wheel brace

[Deanslost]

My new/old 1985 county 110 came with a wheel brace that has a hinge in the middle. it looks to be designed so you cant over tighten the wheel nuts but when undoing them you fold the handle out for double the leverage. I have 33" tyres and I had two freshly painted wheels with new tyres come loose today. I have never had wheel nuts come loose on any other vehicle. Is it possible the bigger than standard wheels and tyres require tighter wheel nuts ? or could the fresh paint on the nut binding surface have allowed enough play for this to happen ? I will be keeping a close eye on it but any input would be appreciated.

Thanks
Dean

[Don 130]

Did you tighten them to the correct torque setting? For the original rims supplied with the vehicle, I believe the setting is 170Nm or 125lbft
Probably a good place to start next time.

[Leigh 110]

when in doubt, go FT......F*&kin Tight

[Deanslost]

Thanks Don,
I have been looking for a comprehensive service manual for this type of info. but as yet I have not found one for my year model. I have seen the manuals in the files section. But I cannot see a complete manual so to speak.

Will break out the torque wrench tomorrow.

[Deanslost]

Leigh,
F*&kin tight is relative when you only have half the leverage.
In the past with a fixed wheel brace F*&kin tight has been enough.
But as mentioned above I will unwrap the torque wrench tomorrow.

Thanks
Dean

[2stroke]

Thick paint can cause this, are they the same rims just painted? Usually the paint sort of crushes off where the nuts contact the wheel, sometimes on the back where the paint is against the hub as well.
My Rangie had a folding wheelbrace, Defender is one piece, never used a torque wrench.:)

[oldyella 76]

Will probably be the paint if the centres are ok. Clean the paint off the mating surfaces before putting them on. I have seen truck wheels come off after being painted.
Lindsay

[JDNSW]

Likely causes of wheel nuts coming loose -

1. Paint or dirt on the wheel holes or mating surface on the back of the wheel, especially thick, incompletely cured paint.

2. Nuts not moving freely on the threads - clean threads and use antiseize or grease.

3. Nuts not tight enough or unevenly tightened.

Note that loose nuts on the RH side of the vehicle will normally tighten (unless they are binding on the thread or have reached the end of the usable thread), whereas on the LH side they will loosen further.

I doubt increasing the wheel size to 33 will be have any significant effect.

John

[Deanslost]

Thanks guys

[n plus one]

Thanks Don,
I have been looking for a comprehensive service manual for this type of info. but as yet I have not found one for my year model. I have seen the manuals in the files section. But I cannot see a complete manual so to speak.

Will break out the torque wrench tomorrow.

And remember never to lubricate threads when using a torque wrench - you'll get false readings (unless the manual specs are for lubed threads).

[steveG]

And remember never to lubricate threads when using a torque wrench - you'll get false readings (unless the manual specs are for lubed threads).

While I agree in theory, specified torque settings are for threads in good condition and nice and clean.
On a 4wd that gets used offroad its practically impossible to maintain thread condition unless you lube them with something to prevent them rusting.

IMO, the danger with using a torque wrench on less than perfect threads is that they will usually end up under-torqued.
I've seen quite a few "torqued up dry" wheel nuts come loose, and when you do them by hand you know why. They quickly go from zero to full torque and you know they are binding/sticking and not actually putting the required tension on the threads.

Although I have torque wrenches, I've never used them on landy wheel nuts. My method is grease them, tighten by hand, and check regularly.

Back to the original post though, the wheel brace that came with my 1985 County had the 2 halves welded together. Suggest you do the same and just go easy on the tightening..
As others have said, most likely paint is your current issue.

Steve

[lewy]

I had one of those in the old 93 disco,like its made for left hand threaded nuts.great for undoing but noy doing up as it was to short.Actually i probably pinched it from the county

[jimr1]

Hi Dean , can I give you a tip . Keep your wheel studs lightly coated with grease . If you don't have one buy your self a nice 1/2 drive breaker bar they don't cost a fortune and will last you years and years , also buy a socket that fits your wheel nuts I think they are 1.1/4 I have had mine for over 30 years ,there will be a metric socket , someone on here will tell you the size , I know there is a torque setting , I have never used one on wheel nuts , I have owned many Land Rovers over the last 40 years and never had a wheel come off . You get to know when a nut is tight enough , don't be frightened you can do them up tight without jumping on them . I hope this helps . jimr1:)

[JDNSW]

And remember never to lubricate threads when using a torque wrench - you'll get false readings (unless the manual specs are for lubed threads).

