Roving tracks CVs has anyone had experience

[Deefa]

I have found these CVS and axle kits at Lucky 8 in the states. Has anyone bought a set and experienced them?

Lucky8 Llc. - Take the road less traveled... (http://www.lucky8llc.com/Products.aspx?ProductID=7881)

There is a you tube vid here

New CVs - YouTube

Seem to be a good buy, although I already have Hi tuff axles but looking at the ashcroft site it appears these wont work with Hi tuff axles and the ashcroft CVs? Im a bit confused here! (Defender TD5 with abs)

[Jock The Rock]

Hey mate

I fitted a set of these to my old Deefer, had a minor issue with one of the splines not fitting a flange on fitment but got that all sorted in the end. They copped a pretty serious flogging with a tweaked 300Tdi,33s and a front locker down the West coast of Tassie and didn't have any dramas.

The only reason I fitted Ashcrofts to my new project was because they could do a package deal on flanges, CVs and shafts in one.

[clive22]

Hi

I thought Keith he stopped doing the Rover gear.

If i remember right he went under the name revor on this site

That said I've had a bit of Roving tracks gear (axles, trailing arms, steering) supplied and its all been fine, no CV's tough - bought Ashcroft and they have been great.,

Clive

[uninformed]

I have found these CVS and axle kits at Lucky 8 in the states. Has anyone bought a set and experienced them?

Lucky8 Llc. - Take the road less traveled... (http://www.lucky8llc.com/Products.aspx?ProductID=7881)

There is a you tube vid here

New CVs - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pczkS17rsZI&feature=c4-overview&list=UUUnCLXtAqip_9qd-T1NenbA)

Seem to be a good buy, although I already have Hi tuff axles but looking at the ashcroft site it appears these wont work with Hi tuff axles and the ashcroft CVs? Im a bit confused here! (Defender TD5 with abs)

Are you saying the Ashcroft cvs wont work with the Hi-Tough axles?

What axle type do you have? (age of vehicle, spline at diff and cv end)

What cvs were you looking at on Ashcrofts site?

[isuzutoo-eh]

Be careful. I bought Rover Tracks (now Roving Tracks) direct from RT. The axles don't physically fit through the swivel housing of some Landies without grinding out the swivel, and the proprietor of Roving Tracks fobbed the problem off without care.

I have bought stuff through Lucky 8 and have had no problem with them.

[Red90]

I thought Keith he stopped doing the Rover gear.

They started making them again. On sale through Luck8llc.om

Really the best deal out there and should be good for up to 35" tyres.

[Psimpson7]

I have had a set for a few years, bought direct from Keith.

No issues whatsoever on mine. Fitted perfectly, haven't shown any signs of breaking and I have zero concerns running fully locked, full steering lock, and full throttle on 35's

Not sure they do an ABS version however

[Slunnie]

I have found these CVS and axle kits at Lucky 8 in the states. Has anyone bought a set and experienced them?

Lucky8 Llc. - Take the road less traveled... (http://www.lucky8llc.com/Products.aspx?ProductID=7881)

Seem to be a good buy, although I already have Hi tuff axles but looking at the ashcroft site it appears these wont work with Hi tuff axles and the ashcroft CVs? Im a bit confused here! (Defender TD5 with abs)

It probably is using a different spline pattern between the CV and the half shaft. It really wouldn't surprise me if factory was 1.1" 32 spline at the CV end, Ashcroft 1.24" 24 spline and Roving Tracks a Toyota 27-30 spline or something like that.

[LowRanger]

I have found these CVS and axle kits at Lucky 8 in the states. Has anyone bought a set and experienced them?

