Noisy 3.5

[xstriple]

Well that was another bloody waste of time.

Trying to cure (supposedly) noisy lifter/rocker problem, new lifters, rockers and shafts,, still the same :(.

Next, I know there's little to no cam retention other than chain tension. I have noticed it's a new timing set (alloy aftermarket I suspect).
I spose the next thing is to re-check that.

Damn money pit.
Not happy Jan

[Mick_Marsh]

Money pit!
Trade it in on an old Merc. Money pit by orders of magnitude.
There is another recent thread on a noisy 3.5 somewhere on here. Find that an have a read.
I recently changed oil in mine to 10W-50 semi synthetic. The main noticeable difference it made was it became rattly at idle. What oil are you running and when did you last change it?

[xstriple]

Money pit!
Trade it in on an old Merc. Money pit by orders of magnitude.
There is another recent thread on a noisy 3.5 somewhere on here. Find that an have a read.
I recently changed oil in mine to 10W-50 semi synthetic. The main noticeable difference it made was it became rattly at idle. What oil are you running and when did you last change it?

Nah, it's not an oil issue Mick, new and heavier.
I suspect the timing gear/chain.

[xstriple]

Can anyone tell me what year D1 they started putting camshaft retaining plates in?
Or anyone with a buggered 3.9 I could nick one from? :)

[BigJon]

Or anyone with a buggered 3.9 I could nick one from? :)

I might have one, will check for you.

[xstriple]

Gidday John, I find myself in Adelaide and was wondering if you happenned across a camm retaining plate in your travels?
Cheers, Chris

[PhilipA]

AFAIR you need to have a camshaft with a machined front surface for a cam retaining plate. Most don't.
The answer for a 3.5 is usually a cam teflon button that screws in the thread at the end of the cam and you trial fit until you have a small clearance.

IMHO if you have a new cam that has correct slope on the lobes you do not need a button or plate, but maybe an aftermarket cam has been made without the correct slope for lifter rotation.
Regards Philip A

[bee utey]

I had a look at my spare 3.9 block and it doesn't run a cam retainer plate. I suspect its only fitted to serpentine belt engines as on all the earlier engines the load of the oil pump drive should keep the cam firmly against the block.

[bee utey]

I have stripped the front off a stuffed 4.0 and it has a cam retainer plate but the cam front section is very different. No way it would fit a stock 3.5. Do the button on the front trick if you need end float control.

[loanrangie]

I wasnt aware the rover V8 used a retainer of any kind, i do know Buick used a teflon/nylon button with a spring that ran on the back of the timing cover.

[Roverlord off road spares]

Did you replace the cam? fitting new rockers, shafts etc and using an old cam

[xstriple]

Yep, cam is replacement.
PhilipA, from what I can remember re-end of cam it ha the oilpump drive bolted there.

[gazby]

The noise you are chasing is not a slipped cylinder liner is it ?
I remember hearing a noise in a 3.5 RRC engine some years ago that sounded like "valve train" but turned out to be a loose liner, after much stuffing about looking in the "obvious" areas. The 3.5 has a bit of a history of slipping liners.

[loanrangie]

Was the lifter pre load adjusted for the new cam/ lifters etc ?

[xstriple]

I thought the 3.5 was the least prone to liner slippage Gaz, and seeing the deck I could not see how it could rattle, but I may be mistaken.
I heard heard/read lots of lifter pre-load adjustment but have yet to find a. shims or b. definitive reasons why (as lifters are operating within range, hydrolic lifters are quite accommodating) it would be so.
Currently thus is what has been replaced,
cam/bearings/lifters,
rockers/shaft,
valves,
timing chain/gear.
I am at a loss.
Cold it sounds really good but by the first corner after startup the rattle starts and stays, under load it's a little less but that might be because of other noise.
As has been said cam end float but timing chain and oil pump would stop that.
It is spoiling a great car as Im over it and run out of "chasing"money.

[bee utey]

The 3.5 engine is certainly not immune to slipped liners. Not that I've seen one but I once had a 4.4 come in with a loose liner and it sounded absolutely terrible once warmed up. Cold, no noise. The 4.4's loose liner happened to be at the cylinder with the brake vacuum port so I could drop a hose in a cup of water and chill that cylinder. The noise would temporarily abate and return some seconds after the cooling stopped.

The most economical fix would be to pick up a cheap second hand 3.5 and bung it in. Fixing one liner on them would be dearer than getting another engine.

[d@rk51d3]

I wasnt aware the rover V8 used a retainer of any kind

They were fitted to the interim 38a updated engines, and upwards.

[xstriple]

Thanks B, but I built the motor and I couldn't even see how it could slip let alone rattle,,and I didn't see any past evidence of it happening.
BUT, previous owner did rebuild the engine, ran it, then pulled it down again so anything is possible.
On another issue B,,what type of mixture controller would you recommend to economise lpg consumption?

[bee utey]

Thanks B, but I built the motor and I couldn't even see how it could slip let alone rattle,,and I didn't see any past evidence of it happening.
BUT, previous owner did rebuild the engine, ran it, then pulled it down again so anything is possible.
On another issue B,,what type of mixture controller would you recommend to economise lpg consumption?

Liners don't need much clearance to move, they aren't clamped by the head gasket so even 0.010" is enough. That's why top hat liners are so much better.

As for LPG controllers, I use ones made by Gore Research (http://www.gore-research.com.au/lpg-cng-autogas-electronics-products.html), but they do require a little mod to get the best out of them. I fit a microswitch to the plenum to cut off the mixture control at full throttle.

[warnie100]

Idont know if this could help but I was reading pommie forum and they were talking about piston liner slap being a problem and sounds just like lifter noise hope this is of some use

[PhilipA]

PhilipA, from what I can remember re-end of cam it ha the oilpump drive
bolted there.

No there is a threaded hole in the end .
Google page 43 of "how to Power tune Rover V8 engines" . you can read it on line.
Regards Philip A

[xstriple]

Well I found another thing that it is'nt!
Put 1.6mm packers under the rocker posts to compensate for skimming the heads and using tin gaskets.
No change.
Back to ideas section( drawing board).

[xstriple]

Can anyone enlighten me as to the teflon button fix to excessive cam end float?
Where can I get one?
Cheers!!

[xstriple]

Here's where I'm at.

Deduced from various thread what it may be.
I remember from the rebuild that it had a new dual row timing set. Not good.
Also I remember scratches on the inside of the timing cover which I couldn't work out.
Im thinking still cam end float. But changing back to stock timing set might fix the damn noise!
Cheers

[PhilipA]

Or you could measure up and grind some material from the tube that the distributor shaft runs in.

Regards Philip A