter as far as the e-diff is concerned. It's an option for all I believe.

e-diff is standard on one version only the V8, on all others it is an option.

[MR LR]

More than likely pretty well, get a bog stock standard D1 and a bog stock D3/4 and take them off road and see which one is more capable.

I bet the D1 owners would get a terrible shock at how good the late model Disco is and the places it could go easy where they would struggle.
I completely agree with you, my comment was with regard to which one could take the most punishment.

[Redback]

I completely agree with you, my comment was with regard to which one could take the most punishment.

You obviously haven't seen the Land Rover test videos for the D3/4, go have a look at them, the LROC Sydney driver trainer has them.

No Jnr anymore, you 21 now??

Baz.

[ak]

I would suggest that if your not mechanically minded then a D1 or even a Defender would pose as many challenges if your stuck up the Cape as a late model Disco would.

As for software updates etc, that is a general maintenance thing, if you don't get your vehicle serviced and checked before you go away then you get what you deserve, whether its a D3/4 or Defender.

D1's and most Defenders are now very old, vehicles don't become more reliable when the get older. From experience I trust my D3 to reliably get me more places and further than I do either my D1 or D2.

Plenty of people who have never owned one like to comment about late model Disco's being unreliable or incapable, I consider that just as daft and narrow minded as the Toymota brigade who rubbish all LR's.

In another words don't knock it till you try it.

I knew when I made that post there was a chance that someone would get sensitive and get upset, however it was never my intention to offend anyone.

You can get as personal with the insults as you like by calling me daft and narrow minded something I'd never do to anyone I have not met on a internet board (making a judgement about someone you don't know in person in itself shows narrow mindedness) however your insults aside it's hard to argue the fact that it's tough to find a mechanic in a remote area like the Cape that has the skills to work on a truck like a D3 or D4. That was part of my point.

[gghaggis]

That was before land rover put all the high teck electrical stuff in Discovery's, try doing some of that in a D3 or D4 you will break it for sure. If 4wd action is going to drive even a little like that video the D4 won't last very long at all.

Really? So no one's ever done anything like that in a D3 ..... :angel:

Cheers,

Gordon

[gghaggis]

Mechanically, a stock D3 or D4 drivetrain is stronger than in any previous LR product. The traditional Achilles heel of LR's has always been the axle/CV strengths, that was until the D3.

Are they as strong as a GU Patrol? Possibly not, but closer than any other LR product, and the electronic trickery of the TR systems reduces the stress on the mechanical components, as opposed to most add-on aftermarket traction aids that increases it.

Most electrical issues can be sorted with a $350 diagnostics box and a few sub-$100 spares. And if you can plug a mouse into a computer, you can use a diagnostic box - it's a myth that you require a degree in Computer Science.

Cheers,

Gordon

[SBD4]

Really? So no one's every done anything like that in a D3 ..... :angel:

Cheers,

Gordon

nope, no-one, especially not you Gordon :D

[gossamer]

Wow :o this one thread has probably done more damage to the reputation of Disco D3/D4 than 4wd action ever will. To have a bunch of owner show such little faith in their vehicle makes me wonder why I brought one.

[TerryO]

I knew when I made that post there was a chance that someone would get sensitive and get upset, however it was never my intention to offend anyone.

You can get as personal with the insults as you like by calling me daft and narrow minded something I'd never do to anyone I have not met on a internet board (making a judgement about someone you don't know in person in itself shows narrow mindedness) however your insults aside it's hard to argue the fact that it's tough to find a mechanic in a remote area like the Cape that has the skills to work on a truck like a D3 or D4. That was part of my point.


Actually I wasn't saying you were daft or trying to insult you. I had moved on from dealing with your comment and I was generalising about often aired opinions from people who have no experience with late model Disco's.

In this instance you have taken my open ended comments and decided you fell into that category and taken offence.

Few D3/4 owners ever get into these debates about the capabilities of their vehicles of choice and I reckon thats because they are happy knowing the truth and don't give a stuff what others who have never owned one think.

[Redback]

Wow :o this one thread has probably done more damage to the reputation of Disco D3/D4 than 4wd action ever will. To have a bunch of owner show such little faith in their vehicle makes me wonder why I brought one.

Yes and that ****s more than any Cruiser or Nissan driver will.

Before you bag the off road toughness of the vehicle you drive, take it off road, not down to the local woolies or school or average gravel road and as for you other so called Land Rover enthusiast, what is the matter with you:spudnikwhat:

Go away

Baz.

[TerryO]

Wow :o this one thread has probably done more damage to the reputation of Disco D3/D4 than 4wd action ever will. To have a bunch of owner show such little faith in their vehicle makes me wonder why I brought one.


I wouldn't worry about it unless the comments were being made by D3/4 owners, however from what I can see the majority, if not all, of the knockers own Defenders, early Disco's or P38's and have never owned or are likely to own a late model Disco.

[LowRanger]

All I can say it bring em on:D

[TerryO]

All I can say it bring em on:D


Which one Wayne? ...Latte or a flat white ....:p

[Redback]

Which one Wayne? ...Latte or flat whiltes ....:p

No Terry it's Hibiscus tea for our Defender boys:cool:

[TerryO]

I thought you only drank Hibiscus tea to get rid of constipation?

Does this mean the Defender boys are all full of ****? ....:eek:

[SBD4]

Wow :o this one thread has probably done more damage to the reputation of Disco D3/D4 than 4wd action ever will. To have a bunch of owner show such little faith in their vehicle makes me wonder why I brought one.
I don't think so, a quick search of this forum or youtube with give many examples proving the D3/D4 can handle plenty.