Lucky8 Llc. - Take the road less traveled... (http://www.lucky8llc.com/Products.aspx?ProductID=7881)

There is a you tube vid here

New CVs - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pczkS17rsZI&feature=c4-overview&list=UUUnCLXtAqip_9qd-T1NenbA)

Seem to be a good buy, although I already have Hi tuff axles but looking at the ashcroft site it appears these wont work with Hi tuff axles and the ashcroft CVs? Im a bit confused here! (Defender TD5 with abs)

Unless Keith has changed his axles/cv's,you will find that the spline into the CV will be 31 spline and you can't use HiTough or Ashcroft axles with Keiths' Cv's.
But as far as using Hi Tough axles with Ashcroft CV's is concerned,then that is NO problem,as they are both 23 spline at the CV spline.
I had one of Keiths' CV's that became noisy and found out the hard way,when I went to replace it with an Ashcroft,and found the spline count to be different.I had to purchase a Hi Tough axle to fit the Ashcroft CV.
Either combination will be very strong,as I have given both a very hard time,probably as hard a time as possible,this side of a comp truck and have had no problem with either pieces of equipment.
The reason I replace Keiths' CV was because it was very noisy.This happens to aftermarket HD Cv's do to the design hardness.Ashcroft actually have a procedure to service the CV bell with a flapper wheel to remove flat spots in the ball tracks in the bell that cause noisy operation.I am sure that I could do the same thing with Keiths' CV that I have still laying around here,and it would be perfectly useable again,if mounted to Keiths' axle.I might do this and have it ready as a direct emergency replacement if I ever need it;)

[LowRanger]

Be careful. I bought Rover Tracks (now Roving Tracks) direct from RT. The axles don't physically fit through the swivel housing of some Landies without grinding out the swivel, and the proprietor of Roving Tracks fobbed the problem off without care.

I have bought stuff through Lucky 8 and have had no problem with them.

As has been mentioned plenty of times on the forum previously,the only vehicles that I have heard of with this problem have been early Defenders/110's,Pre '93 and have actually only heard of it with 110's,so noy sure when the swivel ball housing changed.

[MLD]

My experience with Lucky8 was less than satisfactory. I ordered a set of axles and CV's from them and asked if they supplied the axle seal being a different size to the OEM axles. That resulted in a confused response from Lucky8. I explained the difference between the 24/32 versus 24/23 spline axles and asked them to tell me the spline count so I could order the seal myself. That triggered a series of confused responses that they didn't understand what i was trying to do. I even suggested the old fashion way of marking a spline and counting the splines on the axle. Again a confused response. In the end I cancelled the order and paid double the price for the Ashcroft units. Lucky8 didn't seem to have the technical specs of the product they were selling so I wasn't confident I'd get what I wanted and didn't want to risk the cost, inconvenience and frustration.

I'd be reluctant to buy from Lucky8 unless someone else on the forum has bought from this batch and has had success. Especially if the specs are per Wayne's post.

MLD

[steveG]

The ones in my County were bought directly from Keith at Rovingtracks when it was still running. Had no dramas with them with and done about 40K km's so far. 255/85-16's and front locker but I don't drive it particularly hard.

Pretty sure Keith's original ones didn't have the ABS slots as I recall Ashcroft being the only option at the time if you wanted to retain ABS.
Since I don't have ABS the large price difference was a no brainer and I've been happy with them.

Steve

[dobbo]

I was in a small group buy, it cost me almost $1200, almost $400 was in shipping, six months plus to deliver and the work was subcontracted out. Thus, the quality off the finish was a bit to be desired. I was one of the lucky ones, my axles were at least the right length. Everything else still needs to go on a lathe to get rid of the burs. I admit with the strength of the 35 spline axles I have no need to ever buy them again, this is a good thing is good because I wouldn't. Not from the US anyway.

[Drover]

Had Ashcroft's CV's(abs), half shafts & drive flanges in for 3 years and 40,000k's.

Running 285/75x16's (33's).

No problems what so ever. As for price, if you order direct from Ahcroft's, split your order to avoid import duty the price is very reasonable.

Also just fitted Ashcroft's new HDP38 locker centre, front locker to come.....maybe a Xmas pressy.

