Series 1 Station Wagon Indicators

[101RRS]

Can someone explain to me how the indicators on a series 1 station wagon work?

At the rear do they work through the tail light globe or the stop light globe. An if through the tail light globe does the brake light globe switch off when the indicators are on?

At the front - I assume it works through the parker globe - if the parker light is on I assume the indicators just interrupt power to the parker.

How is all this controlled - is there some sort of module that does all this?

Thanks

Garry

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hi Gary

It depends upon what type. The NAS blinkers have a module that sits between the switch and the lamp that cuts the side or tail light signal and allows it to flash. It is worth noting that the front side lamp fittings for the NAS use double pole/single filament fittings not the ones that have two filaments (like the stop tail).

On the British type they mainly used trafficators but also used either a separate lamp (rear) or a double filament fitting (front). so a stop tail lamp fitting with a clear or opaque white lens. (Which means you flash from 5W to 26W in white, not amber)

There are modern after-market fittings for some of the British cars of the 1950s that have both a clear globe and an amber globe for the blinkers. But have never seen them in the L-489/1 suitable for your S1 Land Rover.

http://www.vintagecarparts.co.uk/m/products/1/9/2691/0297a-ind-3.jpg

Doesn't stop you making one yourself.

[JDNSW]

Blinkers did not become a legal substitute for hand signals in Australia until the mid to late 1950s, so I would be very surprised if any Series 1 Landrovers came from the dealer fitted with them. (Trafficators were not legal either, despite many UK origin cars being fitted with them)

Many Series 1 Landrovers were fitted with after market blinkers after these appeared on new cars from the mid fifties onward, and especially after they became compulsory for new cars about 1960. My Series 1 (traded on a 1958 Series 2 in 1964) never had them. I fitted blinkers to the Series 2 shortly after I got it. Its replacement, the 1961 2a, had blinkers from new.

John

[101RRS]

It depends upon what type. The NAS blinkers have a module that sits between the switch and the lamp that cuts the side or tail light signal and allows it to flash. It is worth noting that the front side lamp fittings for the NAS use double pole/single filament fittings not the ones that have two filaments (like the stop tail).

On the British type they mainly used trafficators

By NAS - I assume you mean North American Spec? Aussie SW were of course Brit spec but I can see the NAS system working OK except it would be difficult to see the red indicator flashing when the much brighter brake lights were on - hence I assumes that the flasher would be on the brake light rather than the tail light. I don't know about the Tickford Station wagons but I don't believe trafficators (by that I assume the turning flags) were used on the station wagons.


Blinkers did not become a legal substitute for hand signals in Australia until the mid to late 1950s, so I would be very surprised if any Series 1 Landrovers came from the dealer fitted with them.
John

Thanks John - you are totally correct for "normal" series 1s but as far as I am aware the SWB Station Wagons being the top of the range vehicles came with indicators that operated through the tail/stop lamps. They did not have an indicator stalk on the steering column but a switch on the dash just to the right of the center instrument cluster.

Cheers

Garry

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hi Garry,

Yes you are correct NAS = North American Spec, however to correct myself, I believe during Series 1, it was "North American Dollar Area" (NADA).

If you watch the rear of US cars when the blinkers are on, both the stop and tail lamps flash, or at least they extinguish intermittantly. It has to do with the modules fitted and may be that it opens the vehicle ground link (why they need two pole globes in the front). Perhaps one of our US colleagues can explain further.

Diana

[123rover50]

UK Tickfords had Trafficators housed in the rear of the front mudguards.
Export Tickfords had double filament bulbs in the Lucas 488,s

Keith

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Keith

Did the Tickfords use the L488s?

I wonder why they went to the smaller lens L489 in the later models. Perhaps it was that one was a side light and the Tickford a flasher.

Diana

[123rover50]

Yes 488,s both ends.
Here is a page from the Lucas 1950 Station Wagon parts list.

Keith

[digger]

Im fairly sure a flashing brake/tail light is not a legal indicator.

In australia (now) it must be an amber lens.

[JDNSW]

Im fairly sure a flashing brake/tail light is not a legal indicator.

In australia (now) it must be an amber lens.

I think this has always been the case - for example, right when blinkers were first legal, in the late fifties, the Chevrolets with horizontal fins were fitted with extra lights under the fins for the blinkers.

As I commented above, for most (if not all) of Series 1 production blinkers were not legal to use. They became legal shortly after I did my driving test in January 1958.

