Recommended brand for tap & die set

[Dave_S]

I have an Isuzu Land Rover County and a couple of old Volvos. I need a tap and die set that's fairly comprehensive and covers a range of metric and imperial threads. I don't want to do a lot of thread cutting as such, but I often find threads that have been damaged or worn or just need cleaning up.

Any recommendations?

[incisor]

for what your doing the stuff from trade tools will do the job

[33chinacars]

What ever you do don't buy cheap. They will break & them your in more trouble than a cat in a dog house. Spend your money [U]once[U] on a decent set. P & N are a good medium priced set.

Brain Hjelm on here may have some thing or have better recommendations

Gary

[Bigbjorn]

I have an Isuzu Land Rover County and a couple of old Volvos. I need a tap and die set that's fairly comprehensive and covers a range of metric and imperial threads. I don't want to do a lot of thread cutting as such, but I often find threads that have been damaged or worn or just need cleaning up.

Any recommendations?

My business, Brian's Retirement Sale, sells taps and dies as part of a range of machine shop supplies, restorer's and repairer's tools, hobby and model engineer's supplies. My speciality is rare, obsolete, hard to find, and "no longer available" taps and dies.

My advice to any home repairer or hobbyist is to buy only what you need. A comprehensive set from No. 10 to 3/4" or 2.5mm to 22mm will contain many items you will never use. Most passenger vehicles and motor cycles can be covered with taps and dies from No.10 to 1/2"/ 4mm to 14mm. If your budget stretches to it, buy only high speed steel tools. They are more accurate and last longer than carbon steel tools. You will find that the Oz made brands, Suttons, Osborne, very expensive. P&N have been owned by Suttons for over 10 years and are now the hardware and tool shop brand whilst Suttons is the industrial brand.

[Dave_S]

Thanks guys. I might wander down to the local bolt shop next weekend and see if I can get the right one.

[Rick1970]

If your budget stretches to it, buy only high speed steel tools. They are more accurate and last longer than carbon steel tools.


+1 on this....I recently broke a near new carbon steel M16 tap in half, it slipped out of the tap holder, fell onto a concrete floor and snapped in two!


Work was buying some cheap carbon steel ones from a local supplier, we gave up on them after having too many breakages....they seem very brittle.

[robbotd5]

G'day Dave.
Agreed on the cheapies. Avoid them unless your good at removing broken taps. As Brian has suggested, buy an industry recognised brand such as P&N, Sutton. BTW I like the sound of your Volvo's!. Are you in a club?
Regards
Robbo

[Dave_S]

G'day Dave.
Agreed on the cheapies. Avoid them unless your good at removing broken taps. As Brian has suggested, buy an industry recognised brand such as P&N, Sutton. BTW I like the sound of your Volvo's!. Are you in a club?
Regards
Robbo

I'm in a club that caters for Volvo 120s and 1800s, so basically all of the Amazon series and the P1800s (like the one in "The Saint"). My wagon is pretty rare, with probably only a dozen or so left on the road at the moment. There are lots more overseas though and parts are relatively easy to come by.

I'm currently looking at options for painting the car. A friend had a quote of over $20,000 to paint his wagon, and that was on the basis that he stripped it to a shell and reassembled it afterwards. I think I'd better learn to paint!

[robbotd5]

I'm in a club that caters for Volvo 120s and 1800s, so basically all of the Amazon series and the P1800s (like the one in "The Saint"). My wagon is pretty rare, with probably only a dozen or so left on the road at the moment. There are lots more overseas though and parts are relatively easy to come by.

I'm currently looking at options for painting the car. A friend had a quote of over $20,000 to paint his wagon, and that was on the basis that he stripped it to a shell and reassembled it afterwards. I think I'd better learn to paint!

Dave
That club would be the 1800/120 club Australia. Of which I'm a member. I have a 1969 1800S.
Regards
Robbo

[Dave_S]

Dave
That club would be the 1800/120 club Australia. Of which I'm a member. I have a 1969 1800S.
Regards
Robbo

Good stuff. We would love an 1800, but left it too late. We will never have the price of entry, so Amazons it is :D

[OffTrack]

When I've bought taps in the past the counter staff always seem to ask if you want something that will last or something cheap, and if you answer something that will last they point you to Goliath products. Not sure how competitive they are* as I've always bought single taps and the price as been ok.

