Why don't people buy more Landrovers

[goingbush]

Interesting read on Whirlpool

When it comes to the crunch I have to admit I agree with about 1/2 of whats being said.

Why don't people buy more Land Rovers? - What to buy - Automotive (http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1926715)


.

[Roverlord off road spares]

Parts too dear,Crikey go to Toyo or Nissan dealer and open wallet and bend over.
The Freelander 1 Engine was sourced from Asia I believe, so can't put all Land rovers in the same boat for engine troubles.

[inside]

You know trying to justify to yourself why you got away from the marque is fine but there's no reason to start threads about it. Soon we'll have Isuzu owners talking about replacing their engines with a Toyota VDJ79 (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/isuzu-landy-enthusiasts-section/187531-vdj79-4-5l.html) and former Defender owners talking about how good a G-Wagen (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/european-manufactured/170914-done-something-crazy.html) is.

I guess we'll always have the Series owners counting rivets to keep everyone in check.

[marko66]

Hi All


Okay I will be the bunny here, :-} because they buy Iveco's maybe :-}


Regards Mark

[Landy Smurf]

I like this comment,
"Land Rovers are typically bought by pretentious, cashed up Corporate types that to be driven around leafy suburbs and used to pick up and drop off the kids and do the shopping and will never so much as see a flat gravel track in their lifetime.

The deserve each other really."

I think one of the biggest problems is access to service centres and parts.
If/when I sell my defender I will go back to a toyota hilux. I can get parts anywhere and they are cheap.

[newhue]

perception and marketing. I like watching the smirk disappear from someone who asked me what I think of the Land Rover. If I just talk about the good bits they are quite surprised and the smirk slides away. They are usually quite surprised. If I tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth they go away thinking "i knew it".

LR market themselves as high end, and adventurous. Everyone knows a Landy will do it better which is why they ask. But they have also heard their unreliable. Most Landy owners I have met are happy to owns the cars faults which doesn't make the rumour any less. Other marks it's just simply bad luck. I think the ever reliable and un-breabalble Jap perception is becoming an awkward reality for a lot of Jap 4x4 owners. Many of the boys at work have just as much warranty with theirs than my LR. But go to the park and they realise they have bought a piece of crap. However price then becomes an issue to change over.

[Keithy P38]

Not sure I'd even consider a Hilux... Our Dmax is built better, has a punchier engine and drives better than the hilux I drive at work. Not to mention the Dmax is cheaper to run and service.

I think the article is on the money - none of us ever go off road! All landys are for the school run and that's it! I guess it was a sealed motorway all the way to the cape when I went there in August, and there is a school in Bamaga...

[goingbush]

perception and marketing. <sniip>.

thats on the money, its about the brand more than the vehicle.


Imagine a vehicle identical in every respect to the Defender or D4 with a Toyota badge . Would the public lap them up ??

What if the Parent Company decided from 2014 all Landrover branding was to be replaced with Tata badge /logo ??? how much diferance would that make ??


You know trying to justify to yourself why you got away from the marque is fine but there's no reason to start threads about it. <snip>

So what if LR had developed the Llama and it evolved into exactly the truck I'm driving now, what if it had a LR badge , would I be such a ******,
its more about the brand than the vehicle for some people

BTW, I still own a Defender you know.

[weeds]

when time comes to replace my defer i will certainly be looking at what the market has to offer and pick a vehicle that suits my needs at the time of purchase

[DiscoMick]

LR sell every vehicle they send here but we're a small market and a long way away so they can sell them quicker closer to where they are made.

Sent from my GT-I8730T using AULRO mobile app

[VladTepes]

Some people are one eyed LR haters, often for no good reason, and logic will not help you win an argument with them.

That's life.



when time comes to replace my defer i will certainly be looking at what the market has to offer and pick a vehicle that suits my needs at the time of purchase

Poof. :p

[rangietragic]

Two of the greatest myths of the motoring world.Landrovers always break down,toyotas never do.Im not saying i've never had trouble with any of mine since i bought my first old rangie in the early nineties,but i've worked with plenty of people with toyotas that were nothing but trouble.I reckon a few people who claim to have owned a landrover on forums and it was a pos are full of it.I think nissotas are great vehicles as a rule,but i prefer to drive landrovers.Nissotas are like white goods to me,do the job well,but i cant get passionate about the microwave:p

[Landy Smurf]

Nissotas are like white goods to me,do the job well,but i cant get passionate about the microwave:p

:thumbsup:

[clive22]

Hi

I will be in the market for a near new for touring dual cab ute next year, a 2.2Litre 130 dual cab is in my sights atm and the reputation about Landy does concern me.

I plan to use it for extended remote touring and worries about clutches, egr valves, gearboxes, front prop-shafts, rover/P38 diffs, weak steering gear means.I will probably end up putting,to some extent, aftermarket gear on to improve reliability.

I really don't think this is good enough, especially this late in a very very long production run.

The small dual cabs really lack the versatility off road of the 130. The Toyota 70 series is DC tempting but frankly overpriced I don't plan on towing so the V8 is of little real use.

That said some of the stuff said about landies is complete bs, parts are very reasonable, they are easy to work on and there so much good gear out there for 'em.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I read the first page or so of that site, there are some passionate LR haters there. :eek: What I was wondering is why they weren't mentioning that Land Rovers break axles as it seems that is the ilk of their passion.

No one even mentions that Land Cruisers were splitting transfer cases, 3 litre Nissans has significant failures or that 1 litre of oil per 1000Km was normal on a LC200 series.

[Ean Austral]

Interesting read on Whirlpool

When it comes to the crunch I have to admit I agree with about 1/2 of whats being said.

Why don't people buy more Land Rovers? - What to buy - Automotive (http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1926715)


.

Spoken by 90% who have never owned a landy before, so need to continue the bad reputation ,
and the other 9% of people who have had a landy but had issues, and the last 1% of people that knew what they were talking about.

Remember meeting people on the Canning stock Route who sold their Disco's because they were told they would never make it.

Had several comment on how much we would regret the trip before we went because we weren't in a Cruiser,spoken so confidently by all non land rover owners.

The whole reason why I dont read forum sites like the 1 mentioned.

Cheers Ean

[BMKal]

Yes I got bored after reading about two thirds of the way down the first page. Written mostly by ill-informed idiots - but who cares. Let them drive whatever they like. I know why I'm on my fourth Landrover and third consecutive Disco.

Fortunately, very few people actually take any notice of forums like Whirlpool. It's pretty obvious that the place is largely frequented by a bunch of losers with not much more to do than to whinge or to bag out products that they are never likely to be able to afford in any case. The vast majority of them have no idea at all about the topics that they are posting on - it's not even worth the effort of joining to correct them or to argue with them.

There's one or two on there who do know what they are talking about - but they are sadly in the minority. Certainly seems to be a few horror stories about some of the dealerships though, if some of what is posted on there is to be believed. My experience with Landrover dealerships to date though, has been exactly the opposite.

When people ask me for opinions etc on Landrovers (and plenty do) - I refer them to this site and tell them that they are far more likely to be told the true story - both good AND bad points - about any model that they are interested in. ;)

[rangietragic]

Heard plenty of horror stories about dealers,only experience i've ever had was years ago on the gold coast,went into dealership and enquired about trading my p38 on a d3.Persuaded salesman to test drive d3 but he seemed totally dissinterested.Would not reccomend that dealership.

[Kev the Fridgy]

Interesting read that forum, reminds me of a mate of mine who is a mechanic with his own business, owns 2 Land Cruisers, self confessed Toyota fan (there is no other 4WD). When I mentioned I was looking around for D1 a few years ago his first comment was "Pretty reliable vehicle if you keep the maintenance up", his second comment, "get a defender there bullet proof".


We are always having a go at each other regarding branding, reliability and reputation, he also comments he has just as many Land Cruisers in the shop for repairs, currently we are planning a Cape York trip for later next year so will be running my D1 and his 75 series ute, should be a good trip.


The point I was vaguely getting to is that I have found most people who bag LR are those that don't research there info, rather they repeat hear say and listen to very well thought out marketing from LR competitors.


Those that actually do know a thing or two regarding mechanicals generally like the LR brand but as mentioned they fall out of favour with electrical issues and poor service back up............ my 2 cents worth

[newhue]

Hi

I will be in the market for a near new for touring dual cab ute next year, a 2.2Litre 130 dual cab is in my sights atm and the reputation about Landy does concern me.

I plan to use it for extended remote touring and worries about clutches, egr valves, gearboxes, front prop-shafts, rover/P38 diffs, weak steering gear means.I will probably end up putting,to some extent, aftermarket gear on to improve reliability.

I really don't think this is good enough, especially this late in a very very long production run.

The small dual cabs really lack the versatility off road of the 130. The Toyota 70 series is DC tempting but frankly overpriced I don't plan on towing so the V8 is of little real use.

That said some of the stuff said about landies is complete bs, parts are very reasonable, they are easy to work on and there so much good gear out there for 'em.

Clive, I can tell you now your new Defender, if you go that path, will give you a degree of grief. But it will also be probably the best vehicle you own. And you will not understand this until you own one.

Initially I lost confidence with mine over a rouge electrical issue that continued. Thought I could never trust it to go remote, and that I have bought the wrong vehicle. However since then I have been quite remote on my own with just family. Even further remote with a group. And use it as a daily work car, weekend camper, and put 100K on it in 3 years. Yes it has had it's issues, but not once have I had to justify a thing to the dealer. They just fixed it.

Every vehicle has weakness's, LC's it's front diffs, oil usage, cracking in firewalls, rough ride and sagging suspension. But they are a great reliable truck I hear. Oh that fuel economy is also great. Almost every patrol ute owner I have met has caved in the rear chassis from weight, having to insert a cross member to fix what the manufacturer hasn't. The 3lt is a real gamble, and I'm sure there are a number of inherent issues with the mark as well. But they may not tell you unless your a close mate.

[clive22]

I think your right newhue and I'm looking forward to it. Your dead right every vehicle has its faults, by the way I already have a 110 county so I am familiar with and I love em. I 'll be keeping the 110

It's disappointing that things are still need fixing that I've fixed on the 110 diffs, etc. lr ain't the only guilty manufacturer here


Really though the 130 looks the best vehicle out there, especially for the money, and I.ll buying new as possible, no engine mods, sensible weights, mods only to fix well known probs all to increase relibility


Clive

[Fred Nerk]

My brother and I are the only two D4 owners in our 4WD club. There is a D3 and a D2. There are more than 70 other 4WD of all types. We have a great time with lots of friendly teasing and leg pulling. The LR can do anything the others do and we keep up with all but the most heavily modded cars. We are now recognised as being willing to have a go at everything. Our greatest weakness is tyres, but the vehicles are gaining respect from the diehards.

I don't really care what other people drive. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I'm happy to give them mine :D

And I'm looking forward to getting my GOE rims and better tyres and rock sliders. (All ordered and paid for)

[justinc]

I'm not sure why the recycle/ reuse option isn't more widely talked about, this may well be a popular activity in years to come. Interestingly, it really only applies to the LR product, even more specifically Defenders and Counties etc.

For example;

A rust free or easily repairable 110 County can be had for around $2500 in V8 guise, a Diesel conversion utilising many options such as Isuzu , Toyota, Mazda, Ford even with matching transmission can be performed, modernised A/C can be fitted, soundproofing and insulation can be done, and ergonomics can be tackled at the same time with seating and park brake positioning etc etc.

Yes these options can be $$$ if you are paying another party to do it all, but if done yourself it is relatively easy just time consuming.

Most importantly you get an economical, non electronic (Mostly) reliable and joyous to drive and own vehicle that costs thousands less than a 'new' one with all its modern glitches, depreciation and failings.

ANY 90, 110 or 130 has immense character, whatever the drivetrain and modifications performed so don't discount the 're-use' / 'recycle' idea:)

JC

[newhue]

That's a very good point JC. A Defender or a LC can head to 80 to 100K pretty quickly with accessories. Don't wish to brag, or rub anything in but I sure spin out about what I have spent. Especially when you drive it up some rocky off camber slop with ledges, or through some bonnet lapping steam, I do ask myself what am I doing sometimes.
Effectively I see my car as not much different to a County. One is noisy and not threatened with water, one is quiet and is threatened with water. But there is a 60K difference. I do have to have air con though...soft I guess.

[clive22]

Hi

I've been fixing bits and pieces on my County for years now. I' d like fixing and keeping the old girl on the road, but after a while fixing

door seals, steering boxes, heaters, wipers, door locks, window winders, lights, wiring,seat belts, dash falling apart and so forth


Then on top of that the normal maintenance its does wear a bit thin. I look at
Toyos' in particular and have to say they really do the details better back then and still do today.

I have my county since new and really even back in '86 when we bought it that stuff was below par, even though a coil sprung county was state of art back then the LC, trolls toyos/Nisan etc. still outsold it by a big margin - this and reliability was what killed their market share in my opinion.

Then as now the land rover vehicles were in front tech wise. But to the average guy/girl whose not a full on 4wd enthusiast, having things like doors locks,. windscreen wipers, door seals that just work matters far more than the latest tech.

This lack of attention to detail and some on going oversights on basics like diffs has what turned LR into a niche product.

Clive

[hocko]

The defence force spent tonnes of cash keeping the 110's on the road.

[bob10]

Well, a lot of good posts here. I'll say this, I would not like to own a vehicle I could not do most of the work myself. I don't like paying someone $100 an hour, or more, to do something I should be able to do. I bought a D2, had absolutely no knowledge of the vehicle, educated myself with the help of this forum, & some good people [ thanks Dave] & now have got to the stage, do I buy another vehicle, considering mine is getting on in life , or do I take a leap of faith, spend whatever spare cash I have on to keep it going, and spend even more time educating myself about the marque. I have the advantage, I admit, I can take it off the road, until either I'm educated, or financial enough to get the job done. To that end, I'm happy with my D2, even happier when I see the looks of disbelief on the faces of the drivers of the more fashionable, more expensive vehicles, when I'm chugging along everywhere they can go. [ disclaimer- I am not an extreme " give it the berries " driver] I'm happy to drive what I drive, Bob

[UncleHo]

What has turned Land Rover into a niche vehicle has and is the attude of LRA and Dealer staff, "if we ignore him, he will go away" :(

What the Oriental makers did/do is for every vehicle imported there is a full compliment of service spares,as "SERVICE" is how one gets, and keeps customers.

[Ranga]

I do have to have air con though...soft I guess.

When it works :p

[weeds]

When it works :p

What the A/C fails on a puma?? Maybe it doesn't like the new inter cooler

[loneranger]

What the Oriental makers did/do is for every vehicle imported there is a full compliment of service spares,as "SERVICE" is how one gets, and keeps customers.

That depends on which side of the country you live. I recently spent 5 days in Geraldton WA waiting for an 'overnight' part from Melbourne because a 12.30 (WA time) order missed the cut-off for processing and I had to wait until Monday afternoon for the order to be processed, delivered Wednesday.

Ironically enough I bought my Jap ute cos of the so called reliability. This is a new vehicle under warranty with less than 25,000km on the clock. They refused to cover our accommodation as I drove the vehicle in as per the manual rather than getting it towed.

[rover-56]

even happier when I see the looks of disbelief on the faces of the drivers of the more fashionable, more expensive vehicles, when I'm chugging along everywhere they can go. Bob

Yes I remember well the looks and comments of amazement when on some LROCV trips with my S1 Series which went everywhere all the Disco 1's went.

People forget...:)

Terry

[VladTepes]

Yeah one of the blokes who is /w as in teh LROCB had a lovely series 1 which did exactly that. And anotehr who has a blue Series 2 equally capable.

[justinc]

Well, a lot of good posts here. I'll say this, I would not like to own a vehicle I could not do most of the work myself. I don't like paying someone $100 an hour, or more, to do something I should be able to do. I bought a D2, had absolutely no knowledge of the vehicle, educated myself with the help of this forum, & some good people [ thanks Dave] & now have got to the stage, do I buy another vehicle, considering mine is getting on in life , or do I take a leap of faith, spend whatever spare cash I have on to keep it going, and spend even more time educating myself about the marque. I have the advantage, I admit, I can take it off the road, until either I'm educated, or financial enough to get the job done. To that end, I'm happy with my D2, even happier when I see the looks of disbelief on the faces of the drivers of the more fashionable, more expensive vehicles, when I'm chugging along everywhere they can go. [ disclaimer- I am not an extreme " give it the berries " driver] I'm happy to drive what I drive, Bob


Bob, exactly my point; you can go everwhere that everyone else goes, and not have speed dial tilt tray numbers stored in your phone, or have to have $$$$ sitting in an 'emergency vehicle repair fund'.


Old County 110 Diesels are VERY capable off road, and on road if turbocharged.

Old school for touring and remote trips is a blessing IME.


JC

[bob10]

Bob, exactly my point; you can go everwhere that everyone else goes, and not have speed dial tilt tray numbers stored in your phone, or have to have $$$$ sitting in an 'emergency vehicle repair fund'.


Old County 110 Diesels are VERY capable off road, and on road if turbocharged.

Old school for touring and remote trips is a blessing IME.


JC


If ever I were to replace my D2, it would be with a vehicle of that type. Still seriously considering that , just have to man up, Bob

[newhue]

When it works :p

Na Ranga happy to report just a Defender niggle. Have no idea why it didn't work the day after the cooler installation, because on the second day it went strong and has been doing so ever since. go figure.

[Sirocco]

not read that thread, but I can only imagine.

For older vehicles its all about maintenance. I made it across 23 countries this year in 8 months, 42,000km with only 2 days total downtime. 2 UJ's, cracked exhaust, smashed side window and a small electrical fault blowing fuses on the gauges.

A friend in an 80 series is currently in another Toyo workshop in Iran trying to source a new gearbox. He already did it in the Ukraine and has been in every Toyo dealer from the UK out to China and back!

Same with a 100 series we used in west Africa. It was a pain in the arse. split fuel tanks, no fuel gauges and a fuel starvation problem which was never resolved. Visited a Toyo dealer in each country.

Im sure If I owned a cruiser I wouldn't have an issues because I would look after it.

I can't ever see me owning a new vehicle, I just cant.

G

[Ranga]

Na Ranga happy to report just a Defender niggle. Have no idea why it didn't work the day after the cooler installation, because on the second day it went strong and has been doing so ever since. go figure.

Still reckon we all need a "It's a Land Rover thing, even I don't understand" sticker :)

[jimr1]

I can remember reading a four wheel drive mag many years ago . The editor wrote that he gets many letters asking what is a good four wheeler to buy ? He said how can I answer this , what do you want it for ? ie . short wheel base , long , dual cab , ute , 3 door ,5 door , petrol ,diesel . He said you have to think about what you want and what you can afford . He also said once you get your 4x4 and get stuck down a track , don't be surprised if a 30 year old Land Rover comes along , and pulls you out . how true is that .

[Davo]

I'm not sure why the recycle/ reuse option isn't more widely talked about, this may well be a popular activity in years to come. Interestingly, it really only applies to the LR product, even more specifically Defenders and Counties etc.

For example;

A rust free or easily repairable 110 County can be had for around $2500 in V8 guise, a Diesel conversion utilising many options such as Isuzu , Toyota, Mazda, Ford even with matching transmission can be performed, modernised A/C can be fitted, soundproofing and insulation can be done, and ergonomics can be tackled at the same time with seating and park brake positioning etc etc.

Yes these options can be $$$ if you are paying another party to do it all, but if done yourself it is relatively easy just time consuming.

Most importantly you get an economical, non electronic (Mostly) reliable and joyous to drive and own vehicle that costs thousands less than a 'new' one with all its modern glitches, depreciation and failings.

ANY 90, 110 or 130 has immense character, whatever the drivetrain and modifications performed so don't discount the 're-use' / 'recycle' idea:)

JC

Thanks for describing the last 24 years of my life! :D That's actually why I bought a Landy, because I could fix and, eventually, rebuild it. They had a factory years ago in Africa rebuilding Landies. And it'll probably happen here a bit, once new ones aren't available anymore.

[newhue]

I can remember reading a four wheel drive mag many years ago . The editor wrote that he gets many letters asking what is a good four wheeler to buy ? He said how can I answer this , what do you want it for ? ie . short wheel base , long , dual cab , ute , 3 door ,5 door , petrol ,diesel . He said you have to think about what you want and what you can afford . He also said once you get your 4x4 and get stuck down a track , don't be surprised if a 30 year old Land Rover comes along , and pulls you out . how true is that .

as a young buck we had cruisers and patrols, and the "goat track" over the headland at Moreton Is was aways a will I won't I make it run. We usually didn't make it no matter how hard we flogged our trucks, and with low tyres. Well eventually we did and we'd sit up top all chuffed with ourselves enjoying the view.

sure enough, a beat up grey 109 series 3 with some classic crappy gal steel homemade bar work, stock tyres, and full of fishermen would put put put up and over. They looked at us with a "what's the issue" look upon their face.
It was from then my life changed.
I think for many of us are sold the rest, but eventually BUY the best.

[2stroke]

I'm not sure why the recycle/ reuse option isn't more widely talked about, this may well be a popular activity in years to come. Interestingly, it really only applies to the LR product, even more specifically Defenders and Counties etc.

For example;

A rust free or easily repairable 110 County can be had for around $2500 in V8 guise, a Diesel conversion utilising many options such as Isuzu , Toyota, Mazda, Ford even with matching transmission can be performed, modernised A/C can be fitted, soundproofing and insulation can be done, and ergonomics can be tackled at the same time with seating and park brake positioning etc etc.

Yes these options can be $$$ if you are paying another party to do it all, but if done yourself it is relatively easy just time consuming.

Most importantly you get an economical, non electronic (Mostly) reliable and joyous to drive and own vehicle that costs thousands less than a 'new' one with all its modern glitches, depreciation and failings.

ANY 90, 110 or 130 has immense character, whatever the drivetrain and modifications performed so don't discount the 're-use' / 'recycle' idea:)

JC
This is precisely why it doesn't matter to me whether or not they continue to produce the Defender or what they try to pass off as its replacement. IF ever I feel I need to replace my '95 300 Tdi 130 DC there'll be dozens of ex army 110s and parts around and I'll just assemble whatever it is that suits the needs of the time and still use parts from mine, like the rear maxidrive. There is no new 4x4 that suits my requirements and the best vehicles I've ever owned were "built, not bought".

[ugu80]

sure enough, a beat up grey 109 series 3 with some classic crappy gal steel homemade bar work, stock tyres, and full of fishermen would put put put up and over. They looked at us with a "what's the issue" look upon their face.


I remember an early Top Gear episode where Jeremy was taking his Landcruiser sahara 100, the big BMW all wheel drive and I think a Mercedes M class through some sloppy stuff. None made it; then there was also a local farmer with a 50's vintage standard series 1 that just chugged through the lot and out the other side.

[Landy Smurf]

oooh a link for that would be cool

[Reads90]

The Freelander 1 Engine was sourced from Asia I believe, so can't put all Land rovers in the same boat for engine troubles.

It came from Honda

[PhilipA]

It came from Honda

BS
It a Leyland K series, probably the most troublesome engine in modern history.

History of the K-series (http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/group2/engines/development_history_of_the_k.htm)

The early RV6 ( also Freelander) was sold to Kia for the Carnival and AFAIK EVERY ONE had to be replaced due to head gasket problems.
Regards Philip A

[PhilipA]

BTW this is probably one of the main reasons people do not buy more Landrovers.

Land Rover Ratings, Prices, Photos | J.D. Power (http://autos.jdpower.com/research/Land+Rover/index.htm'sortBy=vehicleDependabilityReliabilitySt udyRating)

And here is Toyota. Notice the greater use of yellow dots.
http://autos.jdpower.com/research/Toyota/index.htm'supBodyStyle=SUV
So now I expect the usual deluge of postings saying tha JD Power only measures all faults not major faults Blah, blah blah.

But really the results are pretty clear and I am sure that they don't include Australian considerations like fuel tank size and wheel diameter .

Even LRO says that LR prematurely launched the D3 and let the customer do the product development. ( which I thought to be a big admmission from a marque magazine with rabid enthusiasts on staff)

I wonder what gotchas are hidden in the new even more complex models

[101RRS]

There was really nothing wrong with the basic 1800 K series - in itself, a strong little engine but the designers did not put a lot of thought into the thermostat arrangement (particularly in the Freelander - same engine in the MG and Lotus) and that was the cause of its problems.

The thermostat was slow to read the temp of the engine and it had to get real hot before the thermostat opened - often what it did then was open rightup sending cold water from the radiator into an overheated block and heat causing thermal shock to the engine. A combination of the heating in the first place could cause head gasket issues and further coolant loss. The overall result was blown heat gaskets, head issues, slipped liners and cooked engines.

In warmer climates - often the thermostats were removed and these engines did not have the stereotypical K series issues at all. Likewise, later there were thermostat mods but I am not sure how successful they were in the long term.

Garry

[ugu80]

oooh a link for that would be cool

It was Season 1 (2002) Episode 10 Landcruiser -v- BMW X5 -v- Jeep Grand Cherokee -v- Range Rover.

Took a while, but just for you Landy Smurf
Top Gear Season 1 ep 10 by Kamii-Sama - Car Videos on StreetFire

[Landy Smurf]

Awesome. Loved how the series just putts past the bmw

[JamesH]

"Land Rovers are typically bought by pretentious, cashed up Corporate types that to be driven around leafy suburbs and used to pick up and drop off the kids and do the shopping and will never so much as see a flat gravel track in their lifetime.

The deserve each other really."

I like this quote too but because it is honest enough to acknowledge the elephant in room where discussion about Landrover versus Nissota is concerned.

In the UK, where they sell a lot of Landrovers the car does gave a heritage part to its brand but it is essentially classless and you're not making a personal statement. That's not true here in Oz. Here, when you drive a LR , as well as choosing a type of car you are also choosing not to drive Toyota or Nissan, cars which are more prominent.

Say what you like about why you made your choice, Landie owners you go into the room of mirrors and you will see someone who refuses to go with the herd, and that has been a part of your choice.

The attitude is what the herd picks up on when they start ranting about Landrover.

I will never ever consider Toyota or Nissan. Don't care how cheap the running costs are supposed to be. Never ever. I'd rather catch the bus.

Guilty as charged.

[samuelclarke]

Why don't people buy more Land Rovers? I'll share my experience...

I've owned a 200Tdi Defender 110 for 5 years - bought it with 300,000km on the clock and have done another 130,000km since. Overall it's been a great vehicle, despite it being high maintenance by design, with costs around $10,000 over 5 years. I've never been stranded with a breakdown I couldn't fix with basic tools.

At 20 years old my Defender was starting to show its age (beach driving and heavier off road aren't kind to any 4WD) with rust starting to become an issue in the chassis and corrosion in the doors, plus an engine rebuild. The time had come to take the Defender off the road and in 2014 I'm planning on starting a full ground up rebuild with galvanised parts. This Defender will live again.

Let's make this clear - I love Defenders!

We went looking for replacement options...Defender, Amarok, Hilux, 79 Series. Both my wife and I really wanted a new Defender, but we couldn't justify spending $50k+ on a vehicle that still had many of the issues of our 20 year old Defender (hence why we are going down the rebuild route). Looked at the Amarok and mostly liked it...but it overall didn't sell us. 79 Series would've been our choice, but didn't want to spend that much at the moment on a vehicle.

So the Hilux was the only one left on the list (I know what some of you are thinking)...we signed contracts and took delivery in June this year. Six months and 23,000kms on I can honestly say I'm 100% happy with it. Does if have the character of a Defender? Nope! But it does have its own character - problem free reliability. For all the Hilux haters out there...I've had zero issues from delivery to now. Fully loaded with roof top tent and touring gear it laps up everything. I've had such a positive experience with my first Toyota it's left me happy and very impressed...this is coming from someone whose blood runs green.

I wanted to buy a new Defender and would've if they were a viable option for me. As much as I love the Defender, when it came to putting down the money on a new one I couldn't justify it. I honestly hope Land Rover can deliver on the Defender replacement as I'd be first on the list to buy if they do! For now we're Toyota and Land Rover owners...a 2013 Toyota Hilux SR D4D and 1992 Land Rover Defender 200Tdi 110 (once it's back on the road).

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q77/s720x720/1526206_10151827644411088_202108516_n.jpg

[Debacle]

as a young buck we had cruisers and patrols, and the "goat track" over the headland at Moreton Is was aways a will I won't I make it run. We usually didn't make it no matter how hard we flogged our trucks, and with low tyres. Well eventually we did and we'd sit up top all chuffed with ourselves enjoying the view.

sure enough, a beat up grey 109 series 3 with some classic crappy gal steel homemade bar work, stock tyres, and full of fishermen would put put put up and over. They looked at us with a "what's the issue" look upon their face.
It was from then my life changed.
I think for many of us are sold the rest, but eventually BUY the best.

I remember the goat track, wish it was still there. My old S2 with 186 would just climb up in 3rd low nice and slow, never needed a second attempt. Only downside was waiting down the bottom for others to make multiple attempts and rip up the track, but it was better than bouncing along the inland track from Bulwer.

[rangietragic]

as a young buck we had cruisers and patrols, and the "goat track" over the headland at Moreton Is was aways a will I won't I make it run. We usually didn't make it no matter how hard we flogged our trucks, and with low tyres. Well eventually we did and we'd sit up top all chuffed with ourselves enjoying the view.

sure enough, a beat up grey 109 series 3 with some classic crappy gal steel homemade bar work, stock tyres, and full of fishermen would put put put up and over. They looked at us with a "what's the issue" look upon their face.
It was from then my life changed.
I think for many of us are sold the rest, but eventually BUY the best.
Was a similar track on fraser in mid seventies called middle rocks.Once we were sittings in our vw buggies watching the 4wds have run up after run up and not make it.Along came an old soft top shorty landy,bar tread tyres,3 old blokes all wearing overalls and beanies,rods hanging out the back,just chugged up and over no worries;)
ps,we made it over first go too:D

[Bushie]

Perceptions

At lunch time we reached the junction of the rig road again. The trip across the WAA line had been most enjoyable, we had seen only one group travelling in the opposite direction who had warned us that a couple of the dunes had very steep east faces and would give the landies some problems,

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/200.jpg

we’re still waiting to get to them, obviously either their perception of steep dunes, vehicle performance, or driver capability varied from ours. The WAA line was fairly smooth with little in the way of corrugations, reflecting the lack of traffic.


Martyn

From my Madigan report in 2008