Trial complete: electric vehicles can work in Australia

[WhiteD3]

An interesting read. Nice to get some facts for a change.

Trial complete: electric vehicles can work in Australia (http://theconversation.com/trial-complete-electric-vehicles-can-work-in-australia-18843)

[benji]

The range is still the limiting factor. I think whoever did that study is out of touch.
We did 500km over the weekend..... then what?

Sent from my GT-I9305T using AULRO mobile app

[bee utey]

The range is still the limiting factor. I think whoever did that study is out of touch.
We did 500km over the weekend..... then what?

Sent from my GT-I9305T using AULRO mobile app

Take the other car? Not the short range car? Stuff a 3kVA genny in the boot? Y'know, some people manage to run out of fuel in their 500km+ enabled fossil cars. It's all about the ability to plan your trip in the most convenient way. Some people just can't manage planning ahead.

[phibbzy]

Telsla in the US has actually built a system of charging points around the car sales.

Apparently if you buy the larger battery version for their Model S (I think?) you get free charges for the life of the vehicle.

It's a smart concept. Someone has to put the infrastructure in & when it comes to a 500km range, most standard vehicles have a range of about this - and battery technology is rapidly evolving...

Providing we still have a choice between dinosaur & electrickery I see it as an exciting prospect...

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Did you actually read the subtext of the study? It should be titled: EV cars can work in Australia ..... IF THE GOVERNMENT SPENDS MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO HARD WIRE THOUSANDS OF EV CHARGING STATIONS and worker behaviour changes to allow EV charging breaks when workers can move EV on an off charging stations if and when available.

....
Providing we still have a choice between dinosaur & electrickery I see it as an exciting prospect...it is still a case of chicken and egg. Until people buy EV, the charging infrastructure won't be installed but people wont buy EV until the charging infrastructure is available, It comes back to the Government paying for a pink batts charging stations roll out and without the charging infrastructure at people's place of work we'll still be using dinosaurs to charge the EV from the grid at home overnight.

[PhilipA]

I would love to have an electric vehicle to run around day to day.

BUT human behaviour is that they hate to lose a barrow load of money.

Prius already offer the next best thing to electric motoring but have NO resale value ie people will not buy them with their own money. I sometimes look and see how cheap they are and then think , hmm maybe but then NAAH.

IMHO the fear is that the battery pack will die and the buyer wil be faced with a $5000 plus outlay or a completely useless sculpture in the garage.

This is despite a fantastic record AFAIK with taxi use over 10 years in Townsville with almost no battery failures.

So while they are technically viable, unless some insurance company or the government will insure against battery failure for the life of ownership I cannot see people buying them, let alone the charging issue.
And of course they are horrendously expensive compared to a primitive old tech internal combustion engine .
Regards Philip A

[VladTepes]

An electric 4wd would be AWESOME (if the range issues could be addressed).

Individual motors for each wheel - traction control par excellence.
Masses of torque available.
Can't stall the engine....

Would (or ratherm, could) be a Weapon !!!!

[SuperMono]

So while they are technically viable, unless some insurance company or the government will insure against battery failure for the life of ownership I cannot see people buying them, let alone the charging issue.
And of course they are horrendously expensive compared to a primitive old tech internal combustion engine .
Regards Philip A

A potential way around some of the battery failure concerns is to lease the battery rather than buy it outright.
The current price imbalance is partly volume of manufacture related, low volume generally costs more.

The Petrol/Electric hybrids (like Prius) have to be the most expensive way to build a vehicle, 2 motors, batteries, complex transmissions and electronics with everything compromised.

I could easily live with a 135km range for my regular commuting without any need to charge during the day. My charging would be overnight so needs additional renewable generation available (solar thermal, wind, wave).
I already run to a household of more vehicles than people, so swapping one for electric would be viable given the appropriate vehicle (not a weird Mitsubishi) with a bit of character and fun. Maybe a secondhand Tesla Roadster when the price bottoms out.

[Homestar]

Remember when LPG was first introduced? I do. There was only one refilling place in a 100KM radius of where we lived. I remember my Dad and his mates saying it would never take off as there are no places to refill. How wrong they were.

The economics of going to electric will soon become worth while and the infrastructure will eventually follow. Maybe not as fast or wide spread as LPG, but I think there is a market there. Most people travel less than 70KM each way to work anyway, so as a commuter vehicle they make a lot of sense.

[PhilipA]

If they ever got down to comparable prices as petrol vehicles.

GM has just abandoned Lithium batteries and gone back to Lead Acid for the Volt, so maybe there are some new tech breakthroughs in lead acid.

Remember the government virtually gave away LPG conversions for many years and that there is a real cost of operation advantage.

Yet Ford sold hardly any LPG only Falcons even with operating cost advantage and a wide network.

Regards Philip A

[benji]

The infrastructure may catchup, but it'll only take off in Australia if recharge times reduce drastically. Maybe super capacitors are the way to go.

For mainstream second car use though it would mean our power bills go up immensely; not from the power consumption but by further 'gold plating' of the line system; as people will still need to charge their cars on 40+ days.

For us though, we're a single car family, so unless they are capable of a 1000km per day as we do on occasion, and I can fix it myself...... it's not viable.