John

[chazza]

As a small boy I distinctly remember some cars with flashing red (brake) lights - because it was rather unusual - in WA. I am not up with my Holden models but the FE? is the car I remember.

This may have been a case of someone modifying their own car of course, but if anyone knows Holdens well; what did they use in the 1950's for indicators?

Cheers Charlie

[JDNSW]

As a small boy I distinctly remember some cars with flashing red (brake) lights - because it was rather unusual - in WA. I am not up with my Holden models but the FE? is the car I remember.

This may have been a case of someone modifying their own car of course, but if anyone knows Holdens well; what did they use in the 1950's for indicators?

Cheers Charlie

My memory says the first with indicators was the FB. Before that Holden drivers used hand signals, the same as everyone else. It is very likely that some owners fitted blinkers to the FE and FC using the existing lights, hence the red rear blinkers, but I doubt these were ever legal in any state (quite possible though - rules differed a lot more between states in those days!).

John

[101RRS]

Thanks for the comments - here is the response I got on another Landie forum.

"Series One station wagons uses 12v 21/5 watt stop and tail bulbs in both front and rear lamps. In normal conditions the flasher system flashes the 21 watt filament in the front / rear bulb on the side selected. The flasher switch is a special one that has both the flasher circuit connected and the brake lights. With the flasher switch in the off position the brake lights are connected together and work as normal when you operate the brake.
When the flasher switch is operated , say to LH Flash position, the LH brake light is disconnected from the brake circuit and used as the flasher instead. The RH brake light works as normal. The side lights ( parking) operate as normal. LUCAS made a relay DB10 which will do all this a well but Land Rover used the LUCAS PRS7 switch instead. Rover Part 2643702. Hella also do a similar switch which will carry out the same function."

So it would seem that it is the brake light filament that flashes.

This is the switch panel - it has the switch for the indicators and the switch for the interior light.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/My%20Series%20Landies/Pic048_zpsd564a516.jpg (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/gazzz21/media/My%20Series%20Landies/Pic048_zpsd564a516.jpg.html)

Thanks

Garry

[S3ute]

My memory says the first with indicators was the FB.

John

Hello from Brisbane.

My late Dad bought a new FC Holden ute and it didn't have indicators - other than the arm out the window. That might have been a 'Special' vs 'standard' thing. However, I don't recall my granfather's EK having them either, but it might have. The first Holden we had with indicators was a new EH ute, but I am pretty sure the EJ already had them as standard.

I think VW beetles were probably one of the first mass produced cars on Australian roads to have flashing indicators.

Cheers,

[S3ute]

Hello from Brisbane.

My late Dad bought a new FC Holden ute and it didn't have indicators ,

Hello again, for what it is worth I actually meant FB...............

Been years since I owned or drove a Holden, which might partly explain the basis of a few other recent posts about the company's future.

Cheers,

[JDNSW]

The EK definitely had them - The first company car I drove was one of them in 1962.

The first car I struck with Blinkers was the Renault 750 (known elsewhere as the 4CV), which had the blinkers on ears on the 'C' pillar, so that they could be seen both in front and behind. That was in, I think, 1952, owned by the parents of one of my school friends. VW at that time, and for a number of years after that, had trafficators, but VWs were almost unheard of in those days. And neither blinkers nor trafficators were legal substitutes for hand signals.

John

[bobslandies]

Im fairly sure a flashing brake/tail light is not a legal indicator.

In australia (now) it must be an amber lens.

Hi Digger,

There are some fairly modern Ford Mustangs, lhd fully registered in NSW that have RED flashers below the waistline of the car that run sequentially across the rear of the vehicle (from the centre) to the direction the vehicle will turn.

Must be a special exemption under the Free Trade Agreement:p:p:p

Like these:
http://www.americanmuscle.com/mustang-sequential-taillights-9904.html

Bob

[UncleHo]

My growing up in Qld in the 50's I can remember that with Holdens FE/FC Specials had Flashers (red via the stop filament) with it an optional extra on "Standard & Commercials" right up until 1961 when flashing indicators became standard and also standardised nationwide as Amber, NSW Vehicles had them in a rear Amber lower lens within the light body, this carried onto the FB/EK commercial range, the EK sedans & wagons were the first model fitted with flashers as standard equipment.

