OK, who believes in UFO's? anyone seen one.

[bob10]

I know we could have a lot of fun with this, but, seriously, anyone actually seen something out of the ordinary. There are a lot of reports, from the land of the conspiracy theory, the USA , which, being a sceptic, I find difficult to believe. But, that does not mean they are not out there. Bob
Now this is a lecture from the former Defence Minister Of Canada. We can dismiss it as rubbish, or not, but either way, what is going on over there, that there are so many people who believe this.




Alien Contact - Canadian Defence Minister - Disclosure 2014 ? - YouTube (http://youtu.be/2xINSwvNx1A)

[vnx205]

What is going on over there?

The same thing that makes so many Americans believe that the world is only about 6,000 years old; the same thing that makes a significant number of Americans believe that the moon landing was a hoax; the same thing that makes some Americans believe that Elvis is still alive and well.

That speaker didn't produce any evidence of anything at all. The only thing he did was make claims about cover-ups.

A lot of people believe they have seen UFOs. That doesn't make UFOs any more real than some of the other nonsense that some people believe.

Where is the evidence? In an age when every trivial incident is recorded on someone's camera/phone, wouldn't you think that there would be hard evidence available?

The fact that a lot of Americans believe something means nothing.

[Chops]

I'm not sure if I believe or not,, but I reckon one night out the back at work having a smoke, a mate and I saw what we believed to be UFO's. Four of them in fact.
At first we thought they were maybe satellites, but then as they sped off, it was like,, woah, wtf was that. They were moving across the night sky quite quickly, then zipped off like shooting stars.
I don't know,, but I can't imagine we could make anything that would go that fast.

And no, the smoke was not weed :p

[bmw535guy]

Ive seen them enough times to justify buying a digital slr and appropriate lenses. Have caught quite a few unidentified object amongst all the satellites i caught. Im not saying their 100% real but i think it would be arrogant to think we are alone and from experience most people very very very rarely look into the sky.....and those that do seem to have seen a few themselves.
Ive attached one of my favourites, this is a cropped photo from a 12 megapixel large picture i took at approximately 2 in the morning a year or two ago...... nobody could explain it and rest of the photo was in focus at infinity with a 2 second shutter speed and was using a high end tripod

[Ferret]

Not sure about aliens on earth but a squirrels and mice have been discovered on Mars.

None of the usual indistinct and blurred pictures which could be anything - hi res and very clear photographic proof that rodents have colonised other planets beside Earth.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/154.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/155.jpg

[Will Wallace]

I want to believe.

[BathurstTom]

In the 1980's I worked with the Central Mapping Authority as a Surveyor's assistant. The Surveyor and myself were doing what is called Field Completion - driving a swb Landcruiser checking every track on a new (or revised map sheet) and categorising them into 4wd, 2 wd etc and noting anything showing up on aerial photos that was questioned.

Early one evening we were returning home to base (pub at Manilla) from out towards Kingstown (NSW) and we had a flashing light following us for about 5 kilometres or so. This thing was following the road around bends and up and down hills and was maybe 50 - 100 feet above ground. It eventually disappeared (we came around another corner, it didn't). There was no sound from this light - so we don't believe it was a helicopter. The surveyor checked for lost weather balloons - weren't any.


Don't know what it was, but it certainly had the hairs on the back of my neck standing up. Have never seen any other UFO's but for this one.



Tom.

[bob10]

Early one evening we were returning home to base (pub at Manilla) from out towards Kingstown (NSW) and we had a flashing light following us for about 5 kilometres or so. This thing was following the road around bends and up and down hills and was maybe 50 - 100 feet above ground. It eventually disappeared (we came around another corner, it didn't). There was no sound from this light - so we don't believe it was a helicopter. The surveyor checked for lost weather balloons - weren't any.


Don't know what it was, but it certainly had the hairs on the back of my neck standing up. Have never seen any other UFO's but for this one.



Tom.


Sounds like the Min Min light, as reported by a lot of people in far west Qld. No one is really sure what it is, Bob

[jackafrica]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/151.jpg

Saw the movie poster and...
captured one, live!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/152.jpg

[vnx205]

A common reason people believe that what they saw must have been a flying saucer is the speed at which it travels or the rate at which it accelerates. Their argument is that no earthly plane could manage that.