Also, a winch can draw 400 amp.... what then :eek:
Sent from my GT-I9305T using AULRO mobile app

[TheTree]

HI

BMW have an interesting approach

"For those that don't believe the range is ample, BMW offers an interesting option. Unlike other automakers, who have kept models strictly electric or strictly hybrid, BMW is hedging its bets with the i3. In addition to the all-electric version, buyers can choose to equip the i3 with a 34-hp 650cc range-extending two-cylinder engine, essentially turning the car into a Volt-like series hybrid. That engine will not power the wheels but will serve strictly as a back-up power reserve, adding range and versatility. BMW says that the range extender, which has a fuel capacity of 2.4 gal, roughly doubles the car's range, which still falls well short of a traditional gasoline car. More important than outright range, however, is the fact that, with the range extender, drivers can refuel at gas stations rather than having to find an electrical charge station. Gas stations are far more readily available than charge stations and also provide quicker refueling."


BMW introduces the i3 electric car with optional range-extending engine (http://www.gizmag.com/bmw-i3-electric-car/28503/)


Steve

[TheTree]

Hi

Of course we could all save our pennies for one of these :cool:

FIRST HYBRID RANGE ROVER MODELS TACKLE EPIC (http://www.landrover.com/gl/en/lr/about-land-rover/news-overview/silk-trail/)

Steve

[goingbush]

https://www.google.com.au/#q=ev+generator+trailer&safe=off

[Jitterbug]

As a multiple car household and living in the city, I could definately see a place for an electric car in my garage. Untill things change drastically it could never be my only car.

I remeber reading somewhere that BWM would offer a number of days inclusive rental of an X3 or X5 for those trips where a small electric wouldnt cut it.

I would also have no problem converting my old 90 to electric in the future. It has a 350 chev and 45l fuel tank so the range wouldnt get any worse!

[PhilipA]

Of course we could all save our pennies for one of these

Of course about 0.1% will ever leave the congestion tax area of London, as that is what they are designed for.
All the testing is just to convince the bankers how adventurous they are by buying one to drive from Sloan Square to Piccadilly.
Regards Philip A

[SuperMono]

Driving around Kangaroo Island recently and was surprised to see electric vehicle charge points around the place.
Turns out you can hire the Nissan Leaf vehicles on KI.
I don't think you could then tour the whole island in the EV, but if you were just sticking around the Eastern side you would probably be OK.

[p38newbie]

An electric 4wd would be AWESOME (if the range issues could be addressed).

Individual motors for each wheel - traction control par excellence.
Masses of torque available.
Can't stall the engine....

Would (or ratherm, could) be a Weapon !!!!
check this hybrid out genny to charge as you drive and 4x4 and power out lets to run 240v
VIA Motors | Extended-Range Electric Truck 402HP/100mpg (http://www.viamotors.com/vehicles/electric-truck/)

[goingbush]

The all electric 4x4 Bremach t-Rex 6.0 ton has been on the market in USA for some time Bremach Motors USA, electric truck (http://www.bremachusa.com/electric.html)

it also comes in 6.5L V8

[austastar]

The present registration system, where you rent each of your vehicle's access to the roads with an annual fee on each, has just got to go before alternative second vehicles will really become the norm.

GPS position/tracks, e-tags, time/congestion loadings will have to be coordinated to get rid of the dinosaur legacy system we have inherited.

cheers

[Tombie]

Until there's nuclear power to generate the smoke in the wires, and until the range is 1,000km+ I doubt they'll take off in a big way.

A "swap-n-go" battery system may go a long way to sorting this out...

But on some trips I drive to the city, do 200km and drive home - that's 1000km in a day.

No time to wait 3.5 hours for a zap!

[Blknight.aus]

If they ever got down to comparable prices as petrol vehicles.

GM has just abandoned Lithium batteries and gone back to Lead Acid for the Volt, so maybe there are some new tech breakthroughs in lead acid.

Remember the government virtually gave away LPG conversions for many years and that there is a real cost of operation advantage.

Yet Ford sold hardly any LPG only Falcons even with operating cost advantage and a wide network.

Regards Philip A

I suspect that it's because Lithium batteries are still an evolving technology where as all the foibles of lead acid is well and truely sorted...

and the next generation of batteries that going to replace lithium is just round the corner and if the whispers are tauted to pack a similar energy density to the lithium but have better heat and charging characteristics.

IM giving some very erious consideration to doing an electric conversion on fozzy for his next eoulion using a small air cooled diesel to extend the range or provide extra go when needed most

[loanrangie]

The all electric 4x4 Bremach t-Rex 6.0 ton has been on the market in USA for some time Bremach Motors USA, electric truck (http://www.bremachusa.com/electric.html)

it also comes in 6.5L V8

Was that copied off the Iveco daily ? site still says they are not available yet.

[Mick_Marsh]

As a multiple car household and living in the city, I could definately see a place for an electric car in my garage. Untill things change drastically it could never be my only car.
Ditto.
A fellow I know just bought a Tesla.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/02/134.jpg (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/mick_marsh_AULRO/media/David%20Calleja%20Memorial%20Car%20Show/2015/DSC_4790.jpg.html)
It is a really nice car. I mean really, really nice.
He bought it to use around town. With regenerative breaking, it will perform that function marvelously. It's got most of the traveling requirements covered but traveling interstate, as I often do, the range falls rather short.