[Vern]

Be careful. I bought Rover Tracks (now Roving Tracks) direct from RT. The axles don't physically fit through the swivel housing of some Landies without grinding out the swivel, and the proprietor of Roving Tracks fobbed the problem off without care.

I have bought stuff through Lucky 8 and have had no problem with them.

Exactly the same with me, still waiting on the correct drive flanges to be sent, that's been over 12 months now. If I was to go again, I'd go ashcrofts

[uninformed]

I can not comment on the CVs, but AFAIK there is a difference between the Rover/ing Tracks axles and MD/Hi-Tough, Ashcroft.

Put aside the difference in materials. MD/Hi-Tough and Ashcroft are all waisted down to the dia of minor spline (or there abouts) and have nice smooth transitons from different diameters. Im pretty sure the RT are just spline cut on the ends from the closest size blank.

Happy to be corrected???

[Slunnie]

Im pretty sure the RT are just spline cut on the ends from the closest size blank.

Happy to be corrected???

Are they still made by the mob who manufacture Longfield and Ashcroft axles

[Deefa]

Unless Keith has changed his axles/cv's,you will find that the spline into the CV will be 31 spline and you can't use HiTough or Ashcroft axles with Keiths' Cv's.
But as far as using Hi Tough axles with Ashcroft CV's is concerned,then that is NO problem,as they are both 23 spline at the CV spline.
I had one of Keiths' CV's that became noisy and found out the hard way,when I went to replace it with an Ashcroft,and found the spline count to be different.I had to purchase a Hi Tough axle to fit the Ashcroft CV.
Either combination will be very strong,as I have given both a very hard time,probably as hard a time as possible,this side of a comp truck and have had no problem with either pieces of equipment.
The reason I replace Keiths' CV was because it was very noisy.This happens to aftermarket HD Cv's do to the design hardness.Ashcroft actually have a procedure to service the CV bell with a flapper wheel to remove flat spots in the ball tracks in the bell that cause noisy operation.I am sure that I could do the same thing with Keiths' CV that I have still laying around here,and it would be perfectly useable again,if mounted to Keiths' axle.I might do this and have it ready as a direct emergency replacement if I ever need it;)

Thanks for clearing that up. As I already have the Hi tuff axles it may be easier for me just to go ashcrofts as I like the idea of interchangeability of Hi tuff and Ashcroft CVs if I do break something.

[Deefa]

I was in a small group buy, it cost me almost $1200, almost $400 was in shipping, six months plus to deliver and the work was subcontracted out. Thus, the quality off the finish was a bit to be desired. I was one of the lucky ones, my axles were at least the right length. Everything else still needs to go on a lathe to get rid of the burs. I admit with the strength of the 35 spline axles I have no need to ever buy them again, this is a good thing is good because I wouldn't. Not from the US anyway.

Wow $400 shipping seams over the top! What do ashcroft charge as a rule for shipping for a pair to Oz?

[cal415]

I run 2 sets, a set in my county and a set in my defender, no issues at all and the county had seen plenty of hard times on 37in tyres, 33s on the 130 but only done about 15k now. But as dobbo mentioned, i also run 35 spline dana60 bits in the rear of both trucks with parts supplied by keith, last batch of axles my long side was 15mm to long and needs trimming, luckily for me i had another set in the county i "Borrowed" for my recent trip to cape york, other than this i have had no issues with there parts and always found Keith was great to deal with.

[Red90]

Be careful. I bought Rover Tracks (now Roving Tracks) direct from RT. The axles don't physically fit through the swivel housing of some Landies without grinding out the swivel, and the proprietor of Roving Tracks fobbed the problem off without care.

I have bought stuff through Lucky 8 and have had no problem with them.

You seem confused. The Rovingtrack axle/CV set is designed ONLY for later model front axles, that were 24/32/24. They are not intended to fit earlier axles.

You are probably talking about some other product the Rovingtracks sold when they were in business....not the topic of this thread. Rovingtracks is not in business. He simply helped Lucky8 get more of the front axle/CV late model sets built.