As far as I know, all torque specs are for lubricated threads, even if this is not specified - friction from unlubricated threads is totally unpredictable.

John

[n plus one]

As far as I know, all torque specs are for lubricated threads, even if this is not specified - friction from unlubricated threads is totally unpredictable.

John

In my experience, the opposite is almost always the case ie a dry torque figure. Lubricants have differing friction effects too, so you'd need to spec lube type as well.

A wire brush, a bit of rag and some brake cleaner will get your threads nice and clean.

Having said that, it's not like Deefer wheels studs are a particularly tension sensitive bolt in the big scheme of things...

[Red County]

also buy a socket that fits your wheel nuts I think they are 1.1/4 I have had mine for over 30 years ,there will be a metric socket , someone on here will tell you the size ,



On my 85 county the metric size is 27mm, it came with a half inch drive 5/8-W impact socket that fits nicely too. I'm assuming that they are the original wheel nuts.

[Red County]

Oops, did something wrong with the quote above, top line above from jimr1's post higher up the page.

[ATH]

Recently I had the wheels rotated and balanced by Diffens in Joondalup and found the vehicle was shaking when at about 95kph. Back I went and they rebalanced the rears only as there was no vibrations through the steering wheel.
Then when down at Callcup the other weekend I noticed some nuts had been really badly trashed as if the rattle gun had been forced on before it was stopped.
Back to Diffs and the boss gave me a cheque for 3 new nuts to replace the worst ones.
When I attempted to remove the nuts I bent the LR spanner they were so tight. Back to Diffs and (this is actually the second time I've had to go back there for nuts being too tight to undo) they immediately removed all nuts and re-torqued them by hand.
Apparently the yob that stuffed it up is now an ex employee....
That's the last time I go there as it's just not good enough, what if we'd been in the bush somewhere and needed to remove a wheel? They can't always blame new staff, maybe they should try some training not just shove a rattle gun in their hands and leave them to it.
AlanH.

[JDNSW]

Wheel nut size for Series 3 and 90/110/Defender is 27mm. (1 1/8" I think fits)

John

[jimr1]

Hi Alan , I was with a mate years ago and the same happened to him , his wheels had been put on with a rattle gun , Went to change a wheel with the Land Rover wheel brace , we could not get the wheel nuts undone , we're both plumbers and know what tight nuts can be like , the brace was twisting even with a tube run down the shaft , So there were two things against us , Nuts to tight , poor quality wheel brace , we both learned a lesson that day good quality breaker bar , and socket plus keep control of your own wheel nuts .:)

[Deanslost]

So Ive been checking them after every drive and so far so good I think it was the paint. I managed to find and download that comprehensive service manual I was looking for, Man that thing is huge. Many hours of fun right there.
Thanks
Dean

[debruiser]

And remember never to lubricate threads when using a torque wrench - you'll get false readings (unless the manual specs are for lubed threads).

Very interesting, I didnt' know that. Although now I think about it I guess it would give a different reading, because of the coefficient of friction.

[Loubrey]

First thing to buy for new Defender owners - 27mm socket and the longest bar they can find save storage for in the car (doesn't help when its back home!).

The Land Rover wheel brace actually damages the OEM wheel nuts, especially for the large number of daily drives - don't do off road - ones out there these days. It obviously works well enough as it has been for the past 65 odd years, but not everything that 65 years old work great...

Something else to remember - OEM wheel nuts fit on no other wheel other than OEM alloys. Even ZU alloys which are mean to use the OEM nuts are better served with aftermarket "solid" nuts without the shiny chrome dome.

Cheers,

Lou




Wheel nut size for Series 3 and 90/110/Defender is 27mm. (1 1/8" I think fits)

John