[loanrangie]

The Tesla has just about got it right, i dont understand why they havent fitted a generator into each front hub and solar panel into the roof ?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using AULRO mobile app

[Mick_Marsh]

The Tesla has just about got it right, i dont understand why they havent fitted a generator into each front hub and solar panel into the roof ?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using AULRO mobile app
I hear they are already developing a wind turbine for the aerial.
http://assets.skiptomylou.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/patriotic-pinwheel.jpg

[loanrangie]

It'll be made in mehico though.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using AULRO mobile app

[Mick_Marsh]

The electric vehicle revolution will bring problems of its own - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-17/electric-cars-no-silver-bullet/9667516)

[goingbush]

MOST Australians have a daily commute less than 35km even in regional areas,
NO new infrastructure needed, charge at home.

https://bitre.gov.au/publications/2015/files/is_073.pdf

[Homestar]

MOST Australians have a daily commute less than 35km even in regional areas,
NO new infrastructure needed, charge at home.

https://bitre.gov.au/publications/2015/files/is_073.pdf

Agreed, and this would work for SWMBO almost all of the time and I'd love to be able to buy here one, but she does make the odd big trip too, so having one would mean we'd still need a convensional vehicle. For example, a trip in 2weeks time will see me taking the van around 300KM behind the Hilux and SWMBO is meeting me there the next day for a couple of nights before driving home - I hear what everyone is about to say about charging it while we are there, but we won't be near a powerpoint - about 20KM from one, so in that scenario, we'd have to faff around for most of a day to make that work and for a 2 night excursion, that is hardly practical. It's not the only situation she would encounter that wouldn't work either. If you only have a car to commute in, then 100% I'd go for it. People will bring up the 'you're just charging it with dirty fossil fuels anyway at home' argument but doing this produces only 45% of the emmissions than burning petrol to do the same job, so while not perfect, it is a good start and heaps cleaner than burning dinosuars directly in the vehicle.

When I can buy an electric car that can get a GENUINE (not factory rated as they are miles off with their estimates) 600 to 700KM on a charge and cost the same as a fossile fuel guzzler, I'm there. Not sure when that will happen but I bet my next car for her in around 3 1/2 years time will still be petrol. Maybe the one 5 years after that, or the one 5 years after that, but I doubt it to be honest. I think Hydrogen makes more sense in the long run, battery tech is near it's limit, so there won't be 'the next big thing' here - Lithium is about the most reactive element that can be used in a battery and you can see that these themselves have stability issues if not correctly cared for. I think electric tech is brilliant, but on its own, it isn't the magic bullet people think it is. It can't solve everything.

[goingbush]

To put it into perspective

I thought I drove the Lightweight a lot , I did 800km in the 12 months since I got it registered , it worked out at 15L/100km , using the average petrol price of $1.30 per L = $19.50 per 100km = $19,500 100,000km

It cost me approx $20,000 to convert it .

Since I completed it, I do all my daily local driving in it , have done 1500km in 2 months , Its just so easy & enjoyable to drive now & its free, I use it for everything local.

at the rate of 750km a month I'll do 100,000km in 133 months or 11 years , so 11 years to break even , thats if the petrol price stays at $1.30

the batteries are good for 3000 charge cycles = 300,000km or 10,000 charge cycles if depth of discharge is reduced by 20% = 800,000km , thats a lot of free motoring after the conversion pays for itself at 100,000km

but its really a moot argument because most of us will probably all be driving electric before my conversion pays for itself.

[Mick_Marsh]

To put it into perspective

I thought I drove the Lightweight a lot , I did 800km in the 12 months since I got it registered , it worked out at 15L/100km , using the average petrol price of $1.30 per L = $19.50 per 100km = $19,500 100,000km

It cost me approx $20,000 to convert it .

Since I completed it, I do all my daily local driving in it , have done 1500km in 2 months , Its just so easy & enjoyable to drive now & its free, I use it for everything local.

at the rate of 750km a month I'll do 100,000km in 133 months or 11 years , so 11 years to break even , thats if the petrol price stays at $1.30

the batteries are good for 3000 charge cycles = 300,000km or 10,000 charge cycles if depth of discharge is reduced by 20% = 800,000km , thats a lot of free motoring after the conversion pays for itself at 100,000km

but its really a moot argument because most of us will probably all be driving electric before my conversion pays for itself.
And when you charge it, is the power you use to charge it free?
Where do you get this free power from?

[Homestar]

And when you charge it, is the power you use to charge it free?
Where do you get this free power from?

Solar. 😉

[goingbush]

Yes I have a 5kw solar system that is generating electricity all the time during daylight hours . We get sun here pretty much all year long .

The onboard charger 3.3kw . So even when the car is charging there still left over solar power & I only need to charge once every few days . So yes it free .

If I did not have solar it works out at $3.50 per 100km from AGL instead of $19.50 per 100km from the petrol station.

[DiscoMick]

There is a Nissan Leaf and a Mitsubishi which have ranges of up to about 300kms so that would be plenty for normal commuting. Charge for free off solar. Plus some people use their electric car batteries as emergency reserve power sources for their solar houses. Just plug in and the car can charge the house batteries.
Nissan Leaf Australia - My Electric Car (https://myelectriccar.com.au/nissan-leaf/)
Nissan Leaf 2018 review | Autocar (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/nissan/leaf/first-drives/nissan-leaf-2018-review)
We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/mitsubishi/imiev)
Outlander PHEV (https://www.mitsubishi-motors.com.au/vehicles/outlander-phev)

[goingbush]

Also charging at Tesla destination chargers is Free .

No account required , no card swipe , Its Free .
I asked the winery where this charger is located & they said Tesla installed their 3 phase solar array, the charger & power wall all for free .

One Tesla and my Landy are the only two cars they have seen charging with it.

I tasted some wine while I was charging , cost me $35.00 , that sucked . Need chargers installed at Micro-Breweries
have a look at PlugShare - Find Electric Vehicle Charging Locations Near You (https://www.plugshare.com)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/03/275.jpg

[Mick_Marsh]

Also charging at Tesla destination chargers is Free .

No account required , no card swipe , Its Free .
I asked the winery where this charger is located & they said Tesla installed their 3 phase solar array, the charger & power wall all for free .

One Tesla and my Landy are the only two cars they have seen charging with it.