Goliath Threading Tools Pty Ltd. Australia's Leading Threading Tool Specialists. (http://www.goliath.com.au)





* pretty expensive if their price list is anything to go by

[Bigbjorn]

When I've bought taps in the past the counter staff always seem to ask if you want something that will last or something cheap, and if you answer something that will last they point you to Goliath products. Not sure how competitive they are* as I've always bought single taps and the price as been ok.

Goliath Threading Tools Pty Ltd. Australia's Leading Threading Tool Specialists. (http://www.goliath.com.au)





* pretty expensive if their price list is anything to go by

Just had a look. Eyepoppingly expensive. PM me for a quote if you need any.

Send system, size, pitch, lead required.

[Killer]

Good stuff. We would love an 1800, but left it too late. We will never have the price of entry, so Amazons it is :D

I know of one Dave, but I am not sure that the owner is willing to part with it though.:angel: I do know that he will never drive it again.:( It does need some work, it has been sitting under a tarp for the last eleven years. Current owner is a founding member of the 120 / 1800 club.
Perhaps his Son in law should work on it for him.:angel:

Cheers, Mick.

[DoubleChevron]

ebay UK is a good place to buy taps & dies from. They weigh bugger all so are cheap to post, you can also find the odd sizes like M5 x 0.75 easily :)

seeya,
Shane L.

[Bigbjorn]

What's odd about that? Got them in stock. Also got 5 x 0.8, 5 x 0.9.

[R Miller]

p@n, suttons, or titex and if someone offers you spiral taps don't take them, they are great for machine tapping, but can break quite easy when hand tapping

[steveG]

I've got a metric fine/coarse set from Total Tools which are "Tungsten Alloy Steel".
Think I've only used up to 18mm ( so agree with what Brian said earlier about not using all the larger sizes).

The taps and dies themselves seem to be reasonable quality and definitely better than the small cheap carbon steel set I picked up from Bunnings when I was stuck one weekend.
The only issue I've got with the Total Tools set is that the tap wrenches (and die stock) are horrible. The large ones have really harsh knurling on the handles, and the small tap wrench (chuck style) has a T-handle that's not captive.

Steve

[DoubleChevron]

What's odd about that? Got them in stock. Also got 5 x 0.8, 5 x 0.9.

None of the local places here had it .... oh well... About $15aud delivered for a HSS UK made intermediate tap. M5 x 0.75 (used on 50's and early 60's Citroen D's, they went to M5 x 0.8 in the mid 60's).

seeya
Shane L

[Bigbjorn]

I've got a metric fine/coarse set from Total Tools which are "Tungsten Alloy Steel".
Think I've only used up to 18mm ( so agree with what Brian said earlier about not using all the larger sizes).

The taps and dies themselves seem to be reasonable quality and definitely better than the small cheap carbon steel set I picked up from Bunnings when I was stuck one weekend.
The only issue I've got with the Total Tools set is that the tap wrenches (and die stock) are horrible. The large ones have really harsh knurling on the handles, and the small tap wrench (chuck style) has a T-handle that's not captive.

Steve

Tungsten Alloy Steel and Chrome tungsten Steel are the flash marketing terms for carbon steel cheapies.

[Bigbjorn]

None of the local places here had it .... oh well... About $15aud delivered for a HSS UK made intermediate tap. M5 x 0.75 (used on 50's and early 60's Citroen D's, they went to M5 x 0.8 in the mid 60's).

seeya
Shane L

Most tool and hardware stores only stock the standard sizes per published thread charts. Usually ISO, NC, NF, BSP, NP. Might have some NEF in the better ones. Like nuts and bolts. Only standard sizes and systems. Ask for BSC coarse series or Admiralty Fine and watch the confusion.