[Red90]

Im pretty sure the RT are just spline cut on the ends from the closest size blank.

Happy to be corrected???

They are wasted. Lucky8 Llc. - Take the road less traveled... (http://lucky8llc.com/Products.aspx?ProductID=7881) Not sure why I'm the only one how can look something up.

[uninformed]

They are wasted. Lucky8 Llc. - Take the road less traveled... (http://lucky8llc.com/Products.aspx?ProductID=7881) Not sure why I'm the only one how can look something up.

Thanks for that. I pretty sure I have seen pics of non waisted RT axle shafts also? maybe they have changed the design. But even then going by those not so clear pics, it would seem that one end is not waisted down and that the transtions are a little aburpt…

Slunnie, I was refering to the axle shafts, not CVs. I know that RCV is/was making the CVs for both RT and Ashcroft, but no idea on the axle shaft side of things. I would have thought Ashcroft be making theirs in house?

[Vern]

Pretty sure mine are non waisted

[isuzutoo-eh]

You seem confused. The Rovingtrack axle/CV set is designed ONLY for later model front axles, that were 24/32/24. They are not intended to fit earlier axles.

You are probably talking about some other product the Rovingtracks sold when they were in business....not the topic of this thread. Rovingtracks is not in business. He simply helped Lucky8 get more of the front axle/CV late model sets built.

Yeah I forgot to include the word 'axles' in the first sentence. My bad. I told Keith I wanted to fit them to an '85 110 with Ashcroft ATB, he supplied the axles to suit. But they didn't suit as they didn't fit the swivel.
I don't have experience with Roving Tracks CVs, but after the problems I have had with their axles and after sales lack of service I wouldn't consider them a worthwhile purchase at all.

[MLD]

Wow $400 shipping seams over the top! What do ashcroft charge as a rule for shipping for a pair to Oz?

I recently bought Ashcroft CV's and half shafts. Without breaking it down (don't have the numbers at hand) it was $1,635 total cost incl CV's & half shafts, exchange rate, cartage, customs, GST, TNT handling fees. You can get the Ashcroft CV's and hi-tough axles from Les Richmond for about the same price add cost of cartage to your house. You might save $100 buying from Ashcroft direct compared to LRA. It's the sundry costs that adds up buying from the UK.

Another thing to consider is warranty. No question Ashcroft stand by their product but you don't have any legal recourse. Buying in Australia you preserve the statutory warranties for fitness for purpose that are in the Consumer Law nationally and the state equivalents (if they still operate after the Consumer Law inception. In NSW the relevant provisions of the Fair Trading Act were repealed but the implied warranties in the Sale of Goods Act remain in force).

MLD

[LowRanger]

Here is a picture of the then "Rover Tracks" axles.And they are 31spline outers;);)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/603.jpg

[steveG]

Here is a picture of the then "Rover Tracks" axles.And they are 31spline outers;);)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/603.jpg

And they look nothing like the Lucky8 ones in the original post. Rovingtracks ones had no ABS ring, and CV shape is quite different.
The photo you posted does look the same as the one that was on the Roving Tracks site (check out archive.org if anyone wants to see for them self).

IMO, unless someone has personal experience with this particular Lucky8 product any reference to the old Roving Tracks gear is irrelevant and they should be treated as a new unproven product regardless of who was supposedly involved in their design/manufacture.

Steve

[Deefa]

And they look nothing like the Lucky8 ones in the original post. Rovingtracks ones had no ABS ring, and CV shape is quite different.
The photo you posted does look the same as the one that was on the Roving Tracks site (check out archive.org if anyone wants to see for them self).

IMO, unless someone has personal experience with this particular Lucky8 product any reference to the old Roving Tracks gear is irrelevant and they should be treated as a new unproven product regardless of who was supposedly involved in their design/manufacture.

Steve

Yes I agree they are quite different. The photos on the Lucky 8 site are not quite clear enough to count how many splines, but I don't think its 31 spline.