I tasted some wine while I was charging , cost me $35.00 , that sucked . Need chargers installed at Micro-Breweries
have a look at PlugShare - Find Electric Vehicle Charging Locations Near You (https://www.plugshare.com)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/03/275.jpg
How much did it cost you to trailer it to Corowa so you could charge it at Rutherglen?

[Arch]

If I did not have solar it works out at $3.50 per 100km from AGL instead of $19.50 per 100km from the petrol station.

Just that alone sounds fantastic.

[bee utey]

How much did it cost you to trailer it to Corowa so you could charge it at Rutherglen?

Probably the exact same amount it would have cost to trailer it there before it was EV converted. [biggrin]

[ian4002000]

If you wanted to extend the driving range of the vehicle on special occasions, could a generator be connected to your system ? and if so what size generator would create enough power for the electric motor ?

Ian
Bittern

[goingbush]

How much did it cost you to trailer it to Corowa so you could charge it at Rutherglen?

Thats funny Mick, I could have driven it to Rutherglen but at the time did not know that my charge cord was going to fit . Would not have been able to drive it home again without charge.

[goingbush]

If you wanted to extend the driving range of the vehicle on special occasions, could a generator be connected to your system ? and if so what size generator would create enough power for the electric motor ?

Ian
Bittern

not really , it takes 6-8 hours charging at 3.3kw for 100km range. so would need a 25kva generator to sustain 100kmh . At 100kmh its pulling 200-250 amps at 144volt.

My LandRover conversion is not very efficient compared to properly designed EV's ,

[DiscoMick]

Dieselgate leaves UK’s car industry in crisis

Dieselgate leaves UK’s car industry in crisis | Business | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/apr/21/dieselgate-uk-car-industry-sales-slump?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard)

[martnH]

Also charging at Tesla destination chargers is Free .

No account required , no card swipe , Its Free .
I asked the winery where this charger is located & they said Tesla installed their 3 phase solar array, the charger & power wall all for free .

One Tesla and my Landy are the only two cars they have seen charging with it.

I tasted some wine while I was charging , cost me $35.00 , that sucked . Need chargers installed at Micro-Breweries
have a look at PlugShare - Find Electric Vehicle Charging Locations Near You (https://www.plugshare.com)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/03/275.jpgHave to say this is amazing.......

[DiscoMick]

Green credentials spruiked for new 'silent' Gordon River tour boat
New Gordon River tour boat spruiks green credentials, for 'silent' wilderness cruise - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-15/new-gordon-river-cruise-vessel-named/9759540)

[Homestar]

Didn't know if I should put this here or the Autonomous vehicles thread, but here will do.


https://youtu.be/kh00GAx66sA

[PhilipA]

What a fabulous thing.

Just as an aside, I read somewhere recently that pedestrians are "gaming" the autonomous test vehicles by walking out in front of them, knowing that they have to stop.

This would also apply to the latest Subarus and Mazdas with autonomous braking. Could make for a slow trip in city centres. It also could affect the theories of futurists that AVs will reduce congestion. Imagine all those AV Ubers stopping every few metres.

Regards Philip A

[DiscoMick]

Autonomous braking could also have advantages.
Obviously if your car stops it avoids it being damaged and saves money.
Auto braking would also be essential on automated public transport, such as buses travelling fixed routes. I can see Brisbane's excellent busway network being a prime candidate for auto buses with auto braking.

[Homestar]

Just as an aside, I read somewhere recently that pedestrians are "gaming" the autonomous test vehicles by walking out in front of them, knowing that they have to stop.

This would also apply to the latest Subarus and Mazdas with autonomous braking. Could make for a slow trip in city centres. It also could affect the theories of futurists that AVs will reduce congestion. Imagine all those AV Ubers stopping every few metres.

Regards Philip A

He he - love to see someone try that in front of the wrong vehicle that didn’t have the tech fitted... [emoji56]

[DiscoMick]

What a fabulous thing.

Just as an aside, I read somewhere recently that pedestrians are "gaming" the autonomous test vehicles by walking out in front of them, knowing that they have to stop.

This would also apply to the latest Subarus and Mazdas with autonomous braking. Could make for a slow trip in city centres. It also could affect the theories of futurists that AVs will reduce congestion. Imagine all those AV Ubers stopping every few metres.

Regards Philip A
Obviously didn't work with the Uber vehicle that just kept going and took out that woman.

[nick_e]

Didn't know if I should put this here or the Autonomous vehicles thread, but here will do.

I wonder how many laps they let the car do and what its learning algorithms are like.

[Homestar]

I wonder how many laps they let the car do and what its learning algorithms are like.

Yeah, would be interesting to know. While I like the tech behind it, I'm not sure if I'm ready to watch car racing that has no drivers just yet. 😁

[nick_e]

Yeah, would be interesting to know. While I like the tech behind it, I'm not sure if I'm ready to watch car racing that has no drivers just yet. 😁

What would be cool though is a single automated car to compete in a major racing competition.

Like a google F1 car that has no driver. :lol2:

I wonder how it would fare?

[PhilipA]

I wonder how it would fare?
It would slow down whenever there was a car in front of it.LOL
Regards Philip A

[DiscoMick]

What would be cool though is a single automated car to compete in a major racing competition.

Like a google F1 car that has no driver. [emoji38]2:

I wonder how it would fare?Imagine if it was also electric, like the current F electric series. Auto + electric = PlayStation, except for real.

[bee utey]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__5oy8ciJuQ

ACCIONA 100% Ecopowered, the first electric car to finish the Dakar Rally (http://www.acciona.com.au/pressroom/news/2017/january/acciona-100-ecopowered-the-first-electric-car-finish-dakar-rally/)

[goingbush]

Heres my Finke contender - I dont think .

