Remaps, Intercoolers, other mods and a dead EGR.

[newhue]

Ok it seems the old EGR has hit it's 45K run life and died again. This has been my experience. $800 is the repair bill so a remap to shut it up forever is cheaper, and hopefully more reliable.
Now with all the excitement of possibly pulling 120KN and 450Nb out of the little old 2.4Tdci, I'm trying to filter the marketing form the reality. I am not sure if I need every mod to get 120Kn, but I also don't need it either. The list of mods can add up with de cat pipes, silicone hoses, bigger intercoolers, removing mufflers......
I do accept it all makes a difference, but having paid $1200 for a 5% gain with an exhaust in another life, I don't feel the need to do it again.

I've been advised by a UK tuner, that living here in the wide brown land an intercooler is a good investment regardless of if a tune is added or not.

I have been directed to an Alisport $830Au intercooler. I see Paddocks sell $504Au version with similar size, welding, and specs. Has anyone had experience with either. Are they simple to fit or a bit of a pig. I'm not all that excited about one mod creating another. I'm happy to do just the map really, but if a cooler is easily to fit and has some benefit like more that 5%, it may be plausible.

I've also been advised, if my hoses are old then it's worth replacing with Silicone, but until then no need. Is 95K old, or perishing crack = old.

experiences please....

[n plus one]

I've got the BAS remap, alli intercooler and Nuggets air box mods - all of which are money well spent and have netted a significant (understatement) gain with no additional cost (possibly a small saving) at the pump.

Currently playing with the exhaust (which I'm led to believe is the least restrictive part of the 2.4) - I've pulled the resonator and replaced the main muffler with a hi flow. Which appears to have achieved very little, leading me to conclude that the cat is where the gains (if any) are to be had. Currently toying with the idea of a full 3 inch system with hi flow cat but the $$$ is a little off putting (to say the least).

[Naks]

I've got a BAS remap, Alisport intercooler and the cat's innards have been drilled out.

In order of mods:

1. BAS remap: as amazing as the original BAS remap was, the version2 map is even better.
results: increase in performance, decrease in fuel consumption, decrease in EGTs

2. Alisport intercooler
results: even more increase in performance, further decrease in EGTs

3. Removing cat's internals
results: a bit more oomph at low revs, reduced turbo lag and a further decrease in EGTs


In real terms, this is what the sum of the mods amounts to: at the Atlantis dunes, where other Pumas are climbing dunes in 3rd/4th Low, I am doing in in 2nd High without any issues or high EGTs :)

[newhue]

I've got the BAS remap, alli intercooler and Nuggets air box mods - all of which are money well spent and have netted a significant (understatement) gain with no additional cost (possibly a small saving) at the pump.

Currently playing with the exhaust (which I'm led to believe is the least restrictive part of the 2.4) - I've pulled the resonator and replaced the main muffler with a hi flow. Which appears to have achieved very little, leading me to conclude that the cat is where the gains (if any) are to be had. Currently toying with the idea of a full 3 inch system with hi flow cat but the $$$ is a little off putting (to say the least).

Thanks for the honesty. Some cars seem to respond to various mods differently I think. A mates patrol did well with an exhaust, but my rodeo did zip. The puma already has a 2.75mm exhaust, so I doubt there will be much gain in a 3".

What % do you think the intercoller did. I'd imaging the tune delivers most of the gain, the add on just top it up. It certinally was the case with the old rodeo.

[n plus one]

What % do you think the intercoller did. I'd imaging the tune delivers most of the gain, the add on just top it up. It certinally was the case with the old rodeo.

Yep, the tune is the big gain - the intercooler (plus silicon hoses) is seat of the pants noticeable but not night and day. If I had to describe it I'd say tgat the intercooler is worth about the same amount as a hot vs cold day on the standard engine ie things are running better, but it's still the same engine. Tune makes it feel like you've done an engine conversion!

Don't neglect the air intake though - its definitely the best bang for buck improvement - almost as good as the intercooler at substantially less cost.

[newhue]

I have sent out a feeler for freight on an intercooler so see what transpires.
It does make sense have to admit, as it all does, but extracting every bit of power is not the priority. To be honest I'm still in two minds if by pulling more Kw from the motor compromises longevity. LR in Defenders anyway, have stuck close to 90Kw and 360Nm right through the model range over the past 30 years. Weather it's drive line limitations, or what they feel is a good compromise I haven't been able to work out. They sure have copped some stick and lost sales from sticking to the smaller power range.

Oddly enough I replaced my 33's with some city 32's today. And for the initial drive to work noticed the change in holding itself better on reasonably steep hills, and a bit more spritely. I'd liken it to the exhaust I once did. Not amazing but noticeable in a small way, but certainly not worth $1200.

If a cooler can do the same and be landed for half than most likely will go with that. The rest is a bit to refined for me I think.
What ever I do I should move pretty quickly I think. LR won't admit a buggerd EGR valve plays with economy. But the last time it happened I was only getting 300klm on some tanks. With the xmas expedition to just about start it's going to hurt at that.