I posted a reference to Gordons(gghaggis') efforts to destroy his D3 while using it in competitions etc. How did it end up? Well, my understanding is that it performed extremely well against all the modified jap vehicles over a number of years. What happened to it? destroyed? fell apart? sold for scrap? nope! Stolen (if I remember correctly) - obviously a highly desirable vehicle despite to the rough treatment he dished out to it.

Gordon will be along to elaborate or correct if I have it wrong...

[Rich84]

....Are they as strong as a GU Patrol? Possibly not, but closer than any other LR product....


Cheers,

Gordon

Even if the GU were stronger, I suppose we must assume it hasn't spun a bearing before it gets to the trail...

[LowRanger]

I thought you only drank Hibiscus tea to get rid of constipation?

Does this mean the Defender boys are all full of ****? ....:eek:

Actually it is real tea:D and it is because I am sick of people talking ****.It is easy to talk the talk and walk the walk....different matter when it comes to doing something about it though ;)

[gghaggis]

Wow :o this one thread has probably done more damage to the reputation of Disco D3/D4 than 4wd action ever will. To have a bunch of owner show such little faith in their vehicle makes me wonder why I brought one.

To restore your faith, have a look on our YouTube video channel (search for disco4x4au)

Cheers,

Gordon

[rick130]

Which one Wayne? ...Latte or a flat white ....:p








No Terry it's Hibiscus tea for our Defender boys:cool:

French Earl Grey please! :D

[~Rich~]

This has certainly become a HOT topic. :wasntme:

[MR LR]

You obviously haven't seen the Land Rover test videos for the D3/4, go have a look at them, the LROC Sydney driver trainer has them.

No Jnr anymore, you 21 now??

Baz.
I'll have to have a look some day.

I'd pick a D1 before a D3 to race in KOH, I think you'd rip the wheels off anything with stock independant suspension, I haven't managed to trash an axle or CV yet, however I don't flog my car off road. I think a D3 would have a few broken bits if it had been through some of the stuff my D1 and RRC got taken though though. Someone made the comment that you'd break a D3/4 if you drove it like they did in Camel Trophy, I agree with that.

Someone called me junior, which I didn't like... not 21 yet, I am over 18 though :twisted: so I'm an adult :p

Cheers
Will

[101RRS]

Most of the vehicles the mag uses have "protection" and appropriate mods for the type of 4wding they do. For their usual Japper vehicles, most of this gear is available readily at ARB and their other usual sources.

Now as we know - with the exception of a few bits and pieces they are not going the good D4 stuff from ARB etc.

To fully equip the D4 are they going to put on 18" rims, underbody protection, rods or LLAMs, emergency inflation kits etc etc etc if it is not available from the usual ARB type sources rather than places like GOE. I suspect not but I am hopeful.

I think while there will be praise for the vehicle, I suspect we will hear the usuals, cannot get decent tyres, complaints about it flopping down at 50kph, let alone the dash indications because of the quirky interlinked computer systems etc. Wait into the suspension has a hissy fit because the stop light has flown - we will be all be hearing about it.

I think that all we can do is watch and read the reports etc and set the record straight and provide advice when appropriate.

Garry

[TerryO]

Someone made the comment that you'd break a D3/4 if you drove it like they did in Camel Trophy, I agree with that.

Someone called me junior, which I didn't like... not 21 yet, I am over 18 though :twisted: so I'm an adult :p

Cheers
Will


A wise man knows how to tell the difference between fact and opinion.

[gghaggis]

I think a D3 would have a few broken bits if it had been through some of the stuff my D1 and RRC got taken though though. Someone made the comment that you'd break a D3/4 if you drove it like they did in Camel Trophy, I agree with that.


Rubbish

[rb30gtr]

I'll be watching the D4 review in anticipation! I'm confident the D4 will take a flogging and keep going strong, and change a huge amount of opinions along the way.

I am as bogan as bogan comes, and I love my D3, all of my 4x4 mates have completely changed their opinions and quick smart. Especially considering I was keeping up in full standard setup and they are all modified with big tyres.

There is a big following coming up through the 4x4 ranks that are falling in love with the late model Disco's!

I'd rather go out in my Disco and every other driver turn up their noses until they see what it can do, gets conversation going and surprises the hell out of the average Aussie Bogan! Rather than show up in a Pootrol with a 6 inch lift and 37's and do what it is expected to do.

[MR LR]

Rubbish
I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be happy in a mud hole up to the bonnet... In fact from a recent thread I read in this very section of the forum, it wouldn't like it at all...! I once got my D1 bogged in this situation, winched it out, checked the oils which were clean and drove it home and re-greased everything :p

I'm sure some smart arse will be along to remind me that I drowned my D1 in 300mm of water (I'm quite sure the engine bay was well and truly full though, as i was being a bit of a ******), however I'll point out that that was user error and mechanical neglect that let the water straight in, it wasn't because 18 computers had a brain fart :twisted:

I think it's foolish to think a modern car could put up with the punishment of an older car (talking stock vehicles here).

And just to make sure it's understood, I'm not talking about perfect scenario capability, I know a D3/4 is more capable offroad, when it's all working properly.

[rb30gtr]

I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be happy in a mud hole up to the bonnet... In fact from a recent thread I read in this very section of the forum, it wouldn't like it at all...! I once got my D1 bogged in this situation, winched it out, checked the oils which were clean and drove it home and re-greased everything :p

I'm sure some smart arse will be along to remind me that I drowned my D1 in 300mm of water (I'm quite sure the engine bay was well and truly full though, as i was being a bit of a ******), however I'll point out that that was user error and mechanical neglect that let the water straight in, it wasn't because 18 computers had a brain fart :twisted:

I think it's foolish to think a modern car could put up with the punishment of an older car (talking stock vehicles here).