[Dave_S]

This has been quite an eye opener. I don't have a gauge to tell me exactly what I need anyway and I believe that some threads are easily confused with others. At the moment I only need one tap to get a car back on the road, but will have to start looking at a more comprehensive collection.

[Dave_S]

I know of one Dave, but I am not sure that the owner is willing to part with it though.:angel: I do know that he will never drive it again.:( It does need some work, it has been sitting under a tarp for the last eleven years. Current owner is a founding member of the 120 / 1800 club.
Perhaps his Son in law should work on it for him.:angel:

Cheers, Mick.

Hi Mick, I do know of that car and I believe the owner attended the club event last weekend in a significantly more modern Volvo. From what I'm told the car would need a full restoration. There is an article in a recent Practical Classics about the restoration of "The Saint" car and it looked like a frightening task. Engine and drivetrain is all fairly simple, but the body, interior and trim is seriously complex and expensive. A restoration specialist company spent 3 months just putting the body back together :o

Then again, if you were keen, took it easy, and kept at it, you could probably knock it over.

If you have any recent pics, the club would love to see them.

[incisor]

Tungsten Alloy Steel and Chrome tungsten Steel are the flash marketing terms for carbon steel cheapies.

that said, they are pretty good for the price you pay for them and if you use a little trefolex or other cutting fluid they behave perfectly well for the average joe with an iq above 5 that doesn't attack stuff like a bull at a gate...

[Bigbjorn]

This has been quite an eye opener. I don't have a gauge to tell me exactly what I need anyway and I believe that some threads are easily confused with others. At the moment I only need one tap to get a car back on the road, but will have to start looking at a more comprehensive collection.

Get yourself some screw pitch gauges, Metric and UN will do, and one of those cheap plastic vernier calipers that reads in inch fractions and millimetres. Then sit down with a bucket of bolts and thread charts and teach yourself to identify them. If spotty faced recalcitrant first year apprentices can be quickly taught this then you can teach yourself quickly.

I would suggest you buy only the tap and/or die you need as you need it. Unless you are setting up a home machine shop and need a range this will keep the cost down.

Thread charts are attached.

Sorry, the system won't let me attach them. Says they already are elsewhere. Search for thread charts.

[Killer]

Hi Mick, I do know of that car and I believe the owner attended the club event last weekend in a significantly more modern Volvo. From what I'm told the car would need a full restoration. There is an article in a recent Practical Classics about the restoration of "The Saint" car and it looked like a frightening task. Engine and drivetrain is all fairly simple, but the body, interior and trim is seriously complex and expensive. A restoration specialist company spent 3 months just putting the body back together :o

Then again, if you were keen, took it easy, and kept at it, you could probably knock it over.

If you have any recent pics, the club would love to see them.

I haven't seen the car except for the tarp for over ten years. I think you would be right, there would be a lot of work. A real pity.:( I think he enjoys driving the modern version though, and he does like the fact that the rear window is a throwback to the P1800 ES.

Cheers, Mick.

[Bigbjorn]

None of the local places here had it .... oh well... About $15aud delivered for a HSS UK made intermediate tap. M5 x 0.75 (used on 50's and early 60's Citroen D's, they went to M5 x 0.8 in the mid 60's).

seeya
Shane L

Might have been Citroen's own creation. Whilst taps are available, the size is not mentioned in any of the recognised guides such as Machinery's Handbook and Sidder's Guide to World Screw Threads.

This wonderful metric system was going to save us from the confusion of having so many different thread systems in use. Ha bloody ha. How many metric systems are there? Start with these - ISO, French Metric, French Automotive, British Standard ISO, DIN, Swiss, Swedish Marine Engineer's, Swiss, French, and German Horological. Probably a few more I have forgotten or not yet encountered. My personal preference is NC, NF, NEF.

[slug_burner]

Might have been Citroen's own creation. Whilst taps are available, the size is not mentioned in any of the recognised guides such as Machinery's Handbook and Sidder's Guide to World Screw Threads.