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Having sold all these bits and bobs in a former life, this are the best bang for buck bits. Noting that I have no experience with Nugets air-box mods so can't comment one way or another.

1. BAS Remap - I'd personally only get a BAS one
2. Allisport intercooler (they fit!!)
3. Decat front pipe.
4. EGR removal kit

Unless your hoses are stuffed, there is nothing to be had by changing them.

Hath
J

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[Naks]

and Nuggets air box mods -

Mate, can you provide some more details on this mod please?

[Samblers]

Ive got no idea about remaps but reading with interest (prob get even more interested when EGR valve dies)

Is a BAS remap specific to an individual car? What stops someone borrowing the kit from another puma owner?

[Naks]

Is a BAS remap specific to an individual car? What stops someone borrowing the kit from another puma owner?


Yep, the map is VIN-coded.

[n plus one]

Mate, can you provide some more details on this mod please?

Nugget is a member and sells an air duct kit on the verandah - it's primarily intended to ensure the standard ducting is 100% sealed when fitting a snorkel, but IME it really improves intake airflow, which is apparently quite restricted in the Puma Defenders.

You can DIY your own solution - there's a thread or two on Defender2.Net - but Nuggets solution is a good option.

[justinc]

Hi Jason,

A BAS remap with EGR removal is the best mod IMO. The Nugget airbox mod is a very big improvement on a dodgy factory intake design, but unless you are considering fording big rivers or running at high boost levels all day in high ambients it isn't critical, along with the bigger IC.

OR, just Save your $, just start with the remap and EGR disable, do a Nugget intake mod ( Easy to fit etc by all accounts) and enjoy the increased driveability:)


JC

[newhue]

Save my dollars, huh. The card is a smouldering mess on the desk at the moment. Just finished ordering a Bell tune and a Alisport cooler.
I know the map will be good bang for buck, I am sceptical about a cooler but live in hope it will add to economy and better engine running in general.

As for Nugget's air box, I haven't actually seen one. But I disagree with JC a bit regarding the standard LR design. I think the way the head is designed is very clever. Encompassing a 15mm high lip on the barrel inside the head, and draws air from the rear and underneath makes it hard for all sots of crap to get in. The in built hi clone separates heavy particles, and there is also a small water sink at the base of the tube if any water may enter the system from the top. All I did to water proof it was pull it apart and liberally smother the joints with sensor safe silicone, no different than an aftermarket jobby.
If there is a failing that I see is the air box lid, a right PITA to undo and redo.

[justinc]

The design is fine for dirt ingress protection to a point, I was talking about flow at high demand, it is quite restrictive.

JC

[voltron]

I dont know much about Diesels but have owned Modified Single turbo'd, twin turbo'd 400kw at the wheel 6 cylinder Nissan sports cars. I can't see how an intercooler is going to give you much in the sense of power gains. IF anything a larger cooler can give a slower power response because of the larger volume of air required to fill it before it passes through, but unless you are running higher boost with a tune, I wouldnt bother with the cooler. I haven't even seen the size of the cooler in the car now or where it is placed, that sort of upgrade is generally done with a tune and significant boost pressure increase. Im sure it has been all done before and I may be wrong, but as you said 5% gains aren't worth the financial outlay.

Any power increase comes with it's shortcoming and I have learned if you want more power just get a donor and go for a bigger engine or stroke the engine you have out. Currently my daydreaming consist of the 3.2 ford ranger turbo diesel. Anything is possible.

Graham

[n plus one]

I dont know much about Diesels but have owned Modified Single turbo'd, twin turbo'd 400kw at the wheel 6 cylinder Nissan sports cars. I can't see how an intercooler is going to give you much in the sense of power gains. IF anything a larger cooler can give a slower power response because of the larger volume of air required to fill it before it passes through, but unless you are running higher boost with a tune, I wouldnt bother with the cooler. I haven't even seen the size of the cooler in the car now or where it is placed, that sort of upgrade is generally done with a tune and significant boost pressure increase. Im sure it has been all done before and I may be wrong, but as you said 5% gains aren't worth the financial outlay.

Any power increase comes with it's shortcoming and I have learned if you want more power just get a donor and go for a bigger engine or stroke the engine you have out. Currently my daydreaming consist of the 3.2 ford ranger turbo diesel. Anything is possible.

Graham

I primarily went for a bigger IC mainly for EGT reasons - though I don't have any direct evidence it helps, I have seen plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest it is likely to lower EGTs in a tuned Puma.

Hard to see how (at least in theory) a cooler denser intake charge would harm power output (lag issues aside) :confused:

[voltron]

I primarily went for a bigger IC mainly for EGT reasons - though I don't have any direct evidence it helps, I have seen plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest it is likely to lower EGTs in a tuned Puma.

Hard to see how (at least in theory) a cooler denser intake charge would harm power output (lag issues aside) :confused:

You are right, they would definately help for sure. Water sprays and the likes are also options people take to cool down intake air. A Snorkel would do wonders I imagine.

[Aaron]

Don't neglect the air intake though - its definitely the best bang for buck improvement

Can you elaborate on that?