And just to make sure it's understood, I'm not talking about perfect scenario capability, I know a D3/4 is more capable offroad, when it's all working properly.

I had my D3 deeper than that last Saturday. And didn't need a winch to get out.
I think you should probably get a little more personal experience before making such statements.
Happy for you to come along on our next 4x4 trip?

The old car v's new car comparison blows my mind, where do you get that opinion?

[gghaggis]

I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be happy in a mud hole up to the bonnet... In fact from a recent thread I read in this very section of the forum, it wouldn't like it at all...! I once got my D1 bogged in this situation, winched it out, checked the oils which were clean and drove it home and re-greased everything :p

I'm sure some smart arse will be along to remind me that I drowned my D1 in 300mm of water (I'm quite sure the engine bay was well and truly full though, as i was being a bit of a ******), however I'll point out that that was user error and mechanical neglect that let the water straight in, it wasn't because 18 computers had a brain fart :twisted:

I think it's foolish to think a modern car could put up with the punishment of an older car (talking stock vehicles here).

And just to make sure it's understood, I'm not talking about perfect scenario capability, I know a D3/4 is more capable offroad, when it's all working properly.

So hang on - you find one instance of a D3 drowning and take that as typical of a D3's ability, but one instance of you drowning a D1 is atypical????

Do a course in rational thinking ...

[MR LR]

I had my D3 deeper than that last Saturday. And didn't need a winch to get out.
I think you should probably get a little more personal experience before making such statements.
Happy for you to come along on our next 4x4 trip?

The old car v's new car comparison blows my mind, where do you get that opinion?
I'd actually be genuinely interested in taking you up on that! :D

I've grown up in family that has a vehicle from every decade for the last 108 years, it's just an observation of the durability of those vehicles, personally I wouldn't own a new Land Rover outside of the warranty period, and if I had to pick 1 in a zombie apocalypse, I'd either take the RRC or series 2a Landy, merely for the offroad capability and field repairability, if I didn't need any offroad capability I'd take the 1909 Scat.

Comparing my old Tdi D1, to my present Td5 D2, I'd class the D1 as more durable, merely due to the lack of electronics and complications, I'd love to see what a D3 costs to keep on the road in 30 or 40 years :eek:

[MR LR]

So hang on - you find one instance of a D3 drowning and take that as typical of a D3's ability, but one instance of you drowning a D1 is atypical????

Do a course in rational thinking ...
So different computers of the same make and model will react differently when immersed in water for the period it takes to recover it?

Yeah... I'm the irrational one!

I'm not talking about capability, I'm talking about the ability of a vehicle to take punishment and come back for more.

[rocmic]

I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be happy in a mud hole up to the bonnet... In fact from a recent thread I read in this very section of the forum, it wouldn't like it at all...! I once got my D1 bogged in this situation, winched it out, checked the oils which were clean and drove it home and re-greased everything :p

I'm sure some smart arse will be along to remind me that I drowned my D1 in 300mm of water (I'm quite sure the engine bay was well and truly full though, as i was being a bit of a ******), however I'll point out that that was user error and mechanical neglect that let the water straight in, it wasn't because 18 computers had a brain fart :twisted:

I think it's foolish to think a modern car could put up with the punishment of an older car (talking stock vehicles here).

And just to make sure it's understood, I'm not talking about perfect scenario capability, I know a D3/4 is more capable offroad, when it's all working properly.

That thread is here http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/185361-my-landy-drowned.html

Seems from the initial post that it was a fair bit more than 300mm of water and mud. It also seems that the vehicle was driveable afterwards. There was also a fair bit of damage caused by the recovery attempts.
No evidence of the 'puters either causing or exacerbating the problem.

Cheers
Mike

[gghaggis]

You miss the point - anyone can find an example of any model failing. You're using one exemplar for one side of the argument, and ignoring one to support it!

The Camel Trophy cars weren't standard trim. Quite a few of them broke down. A D3 (or D4) with the same additions would likely go as far or further. Some of the G4 challenges show that.

[MR LR]

That thread is here http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/185361-my-landy-drowned.html

Seems from the initial post that it was a fair bit more than 300mm of water and mud. It also seems that the vehicle was driveable afterwards. There was also a fair bit of damage caused by the recovery attempts.
No evidence of the 'puters either causing or exacerbating the problem.

Cheers
Mike
Obviously my mathematical brain can't understand how much I suck at English, because noone can understand what I'm saying. So I'll try once more, then after that I've said enough, obviously noone can look beyond the nanocom :p

The computers aren't causing the problem, but they are affected by it, this goes for any electronically controlled device. If you re-read even the first post (and I had a quick 3 second look to refresh my memory), the cruise control packed up (that's a 'puter), to name one fault, there were more.

This could happen to any car with a computer, I'm not picking on the D3/4 drivers here.

The problems are caused by the person that drives and or maintains the vehicle, my comments are all to do with how well the machine can cope with the adverse conditions. For example a 300tdi D1 that sits in water up to the bonnet for 20 minutes, will likely have less issues than a D4 or LC200 that does the same thing, I'd say the latter would be more likely to go home on a flatbed, than the former.

If I had to negotiate a difficult area, I'd choose a D4 over a D1, for it's capability, but as I said, in a zombie apocalypse, I'd take one of the old girls.

[MR LR]

You miss the point - anyone can find an example of any model failing. You're using one exemplar for one side of the argument, and ignoring one to support it!