Anyway , my practical charge range is about 80km , thats normal daily running about. This morning I did some 'greenlaning' I think is what the Poms call it, took an hour to do this 33km , got home and had 88% battery remaining, could extrapolate that to over 200km (or is my maths that bad) , helps not stop starting in traffic too I guess


https://youtu.be/tbPDSq3huo8

[Homestar]

Lovely 2 door, nice conversion. Those that like EV conversions should subscribe to this channel, it's very good.


https://youtu.be/IGjOY4JBmy4

[goingbush]

I cant help thinking Robert Llewellyn got his penchant for Electric Cars from this episode of Scrapheap


https://youtu.be/sChTAvYx1L0

[Homestar]

Or from years of playing Kryten on Red Dwarf... [emoji16]

[Homestar]

It has got me thinking about what my RRC would be like as an electric vehicle. What year on makes it difficult to do? Would an 86 model be a viable donor?

Would only need 120 to 150KM range max and SWMBO could use it as a daily driver...

[goingbush]

93 onward involves extra red tape, East West engines are more difficult as the ICE forms part of the crumple zone. 86RRC would be Ideal, skinny road tyres will help commuting range a lot.

Theres a Chinese bloke on EV FB page trying to unload 'cheap' LiFePo4's I'd be investigating that ,
Australian Electric Car Conversion Group (EV) public group | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/32431943392/)
Ive also heard of a Melbourne vendor importing salvage Leaf packs , they are a viable alternative to new at half the price.

[Homestar]

Hmmm, will start doing some serious research. It’s a vehicle I’ll be keeping forever so sinking a large chunk doing this isn’t a killer, although I do have to work out what it will cost and where that money comes from. My immediate assumption would be $15 to $20K. Not sure how close to the mark that would be.

[Homestar]

You been holding out on us mate? Has this YouTube video been posted here before? [emoji16]


https://youtu.be/eeaGrr1boLY

[goingbush]

You been holding out on us mate? Has this YouTube video been posted here before? [emoji16]

YouTube (https://youtu.be/eeaGrr1boLY)

oh, oops, I forgot about that .

I spent about 21k but that included $10,500 on new Prismatic cells , I'd reckon you could get a Decent pack using Leaf Modules for about 6k , My 66kw Motor & controller was 7.5K but now you can get a fully sealed 100kw for 6k , That would be ok for an RRC , but it will set you back $30k for the 220kw motor thats in Prince Harrys Jag Zero.

[Homestar]

Thanks - got some research to get on with. [emoji106][emoji4]

Not sure if the RRC’s running gear would cope with 220KW... [emoji38]

[goingbush]

Thanks - got some research to get on with. [emoji106][emoji4]

Not sure if the RRC’s running gear would cope with 220KW... [emoji38]


best place to get questions answered, A lot like AULRO but DIY EV centric .

Research fast & get in before Aussie Dollar drops to US $0.40

DIY Electric Car Forums Site Home (http://www.diyelectriccar.com/)

[goingbush]

Heres some figures to present to CFO

Rounding off figures to simplify maths. Example is my LandRover series 3 conversion , far from an efficient conversion.

My Conversion cost $20,000 , (including Battery cost of $10,000)

At 80% Depth of Discharge my batteries are good for a conservative 5000 charge cycles .
Practical distance = 80km per charge 80x5000 = 400,000 km divided by $20,000 = total conversion cost of $.05 per km .

Charging from 5kw PV system , Car has 3.3kw onboard charger , Solar Charging = free
Charging from Tesla Destination chargers = free check PlugShare - Find Electric Vehicle Charging Locations Near You (https://www.plugshare.com) for chargers near you

No Solar ? Charging from 15A GPO @ $0.25c kwh (average Australian Electricity tariff) takes 8 hours max @ 3.3kw = 26.4 kwh = $6.60 for 80km = $8.25c per 100km. -( I'd be getting Solar asap.)

Todays average petrol price $ 1.35 L
Guesstimate generous petrol economy 15L /100km 15x1.35 = $20.25 per 100km



Petrol cost over 100,000km = $20,250 , theres your EV conversion paid for .

Petrol cost over 400,000 km = $81,000 at todays price which is set to rise as battery tech develops & lithium price decreases

ontop of that you have zero servicing costs (other than gear / diff / brakes / tyres etc) Brake wear is reduced due to regen braking , no exhaust or cooling system maintenance .

Makes sound financial sense.

[Homestar]

Would have to factor in not only solar panels, but battery storage at home too as the vehicle would be away from the house from 7am to 6pm each weekday.

[PhilipA]

Now this could change the game completely.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/22/bp-invests-in-israeli-battery-startup-storedot.html

Regards Philip A

[DiscoMick]

Would have to factor in not only solar panels, but battery storage at home too as the vehicle would be away from the house from 7am to 6pm each weekday.Yep, the house could recharge the vehicle and the vehicle could be an emergency power source for the house. People already do this.
Search Alternative Energy Association.

[goingbush]

Now this could change the game completely.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/22/bp-invests-in-israeli-battery-startup-storedot.html

Regards Philip A

And VW Invest in battery tech, its all about to hit the fan for the oil industry.

Volkswagen puts pressure on Tesla with $25-billion investment in battery supplies | The Star (https://www.thestar.com/business/2018/03/13/volkwagen-puts-pressure-on-tesla-with-25-billion-investment-in-battery-supplies.html)

[goingbush]

Would have to factor in not only solar panels, but battery storage at home too as the vehicle would be away from the house from 7am to 6pm each weekday.