The price is attractive as it includes the half shafts but as you say it really is an unproven product.

[Red90]

The new ones added the ABS rings. They are all made by RCV in the US, just like the Ashcroft ones are.

[Red90]

Thanks for that. I pretty sure I have seen pics of non waisted RT axle shafts also?

You are probably thinking of the rear axles that they made (when they were in business). These were not made by RCV and had little to do with the front axle/CV kits. The front axle/CV kits were built in conjunction Longfield. They used the same design as the Toyota CV joints with machining changes to fit the Rover axles and all produced by RCV. The rear axles were made somewhere else and were not chrome-moly and not wasted.

[uninformed]

You are probably thinking of the rear axles that they made (when they were in business). These were not made by RCV and had little to do with the front axle/CV kits. The front axle/CV kits were built in conjunction Longfield. They used the same design as the Toyota CV joints with machining changes to fit the Rover axles and all produced by RCV. The rear axles were made somewhere else and were not chrome-moly and not wasted.

I thought all of keiths axles where 4340?

[Red90]

No other than these front sets made in conjunction with Longfield and the Toy front conversions also made with Longfield. His other axles were 1541H that he had made somewhere else, Moser, I think.

[djam1]

Am I missing something here or is there a significant increase in strength at the CV end of the axle.
Surely there wouldn't be that much difference between the 32 spline maxi drive axle and the 31 spline ??

[Bush65]

Am I missing something here or is there a significant increase in strength at the CV end of the axle.
Surely there wouldn't be that much difference between the 32 spline maxi drive axle and the 31 spline ??
I think you are missing the specification about the size (DP or module) of the splines. They are vastly different, the 32 spline being very inferior.

[Deefa]

The new ones added the ABS rings. They are all made by RCV in the US, just like the Ashcroft ones are.

so the same product?

[isuzurover]

Am I missing something here or is there a significant increase in strength at the CV end of the axle.
Surely there wouldn't be that much difference between the 32 spline maxi drive axle and the 31 spline ??

As John says - the spline count doesn't tell you diameter.

e.g. Landrover spline counts and diameters are:

1.1" OD 10-spline (most series)
1.24" OD 24-spline (most coilers)

1.0" OD 32-spline (defender CV inner)

1.47" OD 21-spline (FC 101)

Toyota use a 1.3" OD 30-spline which some of Keith's early products used. To make life complex Dana have a 1.3" 30-spline as well, however it has a different pressure angle - so they are not interchangeable and not the same strength even when made from the same material.

[Red90]

I was under the impression that these axle sets used a Toyota 27 spline for the CV inner. They were using the Longfield parts directly for the inner to keep the price down.

Attached is my comparison of various axles with strength comparison (solely based on polar modulus). I believe the Toyota splines use the same pitch, so are similar to the Dana spline strengths.

[LowRanger]

[COLOR="DarkGreen"]
I was under the impression that these axle sets used a Toyota 27 spline for the CV inner. They were using the Longfield parts directly for the inner to keep the price down.

Attached is my comparison of various axles with strength comparison (solely based on polar modulus). I believe the Toyota splines use the same pitch, so are similar to the Dana spline strengths.

Just went out and checked the axle and CV's for the sixth time,and now I need to remove my foot from my mouth.I counted the splines 5 time the other day and counted 31 every time.Today I have counted again and have come up with 30 splines:oops2:

[djam1]

Wayne whats the quality like?
Very tempted to order a set but heard disparaging remarks about the quality!

[Bush65]

I was under the impression that these axle sets used a Toyota 27 spline for the CV inner. They were using the Longfield parts directly for the inner to keep the price down.

Attached is my comparison of various axles with strength comparison (solely based on polar modulus). I believe the Toyota splines use the same pitch, so are similar to the Dana spline strengths.




Just goes to show that you shouldn't believe everything you are told.
I have the axles and CV's here on the bench,and I can assure you they are 31 spline ;)
Pre 80 series cruiser and hilux the half shafts were 27 spline at the cv's and 30 spline at the diff.