[voltron]

Can you elaborate on that?

Cooler air is more dense or compressed, therefor you are essentially fitting more air inside a given area. More air+fuel = more power

When you are driving your car in winter or while its raining, you may notice
it runs better and has a bit more response and power.

I

[Naks]

Cooler air is more dense or compressed, therefor you are essentially fitting more air inside a given area. More air+fuel = more power

When you are driving your car in winter or while its raining, you may notice it runs better and has a bit more response and power.

I



You will actually notice the increased power in summer when ambient temps are very high. Compared to the OEM IC, the Alisport one cools the intake air more, this you will notice the diff when it's very hot ;)

[Samblers]

Save my dollars, huh. The card is a smouldering mess on the desk at the moment...

this made me laugh

[c.h.i.e.f]

BAS or Alive tune ?

[Gerokent]

Cool dense air is able to support more fuel bieng burnt which sometimes equates to an increase in power (or a longer power stroke in the case of electronic injection), where as hot air will support quicker and a more thourough (hotter) burn, hence moe power.
There a a lot of variables in the combustion process, but IMO the best thing to do is get the air in and exhaust out with as little restriction as possible.
A good "tuned" exhaust and match-ported intake is the place to start.

[pannawonica]

You will actually notice the increased power in summer when ambient temps are very high. Compared to the OEM IC, the Alisport one cools the intake air more, this you will notice the diff when it's very hot ;)

I do notice power fade when temperatures get well above 45c and I am in the process off ordering a chip tech intercooler.:BigThumb:

[newhue]

BAS or Alive tune ?

BAS. Pete a while ago gave me a very honest reply to what I was asking in a potential tune. He basically did himself out of a sale. The other never replied.
Alive also are a bit to blingy or racy for me. Or that's the way I perceive there marketing.

[newhue]

Cool dense air is able to support more fuel bieng burnt which sometimes equates to an increase in power (or a longer power stroke in the case of electronic injection), where as hot air will support quicker and a more thourough (hotter) burn, hence moe power.
There a a lot of variables in the combustion process, but IMO the best thing to do is get the air in and exhaust out with as little restriction as possible.
A good "tuned" exhaust and match-ported intake is the place to start.

Perhaps so, after all an engine is just one big compressor. But I'm basically happy with the standard 90Kw, so I wont know myself with the new amount. The tune is basically to knock off the Egr, and perhaps eliminate the immobiliser when travelling.

I have met a guy who claims by simply putting a 4" intake on his Tdi he produces quite a bit more power. We never got around to talking exhausts.
A Tdci runs a 2.75mm exhaust already. In my mind it has enough flow standard. As for mufflers and decat pipes I'm yet to be convinced. Well, more than 5% gain anyway.
I'm a plodder, I love how the Defer just slowly puts along. No rock throwing, no plumes of dust, or scrambling all that is inside. Just plods.

[c.h.i.e.f]

BAS. Pete a while ago gave me a very honest reply to what I was asking in a potential tune. He basically did himself out of a sale. The other never replied.
Alive also are a bit to blingy or racy for me. Or that's the way I perceive there marketing.

Hmmm interesting

[pannawonica]

Perhaps so, after all an engine is just one big compressor. But I'm basically happy with the standard 90Kw, so I wont know myself with the new amount. The tune is basically to knock off the Egr, and perhaps eliminate the immobiliser when travelling.

I have met a guy who claims by simply putting a 4" intake on his Tdi he produces quite a bit more power. We never got around to talking exhausts.
A Tdci runs a 2.75mm exhaust already. In my mind it has enough flow standard. As for mufflers and decat pipes I'm yet to be convinced. Well, more than 5% gain anyway.
I'm a plodder, I love how the Defer just slowly puts along. No rock throwing, no plumes of dust, or scrambling all that is inside. Just plods.

What I am about is efficiency, there are many factor involved. What I want to achieve is more km,s for my litre, I must agree there is not much point going beyond 15 percent larger than turbo outlet diameter. However the mid box is restrictive, the heat which retains is evident. The inlet side of things has quite some scope for improvement, me thinks nugget kit is just the ticket! The factory intercooler built to a price, adequate for European temperate climate, is found somewhat wanting here. I just want to plod on but with lower get,s and going the distance on every litre.:D:BigThumb:
H

[newhue]

What I am about is efficiency, there are many factor involved. What I want to achieve is more km,s for my litre, I must agree there is not much point going beyond 15 percent larger than turbo outlet diameter. However the mid box is restrictive, the heat which retains is evident. The inlet side of things has quite some scope for improvement, me thinks nugget kit is just the ticket! The factory intercooler built to a price, adequate for European temperate climate, is found somewhat wanting here. I just want to plod on but with lower get,s and going the distance on every litre.:D:BigThumb:
H

Yes it will be interesting, I find driving at 90km/h is as good as it gets. It's a gear ratio, aerodynamics, and weight thing. Well that was Pete's generalisation when I contacted him initially.

That is a very good point however regarding the intercooler. This was Pete's advice as well, tune or no tune.