The Camel Trophy cars weren't standard trim. Quite a few of them broke down. A D3 (or D4) with the same additions would likely go as far or further. Some of the G4 challenges show that.
Nah mate, you are not understanding my point, I agree with yours, about capability.

[gghaggis]

Nah mate, you are not understanding my point, I agree with yours, about capability.

Nor you mine. For a post 2005 car, you need a different set of tools, and a slightly different mindset. With those, there's little if any difference in reliability. There are thousands of threads about D1's breaking down, stranding people, being recovered home. Same for ANY make or model. If you take a few hours to educate yourself, a D3/D4 presents no more a barrier to reliability than anything else.

The fact that a 4x4 mag doesn't, and then trounces the brand is a reflection of our self-centered opinionated culture, not a weakness in the model design.

Cheers

Gordon

[Chops]

Which one Wayne? ...Latte or a flat white ....:p

Latte' please,,, ;)


No Terry it's Hibiscus tea for our Defender boys:cool:

Sorry Baz,,, Yuck


I thought you only drank Hibiscus tea to get rid of constipation?

Does this mean the Defender boys are all full of ****? ....:eek:

Now now Terry,, no more than anyone else,,, ;)

[Grant052]

You need to realise this is a mag essentially for Toyota and Nissan with a (very small) smattering of the other marques, to the point they're almost apologists for those brands:mad:

[MR LR]

Nor you mine. For a post 2005 car, you need a different set of tools, and a slightly different mindset. With those, there's little if any difference in reliability. There are thousands of threads about D1's breaking down, stranding people, being recovered home. Same for ANY make or model. If you take a few hours to educate yourself, a D3/D4 presents no more a barrier to reliability than anything else.

The fact that a 4x4 mag doesn't, and then trounces the brand is a reflection of our self-centered opinionated culture, not a weakness in the model design.

Cheers

Gordon
I'll sum it up then - a post 2005 car has a shorter service life than a pre-computer car, that is what durability is, it's not capability, and it's not reliability, I don't believe I ever mentioned those two words (and if I did it was an accident), every response to my comments has involved a disagreement to something I never said. A service life is subject to wear and tear, more wear and tear = more breakages, sending a computer for a swim is going to cause more damage than giving an old diesel a drink.

It's called obsolescence, new technology does not have the same service life as the old stuff.

Cheers
Will

[komaterpillar]

sending a computer for a swim is going to cause more damage than giving an old diesel a drink.

Cheers
Will

I'd rather be sitting on the side of a track drying a bit of wiring out or an ecu, as opposed to sitting on the side of a track with a sump full of bent rods. Just sayin

[gghaggis]

Mr LR

You agreed that driving a D3/4 as they did the Camel Trophy cars would break them. You said that a D3/4 would never drive the routes you've done in a D1 or RRC. The CT cars were NEW cars, so directly comparable to the new D3's in the G4. Your D1/RRC's are modified, so comparable to my D3's/RRS, although probably more modified than mine. Where's the reliability issue?

[MR LR]

I'd rather be sitting on the side of a track drying a bit of wiring out or an ecu, as opposed to sitting on the side of a track with a sump full of bent rods. Just sayin

I didn't actually damage the engine upon inspection, had my D1 been manual I would have driven it home, the battery was stuffed, this lead to false assumptions and a trailer was called in.

Surely if you were to assume that the D1 had hydraulic locked, the D4 would have done the same...


Mr LR

You agreed that driving a D3/4 as they did the Camel Trophy cars would break them. You said that a D3/4 would never drive the routes you've done in a D1 or RRC. The CT cars were NEW cars, so directly comparable to the new D3's in the G4. Your D1/RRC's are modified, so comparable to my D3's/RRS, although probably more modified than mine. Where's the reliability issue?

You can't compare the G4 challenge to the Camel Trophy, it's nothing like it. And I acknowledge that they beat the living hell out of those Trophy cars, especially in the early years.

My cars are actually stock as far as driveline goes ATM, the RRC has a slight lift (under 1") they just had/have bigger tires, and a winch for self recovery, I have used this once for myself (the mudhole), a dozen times or so for other people.

My RR has a snorkel, but I avoid water because the V8 isn't a fan of it :angel:, my D1 had the stock air intake, with a broken airbox to guard connection, this is what let the water in to the engine.

I'm sure a brand new D4 would not have drowned where my D1 failed to proceed, I'm also sure a brand new D1 would have been fine aswell, it was neglect and arrogance on my part that the car was put in that situation, and I am the first to admit that, which is why I desire to shove my foot up the arse of any person small enough to belittle me about it (the ****** should know who he is), I clearly learned a few lessons from that, and gained more experience than had I read it in a book (I see this as a win).

Do you genuinely believe a stock D4 is tougher than a stock D1, Gordon? As in essence that is what I originally said, or how about an 80 series vs. 200 series.

Cheers
Will

[gghaggis]

Do you genuinely believe a stock D4 is tougher than a stock D1, Gordon? As in essence that is what I originally said, or how about an 80 series vs. 200 series.

Cheers
Will

This is the essence of it - yes, I genuinely believe a stock D3/D4 is tougher overall than a D1. The (small) issues that will stop it are far more fixable than the issues that will stop a D1. I ran them side-by-side - a modified D1 (Class C) and a nearly stock D3 (Class A). My wife was a complete Land Rover widow when we ran the D1 in competition. I got a new lease on marriage when I bought the D3. Anecdotal I know, but consistently backed up by the lack of "I broke my axles" threads on this forum.