Longfield had upgraded cv's with 27 splines or 30 spline, which allows stronger half shafts over the 27 spline version. They reduced the diameter of the balls to allow the increase to 30 spline.

IIRC:

Sam Overton (strangerover) started the axle and cv upgrade for rovers, when he had jacmac make halfshafts so modified toyota 27 spline cv's could be used with rover front axle assemblies, he also had the bronze bushes made for the conversion.

When longfield bought out the 30 spline version, Keith used them with 30/30 half shafts for the toy diff upgrade for rover axle assemblies.

These toyota cv's required minor mods to the rover spindles.

Keith later had cv's made with changes to the stub axles so they drop in without modifying the spindles, similar in that way to what Ashcroft cv's offered, but they were still 30 spline (not 31 spline), which allowed stronger half shafts compared to Ashcroft.

I'm inclined to think Wayne has had a memory lapse quoting 31 spline and it should instead be 30 spline. 31 spline is what Nissan use and is out of line with the others.

[LowRanger]

Wayne whats the quality like?
Very tempted to order a set but heard disparaging remarks about the quality!

I have the Cv's without the ABS rings,and the quality is first class.I run 35's and have given them a hard time and they are fine.I do make the proviso that you need to make sure that they are the correct type for your application,or you could have problems with fitment like Mark and others have had when trying to fit them to early 110's.I also have a couple of sets of Ashcroft CV's here and the finish is virtually identical,adding credence to the fact that they come out of the same factory.

[LowRanger]

Pre 80 series cruiser and hilux the half shafts were 27 spline at the cv's and 30 spline at the diff.

Longfield had upgraded cv's with 27 splines or 30 spline, which allows stronger half shafts over the 27 spline version. They reduced the diameter of the balls to allow the increase to 30 spline.

IIRC:

Sam Overton (strangerover) started the axle and cv upgrade for rovers, when he had jacmac make halfshafts so modified toyota 27 spline cv's could be used with rover front axle assemblies, he also had the bronze bushes made for the conversion.

When longfield bought out the 30 spline version, Keith used them with 30/30 half shafts for the toy diff upgrade for rover axle assemblies.

These toyota cv's required minor mods to the rover spindles.

Keith later had cv's made with changes to the stub axles so they drop in without modifying the spindles, similar in that way to what Ashcroft cv's offered, but they were still 30 spline (not 31 spline), which allowed stronger half shafts compared to Ashcroft.

I'm inclined to think Wayne has had a memory lapse quoting 31 spline and it should instead be 30 spline. 31 spline is what Nissan use and is out of line with the others.
John
It wasn't a memory lapse,it was simple tiredness and miscounting 5 times.I have now extricated foot from mouth and edited a previous post to show the correct spline count at 30.

[LowRanger]

I case anyone is interested,here is a photo of the writing on the CV
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/515.jpg

As you can see,it is branded as Empi !!!

[Michele]

I was under the impression that these axle sets used a Toyota 27 spline for the CV inner. They were using the Longfield parts directly for the inner to keep the price down.

Hi John,

the early ones did.
The last incarnation went up to 30 if memory serves me well (so I'd better check), but I'm not sure, it's been a while...

I ran both (and I'm still running the latest type), I still have the old ones to check...

I don't know about these new ones L8 is selling, but it was a nice setup,
although "soft" and prone to clicking (and mine do it loud :( ).
I tried to "deburr" them, as someone suggested, but it made no difference, at least not in the long run.

[Michele]

I'm inclined to think (...) it should instead be 30 spline. 31 spline is what Nissan use and is out of line with the others.

I'm inclined to think the same ^^^

[uninformed]

Pre 80 series cruiser and hilux the half shafts were 27 spline at the cv's and 30 spline at the diff.

Longfield had upgraded cv's with 27 splines or 30 spline, which allows stronger half shafts over the 27 spline version. They reduced the diameter of the balls to allow the increase to 30 spline.

