Coils back to Air Springs what needs doing

[wayneg]

Has anyone done this. Any problems I should know. I can see that the rear lower coils have a plate welded to the Axle that will need to be cut off. Probably the fronts too. Any one fitted coils who can remember what was fitted and now needs to be removed

I have had a quick look at the new project and everything EAS is in place apart from the springs. I am hoping this will be a simple task of just swapping the springs over , resting the system and stand back as she raises majesticly.

[Hoges]

Hang on... don't cut any plates yet!!!

The air springs sit on a plate. My understanding of the coil spring kits I've seen is that they are a straight swap and no welding of additional plates is necessary.


cheers

[wayneg]

Thanks for the pointer, It will be a few weeks before I get the angle grinder out so plenty of time to get things right. From what you are saying the Coils are mounted on the same mounts so once removed the airsprings can go back no problem. Please let that be the case. Makes sense. Need to do a side by side check with both cars.

I have just found there are several types of kit, these instructions seem to confirm that there is no drilling or welding required to fit coils......http://www.roverparts.com/Instruction%20Photos/9520lb/Instructions-9520LB-Harness.pdf


Any more pointers greatly received.

[Hoges]

No angle grinders please!!:D Straight swap, check condition of sensors and ends of air hoses -cut off 1-2mm if necessary, put a very small chamfer on end of each hose using a pencil sharpener to facilitate its insertion past the 2 small o-rings in the retaining collet in each air spring and the collets in the valve block. You will also have to undo /disconnect any wiiring fixes which may have been made to deactivate the EAS. Good luck with it!

[wayneg]

I shall report back in a few weeks.

[PaulP38a]

Wayne, if you can post some photos of the top and bottom of the coils where they sit in the car, we can offer some more-educated responses.
Depending on what the PO did with the ride height, you may want to check the shocks and bump stops too.
Electrically, the EAS Delay timer under the passenger seat has probably been removed so you might need another one.

Cheers, Paul.

[joel0407]

Have a search of my threads. I'm half way through doing it.

The bags are in. No cutting or anything like that. The plates on the bottom were just bolted. and there were just rings on the top.

I only have the bags pumped up with a foot pump at the moment. I am not installing the standard LR compressor. I have a compressor under the bonnet which is operated with a pressure switch. The standard LR compressor will be replaced with just a valve that will let air into the system.

Happy Days.

[superquag]

Arnotts are supposed to be better, but because they're a factory-clamped unit, the whole thing gets chucked if/when the bellows leaks.... At least on the Classic we have the choice of 'OEM' bellows-only or Arnotts complete.

You will need to install a self-rescue isolation setup as well, for when the valve-block or compressor spits the dummy.
Not 'if' .....

Bear in mind that re-installing the EAS is yet another proof of RR insanity...:eek:

Disclaimer:- Paid a fortune to fix my compressor... bought a set of Arnotts... lashed out on a 'EAS - Kicker' (worthwhile!) re-built the valve body... (No, don't ask how well....) I make no claim to being fiscally responsible or of sound mind. My family totally agree, and remind me often...

Edit:- Apologies, thought you meant a Classic, not P38.
Why not use standard springs and put those Firestone inner-bags inside them for when you want extra height or load-levelling ? - Would make it fail-safe.

[wayneg]

Thanks all for the input, I am obviously thinking to much about potential problems after being told the plates would be welded on and having a quick look and seeing the rear lower ( original plates? ) nicely welded.

As for the EAS being problematic and this being a stupid idea I would add that this is my 4th RR with EAS, 3 on air and now this one that needs sorting. No fear here. If the car does not rise I will just use my schraeder valve kit to blow them up until I can find the problem. A P38 on coils not for me and a backward step.
If anyone wants the Coil kit when I am finished make an offer, I wont ever use it.

Paul, if you did not see, last week I picked up this car. Previous owner did the conversion and was adamant that nothing was touched just the springs changed. A quick look and everything including the air lines are still there waiting to be pushed into the new air springs once finished. The dash still shows EAS fault SLOW TO 55KPH, so hopefully a quick reset will sort that. Do you have any Valve Block kits left?

[jezza89]

They didn't even put the loop on to force it into EAS manual? Doesn't it constantly beep?

I will be doing the same job as you in February.

I noticed the same thing with my springs.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/739.jpg

The air springs only have 2 clips holding them in too.

[wayneg]

Looks like I heard right, The angle grinder is going to be needed.

[PaulP38a]

Hi Wayne - hopefully that plate holding the bottom of coil on the front is just bolted through the hole on the diff plate.
The rear doesn't look so bad, hoping that extra plate has just a few tack welds.

I have plenty of valve block o-ring kits, and a few compressor seals but no complete valve blocks sorry.

Jezza - I could be wrong, but I think the bolt holes on the plate at the top of your coil may be larger than the usual 10mm (will check and confirm) that the lugs at the top of the front air springs have, maybe it is just my eyes :)
It is normal for there to be four holes at the top of that tower.

Cheers, Paul.

[wayneg]

Job done without to many dramas. The rear had plates tack welded to the axle and the tops used the old airspring top plate and a steel plate, all held in place by the original R clips. The fronts again had plates tack welded to the bottom and the usual plate bolted on the top. Peterjam was 100% correct on his prediction on the fitment.
So I am now riding on air sort of. The car did its best to raise up however the Valve Block is leaking like a sieve. Valve Block R & R to be done ASAP in the meantime my bypass kit is keeping up me riding on air.
Spring kit is in the markets, if anyone is interested make a sensible offer.