Cheers,

Gordon

[robbotd5]

Come on guys this is not a D1 vs D4 debate. Nor is arguing about chalk and cheese. I'd love to own a D4 some day. But I feel that handing these 4WDA morons a D4 is just a marketing ploy. He won't get rid of his landcrusher. I subscribed to this publication for 3 years and while it was good when Pat Callinan was there but Roothy always rubbed me up the wrong way. Because of his Toyota clouded mentality. It will be a flash in the pan thing and when they run out of capital for the D4, they will go back to yota with no regard for what an awesome groundbreaking pioneering vehicle the Land Rover is.
Ps. I can't stand how Roothy pronounces Land Rover as " Lan drover" bloody annoying.
Regards
Robbo

[MR LR]

Gordon,

I can definitely appreciate where you are coming from, and I can definitely understand it with respect to the driveline, overall I still lean towards live axles, coil springs etc, but after this discussion I have a greater interest in observing the merits of a D4 in proper 4WDing situations, maybe my mind will be changed about independently suspended vehicles having no structural cred, my mind is open to it... (I just remembered H1's are independant...)

Can't say I'd ever choose one as a toy, I couldn't bear to damage it, but quietly I do like driving the D4 :wasntme:

Cheers
Will

[MR LR]

Ps. I can't stand how Roothy pronounces Land Rover as " Lan drover" bloody annoying.
Regards
Robbo

Ever heard a cute little pommie chick say it? :wasntme::cool:;)

[~Rich~]

Roo Systems have most likely leased or bought the D4 through the business. Its a tax deduction as with any company vehicle. It will have a warranty like any other D4, depending on what they change on it of course.

[gghaggis]

... but after this discussion I have a greater interest in observing the merits of a D4 in proper 4WDing situations,

Well then, get yourself over to Perth next March and observe from behind the wheel - we'll supply the car ;)



maybe my mind will be changed about independently suspended vehicles having no structural cred

I can't even begin to fathom where this comes from - you've heard of the Dakar Rally, right??
Cheers,

Gordon

[MR LR]

Well then, get yourself over to Perth next March and observe from behind the wheel - we'll supply the car ;)

Really? :D


I can't even begin to fathom where this comes from - you've heard of the Dakar Rally, right??
Cheers,

Gordon

Commercially made dune buggies I've played with actually (albeit chinese)... I've ripped a front wheel off driving through a gravel drain! That's when I decided it was time to make my own, heavier duty one! :D And also looking at photos in the auctions of written off Land Rovers.

Cheers
Will

[AnD3rew]

This is anecdotal and one off experience I know, but I went on a club day with a bunch of deefers (which I love and am not trash talking). And on one very steep rocky section of track with a big slippery step near the top two of the deefers broke CV joints my D3 crawled up no worries. I attribute this to the deefers having to hit it at a bit of speed to get over it and the D3 can just walk up to it and then slowly over it. This enables the car to go just as far but with less stress on components.

Also of course a matter of age and luck, several other deefers made it up without drama so it is not conclusive but I found it interesting. There were a few hairy sections on that trip with waterholes, thick mud, rocks etc etc. there was nothing the deefers did my D3 couldn't do.

On the Lithgow day organized by TerryO where there were 25 or so D3/4's and 1 RRS there was only one casualty and there were some good challenges not all of which I attempted, but it was amazed what these vehicles are capable of.

Mine is set up primarily for touring but it can still cut it in the rough stuff for a bit of a play.

[~Rich~]

Yeah, pity Jamie's video on that D3, D4 RRS weekend isn't up yet. Plenty of footage there!

[SBD4]

Yeah, pity Jamie's video on that D3, D4 RRS weekend isn't up yet. Plenty of footage there!

yeah, I've been hanging out for that too!

[rangietragic]

It never ceases to amuse me how 4wd mags will compare say two different vehicles over the same ground,but they will have different tyres!I dont care how many traction aids or kw you have,if you are on road tyres up a steep muddy track,your stuffed;).I can understand the d1 boys being wary of the d3/4s electronics,not saying its based on fact,but the KISS principle still applies.You get the same with tdi versus td5,the fact is all newer vehicles are packed full of electronics,so we better get used to the idea.Ive only ever driven rr classics and deefers off road,but id love to try a new disco:).As to the verbal slanging matches on this forum,just rember we all love land rovers and are all on the same side!Its us against the nissotas:p

[LowRanger]

This is anecdotal and one off experience I know, but I went on a club day with a bunch of deefers (which I love and am not trash talking). And on one very steep rocky section of track with a big slippery step near the top two of the deefers broke CV joints my D3 crawled up no worries. I attribute this to the deefers having to hit it at a bit of speed to get over it and the D3 can just walk up to it and then slowly over it. This enables the car to go just as far but with less stress on components.

Also of course a matter of age and luck, several other deefers made it up without drama so it is not conclusive but I found it interesting. There were a few hairy sections on that trip with waterholes, thick mud, rocks etc etc. there was nothing the deefers did my D3 couldn't do.

On the Lithgow day organized by TerryO where there were 25 or so D3/4's and 1 RRS there was only one casualty and there were some good challenges not all of which I attempted, but it was amazed what these vehicles are capable of.

Mine is set up primarily for touring but it can still cut it in the rough stuff for a bit of a play.

That particular section of track isn't that difficult,and would only rate at Grade C at best and can be driven by standard vehicles from all the major players;)As shown by the fact that Andrew was able to drive it in his Patrol.
Nick broke a cv when he put his boot into a standard open diff Defender.Standard Land Rover failures over the years,heavy right boot and weak standard components.;)

[adzee]

Wow - wasn't expecting a slanging match... But a lot of interesting discussion. The breakage I am concerned for is its components that aren't common, due to their way of driving. But I can honestly say for the two years I had my D3 I took it through incredible challenges and not at the most respectful way as I was learning the hard way how these rigs like to be driven. Once I learnt it was incredible to see it perform.