IIRC:

Sam Overton (strangerover) started the axle and cv upgrade for rovers, when he had jacmac make halfshafts so modified toyota 27 spline cv's could be used with rover front axle assemblies, he also had the bronze bushes made for the conversion.

When longfield bought out the 30 spline version, Keith used them with 30/30 half shafts for the toy diff upgrade for rover axle assemblies.

These toyota cv's required minor mods to the rover spindles.

Keith later had cv's made with changes to the stub axles so they drop in without modifying the spindles, similar in that way to what Ashcroft cv's offered, but they were still 30 spline (not 31 spline), which allowed stronger half shafts compared to Ashcroft.

I'm inclined to think Wayne has had a memory lapse quoting 31 spline and it should instead be 30 spline. 31 spline is what Nissan use and is out of line with the others.

John, how is the Hi-lux CV stronger than a AEU2522? AFAIK, the balls, cage and star are interchangeable. Is it simply because of the input/output spline shaft size?

[Bush65]

John, how is the Hi-lux CV stronger than a AEU2522? AFAIK, the balls, cage and star are interchangeable. Is it simply because of the input/output spline shaft size?
Larger diameter stub shaft.

Stock cv's are made from a steel grade that is hard, in the heat treated state, to give a long wear life. The downside is brittleness that leads to breakage from impact loads.

Going back a good few years, Bobby Long started re-heat treating the hilux and early cruiser cv's to reduce the hardness and improve impact quality. He also welded a ring onto the bell to make it stronger when the balls were running near the edge on full steering lock.

You will no doubt remember that Sam started to do these modifications at Haultec.

With the popularity increasing sales, Bobby Long went to a manufacturer and had them make new cv's from materials that improved the strength/toughness even further and made some changes to the design so they were stronger on full steering lock.

You can't compare the strength of stock AEU2522 cv's to the tougher cv's.

Just as you can't compare the wear life, lower for the softer aftermarket cv's, as per Michele's post. Note the wear life of the aftermarket cv's is also reduced by their use of smaller balls, which results in an increase of the Hertzian contact stress.

[Deefa]

Do the ashcroft CVs wear faster than stock CVs then?

[uninformed]

Larger diameter stub shaft.

Stock cv's are made from a steel grade that is hard, in the heat treated state, to give a long wear life. The downside is brittleness that leads to breakage from impact loads.

Going back a good few years, Bobby Long started re-heat treating the hilux and early cruiser cv's to reduce the hardness and improve impact quality. He also welded a ring onto the bell to make it stronger when the balls were running near the edge on full steering lock.

You will no doubt remember that Sam started to do these modifications at Haultec.

With the popularity increasing sales, Bobby Long went to a manufacturer and had them make new cv's from materials that improved the strength/toughness even further and made some changes to the design so they were stronger on full steering lock.

You can't compare the strength of stock AEU2522 cv's to the tougher cv's.

Just as you can't compare the wear life, lower for the softer aftermarket cv's, as per Michele's post. Note the wear life of the aftermarket cv's is also reduced by their use of smaller balls, which results in an increase of the Hertzian contact stress.

I thought Longfield, and therefore those following, went back to standard size balls due to what you said (Hertzian contact stress) I believe he went to smaller balls to increase the material thickness in the bell. For its thinest part, even 1mm on radius would be a increase in strength, and I know that a 2mm bigger CV would have fit in the Rover housings. Not sure on the Toyota stuff.

[Bush65]

I thought Longfield, and therefore those following, went back to standard size balls due to what you said (Hertzian contact stress) I believe he went to smaller balls to increase the material thickness in the bell. For its thinest part, even 1mm on radius would be a increase in strength, and I know that a 2mm bigger CV would have fit in the Rover housings. Not sure on the Toyota stuff.
Perhaps so. I stopped following this stuff after changing to 80 series Longfield cv's and part time 4x4.