However, the problem with that argument is that there are ways that we can be fooled into thinking something in our field of view moved very quickly.

One of the clearest examples was some movie footage that appeared decades ago that fairly clearly showed a saucer shaped object travelling beside an passenger plane. It then appeared to accelerate at an incredible rate and disappeared.

The film was not a fake, but it didn't show a flying saucer. It was shot through the aircraft window at a bit of an angle. A very slight imperfection in the window created a crude lens that made a small oval part of the nearby wing appear to float in space.

As the angle of view through that crude lens changed, the visible part of the wing shrank and disappeared, creating the illusion that an object had moved very quickly.

Atmospheric conditions can created a similar effect. Anyone who doubts that has obviously never driven on long straight roads, especially in hot weather.

Everyone who has will remember the illusion that objects, including approaching vehicles several kilometres away appear to be floating above the road way.

The fact that someone saw a light appear to accelerate very quickly is no more proof of the existence of flying saucers than the appearance of cars floating above the road surface is evidence of hover-cars.

[mikehzz]

I think there are alternate realities or dimensions if you like, and that the commonly seen things like UFO's, black cats, yetis etc slip between them and back. It could also explain phenomina such as the Bermuda Triangle and Spontaneous Human Combustion. Science cannot prove my hunch because it is still too primitive. In a million years, I hope this forum is still available as an archive so that I can posthumously say I told you so... :cool:

[goingbush]

You would have to be pretty naive to think that Earth is the only one planet out of billions that has inetllegent life on it. (seems to me there is none here)

I took a time lapse photo of the northern sky from JC Ruins earlier in the year and it shows a pair of UFO's travelling upward and parellel to each other

hope someone has a theory as to what they might be

the anomolies are circled in this star trail compilation
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/146.jpg

link to time lapse compilation (35mb)
http://goingbush.com/2013/july/2jc2.mov

one the original high res images ex camera is here
http://goingbush.com/images/P7020138.JPG

[mikehzz]

I hate having my inetliegence questioned. :D

[Kev the Fridgy]

Do they exist?.... Lets consider a few things first, at this point our world scientists have not yet mapped out our oceans completely, there are at times new species of plants and animals still being discovered. There are still some land areas still not explored. So, based on the FACT we still do not know everything about our planet that in relative terms to the universe is minuscule in size and age/development etc, I can not grasp the arrogance to believe we are the only evolved species in the universe.


I have no proof, have not seen or experienced anything to convince me but I am educated enough to think that in all probability there are more evolved or less evolved planets somewhere off in the distance, I guess the question is, Are they more evolved than us to the point they have moved past the stage in evolution that they want to observe not destroy the inhabitants for there own consumption of raw materials and minerals, (or what's left).


As time goes on we may just find out.

[bob10]

I think there are alternate realities or dimensions if you like, and that the commonly seen things like UFO's, black cats, yetis etc slip between them and back. It could also explain phenomina such as the Bermuda Triangle and Spontaneous Human Combustion. Science cannot prove my hunch because it is still too primitive. In a million years, I hope this forum is still available as an archive so that I can posthumously say I told you so... :cool:


I try to keep an open mind, [ wife says I do it well, everything slips out], however , after many years at sea, in ships with modern air search radars , & electronic secret squirrel devices, to my knowledge, nothing out of the ordinary was seen. We lived in the bush for years when I was young, & saw heaps of shooting stars & satellites in the night sky. I haven't met some one who has had a UFO 'experience', but would listen respectfully if I did. I guess it's like the Yeti, or Yowie, haven't seen one, but..... Bob

[korg20000bc]

Well, scienctists believe that there are currently at leasts 10 dimensions -probably more. The human body is equipped with senses to detect four of them. That means that the lion's share of reality is not immediately apparent to us. That leaves heaps of lee-way for strange things to happen.
Obviously, we should seek mundane reasons for extraordinary happenings first- meteorological phenomena, advanced technology, mistaken identification, etc..
But, I don't think we can just wipe off clear observations of trained observers like pilots, astronauts, police officers and so on.
Personally, I'd take an reliable person's lucid experience over stacks of reasons why that person cannot have experienced what what they did. The "because you cannot provide me evidence you cannot have seen or experienced what you say you did" is spectacularly flawed, in my opinion.