Anyone wanting to see good comparisons between Marques and models just search YouTube for Misadventure 4WD TV - you will thoroughly enjoy the hours of video you can view.

[Pilbara130]

Ps. I can't stand how Roothy pronounces Land Rover as " Lan drover" bloody annoying.
Regards
Robbo

I will have to watch the way I pronounce Lan drover from now on.

[AnD3rew]

That particular section of track isn't that difficult,and would only rate at Grade C at best and can be driven by standard vehicles from all the major players;)As shown by the fact that Andrew was able to drive it in his Patrol.
Nick broke a cv when he put his boot into a standard open diff Defender.Standard Land Rover failures over the years,heavy right boot and weak standard components.;)

That was exactly my point, the D3 with traction aids but no lockers crawled over it easily, the deefers with open diffs had to hit it harder to get over it which caused two of them to break. It may not overall have been that tough a track but that particular bit of the hill with that rock ledge was a tricky bit.

[DiscoWeb]

Bloody hell, this thread had taken a strange and ugly turn !!!

Whilst I buy the odd the 4WDA mag, I quite like watching the videos, the mag itself I find to be generally hopeless and simply a glorified catalogue for anything vaguely related to 4wding and camping.

But as I am not a 20 yr apprentice looking to build my 1990's hilux into a quasi comp truck with three of my mate doing all the spanner work on a budget of $1,000 I am not their target market.

Now Glenn at Roo System owning a D4, awesome.

I for 1 think it will go a bloody long way to dispelling much of the negative perceptions surrounding the capability and reliability of the brand, even if it is to an audience that is most unlikely to ever own one.

I assume most on this section of the forum and more widely on the site have seen the great YouTube channel "Misadventure 4wd".

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmc50qQ5eXuB0i2R7_oFqlg

Jimmy Salsa (I think that is what Jamie calls himself these days on the forum) and Chris (Mini bloodhound) and others drive their RRS and D4 together with Kev in his awesome V8 D2, as well and Toyota's, Mitsubishi Triton etc up and down some bloody impressive tracks and consistently the D4 makes it look the easiest of all.

Now I think Jamie and his mates are much more sensible than Roothy and his crew but honestly how many owners are prepared to do what either do in their standard daily drive 4wd.

Roothys old 60 is so modified it is hardly a Land Cruiser and definitely not a daily driver, I must say one of the only things I respect about Roothy is that he drives that POS all over the country as it must be horrendous to do anything more than 20 kmh in.

I think I would be great to see someone really thrash one and kitted with a snorkel and the right kit these things can take a beating.

As I said I think the D4 will surprise many of the 4WDA Neanderthals, but really do we honestly care what they think anyone ?

Not sure why we have all started turning on each other in this thread but lets stop making assumptions about how the D4 will be treat and see how things pan out.

Regards,

George

[komaterpillar]

Got to say I'm pretty pumped to see a D4 centre stage in the spotlight, and am looking forward to the knock-on effect in accessories :D

[Chops]

Bloody hell, this thread had taken a strange and ugly turn !!!

Whilst I buy the odd the 4WDA mag, I quite like watching the videos, the mag itself I find to be generally hopeless and simply a glorified catalogue for anything vaguely related to 4wding and camping.

But as I am not a 20 yr apprentice looking to build my 1990's hilux into a quasi comp truck with three of my mate doing all the spanner work on a budget of $1,000 I am not their target market.

Now Glenn at Roo System owning a D4, awesome.

I for 1 think it will go a bloody long way to dispelling much of the negative perceptions surrounding the capability and reliability of the brand, even if it is to an audience that is most unlikely to ever own one.

I assume most on this section of the forum and more widely on the site have seen the great YouTube channel "Misadventure 4wd".

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmc50qQ5eXuB0i2R7_oFqlg

Jimmy Salsa (I think that is what Jamie calls himself these days on the forum) and Chris (Mini bloodhound) and others drive their RRS and D4 together with Kev in his awesome V8 D2, as well and Toyota's, Mitsubishi Triton etc up and down some bloody impressive tracks and consistently the D4 makes it look the easiest of all.

Now I think Jamie and his mates are much more sensible than Roothy and his crew but honestly how many owners are prepared to do what either do in their standard daily drive 4wd.

Roothys old 60 is so modified it is hardly a Land Cruiser and definitely not a daily driver, I must say one of the only things I respect about Roothy is that he drives that POS all over the country as it must be horrendous to do anything more than 20 kmh in.

I think I would be great to see someone really thrash one and kitted with a snorkel and the right kit these things can take a beating.

As I said I think the D4 will surprise many of the 4WDA Neanderthals, but really do we honestly care what they think anyone ?

Not sure why we have all started turning on each other in this thread but lets stop making assumptions about how the D4 will be treat and see how things pan out.

Regards,

George

From what's been said on the vids and mags by Roothy, it gets chucked in a shipping container more often than not,,,

However, I still love seeing where they go. Having to do this for a job must truly be epic.

[discojools]

Just had a post called "Toyota Lemons" appear on Facebook.. Very illuminating! Don't know where it came from. I reckon its slightly topical with regards to this thread.

And yes it will be very interesting to see what happens with the D4.

[Chops]

Just had a post called "Toyota Lemons" appear on Facebook.. Very illuminating! Don't know where it came from. I reckon its slightly topical with regards to this thread.

And yes it will be very interesting to see what happens with the D4.