Feed your solar into the grid during day & charge on night tariff .
Your wife might be able to organise a 15Amp powerpoint at work to help out as well ??

[DiscoMick]

There is software available which manages the system to secure maximum benefit for yourself.
With rebates so low for grid delivery it may be that the first priority is to fully recharge batteries, then heat water, then charge electric vehicle and only then send surplus to grid for piddling rebate, usually less than the cost of buying power from the grid, so a low priority.

[bee utey]

Any thoughts of a cobalt shortage affecting battery production are making sea floor mining a viable proposition.

Maersk Supply AHTS departs on deep sea mining study mission - Marine Log (https://www.marinelog.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=28975:maersk-supply-ahts-departs-on-deep-sea-mining-study-mission&Itemid=231)

[Homestar]

Feed your solar into the grid during day & charge on night tariff .
Your wife might be able to organise a 15Amp powerpoint at work to help out as well ??

Unfortunately I doubt her work would be interested in supplying her vehicle power and the carpark isn't close to the building.

Feeding solar back into the grid makes almost nothing these days and I have an issue with 10 other houses in the street already have solar, so local voltage is high during the day and none of the installed systems push anywhere near what they are capable of back into the grid. I work with supply authorities intergrating diesel generation into the live grid so understand its limitations here. For solar to be effective here, it's either load shift to the day or store the energy for later. Happy to do either if I go down this path.

We need to sort a few things out first as we aren't sure hiw long we'll be in this house for at the moment, so not goong to tip bucketloads into a system like this if we are going to sell in the next few years.

[DiscoMick]

Recharge and heat water during the day, run on batteries at night, if you need to draw do it when the cost is lowest seems to be the way to go. That's what I'm planning.
Consider a small wind generator too, mainly to benefit at night.

[goingbush]

Homestar , since you work in this field I think you are qualified to answer this problem I have. Not too far off topic.

My E-Landy goes 80km per charge has a 3.3kw charger , For the purposes of discussion lets say it takes 8 hours to charge from flat. In reality it takes about 6 hours as I never go fully flat .

I charge from Solar , but if I was to charge from the grid @ a tariff of $0.25 kwh x 3.3 x 8 = $6.60

I saw a Redback RB4 5kva inverter generator ($1800) that weighs only 33kg the seller is adamant it will put out 3.5 kw all day long, 9+ hours infact from its 6.5L petrol tank , Dubious claim I think, Lets say it uses 6 Liters of Petrol to charge the E-Landy @ 1.50 per Liter x 6 = $9.00
Thats not bad since with a petrol Engine to do 80km The LandRover would have used at least 15L = $22.50

Does that sound about right ???

[Homestar]

Homestar , since you work in this field I think you are qualified to answer this problem I have. Not too far off topic.

My E-Landy goes 80km per charge has a 3.3kw charger , For the purposes of discussion lets say it takes 8 hours to charge from flat. In reality it takes about 6 hours as I never go fully flat .

I charge from Solar , but if I was to charge from the grid @ a tariff of $0.25 kwh x 3.3 x 8 = $6.60

I saw a Redback RB4 5kva inverter generator ($1800) that weighs only 33kg the seller is adamant it will put out 3.5 kw all day long, 9+ hours infact from its 6.5L petrol tank , Dubious claim I think, Lets say it uses 6 Liters of Petrol to charge the E-Landy @ 1.50 per Liter x 6 = $9.00
Thats not bad since with a petrol Engine to do 80km The LandRover would have used at least 15L = $22.50

Does that sound about right ???

Unfortunately not - no way it will get 9 hours running at 3.5KW - closer to half that I would estimate without knowing what engine it was. Most of these style gens have a tank to run 8 hours at 50% load, so about 8 hours at 2.0KW woukd be closer to the mark - I'd guess around 4 to 4.5 hours at 3.5KW.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

[grey_ghost]

Hi All,

Spotted this on the way to work this morning - nice number plate [thumbsupbig]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/05/460.jpg

[PhilipA]

The ultimate virtue signalling in his 150K+ car.
I wonder what his other cars are . Maybe a HSV Como or something that guzzles fuel?
The average Tesla owner in the USA owns 5 cars.
Regards Philip A

[grey_ghost]

Hi Phillip,

I just noticed your Bakehouse & Cafe in the photo! You just missed the car as it drove past, Lol!

Q: So there is zero oil in a Tesla? Nothing in any of the drive-train?
Q: What about grease?

[goingbush]

Why so much hate for EV's ?? I don't understand !

[grey_ghost]

No hate here - I love the look of the Tesla, it’s just a bit out of my price range!

[Homestar]

Love EV's, love the tech in the Tesla, hate Elon Musk as he rips 100's of Millions of dollars from the US Public to build his empire - I almost get that as he's bringing some incredible tech to the market, but some of his other ideas are just bonkers - basic physics says they're completely not possible, but the US public and others just seem to gobble up his BS with a smile on their faces and hand him even more cash. I don't think much of his ethics either.

Would I have a Tesla? On principle - no, but only for the above mentioned reasons. If I had the money, I would have multiple EV's though, both myself and SWMBO could work within there limitations easily, as could most people with a bit of thought. Add some good solar and you are as close as you can come to a vehicle that doesn't deplete finite resources - apart from building them, etc.

Just need to win Tatts... [smilebigeye]

[Eevo]

Why so much hate for EV's ?? I don't understand !

cause they are not real cars

[goingbush]

cause they are not real cars


Hmm , .. so what makes a real car ??

[goingbush]

FWIW I would not buy a current model Tesla, not particularly keen on Autonomous features Either, but some are inevitable like pulling over safely and stopping if you fall asleep.