[mikehzz]

Especially when the evidence has ****ed off to another dimension. :)

[vnx205]

Hermann von Helmholtz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hermann Ludwig Ferdinand von Helmholtz (August 31, 1821 – September 8, 1894) was a German physician and physicist who made significant contributions to several widely varied areas of modern science.

Helmholtz said, "I would never believe anything solely on the evidence of my eyes."

If you check the link, you will see why it would be unwise to dismiss his comment.

The same mathematics that some people use to support the notion that there must be other intelligent life somewhere in the universe also demonstrates how unlikely it is that we would have been visited by aliens.

There is a world of difference between saying that there must be other life out there and saying that they have visited us. A mathematical argument that we are not alone is not an argument that we have had visitors.

Go through a similar exercise done by those who calculate the mathematical likelihood of extra-terrestial life to calculate the chances of us having come in contact with other life. Arguments about worm holes or time travel become irrelevant simply because the probability is so small.

[Chops]

Interesting VNX, but I doubt your theory works in what I saw.
We were outside with no obstructions on a clear night.

But remember one thing,, what makes a UFO, is just that,, Unexplained Flying Object ;)

[goingbush]

Some people believe in God too, a lot more than believe in extraterrestial intelligence, there is no evidence to support Gods existence either.

God Is Not Great - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[vnx205]

Interesting VNX, but I doubt your theory works in what I saw.
We were outside with no obstructions on a clear night.
The atmospheric effects I am talking about are caused by temperature differences, inversion layers and such things, not by obstructions. Those conditions can exist on a clear night.

But remember one thing,, what makes a UFO, is just that,, Unexplained Flying Object ;)
That is true. :) If it was identified as a flying saucer, then it is no longer a UFO. :D


In fact what you genuinely believe you saw is a prime candidate for the sort of explanation I have offered.

[bob10]

Some people believe in God too, a lot more than believe in extraterrestial intelligence, there is no evidence to support Gods existence either.

God Is Not Great - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Is_Not_Great)


Amazing, some of the critical reviews panned it some lauded it, but check the sales history, Bob




Sales history[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php'title=God_Is_Not_Great&action=edit&section=22)]

The book was published on May 1, 2007, and within a week had reached No. 2 on the Amazon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon.com) bestsellers list[41] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Is_Not_Great#cite_note-41) (behind Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), and reached No. 1 on the New York Times Bestseller list in its third week.[42] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Is_Not_Great#cite_note-42)

[Naviguesser]

You would have to be pretty naive to think that Earth is the only one planet out of billions that has inetllegent life on it. (seems to me there is none here)

I took a time lapse photo of the northern sky from JC Ruins earlier in the year and it shows a pair of UFO's travelling upward and parellel to each other

hope someone has a theory as to what they might be

the anomolies are circled in this star trail compilation
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/146.jpg

link to time lapse compilation (35mb)
http://goingbush.com/2013/july/2jc2.mov

one the original high res images ex camera is here
http://goingbush.com/images/P7020138.JPG

The stationary lights would be geosynchronous satellites. The lines would most likely be meteors (shooting stars) :)

[vnx205]

Well, scienctists believe that there are currently at leasts 10 dimensions -probably more.
You write that as if it is believed by all scientists. I bet it is a tiny minority who support that view.

But, I don't think we can just wipe off clear observations of trained observers like pilots, astronauts, police officers and so on.
Those people have been shown to have been no better than the rest of us. See the link below.
Personally, I'd take an reliable person's lucid experience over stacks of reasons why that person cannot have experienced what what they did.
I wouldn't. :) I subscribe to the view of Hermann Ludwig Ferdinand von Helmholtz.
The "because you cannot provide me evidence you cannot have seen or experienced what you say you did" is spectacularly flawed, in my opinion.
Not as flawed as the argument, "I have no evidence, but I believe I saw it so I must have seen it."