[Keithy P38]

Good work! You have brought another P38 back to its original riding glory!

Cheers
Keithy

[mtb_gary]

Well done Wayne!
Gary

[TheTree]

Great stuff mate!

Steve

[Gippslander]

Wayneg I have a complete valve block at home it was holding air when i bought the donor car it came in, i let the aiir out a month after it arrived at the house and the bags were still inflated so no leakages. I am away at present but if you want to contact me i can arrange to have it sent to you i also have two complete kits for the valve block i have kept the compressor to run my air lockers using existing air tank. Also will have a complete chassis, two doors, rear upper and lower tailgate and extras if anyone is interested. Sorry Wayneg not trying to steal the post but the chassis has all the right bits for your air springs to sit in and two diff housings to boot.

Gippy:D

[wayneg]

Thanks for the offer, PM sent

[superquag]

You're mad.... but congratulations on your successful insanity. :p:p:p


James in the Gosnells Asylum,

'95 Classic Vogue SE with working air $uspension.

[wayneg]

So into the Valve block today for an O ring renew (thanks again Paul). 1st solenoid off was the one atop the exhaust diaphragm. The central small O ring looked like this.....

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1190.jpg

Think I have found the problem why air was going out at the same rate as being pumped in? :D Also the actual diaphragm had a 10mm split in it, not sure if it was all the way through though. Got to feel sorry for the poor guy who could have spent 10c on an O-ring if only he had known before castrating the car at great cost

[Robsrod 58]

Speaking of valve blocks has any one had any success in resurfacing the valves them selves to produce a more of a point contact to the alloy surface, and hopefully a more leak resistant seal?

Rob

[superquag]

If i recall... someone tried 2000 grade wet&dry. Or finer if you can get it... Are they really that bad ?

[wayneg]

I think that the pointy bit is not designed to seal, just hold the small O ring behind it which provides the seal. Correct me if I am wrong.

[Robsrod 58]

I think that the pointy bit is not designed to seal, just hold the small O ring behind it which provides the seal. Correct me if I am wrong.

I probably didn't explain properly, by point seal I mean, the smallest possible contact point, therefore extracting the greatest possible pressure/square inch on the point of seal eer, does that sound any better?

Rob

[davidsonsm]

Which pointy bit are you guys referring to? rob - the valves seal against the plastic valve body - not the alloy. So hence my question.

[wayneg]

I presumed these............

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1166.jpg

[Robsrod 58]

I presumed these............

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1166.jpg

Ah, now I see the confusion, not the NRV's, the control valves for the air springs and compressor control.

The NRV's are as you say O ring contact and completely servicable:D

[wayneg]

I think I know what you are getting at. From memory the inner valves have a rubber or similar centre section. This gets a circular indent. I suppose if a few thou could be taken off the end we would be back to a new flat surface,

This picture blatantly stolen from PaulP38a shows the valve. the screwdriver is pointing to the end which gets the indent

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[superquag]

Yes, that's the end that can need attention.

Be very very careful of that O ring being pointed at... the tiniest roll or distortion when re-assembling will give you a really annoying slow leak....

[Hoges]

I think I know what you are getting at. From memory the inner valves have a rubber or similar centre section. This gets a circular indent. I suppose if a few thou could be taken off the end we would be back to a new flat surface,

This picture blatantly stolen from PaulP38a shows the valve. the screwdriver is pointing to the end which gets the indent

http://paulp38a.com/gallery/d/1175-1/EAS-Vblk-47s.JPG

Yep, a dab of superglue to hold the black rubber in place, then put the shaft in a drill press, turn on drill (200 rpm) and very gently lower onto previously water soaked 2000 wet and dry and keep lubricated with plenty of water. Doesn't take much to remove the circular indente. Let it dry and reassemble.
The trick is to maintain the flat surface, hence the 2000 w&d and drill press.

[davidsonsm]

I used 2000 grade wet and dry, wetted, together with some metal polish against the end of the valve stem whilst it rotated in a drill.

Was too nervous to actually pry out the small rubber stops/seals in case I damaged them. Any suggestions on the best way of getting them out? Would have been good to build them up again using the glue.

As for the nrv's - if the cone is too worn on one side, they don't seem to reseat very well. Hence why I've ended up with 9 of them and selected the 3 best. Perhaps a dremel and a fine grinding surface would recondition them? But you'd end up having to take quite a bit off to get them round again. Might attempt to apply weld to build them up a bit before re surfacing. The stems look like brass. What are the cones made from? Anyone know.

[wayneg]

It was nice to get a few well done comments after the Coils were removed and the car was again riding on air, albeit with a bypass kit keeping the Airsprings inflated. Today was the big day for the overhauled Valve block to be refitted and the System tested. The Valve block had all the O rings changed plus what I now believe is necessary, all the rubber ends of the solenoid plungers sanded down to a flat surface.
I am now giving myself a big pat on the back as she rose majesticly, as Land Rover intended to Std ride hight. Only one steady orange light to show all was well. A fair bit of time but no question worth the effort. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[davidsonsm]

Bloody hell. You have done well if it worked great first effort. It only took me 55 attempts!

[Hoges]

:clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2:

[Keithy P38]

Love your work mate!

[Robsrod 58]

Well done, you give me great confidence in my reworked block.:D:D:D

[TheTree]

Hoorah !

Well done a great effort and now you reap the rewards :D

Steve

[mtb_gary]

Well done!!! Time to float on air :D:D:D

Gary

[benji]

Awesome work mate!

Well done giving your rangie it's balls back!