Link?

[~Rich~]

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1960017

Sorry taken down! It was there last week. :(
http://www.ohwhatalemon.com/


Maybe Mr Toyota?

[discotwinturbo]

members.iinet.net.au/~oldenglish/toyotacomplaints.htm Incoming!!! (http://members.iinet.net.au/~oldenglish/toyotacomplaints.htm)

Can't get that link to work.

I saw the ohwhatalemon.com is no longer active.

Brett...

[lpj]

Link?

Google "my Toyota lemons".
I just searched via Facebook and it was the first to come up.

[CaverD3]

Can't get that link to work.

I saw the ohwhatalemon.com is no longer active.

Brett...

He bought another Tojo! Maybe they helped out?

[rangietragic]

Heard on weekend roosystems d4 will not be modified,grocery getter.Also heard someone else associated with 4wd action is getting a d4;).Maybe the green oval is starting to get some respect at last:).

[stevo68]

Wow, what a read. Boy oh boy. Here's some thing's I have read over the last 7+ yrs on the foryum.." 4WDA never have any LR content" "4WDA all they do is bag LR's" "4WDA are just hoons, videos all they show is tearing up stuff etc". Roll on a few years and we have a regular in Jamie in both his 130's. LR's of all sorts featured regularly in the mags and now a D4. Also all I read is LR owners bagging and hanging more crap than I have ever read from the "opposite" side.

I'm sorry, I thought all of us regardless of make/brand etc have a common interest......4WDing in all its formats. Some of the comments on here make us look like a bunch of *****. As for D3/D4 not being tough enough...firstly...good on ya. Secondly I owned at the time a brand new D3 HSE V8 and many would attest that I put that beast through the ringer....from new....it is after all a 4WD regardless of its price tag. It survived and is still kicking on with its 3rd owner with over 200k on it. We should be celebrating not bitching about it.

I am a subscriber and I also watch all the DVD's, there is nothing in there that I or my mates havent done. In fact I am envious of all the places that they get to go to. As for Roothy, wish there were more of him in the 4WD world pushing for the rights of the average 4WD owner. I've met him a few times, down to earth, passionate and rough around the edges.

Some of the comments in here are just as bad if a Toyota etc owner was bagging LR...those in glass houses :angel:. Also if you watch enough of the DVD's, they all bag each other out and makes etc, its called banter. I offroad with all makes of vehicles, same happens, but we all know we share the same passion and that's what matters,

Regards

Stevo

[HarryO]

I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be happy in a mud hole up to the bonnet... In fact from a recent thread I read in this very section of the forum,

If you are referring to my recent "Bog Hole" post – the fact that an underwater root got stuck in between the bodywork and Bullbar is hardly anything to do with the vehicle. (You could say I got Rooted :p:p). If anything it was just bad luck or at worst driver error for going in there in the first place.

Anyhow I had a great day out using my vehicle as a true 4x4 and got a mud bath / facial for nothing:(. Electronics checked out OK and most of the damage was caused by the root and the rest was water damage. (carpets, etc). I have 100% faith in my D3:)

[Yorkie]

i love 4wda and always will

That maybe so Steve but the truth is that mag has been putting crap on our loved brand for years and their readers use that info and continue to bag out the brand no matter what. So what if they now have some landy ownership, the articles still lack depth and technical knowledge written by people with little knowledge of the vehicles or 4wd techniques.
So basis that info those of use that care will continue to bag out that magazine because we can. :p

[stevo68]

That maybe so Steve but the truth is that mag has been putting crap on our loved brand for years and their readers use that info and continue to bag out the brand no matter what. So what if they now have some landy ownership, the articles still lack depth and technical knowledge written by people with little knowledge of the vehicles or 4wd techniques.
So basis that info those of use that care will continue to bag out that magazine because we can. :p

Oi.....The quote you highlighted. ..I never said?? I have to say Ive been reading the mag for years and havent really read anything I would consider "hanging" crap on LRs. If anything its been pretty good feedback. If you want to LRs being bagged watch the Top Gear USA episode with Rangie v escalade v jeep srt.

Regards

Stevo

Sent from my GT-I9305T using AULRO mobile app

[101RRS]

That maybe so Steve but the truth is that mag has been putting crap on our loved brand for years and their readers use that info and continue to bag out the brand no matter what.

I agree - you just have to look at Roothy's condescending (ok tongue in cheek) attitude towards the marque in the vid linked in the first post.

I hope all goes well and 4wd Action proves most on here wrong - but I don't think so.

[discotwinturbo]

Unofficial....but from 4WD Action:

"G'day Brett, I'm pretty sure the Landy is his missus' car but won't be getting built up to use on DVDs. Cheers Brenno"

:-(

Brett...

[lpj]

Its pretty clear that 4WD Action are going for a different demographic than might ordinarily buy a Landrover- especially a D4 or RRS.

Personally I have enjoyed their vids (or infomercials if you like) and my 6 yr old boy loves them as well. He's come back to me with all sorts of ideas for what we need for our car!

The YouTube vid is obviously tongue in cheek and he probably knows would get the reaction its got here. It's also a bit a a rallying call to the demographic he is going for.

As to being happy with my choice- hey, I'm the one on the hook for 80 grand so I don't have to please anyone but myself!

[Marmoset]

Perhaps they'll be tempted to throw some more aggressive tyres on itone day and just take it out. It doesn't really need much building up to cope with what's out there.

[gghaggis]

I did a cover story in 2008 for them with my D3. Although the article itself ended being fairly neutral about the brand, it started off reminding readers how their D3 had "died" on the 2006 Cape shootout.