Looking very much forward to seeing the New Defender & hoping there is a Full Electric model, - I'll be one of the first adopters of that.

But got to give Elon Musk credit , Ethics aside, he has given the planet a good boot up the arse.

[donh54]

FWIW I would not buy a current model Tesla, not particularly keen on Autonomous features Either, but some are inevitable like pulling over safely and stopping if you fall asleep.

Looking very much forward to seeing the New Defender & hoping there is a Full Electric model, - I'll be one of the first adopters of that.

But got to give Elon Musk credit , Ethics aside, he has given the planet a good boot up the arse.Maybe we should all be caring understanding nice types, and give him one back, just for being a pillick! [bigrolf ]

[bee utey]

Hmm , .. so what makes a real car ??

One that stinks of char grilled dead dinosaur doo and roars like something about to go extinct from meteor impact.

[Eevo]

One that stinks of char grilled dead dinosaur doo and roars like something about to go extinct from meteor impact.


this guy gets it.

[PhilipA]

I would have a hybrid /chargeable Vehicle anytime as long as it was cost competitive with current cars on the market.
I have even looked at second hand Prius/priuses ( Oh the shame) I have noted at least one Prius around the Central Coast with a charge plug, so has been modified I presume with the USA battery kit.
I have a couple of uses for the car. One is tooling around Gosford etc, but occasionally I go to Kellyville or Avalon , stop for a few hours then home which is 200Km plus, with possible heavy traffic or complete stops for hours when yet another semi/truck/car crashes/burns/rolls on the M1.
I foresee quite a bit of range anxiety occurring in a pure EV on a hot day stuck in traffic after going 150KM then sitting for hours with aircon on. Imagine the rush to the nearest recharge station and the queue.

Regards Philip A

[goingbush]

this guy gets it.

Eevo needs edumacating


https://youtu.be/ZAwIsKC7ROQ

[DiscoMick]

Love EV's, love the tech in the Tesla, hate Elon Musk as he rips 100's of Millions of dollars from the US Public to build his empire - I almost get that as he's bringing some incredible tech to the market, but some of his other ideas are just bonkers - basic physics says they're completely not possible, but the US public and others just seem to gobble up his BS with a smile on their faces and hand him even more cash. I don't think much of his ethics either.

Would I have a Tesla? On principle - no, but only for the above mentioned reasons. If I had the money, I would have multiple EV's though, both myself and SWMBO could work within there limitations easily, as could most people with a bit of thought. Add some good solar and you are as close as you can come to a vehicle that doesn't deplete finite resources - apart from building them, etc.

Just need to win Tatts... [smilebigeye]There are affordable EVs around.

[goingbush]

There are affordable EVs around.

They will be cheaper than ICE cars in less than 10 years .

[bee utey]

There are affordable EVs around.

A very tiny number so far, hopefully the shortage will be rectified in the next few years.

[JDNSW]

They will be cheaper than ICE cars in less than 10 years .

My current cars are 34 and 48 years old. In ten years I'll be getting pretty close to ninety, and may or may not still be able to drive. What is certain though is I won't have much money. Unfortunately, it seems that electric cars are going to be a bit late for me, personally.

[goingbush]

My current cars are 34 and 48 years old. In ten years I'll be getting pretty close to ninety, and may or may not still be able to drive. What is certain though is I won't have much money. Unfortunately, it seems that electric cars are going to be a bit late for me, personally.

Mine is 43 years old, was playing around with it this morning, First decent rain last night since I converted it so still learning to drive it. Interesting.

Good training for the 4x4 Mobility scooter Ive got planned for when Im too old to drive.


https://youtu.be/Scv2z6u-S0w

[cripesamighty]

Well, that's when you need to buy one of these....

Disability vehicles kitted out to look like Land Rovers and Harley-Davidsons and are even appearing in new Robbie Williams video | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2336173/Disability-vehicles-kitted-look-like-Land-Rovers-Harley-Davidsons-appearing-new-Robbie-Williams-video.html)

[DiscoMick]

Several Nissan Leafs on carsales. Also BMW i3s.
If typical daily urban travel is only about 60 ks, then a Leaf or i3 with a 300 km range could do the job.

[Homestar]

There are affordable EVs around.

Not any I'd be seen dead in... 😁

Which is another reason I'm thinking of converting the RRC. 👍

[cjc_td5]

Not any I'd be seen dead in... 😁

Which is another reason I'm thinking of converting the RRC. 👍

Just stick the electric motor into the PTO at the back of the LT95. Effectively build a hybrid. No range anxiety, the right noise when you want it, could possibly even configure it to run on straight electric on occasions if the electric motor can deal with no gears including reverse?

[goingbush]

Just stick the electric motor into the PTO at the back of the LT95. Effectively build a hybrid. No range anxiety, the right noise when you want it, could possibly even configure it to run on straight electric on occasions if the electric motor can deal with no gears including reverse?

Electric motor has no need for gearbox reverse , and taking off / driving in top no problems. No problem at all running both motors at once for more oomph either , no special synchronisation needed .

Thats exactly how LandRover themselves made 3 x prototype hybrids, a 109 and 2 x 110

this one in Dunsfold collection

The Dunsfold Collection :: The Dunsfold Collection (http://www.dunsfoldcollection.co.uk/collection/military/ser-iii-military-electric-drive-prototype)

[loanrangie]

I wonder how my 74 Kombi would go as an EV.