Even with standard balls the softer material (4340 and 300M) will still wear more than harder stock cv's.

[dero]

Could one of you knowledgeable gents please simplify this for me .
I have a 97 130 Defender converted to Hitough axels & AEU2522 CV;s , is there a quality CV other than Ashcroft at a more reasonable price ?

[Deefa]

Could one of you knowledgeable gents please simplify this for me .
I have a 97 130 Defender converted to Hitough axels & AEU2522 CV;s , is there a quality CV other than Ashcroft at a more reasonable price ?

Basically thats the question i first asked at the very beginning of this thread and its turned into a lesson in molecular engineering!

[LowRanger]

Could one of you knowledgeable gents please simplify this for me .
I have a 97 130 Defender converted to Hitough axels & AEU2522 CV;s , is there a quality CV other than Ashcroft at a more reasonable price ?

The simple answer is NO;)

[Bush65]

Could one of you knowledgeable gents please simplify this for me .
I have a 97 130 Defender converted to Hitough axels & AEU2522 CV;s , is there a quality CV other than Ashcroft at a more reasonable price ?
There is nothing wrong with the quality of genuine stock AEU2522 cv's. They are stronger than the later cv's used by Land Rover, and allow stronger half shafts.

Ashcroft replacements are not better quality, they are designed and manufactured to increase the strength, at the cost of some reduction in wear life.

Some people will break stock AEU2522 cv's often enough that they benefit from the stronger replacements. Often those same people don't clock up large km's so wear doesn't concern them.

Some of the cheap, non genuine, replacements for the AEU2522 have a higher failure rate.

[steveG]

There is nothing wrong with the quality of genuine stock AEU2522 cv's. They are stronger than the later cv's used by Land Rover, and allow stronger half shafts.

Ashcroft replacements are not better quality, they are designed and manufactured to increase the strength, at the cost of some reduction in wear life.

Some people will break stock AEU2522 cv's often enough that they benefit from the stronger replacements. Often those same people don't clock up large km's so wear doesn't concern them.

Some of the cheap, non genuine, replacements for the AEU2522 have a higher failure rate.

My previous understanding was that genuine AEU2522's were no longer available, but I've just had a look and they seem to be pretty easy to get from the UK, albeit prices vary wildly. First couple I found were GBP150 each at Devon4x4, and GBP511 each at LRSeries :eek:
Ashcroft at GBP425/pair aren't unreasonably priced in comparison.
Non-genuine at $100 each locally on ebay.

Steve

[Vern]

Are the genuine ones made by gkn? I recall reading that the gkn ones were the best stock cv, may have been on outers and may have been from Keith himself. Keith sent me some cryo'd gkn's to try, says they are stronger but not of the strength of long fields/ashcrofts

[djam1]

If only it were possible to do business with these guys
Emails seem to be ignored and the website won't allow you to pay for the additional freight to Australia
Really frustrating

[uninformed]

AFAIK, the original AEU2522 were made by GKN and no longer are.

[Bush65]

Are the genuine ones made by gkn? I recall reading that the gkn ones were the best stock cv, may have been on outers and may have been from Keith himself. Keith sent me some cryo'd gkn's to try, says they are stronger but not of the strength of long fields/ashcrofts
Correct.

Stock cv's have a high tensile strength, which makes the static load capacity high. I don't know for sure, but they could be stronger than aftermarket cv's.

Tensile strength is related to hardness. But brittleness increases with higher hardness.

And it is shock loading that breaks cv's. This is where the aftermarket Longfields and Ashcroft have an advantage. They use material that has high impact energy properties with high hardness.

But they can't be hardened to as high a value as the high carbon steels stock cv's are made from.

There are even better materials for high impact and hardness, readily available, that will produce far stronger cv's, but no one has used them yet. They stick with what they understand, developed from axle upgrades, isolated from technology for high impact applications.

To market cv's it is only necessary to describe them as "chrome moly and 300M" so the cool peeps understand (not!).