The guys that came over to do the story were none too slow to remind me of this as well. So I queried them as to what had actually happened, and showed them how they could have fixed it in-situ. I suggested that it was inexperience with the new technology that stranded their D3, to which they readily agreed but of course, that bit never made it into the article.

They were impressed with what a D3 would do on a decent set of tyres, and sort of implied it in the article, but one couldn't help but compare the rather flat language in the piece with the descriptions they'd typically use for a modded Toyo or Nissan.

I chatted with Roothy at the Perth 4WD Action show a few years later - I had my Sport on display in our booth. He didn't consider it a real 4WD :mad:

Cheers,

Gordon

[Disco Muppet]

I chatted with Roothy at the Perth 4WD Action show a few years later - I had my Sport on display in our booth. He didn't consider it a real 4WD :mad:


Because it's not a heap of **** 40 series that's been rebuilt 8-9 times :)
I can tolerate most of the stuff that's in 4WDA, I do enjoy the DVDs although they tend to get a bit cowboy at times, and Shauno has the on-camera presence of a burnt piece of rubber.
That said, I've got a new 2 year subscription, and I reserve my right to criticize and nit-pick the bits of the magazine and DVDs that I enjoy, and the bits that I disagree with.

[discojools]

I just bought this or last months copy of 4WD Action and wondered why I bothered...I will enjoy the DVD though or should I just wait for it to be shown on Foxtel and save me money!

[rangietragic]

If you want to LRs being bagged watch the Top Gear USA episode with Rangie v escalade v jeep srt.

Regards

Stevo

Sent from my GT-I9305T using AULRO mobile app
Love top gear,won't watch top gear usa,its crap.

[stevo68]

Love top gear,won't watch top gear usa,its crap. you forgot to say "its crap. ....in your opinion" :rolleyes: Aust Top gear was crap in most peoples opinion. Personally I find the US one pretty good once you get to know the characters. Plus they do some great stuff/challenges on there, not half arsed like the Aust version. I know a good show, the show is excellent, just maybe the hosts aren't everyone's cuppa tea.....in my opinion ;)

Regards

Stevo

Sent from my GT-I9305T using AULRO mobile app

[101RRS]

you forgot to say "its crap. ....in your opinion" :rolleyes:

Regards

Stevo

Sent from my GT-I9305T using AULRO mobile app

Nah its just Crap

[stevo68]

Nah its just Crap so what makes it crap? How many episodes or series have you watched to determine its crap? The challenges/production is on par with TGUK. So it is just the presenters?

Regards

Stevo



Sent from my GT-I9305T using AULRO mobile app

[101RRS]

I have watched quite a few episodes - is crap and on par with the Aussie version.

It is just plain awful.

[rangietragic]

I think for me its the presenters.The yanks get hold of a show and put their own spin on it to suit other yanks,however its just not to my taste.Top gear aust.was't bad,you could see they were trying,but no where near as good as the original.The chemistry between Clarkson,Hammond and May just can't be equaled.Of course thats just my opinion,:p

[stevo68]

I have watched quite a few episodes - is crap and on par with the Aussie version.

It is just plain awful. How many episodes, how long ago and what makes it crap? I ask purely because Im interested as I think it is a good show. Hosts are like able, they drive great cars, interesting challenges etc. Leaves AustTG and Fifth gear for dead. So what exactly is crap about it. Or is it crap cause it doesn't have a cuppla English chappies on it ;)

Regards

Stevo



Sent from my GT-I9305T using AULRO mobile app

[CaverD3]

I think TG USA is soooooooooooo much better than Aus version.
Very culturally US but right for their market.
TG Aus did not get that TG is not a car show. ;)

[VladTepes]

He (Roothy) used to write for Two Wheels in the 80's, his monthly columns were often way out there in the wonder zone.

Yep and much like EVERY damn column he writes these days mentions "Milo", back then it was ALWAYS about "Ruby" his Harley.....

[101RRS]

How many episodes, how long ago and what makes it crap?

I watched about 10 minutes last week as it is currently running on TV - how many episodes - dunno - I don't count them - they usually get turned off once I have had enough of those awful presenters.

You like it - great - go watch crap.

At the moment you are out voted 2 to 1 so crap has the mandate.:)

[stevo68]

I watched about 10 minutes last week as it is currently running on TV - how many episodes - dunno - I don't count them - they usually get turned off once I have had enough of those awful presenters.

You like it - great - go watch crap.

At the moment you are out voted 2 to 1 so crap has the mandate.:)2/2 actually :p

Regards

Stevo



Sent from my GT-I9305T using AULRO mobile app

[VladTepes]

For me, in order of preference:

TG (the real one)
Daylight
TG USA
Getting my fingernails pulled out.
TG Australia.

[CaverD3]

Exactly the same for me. :Rolling::BigThumb:

[gossamer]

i don't mind both the UK and USA versions but im finding the UK is very predictable :( you can pretty well tell whats going to happen before it does. Love their specials though like Vietnam etc. Personally i think you cant beat the BBC production team on the show, the camera work is what makes the show IMO

[Redback]

I don't like all 3 and I'd rate them about the same, I watch one part of the show "celeb in a reasonably priced car" the rest of the show is rubbish.

It's 5th Gear for me:p

Baz.

[CaverD3]

5th Gear is a show about cars.

[Redback]

5th Gear is a show about cars.

So is TG, they just go about it in a different way;)

Baz.

[CaverD3]

Cars is only the context.
entertaining show of three middle aged idiots having fun.:D

[rangietragic]

Clarkson loves rangies and hammond and his wife both have defenders,that has to count for something:)