This wonderful metric system was going to save us from the confusion of having so many different thread systems in use. Ha bloody ha. How many metric systems are there? Start with these - ISO, French Metric, French Automotive, British Standard ISO, DIN, Swiss, Swedish Marine Engineer's, Swiss, French, and German Horological. Probably a few more I have forgotten or not yet encountered. My personal preference is NC, NF, NEF.

How many of those standards overlap? I can't see my self having to use a horological thread on the same thing I would use a Marine engineers one on. Trust the French to come up with two that probably do overlap.

[Dave_S]

Well I did as suggested and went out to buy the tap I needed. I had limited time and the nearest bolt shop had only one brand. In any case it worked fine. I cleaned up all 10 threads in the casing and the bolts went in easily. I even managed to get that satisfying sensation of being covered in gear oil and filth by accidentally rolling in a puddle of the stuff.

Thanks for all the help!

[DoubleChevron]

Might have been Citroen's own creation. Whilst taps are available, the size is not mentioned in any of the recognised guides such as Machinery's Handbook and Sidder's Guide to World Screw Threads.

This wonderful metric system was going to save us from the confusion of having so many different thread systems in use. Ha bloody ha. How many metric systems are there? Start with these - ISO, French Metric, French Automotive, British Standard ISO, DIN, Swiss, Swedish Marine Engineer's, Swiss, French, and German Horological. Probably a few more I have forgotten or not yet encountered. My personal preference is NC, NF, NEF.

I think the M5 x 0.75 is a very early metric "standard" pitch... Everyone started using M5 x 0.8 so they moved to that ............. Part way through the production of a vehicle :wallbash: Who does that ?? (it could be worse, bloody landrover appears to have mixed metric and imperial on the same vehicles ... bloody crazyness I tell you!) Yes I'm always using metric thread gauges to work out what the hell is what. On the one car I found these sizes. M5 x 0.75, M5 x 0.8, M5 x 0.9 and M5 x 1.0 ....

I spend hours sorting out fasteners from a 1963 metric car ... Here's some piccies I took of the sizes found

Is this the best project car you have ever seen? - Page 9 (http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen-9.html#post991055)

M10 x 1.0 anyone ?? sigh ... Lucky the majority of threads that I cleaned up were M5 x 0.75 and M7 x 1.0 (which I had taps & dies for ).

seeya,
Shane L.

[JDNSW]

If you have a late Series 3 Landrover, you will find that it has metric threads on the engine and a few other bits, mostly unified (UNF, UNC) threads on the rest of the vehicle, and a few BSF bolts where parts have remained unchanged since Series 1/2. Probably a few BA as well, although I can't think of any!

John

[isuzurover]

...

I'm currently looking at options for painting the car. A friend had a quote of over $20,000 to paint his wagon, and that was on the basis that he stripped it to a shell and reassembled it afterwards. I think I'd better learn to paint!

Is Mick G still painting cars???

[Dave_S]

Is Mick G still painting cars???

Pretty sure he's not. Last time I spoke to him was earlier this year and he was pretty sick. He reckoned he was over the panel beating/painting thing.

I'm not sure what I'll ultimately do. I've heard some stories about even very expensive paint jobs having problems, many of which only become apparent after the car has been put back together. I suppose I could just break out the killrust and some good quality brushes :D

[slug_burner]

Pretty sure he's not. Last time I spoke to him was earlier this year and he was pretty sick. He reckoned he was over the panel beating/painting thing.

I'm not sure what I'll ultimately do. I've heard some stories about even very expensive paint jobs having problems, many of which only become apparent after the car has been put back together. I suppose I could just break out the killrust and some good quality brushes :D

With the right paint, brush application is the best way. We have been painting vehicles longer than we have been spraying paint.

[Dave_S]

With the right paint, brush application is the best way. We have been painting vehicles longer than we have been spraying paint.

I saw an article on the art of coach painting a while ago. A lot of work to do properly, but it looked great. And to save $20,000 I'd be prepared to do a lot of work :)

[steveG]

I've been really impressed with the improved finish from adding a bit of Penetrol to the paint when brushing.

Steve