The Chevrolets of 59 were fitted with "Teardrop" rear flashers which were from 41/42 US pickups,later US vehicles had their red lens rear flashers either supplemented/replaced with generic 2" (50mm) surface mount lights

It is only now, as historic vehicles are some of these reverting to red rear flashers.

There were Lucas aftermarket semifore light kits for Series 1's which used the Rover steering wheel hub switch,or the Morris Minor series 1 toggle switch on a supplimentary dash panel

A popular thing with older vehicles is to fit motorcycle flashers to the front and rear bumper mount bolts.

cheers

[Lotz-A-Landies]

...
There were Lucas aftermarket semifore light kits for Series 1's which used the Rover steering wheel hub switch,or the Morris Minor series 1 toggle switch on a supplimentary dash panel

...

cheersI don't know that they were after-market trafficators, rather they were optional extras.

In the post 1948 80" the trafficator mounting blocks were a standard part of the 80" windscreen frame and trafficators were standed equipment on British Army 80"

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/277.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/278.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/279.jpg

[UncleHo]

They well could have been optional extras,I acquired a set some years ago at a swap meet,they now grace a friend's nicely restored 49 model 80" which boasts a front Capstan winch and a rear Flat belt drive,and he often drives a little pump attached to a 12 gallon drum pumping coloured water at display days that vehicle is immaculate :D

[1950landy]

My memory says the first with indicators was the FB. Before that Holden drivers used hand signals, the same as everyone else. It is very likely that some owners fitted blinkers to the FE and FC using the existing lights, hence the red rear blinkers, but I doubt these were ever legal in any state (quite possible though - rules differed a lot more between states in those days!).

John
My FE Holden came out with indicators , the switch was built into the column , it had a special relay that stoped the sytop light working on the side you were using the indicators ( Mk Jaguar indicators work the same way) I wired the indicators into the reverse lights & fitted amber bulbs . The FC from what i can remember had amber glass where the reverse lights were under the tail lights.

[1950landy]

This is how I fitted indicators on my 80" ,I found these period after market indicators at a swap. There are some good LED motor bike indicator lights around that look 50's period that give brighter lights. I also have trafficators fitted but because I have my mirrors mounted on the windscreen they won't come all the way out. If you have guard mounted park lights you can fit double fillment bulb holders in them .

[UncleHo]

Yep, the old "Campbell" pattern lights, used throughout the 50's & 60's as clearance and side/rear lamps on trucks etc. I love the indicator switch,very similar to those supplied in Lucas indicator kits of the time, which had an indicator globe in the hub, they were often fitted on a dash accessory plate mounted near the driver's door (retro fit by Army to early S2's)

cheers

[Lotz-A-Landies]

They well could have been optional extras,I acquired a set some years ago at a swap meet,they now grace a friend's nicely restored 49 model 80" which boasts a front Capstan winch and a rear Flat belt drive,and he often drives a little pump attached to a 12 gallon drum pumping coloured water at display days that vehicle is immaculate :DInteresting, the front capstan winch was definately an after-market accessory on a 1949 model. In fact most 1949 models need to trim the back corners of the capstan mounting plate to fit between the grill mounting bracket. :angel:

The front capstan winch was not an optional extra till very late in 1950. R06108610 the first vehicle recorded with a winch to be sold in NSW. Rear PTO were commonplace, but even they have differences between the very early 1948 and later models. The PTO serial should be below the chassis number.

[1950landy]

Interesting, the front capstan winch was definately an after-market accessory on a 1949 model. In fact most 1949 models need to trim the back corners of the capstan mounting plate to fit between the grill mounting bracket. :angel:

The front capstan winch was not an optional extra till very late in 1950. R06108610 the first vehicle recorded with a winch to be sold in NSW. Rear PTO were commonplace, but even they have differences between the very early 1948 and later models. The PTO serial should be below the chassis number.
My chassis no is 06103798 the vehicle is date stamped on radiator & wheels 10/49. I did not hace to trim the plate to fit the winch

[101RRS]

How did we get from indicators to winches - admittedly I have my answers thanks to everyone so I guess the thread is now open, with my blessing, for discussion in any direction as long as it stays on series 1 stuff :D.

Might be hard if someone comes along later searching for information on series winches though. :)

Garry

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Just the notion of after-market and optional extras. My fault. :BigCry:

[101RRS]

Just the notion of after-market and optional extras. My fault. :BigCry:

Not at all - we are all here to learn - go for it :cool: