The value of safety devices in 4WD's

[Treads]

Cal and Bud Car rollover 14 December 2013 - YouTube

Properly fitted child restraint and the absence of a cargo barrier in a roll

[beefy]

great to see they are ok

[SBD4]

Yes, glad they are OK, brave kid, not a squawk out of him.

Speed is conspicuously absent from the video, seemed like he was going a bit fast - personally I would have slowed down for that bend. Although, video does seem to make it look faster than what it really is.

He also mentioned skippy, camber and the stones. I didn't see a roo and the other two things didn't seem to be an issue. Looked like he was more towards the middle of the road when he started to slide out.

[crash]

What does he mean at the end "no kangaroo was injured in this collision- the bastard"
Was he "swerving" to miss a roo which caused the accident?

I am always worried whether or not my kids are buckled up correctly, and that video proves that child restraints work.

I new of a neuro surgeon who use to make his primary aged kids wear bicycle helmets while in the car incase of an accident.

[Davo]

I like the way gravel, camber, and a roo gets the blame while his driving doesn't. If you aren't familiar with a dirt road, then you slow down. Very simple. (And don't swerve to avoid animals.)

[HarryO]

Great that no one was hurt - and what a calm father and very brave young man!

Very interesting seeing the two views simultaniously..

100% confirms my other posts comments about having a cargo barrier if you going to have loose "thing" in the car. If you pause the video you can see the kid it covered with bits flying out the back - lucky none of them were heavy.

[BathurstTom]

It looks like he has gone over a small crest a little out of line and maybe a little quick and lost traction. A little quick and a little amount of dirt driving experience not a good mix.

Tom.

[Disco Muppet]

Very easy to nit-pick based on a video, but lets face it: none of us were there at the time, so we don't know how fast he was going, his experience on gravel roads, etc.
I was under the impression that it was a large amount of very loose gravel, shown in the stills immediately after the video.
However, it did seem he was going at a fair pace.
I spent a fair chunk of my Ls on gravel roads, spend plenty of time on them now as well and it's fairly easy for things to go wrong very quickly.
All in all, a valuable video as it shows the importance of child restraints and cargo barriers, I thought he handled it very well, could have been considerably worse.

[Slunnie]

I like the way gravel, camber, and a roo gets the blame while his driving doesn't.

I thought the same, absolutely no self responsibility. Typical Toyota driver, he purely misjudged a corner that seemingly many people before him have managed to drive through.

And what is with that vanity camera.

[Davo]

Yeah, I hadn't thought about why there was a camera inside, pointing at them. I can't figure that one out.

I used to tell my students that about 70kmh was a good top speed for a straight gravel road, subject to certain conditions, etc., etc., and to never, ever brake on a curve. Then we'd do a few demos of it going wrong, which was always fun.

[Mick_Marsh]

There was a roo. Up on the left in the shade. I suspect that was why he was moving over to the right and into the gravel. He was possibly slowing down at the time because of the roo.
Applying brakes in gravel on an off camber bend, I think he was lucky.

[Mick_Marsh]

Yeah, I hadn't thought about why there was a camera inside, pointing at them. I can't figure that one out.
It was probably one of those twin camera Uniden units.
Uniden TWIN HD IN CAR VEHICLE RECORDER - 2 x 180 Swivel Cameras - Portable - IMD Sales (http://www.imds.com.au/uniden-twin-hd-in-car-vehicle-recorder-2-x-180-swivel-cameras-portable/?gclid=CN284fiKvrsCFQQwpAodMxkAfA)
I'm told they're very good.

[101RRS]

I was not going to comment until I saw his comment basically blaming the road - sorry mate you drive to the conditions - you did seem to be going a bit too fast for the conditions.

I had a similar accident where I tipped my series 1 on its side on the Nerriga Road 35 years ago where I wandered wide a bit on got caught in deep mud - I did not blame the road I blamed my poor driving - a Kombi pulled me up right and I drove back to Nowra with just a broken drivers mirror.

Sorry - driver error not the road.

[DeeJay]

Probably 40 PSI in the tyres for it to swing out like that..

[Davo]

It was probably one of those twin camera Uniden units.
Uniden TWIN HD IN CAR VEHICLE RECORDER - 2 x 180 Swivel Cameras - Portable - IMD Sales (http://www.imds.com.au/uniden-twin-hd-in-car-vehicle-recorder-2-x-180-swivel-cameras-portable/?gclid=CN284fiKvrsCFQQwpAodMxkAfA)
I'm told they're very good.

But why would you film yourself? (Or maybe your female passenger in a short skirt? :) ) Or is there something I'm missing . . .

[roverrescue]

Pretty brave soul posting that video as we all now get to judge his driving!!!!

In my perhaps not so humble opinion
I reckon he would have given himself a better chance had he been in high 4 with the centre locked...
As he crested and the front got a little light, he wound in a little steering but the old bus just kept doing what RWD cruisers like to do. If you wanna stay in RWD then you need to be feeding in alot more opposite a whole lot early on that cresting camber???

Bugger having a cargo barrier - you just need a ute ;)

S

[Bearman]

Yeah, I reckon. Looking at his arms from around the time he started to lose the rear I would say too fast for conditions (loose surface, curve, crest) then overcorrected and its all over. Classical Toyota rollover. Luckily no serious injuries.

[ugu80]

Pretty brave soul posting that video as we all now get to judge his driving!!!!
Not really, his driving was flawless; just ask him.

[roverrescue]

"Classical Toyota rollover."

Brian!
Toyotas dont rollover, they just have a little rest... it is ever so tiring being the best ;)

In all fairness though it wasnt his driving it was that stinkin' drain the council has cut on the right side of the road. If that was a nice smooth run off he would have let the tail wag on the nose a few times and then finally it would have re-corrected...

S

[justinc]

Come on you lot, some of your comments are a bit harsh. People make mistakes, it is just thankful no one was injured.

How many of you have found yourself out of shape on the dirt and saved it, and just been lucky?

Many years back we were hit (Side on) hard by a Pajero in our little Diesel Gemini, our kids both woke up showered in glass with a huge BANG, they were quite young at the time NEITHER has forgotten it 13 years later. Hope the youngun in that vid is OK.

JC

[Tote]

Looks like what we used to call "tennis court gravel" when I was a young bloke - great fun to drive on but needs to be treated with lots of respect...........

Regards,
Tote

[wrinklearthur]

As the LC rolled to the right and stayed on that side, I think there was something else happening with the vehicle.

You can see he was fairly busy with the steering to accidently flick the wipers on before the LC hit the side of the bank and that says to me that he probably already had a flat on that front right hand wheel and that is not want is needed in that type of corner after coming down a crest.
.

[Mick_Marsh]

As the LC rolled to the right and stayed on that side, I think there was something else happening with the vehicle.

You can see he was fairly busy with the steering to accidently flick the wipers on before the LC hit the side of the bank and that says to me that he probably already had a flat on that front right hand wheel and that is not want is needed in that type of corner after coming down a crest.
.
You might be on to something there Arthur. That front right tyre looks very shredded.

[Mick_Marsh]

But why would you film yourself? (Or maybe your female passenger in a short skirt? :) ) Or is there something I'm missing . . .
Well, the twin cameras are on swivels. You could have both pointing out taking the same picture. Why would you do that? You could have both pointing in taking the same picture. Why would you do that? You could have both pointing to the side taking the pictures of the A pillars. Why would you do that? Personal choice. He chose to have one pointing in and one pointing out. Seems logical to me.

[jon3950]

8L -> 7R/C stay R . 7L thru dip

Looks like he was just carrying a bit too much speed, ran wide over the crest and backed off. Simple mistake, but once you do that you're usually just a passenger. Better to keep the power on to keep the vehicle balanced, but I guess the old, when in doubt power out probably doesn't work too well in a Cruiser.

Poor guy stuffed up, don't be so hard on him. It was a pretty gentle roll and no-one was hurt. It does illustrate the value of a cargo barrier though.

Cheers,
Jon

[cjc_td5]

8L -> 7R/C stay R . 7L thru dip

Cheers,
Jon

Love it! :D
Got to love a rally man. :D

Chris

Sent from my HTC One XL using AULRO mobile app

[justinc]

8L -> 7R/C stay R . 7L thru dip

Looks like he was just carrying a bit too much speed, ran wide over the crest and backed off. Simple mistake, but once you do that you're usually just a passenger. Better to keep the power on to keep the vehicle balanced, but I guess the old, when in doubt power out probably doesn't work too well in a Cruiser.

Poor guy stuffed up, don't be so hard on him. It was a pretty gentle roll and no-one was hurt. It does illustrate the value of a cargo barrier though.

Cheers,
Jon

here endeth the lesson. A lack of available power to correct a ball bearing gravel drift can prove disastrous:(. great tulip map visuals BTW:)

jc

[V8Ian]

Well, the twin cameras are on swivels. You could have both pointing out taking the same picture. Why would you do that? You could have both pointing in taking the same picture. Why would you do that? You could have both pointing to the side taking the pictures of the A pillars. Why would you do that? Personal choice. He chose to have one pointing in and one pointing out. Seems logical to me.Saves a bit of arguing if you're shunted from behind into the vehicle in front.

[Mick_Marsh]

Saves a bit of arguing if you're shunted from behind into the vehicle in front.
They need to market a camera that not only records what is happening in front but out the back as well.

[Davo]

They need to market a camera that not only records what is happening in front but out the back as well.

There are a few around. I know, I've been looking at cameras after our Falcon was bent in a carpark.

Anyway, I still don't see why one camera is pointing to the interior. And it's not so much his driving I'm unimpressed about, (since I've done similar things more times than I can remember), it's his not accepting any responsibility for it. I'm quite happy to admit it when I've been a dolt . . . it may take a while . . . but usually I'll get there. :angel:

[Mick_Marsh]

There are a few around. I know, I've been looking at cameras after our Falcon was bent in a carpark.
Perhaps you could post up which ones you have looked at and your thoughts on them.
There are a few "in car camera" threads already.

[isuzurover]

If you watch the video he goes through 2 sets of side marker posts about 4s apart. If they are on the standard 100m spacing, that makes his speed around 90 km/h.

[Davo]

If you watch the video he goes through 2 sets of side marker posts about 4s apart. If they are on the standard 100m spacing, that makes his speed around 90 km/h.

Hmmm! Nice work!

If you're into amateur forensics, (well, that's my excuse), you can find the exact spot on Google Earth, measure a stretch of road, check the time taken to travel it on the video, put it into an online speed calculator, and get 85kmh. Which was way too fast.

I had one student tell me that their dad had told them to go faster on gravel because "it smooths out the bumps"!

[superquag]

Armchair Expert (#1 son..) reckons Tojo was going too fast for the conditions anyway, and things went pear-shaped as soon as he started the last corner... a slooooww 'drift' being more difficult to recognize & control than a quick flick....(?) - that and hitting the drain on full lock (wrecking the tyre) which bounced and then tripped and flipped them.

Hoonish behaviour is his specialty not mine, so I dunno....:cool:

IMHO, if the road was good bitumen, 85 ~ 90 is do-able, albeit on the wrong side of "Acceptable" risk. But being covered in gravel changes everything.

I just think he was less than aware of changing conditions, and reacted late instead of pre-emptively pointing... Been there-Done That ! :angel:

Whatever, we should thank him for the educational aspect.

[superquag]

"...I had one student tell me that their dad had told them to go faster on gravel because "it smooths out the bumps"!

Hey, it worked for me when crossing the SA section of the Nullabor, y'know, the limestone UNsealed section as it was late last century.

My '67 Toyota Crown went best at around 80 to 85.

MPH, that is.:twisted:

- Keeping in front of my mate's XY Falcon was purely co-incidental, it was all about the smooother ride...

On the other hand, it was straight running, no bendy bits.

[Ancient Mariner]

Blame the kid did`nt call the pace notes:D

[ugu80]

Okay all you apologists, anyone know the distance between the power poles there. We have 2.75 seconds between power poles. Time and distance will give you speed.

Point 1. He is driving constantly on such road, at a reasonable clip I would say, with one hand on the wheel, even on the curves, his left hand looks like its resting on the gearstick, its not until he loses it does he use both hands.

Point 2. He travels centre on the road even on the curves where he has poor distance vision, making no allowance for someone driving as badly as he is coming the other way.

Point 3. The front r/h wheel is what hits the bank, no wonder its shredded.

Conclusion: Not just an error but bad driving practises contributing to the end result. Of course no one is bad driver, just ask them.

[FFR]

Glad to see they are OK, but... two police cars, fire brigade, the towing truck... where is the army ?

[vnx205]

I had one student tell me that their dad had told them to go faster on gravel because "it smooths out the bumps"!

That is quite likely an example of someone getting only half the story right or misunderstanding the real point of the story.

Perhaps it is also an example of Chinese Whispers where the story gradually changes as it is repeated until it bears no resemblance to the original.

There are situations where travelling faster over corrugations smooths out the bumps.

Somewhere between that fact, the father's advice and student's repetition of the advice, "corrugations" have become "unsealed roads" and then "gravel roads".

So the sometimes useful advice to drive faster on corrugations has become the dangerous advice to drive faster on gravel.

[Treads]

Okay, okay! I didn't put this up for all the armchair superheros to pick apart every little mistake he made :mad:

I reckon it was pretty ballsy to post up on youtube in the first place; seeing as it's full of the same apparently perfect drivers in their vastly superior vehicles :angel:

Posting this was intended as an education on child restraints and cargo barriers....



For the people interested, the camera he used was similar to this: x4000 Car DVR Portable Vehicle Camcorder Dual Camera Lens HD 1080P-in Car DVRs from Automobiles & Motorcycles on Aliexpress.com (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/x4000-Car-DVR-Portable-Vehicle-Camcorder-Dual-Camera-Lens-HD-1080P/1247080065.html)

[mick88]

One vehicle that comes to mind re cargo barriers are motorhomes!
There are so many of these vehicles around and they are often fitted out by their owners/back yarders and in the case of an accident the contents of cupbords etc, all become projectiles.


cheers, Mick.

[superquag]

"...Posting this was intended as an education on child restraints and cargo barriers...."

Indeed it is.

Plus thanks for the camera info, good value for only 30 US dollars.

[Davo]

Okay, okay! I didn't put this up for all the armchair superheros to pick apart every little mistake he made :mad:

I reckon it was pretty ballsy to post up on youtube in the first place; seeing as it's full of the same apparently perfect drivers in their vastly superior vehicles :angel:

Posting this was intended as an education on child restraints and cargo barriers....



For the people interested, the camera he used was similar to this: x4000 Car DVR Portable Vehicle Camcorder Dual Camera Lens HD 1080P-in Car DVRs from Automobiles & Motorcycles on Aliexpress.com (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/x4000-Car-DVR-Portable-Vehicle-Camcorder-Dual-Camera-Lens-HD-1080P/1247080065.html)

Oh, come on, this is AULRO - you should have known what was going to happen. :D

[wrinklearthur]

On the point of safety items not normally found in vehicles straight from the showroom, what do you consider is the most effective safety item that you can install yourself?

My guess is the hands free kit for a mobile phone.
.

[Davo]

On the point of safety items not normally found in vehicles straight from the showroom, what do you consider is the most effective safety item that you can install yourself?

My guess is the hands free kit for a mobile phone.
.

Driver training. :)

[wrinklearthur]

Originally Posted by wrinklearthur View Post
On the point of safety items not normally found in vehicles straight from the showroom, what do you consider is the most effective safety item that you can install
----in---- yourself?

My guess is the hands free kit for a mobile phone.


Driver training. :)

... :p

[Slunnie]

I think the cargo barrier. A basic ROPS and it keeps the kit from clobbering you in a crash.

[newhue]

Safest bit of kit I'd say is buy an all wheel or constant 4x4 drive car. I see at 16sec there is a roo. I don't think his travelling to fast though. Just over corrected with a rear wheel drive car when he spotted the roo.

Makes you wonder why in Australia we don't have skid pan training in our drivers license programme. We have so may dirts roads in Aus, it would make for better drivers all round. Perhaps a 5 year refresher would also come in handy.

It also beckons why it's not compulsory to have a cargo barrier in a wagon. Seat belts, child seats are all compulsory.