Weekend Trip

[crawfy]

Hi all fellow Landy owners style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif I had the pleasure of extracating a Pajero ( Current Model) from some sand at the weekend. He chose to make some very stupid decisions wilst driving on a beach track which had been carved up by other driver's over the weekend.
1) His tyre pressures were only 20psi
2) He thought trying to do a three point turn an a beach track 13ft wide would be ok ( Hence stopping all other traffic from getting around him) High tide was on it's run in!!!!!!
I've had the pleasure of training by some of our best 4x4 off road instructor's ( ie spent 6 yrs in the army) and have learnt an extreme lot of by there experience!!!! And I've learn't a hell off alot by listening and talking to fellow Land Rover Owners. The one thing which seems to annoy me is I have had to extracate a large number of Vehicle owners who decide to put to much faith in a vehicle which is badged with 4wd, and not bothered to carry any recovery gear let alone read a book on Off road driving. I wonder whether some of these Vehicle manufacturers should offer some basic offroad driving coarses as pre-requisite. Now if the driver of the above vehicle had done a coarse he might have had a better chance of not bogging his new Pajero with it's wis bang independant suspension and traction control, climate control, Automatic Transmission the list goes on, with all the mod con's of Modern vehicles I think they are starting to make sacrifices for better on road comfort ( Re the fully independant suspension) which was one the major hassles we had extracating him from the sand. I know a large number of you will differ on my point but I think Land Rover needs to stay with it's live axles as over the weekend we observed a number of vehicles with independant suspension struggled in the sand yet those with live axles ( re Land cruiser, Land Rover's) were ok.
So my point is driver need to know and understand the way their vehicle operates in certain conditions as we obsvered some pretty damaged vehicles at the end of the weekend!!!!!!
regards
Crawfy

[BlackAdder]

Got to agree with you there Crawfy. I have one of the said Pajero's (well an NM, one off the current) and I like you have had the good fortune of some time in the Army with some pretty decent driver training. I know what my vehicle limits are, and more importantly, what my limits are. P.S. I am quite surprised by the Pajero's capability and have had it into some places that I did not think it would make, even got back out too.

As you said, they buy this car with 4X4 or 4WD on the side and think they are invincible!

If I have learnt only one thing in my time in RAEME, it's "if it's a 4WD it will get deeper in the **** before it stops and when it does it's harder to get it out". Everyone MUST carry a bare necesseties kit of a couple of bow or 'D' shackles, a snatch strap and a shovel (long handled preferably) to get them through. Sounds like a good subject for a thread!

[one_iota]

Crawfy,

There is some rich territory for discussion here:

Driver training: There has been some debate about 4wd owners being licensed and tested as a seperate class but only for "on road" because they are a danger to other road users. Experience is a great teacher and off road driving is best learned through experience in wise company after some homework. Unfortunately trial and error is part of this. I hope that the "Pajero" was embaressed sufficiently to have learned from the experience.

Vehicle capability: We all love to think that our Land Rovers can go any where but read above.

Live axles vs independant: Much has been dumbed down and sophisticated to satisfy the predominant useage which is on and not off road.

[Timmo]

Definately agree about the driver training stuff.

Normally would agree about Live Axle vs Independant too, as most of the independant suspension 4x4s i have seen just do not have the wheel travel of a live axle. However, saw the New Rangie doing its stuff at the sydney bit of the G4 challenge, and was amazed at what they were doing with that car. It seems they have programmed the air suspension to act like a live axle in offroad situations (ie when one side goes up the other is pushed down etc.) So i am confident the new disco with independant suspension all around will not be sacrificing offroad performance.
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[crawfy]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif must admit I haven't read or seen to much about the new RR, I did read somewhere on the net that LR were experiencing problems with this new suspension, I might try and track down the site I read it, as the article was interesting considering the Independant verse's live axle!!!!!
Mind you the Hummer is all independant but look at the sheer engineering and vehicle size, maybe this is where LR is taking some pointers in it's new suspension? Mate of mine drove one during there Aussi trial and noted the sheer size of the vehicle for Aus tracks!!!! but commented that the sheer gearing is phenomenal un-stoppable!!! 8)
But then again so is my Disco and S11A when it comes to common sense!!! As I know my vehicles limit's and mine!!!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[fernockulated]

:roll: food for thought dept: maybe if all the 4wd vehicle manufacturers put in the vehicle a basic recovery kit as mentioned above as standard equipment (and i dont mean those stupid, not to mention downright bloody dangerous, scissor jacks designed for lifting mini's!!)along with a how to manual in case you do strike a bit of bother, it mite help a little in the education of aforementioned people who get stuck thru doing something what some of us think is absolutely stupid , but to the uninitiated, seems quite normal ways to do things.

experience is always a great teacher , some times painful/embarrasing, but nonetheless a lesson learnt, however if we don't learn from our mistakes , it is a waste of time making them in the first place :wink:

[crawfy]

Coudn't agree anymore style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif , a decent recovery kit cost's about $199.00 I put mine together for around $110.00 bucks, found two snatch straps at a Garage sale payed $10.00 for both, they are rated to 3000kg, I bought three good D Shacles from a local warehouse for twelve bucks, I bought some old truck Dog chain for $15.00, bought a good quality Snatch Strap rated to 5000kg for $39.00 on sale, I then bought some good quality leather gloves $18.00, then got some good grade canvas and got the betta half to sew up a recovery bag, and I can tell you I wouldn't pay anymore than $150.00 for a kit as you can put one together yourself cheaper, my mate paid $255.00 and didn't get a pair of gloves!!!!!! I just found a High lift jack today, a mate rang me said his brither had one and wanted some quick cash!!!!!! I paid $55.00 so all I can say is get off your backsides and hunt around, it took me three hours to put my kit together!!!
After speaking with some fellow weekender tripper's we were all amazed at the sheer stupidity of a large number of Yuppies who at the weekend decided the only decent recovery gear was their bid flashy 4wd with big shiny bull bar with nice new lights and a wis bang 14ft aerial with something attached that you talk to someone!!!!!!!!!!!!
regards
Crawfy

S11A88 & 97 300TDI DISCO

[fernockulated]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif i think i put this on another topic ,but two years ago on my way up to fraser, hit the beach at tewantin for the first time and was taking it cautious, when along came the "drongoes" in there landcruisershorties, tearing off up the beach at more than the regulation 80 k's,couple of k's up the beach these drongoes were up to their diffs in soft sand, seems someone engaged the transfer gears ,but forgot to engage the front hubs( and possibly their BRAINS!!!!)pays to do a quick check before heading into the unknown, only takes a second ,saves hours of embarresment!! :wink:

[RichardK]

I think the key to it is as Crawfy said , understanding your vehicle and it's limits and understanding how far your experience will carry you. If a person is at all interested in 4 wheel driving then they should take the time to experience either with a club or other experienced people to the level that they are happy with and be aware of the level they are at.
I have also met novices in difficult areas who have gone there through following trips set out in books and ignoring the warnings.

[LandyAndy]

Hi Ferno
You got in before me,my favourite tojo rescue was a DH that went onto the beach in 4WD with the hubs unlocked,he bogged it bigtime!!!!
Earnt me a carton to extricate him.
Cheers
Andrew

[fernockulated]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif wasnt at tewantin two years ago was it? :roll:

[crawfy]

It still amazes me to see a large number of drivers only let their tyres down when they're in the s@#t, or they wait till the going get's tough to engage 4wd and a lot of time's it is to late. Don't get me wrong I have made the same mistake but that was when I was green!! There was a number of aged challenged fella's who should have known better at the weekend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
regards
Crawfy

S11a88 and 97 300TDI DISCO

[Emo]

Originally posted by crawfy
I bought three good D Shacles from a local warehouse for twelve bucks

I hope that your shackles are "rated" style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[VladTepes]

Ahhh - constant four wheel drive. I love it !


(self-deprecating sense of humour module activated)

No hubs to worry about = one less problem for THIS particular dickhead style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif


BTW I don't have a Disco so one of you lot can tell me - are they constant 4wd or not ?

[one_iota]

Originally posted by VladTepes
Ahhh - constant four wheel drive. I love it !


(self-deprecating sense of humour module activated)

No hubs to worry about = one less problem for THIS particular dickhead style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif


BTW I don't have a Disco so one of you lot can tell me - are they constant 4wd or not ?

Yep same difference style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

Just don't let those others think we are challenged by locking hubs shhhhh style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[VladTepes]

Originally posted by one_iota

Just don't let those others think we are challenged by locking hubs shhhhh style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif


I wouldn't dream of it.

I've had a look at those 'locking' hubs and can't see anywhere to put the key.... :oops: style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif