77c/l up to 94c/l in one hit

[Richard93Vogue]

So....anyone else a bit annoyed about the latest price gouge? Up 17 cents over night here in Maitland.:mad::mad::mad:

[pommy]

Guess you are talking about gas yes think it is now cheaper to run my disco on petrol.....!!!!

[scarry]

Already been a thread on this,price gouging is what it seems:mad:

[ozscott]

High price is mainly due to demand in European winter for heating...that and record high price. Should go down a lot in our winter. Still cheap to me with injected LPG that gets damn near the same economy as petrol and mine likes premium petrol.

Cheere

[Sprint]

I dont know why you're all complaining..... barbecue fuel is $1.149/litre in Emerald....

[russdog]

I was in Cairns on holiday (fly in fly out ) in August this year & it was over $1.50 / LT !! can't remember exactly , but it caught my attention as I'm heading to Cape York next July in my Disco with a very large alloy lpg tank (148 usable LT'S ) may be now not such a cheap trip !

[Dougal]

In the rest of the world it's uneconomic to run vehicles on LPG due to the price of the gas.
Australia is catching up.

[ozscott]

That's simply not correct...uk and rest of eu is big on LPG. See for eg http://www.fuel-economy.co.uk/fuels2.shtml

On injected systems it will make sense to run LPG in aus for many many years - cheaper, more useable torque for towing, safer than petrol (yes...safer) and cleaner emissions than anything but electric .

CHEERS

[bee utey]

In the rest of the world it's uneconomic to run vehicles on LPG due to the price of the gas.
Australia is catching up.
New Zealand is not the rest of the world.

[ozscott]

Now that right there is bloody funny!

Cheers

[Dougal]

That's simply not correct...uk and rest of eu is big on LPG. See for eg Alternative Fuels » Fuel-Economy.co.uk (http://www.fuel-economy.co.uk/fuels2.shtml)

Only in forklifts, classic cars and taxis they converted from TD27's to run in the LEZ.
Over 50% of european cars are diesel. LPG is only a blip on the radar.

I'd be keen to see any stats you've got on LPG cars vs petrol and diesel.


New Zealand is not the rest of the world.

Since when?;)

[ozscott]

Go and ask anyone who actually drives an lpg vehicle as to torque (think slow burn). As for safety have a bit of a think about tank thickness, tank placement, front and rear auto shutoff solenoids, tanks that can often withstand fire, fully closed refueling. As for emissions go look it up yourself.

Blip my arse.

I assume you are a fanatical diesel driver who has been running an LR at a higher cost than those that run LPG :; missing out on the v8 sound can make people bitter

[Dougal]

Go and ask anyone who actually drives an lpg vehicle as to torque. Think about tank thickness, tank placement, front and rear auto shutoff solenoids, tanks that can often withstand fire, fully closed refueling. As for emissions go look it up yourself.

Blip my arse.

Huh?
I didn't say anything about torque, tank thickness, placement, valves, fire or any of that rubbish.

What are you on about?

[ozscott]

You asked for stats. I assumed you meant stats as to what I had posted about safety, torque etc...??? What stats do you mean?

[Dougal]

You asked for stats. I assumed you meant stats as to what I had posted about safety, torque etc...??? What stats do you mean?

Numbers of cars using each fuel type.

[ozscott]

http://www.thegreencarwebsite.co.uk/blog/index.php/2010/02/12/lpg-conversion-a-helpful-guide/

Growing all the time too. Massive resources of it...in Oz we export a lot. Way of the future mate.

Cheers

[Dougal]

I assume you are a fanatical diesel driver

Correct so far, but I do own petrols every now and then.


who has been running an LR at a higher cost than those that run LPG :; missing out on the v8 sound can make people bitter

My V8 rangie is attempting to bankrupt me, but that's another story. LPG cost here is around $NZ1.60/litre which converts almost exactly to what they pay in the UK. Unleaded around $NZ2.20, high octane another 6-10c/litre.

Long term I can only see the AU LPG price hitting parity with the rest of the world. That would be ~$AU1.40 at present plus/minus tax adjustment.

[Dougal]

LPG conversion - a helpful guide (http://www.thegreencarwebsite.co.uk/blog/index.php/2010/02/12/lpg-conversion-a-helpful-guide/)

Growing all the time too. Massive resources of it...in Oz we export a lot. Way of the future mate.

Cheers

No stats about usage in that link.

[Dougal]

This UK report has the interesting data on pages 22-23: http://www.ukpia.com/files/pdf/statsreview2012.pdf

It shows petrol consumption has been declining in the UK since 1990.
It shows diesel consumption has been increasing steadily but hit a peak in 2007 (GFC) and is now recovering to almost that level.
It shows LPG consumption declining since 2006. With a spike in LPG from 2000-2006 due to the london congestion charges (low emissions zone LEZ).

2011 sales in the UK (transport only).
Petrol ~19 billion litres.
Diesel ~25 billion litres.
LPG ~ 190 million litres

[ozscott]

Wiki has stats for each country. For some its going up for some down. I lpg goes up to 1.40 petrol and diesel will still be much higher. I can see why you are not pleased with lpg in nz but dont tar us with the same brush matey.

Cheers

[Dougal]

Wiki has stats for each country. For some its going up for some down. I lpg goes up to 1.40 petrol and diesel will still be much higher. I can see why you are not pleased with lpg in nz but dont tar us with the same brush matey.

Cheers

I'm not tarring anyone. In NZ we used to have LPG prices similar to Aus. Then without warning they got cranked over a short space of time to meet international prices.

Prior to that we had a lot of LPG falcons as taxis and the like. Now I can't recall the last time I saw an LPG vehicle on the road or being filled.

[ozscott]

Its all good here mate. Its going up slowly as a yearly average but so is other fuels. It is here to stay. There is a lot of RnD going into it still. The systems now are very sophisticated and just getting better each few years. I wont go into direct liquid LP that HSV use here for eg but there is plenty of development left.

Cheers

[scarry]

At 95c/litre,for many people not really worth having,particularly after installation costs of the latest injection systems.

If you have a petrol large 4x4,it may save you a few $,but only around town,as in the regional areas the prices for LPG are ridiculous.

The other issue is the vehicle is often modified and actually has a reduced petrol capacity from original,or in some cases the LPG tank takes up a lot of room inside the vehicle.

In a late model large 4x4,diesel would be my first choice.Actual fuel costs would be very similar to running the vehicle on LPG,without the additional costs of modifying the vehicle and fitting the LPG system.

[ozscott]

The point is it's not going to be at this price long term...it will come back. Also when diesel hits $2 pl LPG will still average about half that for a whole year (ie taking into account summer and winter in Europe that affects our LPG costs). My linked scuba tanks x3 takes up very little room in my d2 with its high roof...and original petrol tank. I know not everyone will go for that but plenty have and will continue to do so.

My LPG system allows me running costs for fuel at less than a td5 or TDV6.

Cheers

[Dougal]

The point is it's not going to be at this price long term...it will come back. Also when diesel hits $2 pl LPG will still average about half that for a whole year (ie taking into account summer and winter in Europe that affects our LPG costs). My linked scuba tanks x3 takes up very little room in my d2 with its high roof...and original petrol tank. I know not everyone will go for that but plenty have and will continue to do so.

My LPG system allows me running costs for fuel at less than a td5 or TDV6.

Cheers

How much gas does your D2 use?

[benji]

Thanks Dougal; if you don't mind ozscott, what system is on your d2?

Price jumped from 71.9 to 91.9 in Bendigo. The government won't do a thing now add they're collecting excise on it. The sad thing is I see a lot of people who buy ex taxis and put in literally $5 every few days just so they can get the kids to school. Pretty soon those on welfare won't be able to run a vehicle. .....

Sent from my GT-I9305T using AULRO mobile app

[ozscott]

18 l per 100k and that is in and out to Brisbane not highway - stop start - with 31in light truck tyres, Rhino Rack, TJM Winch bar minus winch, LPG weight etc. As LPG averages across the year even now at half the price of diesel or premium petrol that's the equivalent of 9l per 100k and better on the highway, so you can see why I personally like it.

The system is a BRC Impco Plug n Drive Sequential that does up to 400hp engines.

For some stats from about 2010 in Australia see http://www.otogaz.com.tr/pdf/index.php?lang=tr&page=9&rekPressDw=14

Cheers

[Dougal]

18 l per 100k and that is in and out to Brisbane not highway - stop start - with 31in light truck tyres, Rhino Rack, TJM Winch bar minus winch, LPG weight etc. As LPG averages across the year even now at half the price of diesel or premium petrol that's the equivalent of 9l per 100k and better on the highway, so you can see why I personally like it.

The system is a BRC Impco Plug n Drive Sequential that does up to 400hp engines.

For some stats from about 2010 in Australia see http://www.otogaz.com.tr/pdf/index.php?lang=tr&page=9&rekPressDw=14

Cheers

For comparison. Here are the fuelly TD5 disco results from 130 vehicles: Land Rover Discovery MPG Reports | Fuelly (http://www.fuelly.com/car/land%20rover/discovery/diesel%20l5)

Discovery on lpg:
Land Rover Discovery MPG Reports | Fuelly (http://www.fuelly.com/car/land%20rover/discovery/lpg%20v8)

This one says gas, but they're american so it's actually petrol:
Land Rover Discovery MPG Reports | Fuelly (http://www.fuelly.com/car/land%20rover/discovery/gas%20v8)

You're doing very well with only 18 litres/100.

[scarry]

How much gas does your D2 use?

Exactly.

Both my TD5 and TDV6 will do 10l/100 easily,9l to 9.5/100 on a run,easy.Around town,11 to 12 absolute max.

I am guessing a D2 will do around 17/18L per 100? on LPG,maybe worse around town?
Even if it was doing 16L per 100,not much in it.

If we are talking towing,well different ball game,don't know what the figures are as i don't tow.

If you add in installation costs,as well,not much in it at all.A repair on the LPG system will also blow out the costs.

If the price eventually drops down to 76c/l,then LPG may be slightly cheaper,but not much.

Umm,just read the above posts,yer i am a slow typer....

[ozscott]

Maybe because mines manual.

Don't forget their is a large increase in purchase price on diesel powered vehicles. Also there are a lot of people who actually prefer petrol engines over diesel for a variety of reasons irrespective of higher per 100k fuel costs.

My point is that it's wrong to say LPG is a blip. It's here to stay thankfully.

[Dougal]

Maybe because mines manual.

Don't forget their is a large increase in purchase price on diesel powered vehicles.

Sure about that? P38 diesels were 20k cheaper than the V8's when new. Now they're double the price if you can find one for sale.
TDV6 disco 3's were the same price as the V8. L322's were cheaper in diesel, current rangie is cheaper in diesel.
Freelanders and Evoques are the same price new for petrol or diesel.
http://www.landrover.co.nz/i/files/specs/land%20rover%20pricing%202013_b_update1oct2013.pdf

On the Aussie site the V8 disco4 is 35k dearer than the SDV6 HSE! $105k vs 140k. :eek:

[ozscott]

Generally diesels are dearer and certainly in Toyota etc. come to think of it i test drove td5's that might have been the same price as the v8 - both new but there was no way the oil burner was getting my purchase dollars and I have never regretted that. The d3 petrol v6 was much cheaper than the tdv6.

Fact is there will always be call for petrol vehicles and LPG to suit.

Cheers

[ozscott]

In smaller vehicles the gap between petrol and diesel purchase price is typically large - so much so that the RACQ says you will never make up the difference.

Cheers

[scarry]

In smaller vehicles the gap between petrol and diesel purchase price is typically large - so much so that the RACQ says you will never make up the difference.

Cheers

Pretty much the same as LC200.

In the current range of LR's,RR,RRS,D4,the petrols are WAY more expensive than the diesels.

The other thing that could save you a few $ is you may be able to extend drainage intervals for engine oil using LPG.
You would need to have the oil tested once,say at 10k,then if OK, again at 15K.
Then if you use the same oil and driving is similar,you shouldn't need any more tests.
Just a thought as the engine oil from a vehicle operating on LPG seems to stay clean.

[ozscott]

Thanks mate. Yes you can extend with LPG . Don't get me wrong I like diesels as from the 2.7 v6. I just don't agree with the other poster that LPG petrol motors are a blip. There are way too many sources of LPG and vehicles to run it.

Cheers

[scarry]

Thanks mate. Yes you can extend with LPG . Don't get me wrong I like diesels as from the 2.7 v6. I just don't agree with the other poster that LPG petrol motors are a blip. There are way too many sources of LPG and vehicles to run it.

Cheers

Hope it is not a blip,i have a fleet of vans that run on it.....
We should have done the oil tests,but have just never got around to it.

[Dougal]

Pretty much the same as LC200.

In the current range of LR's,RR,RRS,D4,the petrols are WAY more expensive than the diesels.

The other thing that could save you a few $ is you may be able to extend drainage intervals for engine oil using LPG.
You would need to have the oil tested once,say at 10k,then if OK, again at 15K.
Then if you use the same oil and driving is similar,you shouldn't need any more tests.
Just a thought as the engine oil from a vehicle operating on LPG seems to stay clean.

I'd hope you can go past 15,000km. My 85 Isuzu diesel was 16,000km between oil and filter changes. Most euro vehicles (petrol and diesel) are knocking on 30,000km factory oil changes.
It's only a few japanese companies still stuck on 70's oil change intervals.

The ugly stepchild V6 disco wasn't sold in NZ or a lot of other countries, but was far cheaper because everything useful was missing (like air suspension). If you really want an exploder V6, then buy an exploder.

[ozscott]

We can certainly agree on that mate...the v6 coiler isn't much better than an exploder.

There is a bi difference though in LPG diesel in terms of oil changes. LPG by its nature does not lead yo build up of particulate materials etc to contaminate oil and diesel does. There is no way known that I would allow 20k oil changes (much less 30k changes!!) on a diesel I owned whether it had a particulate filter or not. It is just a cynical exercise by manufacturers to sell product and get commercial advantage.

Cheers

[Dougal]

We can certainly agree on that mate...the v6 coiler isn't much better than an exploder.

There is a bi difference though in LPG diesel in terms of oil changes. LPG by its nature does not lead yo build up of particulate materials etc to contaminate oil and diesel does. There is no way known that I would allow 20k oil changes (much less 30k changes!!) on a diesel I owned whether it had a particulate filter or not. It is just a cynical exercise by manufacturers to sell product and get commercial advantage.

Cheers

My Isuzu diesel is a truck engine and fitted with a factory bypass filter. Back in 1985 they were recommending 16,000km between oil changes in normal service and at that the engines would do ~500,000km between overhauls. This is while pushing trucks weighing around 8t gross.

If this was good 28 years ago, then what is stopping us from doing better now?
My other tdi cars are 20,000 and 15,000km oil change intervals. Engine wear is not a known problem on either of those engines. The first is known for eating injection pumps.

I've seen plenty of oil in LPG forklifts, I know how clean it looks. It'd be interesting to get it sampled and see how fast the compounds you can't easily see are building up.

[scarry]

Without turning this into another oil thread......:o

I had the D2 oil tested by Castrol numerous times at 15k and it was fine.I then had it tested again at 20k and it was still Ok,but their advice was to change it before 25k.
At the time we were using a lot of Castrol refrigeration oil,so they did the tests at no charge.
Until you actually have the oil tested,you will never know how long it can last.
The centrifugal filter helped a lot on the TD5,and the oil actually stays clean for about 3k after a change,which is amazing.
As for my D4,it only does around 15k a year,so it is changed once a year,not really worth getting it tested,as it is way less than the 24k interval as per LR specs.

[Richard93Vogue]

Feel free to change to topic:) I had my rant on the first page and am over it now, I just have to pull up at the bowser and pay like everyone else!

I am interested in oil change intervals though. I know that with a Franz filter you can increase your oil change intervals dramatically. Franz is the dunny roll filter.

[djam1]

Just noticed today that LPG is up to $1.25 here today:o

[dromader driver]

and the ULP and dieso price is???

[ozscott]

That's only the bp...other 4 are $1.16.9. Diesel in Karratha is about $1.75.

LPG is always dear off the beaten track.

It will go back to 80c a litre or less in Winter here.

Cheers

[djam1]

Must admit I only noticed the BP even though I own 1 LPG vehicle.
I don't generally notice the prices as there isn't much you can do about it

[ozscott]

And back to 79c at shell. Sweet

[scarry]

Been 79.9 for ages around here,some have just crept up to 82.9.:(

[ozscott]

I get ripped off at some spots in western suburbs. Cheers

[ozscott]

Good to sell it fall back to good levels again though. It doesn't take long to pay for the conversion with savings and then its a nice thing to run a big truck so frugally. No smell like some of the older systems too. Cheers