[donh54]

They will be cheaper than ICE cars in less than 10 years .Yep, just like Prius (when the battery pack is due for replacement)

[Homestar]

Yep, just like Prius (when the battery pack is due for replacement)

I had a mate buy a used Prius for peanuts - still gets very good milage and the batteries still perform moderately well even though they are well past their replacement date and it was sold to him as 'batteries needed' - the Dealer told the previous owner this, but my mates had it 3 years and thet are still going fine, although not perfect. It owes him basically nothing so when they are finally stuffed it's not going to hurt him.

[Homestar]

I wonder how my 74 Kombi would go as an EV.

Perfect for that. 👍👍👍

[Homestar]

Just stick the electric motor into the PTO at the back of the LT95. Effectively build a hybrid. No range anxiety, the right noise when you want it, could possibly even configure it to run on straight electric on occasions if the electric motor can deal with no gears including reverse?

I like that idea but that would still mean fixing the bloody V8 in it. 😁 Easier to ditch it entirely I think. Research is continuing. Fund manager is less happy about the potential cost but working through that... 😉

[goingbush]

Oil and car companies are suddenly investing in electric vehicles – why? : RenewEconomy (https://reneweconomy.com.au/oil-and-car-companies-are-suddenly-investing-in-electric-vehicles-why-59960/)

[goingbush]

I wonder how my 74 Kombi would go as an EV.

Hundereds of VW conversions have been done (USA) , Beetle & Kombi are the most popular EV conversions & DIY kits are readily available to bolt unto existing gearbox. .

Even Tesla Drive units can be made to fit. Not a difficult conversion (but expensive)

I love this clip . did he say "Hold my Beer" ?


https://youtu.be/omft20Uro-s

[goingbush]

Novelty hasn't worn off yet, It occurred to me I don't even know what it sounds like going past, so did this today.


https://youtu.be/kG9zG0GwKXs

[Geedublya]

I had a mate buy a used Prius for peanuts - still gets very good milage and the batteries still perform moderately well even though they are well past their replacement date and it was sold to him as 'batteries needed' - the Dealer told the previous owner this, but my mates had it 3 years and thet are still going fine, although not perfect. It owes him basically nothing so when they are finally stuffed it's not going to hurt him.

My mate has done the same but his battery pack started to fail. He bought (for next to nothing) a couple of packs from the local taxi depot and using a multimeter and simple load test determined which cells were faulty. Swapped out the cells with some good tested ones from the spare packs and all is good now.

He has a multitude of vehicles including an 80 series 4.5l petrol on 35s and dual lockers, a HJ45 trayback with stroked chev 350 on nitrous and a D4D Prado for his wife. He drives the Prius to work as his daily and gets 4l/100 and is very happy with it. From memory it has over 350K now.

[goingbush]

My mate has done the same but his battery pack started to fail. He bought (for next to nothing) a couple of packs from the local taxi depot and using a multimeter and simple load test determined which cells were faulty. Swapped out the cells with some good tested ones from the spare packs and all is good now.

He has a multitude of vehicles including an 80 series 4.5l petrol on 35s and dual lockers, a HJ45 trayback with stroked chev 350 on nitrous and a D4D Prado for his wife. He drives the Prius to work as his daily and gets 4l/100 and is very happy with it. From memory it has over 350K now.

It only takes one bad cell to pull down a whole pack , The cells don't degrade so much as they are not created equally. In service complete battery packs are discarded because of one cell . I have 45 x 200ah cells in mine and one is faulty from new, I estimate that cell has a real capacity of about 120 Ah so effectively brings the capacity of the entire pack down to 120ah I know this because my Battery Management System monitors the voltage of each cell , This one bad cell drops to 2.8V whilst the rest are on 3.1V From 2.8V there is a steep drop off to 2.6 from whence there is no recovery so I have my BMS shut the car down when the bad cell is at 2.8 .

As well as that one bad low cell , I have two cells that go high (I have BMS set to stop the charger when a cell reaches 4.5v) before the rest of the pack , so they fully charge before the others , thus again limiting the pack capacity. If you charge too high you can kill a cell, Thus a BMS is vital.

I have 4 new cells on the way from China , Rather than waste the bad cell I'll pick out the 4 worst cells and use them to make a 12v lithium pack for my caravan. Should last for ever.

Used Nissan Leaf packs are a really good way to go , only the low & high cells will be abused the rest will last another lifetime.

[DiscoMick]

It only takes one bad cell to pull down a whole pack , The cells don't degrade so much as they are not created equally. In service complete battery packs are discarded because of one cell . I have 45 x 200ah cells in mine and one is faulty from new, I estimate that cell has a real capacity of about 120 Ah so effectively brings the capacity of the entire pack down to 120ah I know this because my Battery Management System monitors the voltage of each cell , This one bad cell drops to 2.8V whilst the rest are on 3.1V From 2.8V there is a steep drop off to 2.6 from whence there is no recovery so I have my BMS shut the car down when the bad cell is at 2.8 .

As well as that one bad low cell , I have two cells that go high (I have BMS set to stop the charger when a cell reaches 4.5v) before the rest of the pack , so they fully charge before the others , thus again limiting the pack capacity. If you charge too high you can kill a cell, Thus a BMS is vital.

I have 4 new cells on the way from China , Rather than waste the bad cell I'll pick out the 4 worst cells and use them to make a 12v lithium pack for my caravan. Should last for ever.

Used Nissan Leaf packs are a really good way to go , only the low & high cells will be abused the rest will last another lifetime.Electric vehicles will have to work because petrol and electric vehicles will be phased out, as is already being planned in Europe.
EU must end new petrol and diesel car sales by 2030 to meet climate targets – report

EU must end new petrol and diesel car sales by 2030 to meet climate targets – report | Environment | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/sep/20/eu-must-end-new-petrol-and-diesel-car-sales-by-2030-to-meet-climate-targets-report?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard)