Heat and Diesels

[Dave]

Dont know much about diesels (obviously). Last weekend in Brissy was ugly - 42 C and about 70% humidity. My 2.5 tdi was very sluggish up to Turbo time. Is that normal for these sorts of conditions? Is that why bigger intercoolers are better? Once weather cooled down a bit, everything seemed normal. Any comments?
Thanks
Dave

[one_iota]

Mine drives better in cooler weather and in the mornings.

They (whoever they are) say that the air is denser and therefore contains more oxygen.

I am interested in the larger intercooler idea.

Bring on the theories and hopefully some good practice.

[Jojo]

I didn't experience any problems. Is your air filter element clogged?

[VladTepes]

Can't say I noticed any dramas either.

About the bigger intercooler though.

People have said that large spotties have made no noticeble difference to the engine temps (apparently they don't restrict airflow like I thought they might), but wouldn't a larger intercooler block off more of the radiator from direct/cool air ?

Has anyone fitted a larger intercooler and what is your experience of it ?

[Emo]

Turbos in general hate hot and / or humid weather. The cooler the air, the more dense and the better the turbo likes it. That is why you see all these boy racer cars running large intercoolers, better performance out of their turbo.

[VladTepes]

Yeah but I'm wondering about the effect on engione cooling as intercooler is in front of radiator...

For someone that joined 5 months ago you must have a record low post count. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif

[Phoenix]

Not everyone is here all of the time.

Many people only check every mopnth or so, others weekly.

Many only come here when they have a problem, or only post when they see a question to which they know the answer.

Only 20% of the people here have even made a post, 80% have never said anything.

[VladTepes]

Fair enough, too.

The more people with answers, the better !

[Dave]

Thanks guys. My aircleaner is fine. The reason I rasied the intercooler issue is from other applicatios. I am into drag racing as well as 4wd's. While I am not into turbo 4 cylinders (aka rice burners), I have a number of friends who are. To gain max HP they use bigger intercoolers. They claim the benefit of these are that cooler air builds HP. I know this to be the fact from normal aspirated petrol race motors - significant differences in performance between 15C and 30C. My understanding on the "air blockage"issue is that the intercoolers that are placed in front of the radiators do not hinder airflow enough to cause problems. I guess the air flows straight through them. My problem definitely seemed to be heat related. After thse temps dropped verything went back to normal. Oh well, who knows!
cheers
Dave in Brissy (much cooler now)

[Bushie]

Originally posted by VladTepes
Yeah but I'm wondering about the effect on engione cooling as intercooler is in front of radiator...



Description
The intercooler is a separate aluminium unit, located
on the LH side of the engine compartment adjacent to
the radiator, sharing the same upper and lower
mountings. (From the 300Tdi manual)

The one in front will be the aircon condensor


Bushie

[duff]

My td5 is two differant beasts depending on where I am. When im here on the cape york she is definately down on power and uses more fuel per km(and not just the dirt legs) :? . Down in adelaide during winter its like getting into a completely differant car. definately noticeable thru the seat of the pants, and over two trips now, the fuel records show a consistant trend (about 2.5 lts per hundred better down south) style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif . The top speed is definately higher in south australia (I checked this both trips to see availiable horse power) crude method, but it is indicative. :oops:...Another noticeable characteristic is that up here in the north she always hunts at idle( audilble and observed on the tacho) and tends to smoke black alot more at idle and initial acceleration
I almost wonder if landrover could offer more choice of ECU's to australians, (i dont know the relevance to engine tune ,,but,,)I believe differant countrys have differant spec ECU's and in a country that goes from 250%(well you know) humidity at 35 degrees to very cool dry conditions down south, I would have thought that the one ECU choice couldnt be ideal.
this is done fairly heavily loaded on these trips so perhaps the engine is more sensitive to conditions as it is not just loping along.
If I was not saying this myself,,,, it would seem exagerative to me ,,,,but I kid you not,, it is that noticeable.
And about the intercooler bit,, from what i understand ??? :? the availiable capacity to cool with the water system is much greater than the increased cooling air tmp flow over the radiator,,,or you have #*%tloads of tolerance left in your modern cooling systems so the increased benefit of cooling your intake air is easily compensated for by the cooling abilities of the oil and water systems.......(could someone explain to me what im trying to say)TIC.

[Turtle61]

Guys,

It is failry simple physics regarding temerature of gases - as you probably recall from highschool ( those who left and have not yet forgotten and those who have finished) that gasses occupy more volume at higher temperatures BUT the quatity of particles/atoms remains the same. So, combustion engine performance, esp diesel, would be based on volume of air pumped/sucked into the cylinders. At higher temps volume will be the same however number of "usable" oxygen atoms will be decreased. I would be inclined to think the difference in performance will be similar unless the intercooler/turbo system has been setup for high temperatures in the first place.... another Land Rover classic :wink:

Now, my Turtle ( 1961 Series II 88 2.25 diesel) works fine at under most conditions HOWEVER on the trip up to Cape York (2000) I have noticed that after sunset and in cooler areas the speed would increase by about 5 miles per hour compared to full sun hot highway work...

That's my two Swiss Centimes worth

-- Irek [:]O#O[:] 1961 Series 2 88 Diesel "The Turtle" & 1998 Freelander Diesel

[VladTepes]

Originally posted by Bushie
The one in front will be the aircon condensor


I don't half feel stupid :oops:

At least I'm used to it

[crawfy]

Interesting to note!!! I just installed a Safari Intercooler system to my 300tdi and I can tell ypou that over the last two day's here in Adelaide the Temp has pushed 40" each day and I have noticed a vast improvement in both Fuel economy and speed!! So I would tend to agree that installing a larger intercooler works!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I tend to agree with Duff though when I was runnin the old girl with the standard intercooler she would be a pig at temps above 30' anything below that she seemed to be fine!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So my opinion if it's worth anything is shop around or do what I did and found an interccoler from a wrecked unit and install and see the difference!!!!!!!
regards
Crawfy
SIIA88 & 97 300TDI Disco

[VladTepes]

Safari intercoller kit ? What's it usually fitted to / what did you get it from...

Is it a simple bolt up fit (for a 200Tdi ?) that I could do myself ?

Tell me more, oh sage one... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[crawfy]

Picked up the Intercooler cheap threw a mate who works in a wrecking yard, a 300 tdi came in with the system fitted, he rang me saying they had picked it up and if there was anything I needed I could have it a resonable cost!!!! When I went to look at the vehicle the first thing I noticed was the funny looking metal hoses to the intercooler!!!!!! on inspection I found that the inetrcooler had been replaced with a larger unit and stronger hoses!!!!! So I think to myself I gotta have this !!!!! 8)
So we agreed on a price!!!!!!!!!!! I can't say too much here but it was a carton of Coopers Sparkling Ale ( Long Necks) and a couple of $$ Bucks.
It's not what you know but who you know!!!! So sorry I can't tell you the retail cost but it wouldn't be cheap!!!!!!!!!!!!
Another mate of mine butchered a unit out of another 4wd for his 200tdi I'll ring him tonight and find out, not sure but I think it was from current Toyota don't hold me to it but it cost him around $600.00 after all said and done?
regards
Crawfy
SIIA88 & 97 300TDI Disco

[one_iota]

Good oil Crawfy,

Reading LRE forum there is some tweaking that can be done to the 300tdi that can boost performance but the larger intercooler would be of help in keeping the EGT (exhaust gas temperature) within the safe range.

[LandyAndy]

Hi Guys
Here is an idea I saw on a "burnout comp car" that I thought was a brilliant idea and would be worth trying.This was an old celica and when it went on the dyno was pushing out 275hp at the back wheels!!
They had 4 reticulation fittings spraying a fine mist of water over the intercooler.This would be easy to set up,you could use a large washer bottle and have an electric switch fitted to the throttle so it only worked when needed,ie when you have your boot stuck into her.It is all to do with air density as mentioned in previous posts,the cooler the air the denser it is and thus contains more oxygen.
I have intended to make this setup for my bitsamissin tritoo but havent got there yet.
I also have picked up a watercooled intercooler off someting Toyota Twin Turbo for $20 from a swapmeet.Would probably work well with an air to air intercooler if placed between the turbo and main intercooler.Im sure it would reduce the air temp considerably before going into the air to air intercooler.The beauty of this one is it is small,probably 400x200 mm and has radiator water circulating thru it.Just need to nut out how to fit it into the system.
If you go to a jap motor importer they bring in a huge range of intercoolers.An air to air intercooler that is mounted at the top of the motor on a mitsabitchy or nissin then routed into your normal intercooler would also work well.(you would need a japper style bonnet scoop though)
If you can get the intake air temp down you safely lift the boost pressure alltough an exhaust gas temp gauge would be needed to prevent piston melting temps.
Cheers
Andrew

[crawfy]

Hi all style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif I'm a bit reluctant to start tweaking the 300tdi, I read the same Post at LRE and downloaded some stuff, then spoke to a mate who is a Diesel Mech, and I came to the conclusion, it would be cheaper to do what I have done than to do major damage to the engine and injection system!!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif I would rather play around with the intercooler than rebuild the engine!!!!! or Turbo that is!!! I have been really surprised at how different the Disco has been in the hot weather since installing the intercooler!!!!!! So look at this before tweaking the Tdi, I'm no expert and I don't profess to be!!!!!! I've learn't the hard way and I am sure many other at this forum have also.!!! So the more info you can get the better decision you will make!!!! 8)
Regards
Crawfy

SIIA88 & 97 300tdi Disco