IFOs/Part 1 (http://www.deltapro.co.uk/IFOguide.HTML)

Another important fact to remember is that there are - as far as UFO events are concerned - no "trained observers". In ufology the myth of the "infallible" trained observer is a long-entrenched one, often defended with zeal by UFO researchers( who should frankly know better!). The fallacy of this concept can be objectively demonstrated by any collection of reliable IFO statistics. For example, the famous American UFO study conducted by Allan Hendry during the late 1970's discovered that 75% of all "UFO" reports made by Pilots were actually IFOs. This figure ran at 94% in regards to reports made by Law Enforcement officials. Compare this with the approximately 87-88% IFO reporting rate by Clerical and Manual workers in that same study

[goingbush]

The stationary lights would be geosynchronous satellites. The lines would most likely be meteors (shooting stars) :)


Well perhaps but the "geosynchronous satellite' is only seen in one single frame of the series, in the series of 190 single images there is at least two regular meteors , one horizontal and one vertical,

but what about the two parallel 'meteors' that are travelling upward together and at the same speed ???
you have to play the movie a few times before you spot them, at the 11 second mark. http://goingbush.com/2013/july/2jc2.mov

[bob10]

Scratching around, I found this. Has statements from police Officers, normally reliable sources, you would think. Bob





https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/149.jpg Flying sorcery ... one of the restricted documents, now released. Photo: National Archives of Australia

It is probably the closest Australia has come to scrambling fighter jets to intercept a UFO.
Documents that have just become available under the 30-year rule at the National Archives of Australia reveal how two RAAF Mirage jets were placed on the second highest level of alert to determine the cause of unidentified radar contacts seen on screens at Mascot.
The ''X Files'' viewed in Canberra also give details of other unexplained sightings, some of which are supported by witness statements to police.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/150.jpg Mysterious ... a colour-enhanced photo of a UFO seen from Bendigo. One caller dismissed it as a rock band's laser show. Photo: National Archives of Australia

In the Sydney alert, the papers stamped ''restricted'' tell how operation ''Close Encounter'' was launched by No.3 Control and Reporting Unit at RAAF Base Williamtown near Newcastle on June 30, 1983, after the phenomenon was first noticed earlier in the month.



Senior air controllers at Mascot said the contacts were mostly located between 70 and 150 nautical miles north of Sydney at ''alleged speeds of 1100-6500 km/h that suggested high altitude''.
The papers state that no scramble was to occur in the round-the-clock operation unless confirmation of any reported tracks was made on the radar screens at RAAF Williamtown or any radar other than Sydney.
At the same time, three senior air defence controllers were dispatched to Sydney to investigate and plot every contact and ''control interceptors against these contacts if a reasonable chance of interception presented itself''. But then one of the defence controllers, a squadron leader, asked whether a comparison had been made of the contacts on the screens of Mascot's Area Approach Radar Centre and those in a ''workshop across the corridor''. Soon after, tests showed that the ''unidentified objects reported by Sydney were generated entirely by radar interference known colloquially as 'running rabbits' ''.



Squadron leader K. Keenan, in his six-page report, said operation Close Encounter cost 66½ days of overtime, 1000 kilometres was travelled by a staff car and a C130 Hercules transport aircraft ''may have been diverted to Sydney airport'' to deliver one of the defence controllers.
He wrote: ''The lines of communication, extending as they did across the width of an entire corridor, seem to have been insufficient for the purpose.''
He added rather dryly: ''Fortunately there was no temptation to launch aircraft and add to the fuel bill occasioned by use of the RAAF Datsun.'' A cautiously worded statement was released as a result ''in a manner that would not embarrass departmental personnel'' which blamed ''random atmospheric conditions''. Other reports in the X Files give details of an ''unidentified physical feature'' of circles on Milo Station at Adavale, Queensland, in 1982. The file refers to photographs that apparently were taken, but they were not among the papers.



Constable Geoffrey Russell, from the local police station, visited the site and wrote a report for RAAF Base Amberley near Ipswich. The officer saw depressions in the ground and thought they were caused by a motorcyclist doing donuts but then dismissed the idea.
He wrote: ''I strongly feel this [is] no hoax even though I do not know the cause of this 'feature'.''
He described a large circle of 2330mm in diameter with one inner circle of 2010mm which were 160mm in width and about 15-20 mm deep. The soil around the outer circle appeared to have been ''blown away'', he said.
Elsewhere in Queensland, dairy farmer Robin Priebe phoned Imbil police at 5.30am in July 1983 to report seeing a strange object in the sky to the north of the town. The papers state that a Sergeant Waterson then went to his back verandah and saw ''a large white light with several flashing lights around it'' which did not appear to be a normal aircraft.



A similar sighting was made by Constable R. Keys from a separate position. He was also of the opinion that it wasn't a normal aircraft.
Mr Priebe said both he and his wife saw a bright red glow gradually change to a white light which then started to move slowly east. Through binoculars, ''the light was disc shaped with a very bright light around the perimeter of the disc with two flashing lights in the front and one to the side'', he said.
The only photographs in the X Files were of unusual lights over Bendigo, witnessed by hundreds in May 1983. An interim report by the RAAF stated that Mike Evans, a 17-year-old disc jockey with the Bendigo radio station 3BO, received calls from listeners, then saw the lights himself and took photos.



One anonymous caller to the RAAF said the lights were caused by a rock group experimenting with laser lighting. The report said they were probably caused by train headlights or lasers or from planets or stars. There had been unusual weather atmospherics on the night.
Zoe¨ D'Arcy, director of digital and online access at the National Archives, said: ''Where you and I might think UFO - a spaceship - the RAAF and other agencies were probably wondering if there was a security threat.
''Most of the files you read and you think that most probably was a meteorite, but there are ones that you read and you think - well, what could that have been?
''I can't explain that from my knowledge.
''So what was it that these people have experienced? It has that open-ended question to it that I find really intriguing.''



Read more: Secret UFO files released (http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci-tech/secret-ufo-files-released-20120804-23mhq.html#ixzz2oWqbu86c)

[jboot51]

Speaking of MinMin Lights.


About 16 years ago I was travelling from Cairns to Brisbane in my defender.
Sometime after midnight with little to no traffic on the road 2 lights appeared in my rear vision mirror. They appeared to come from no where.


These lights looked light car headlights but where dimly lit, like a pair of dolphin torches with the batteries nearly flat, I could almost make out the bulb filaments.


The lights seemed to be right behind me, within 20 meters.
I flicked my indicator for them to pass......no response
I checked my side mirrors, there was nothing/no one there.
When I sped up, the lights stayed with me, I slowed down, still there.


Now I was worried, to say the least.
Put the pedal down and run like hell, well as fast as the defender would let me. Whilst trying to achieve Vmax, I'm reaching out to adjust my side mirror, to get a bit more elevation. All sorts of weird stuff is going through my head........sheer panic....heart racing....lights are still there.


Then as suddenly as they appeared, they were gone.


I wasn't stopping in the middle of nowhere, so I carried on to the next town and pulled over.


I climbed out of the defender, a little shaken, confused.
Looking back up the highway into the darkness I see the lights again, a lot brighter this time, but getting closer and closer.


With a roar and rumble the lights went right past me, attached to the front of a B-Double heading south. Must have been 12 inch spotties.


Mystery solved, sort of.
I can only put it down to some sort of optical/reflective perfect scenario involving the ute cab rear window and the front and rear glass windows of my fiberglass canopy.
The lights chased my for no more than 5 minutes.
For those 5 minutes, I WAS A BELIEVER.


That's my story.
Cheers,
Tony

[olbod]

Try to find and read "Breeds there a man ", a short story by Isaac Asimov.
We discovered another dimension, we came a gutsa.

I believe that they are out there but it would be stupid to think that they would really make their presence known before we come of age.
Maybe never.
Sad.
Sigh.

[vnx205]

Scratching around, I found this. Has statements from police Officers, normally reliable sources, you would think. Bob


In fact, they are no more reliable than the rest of us. See post #24.

[ugu80]

There is intelligent life on Earth? Maybe aliens haven't made contact because they haven't found intelligent life yet.

[Ausfree]

You would have to be pretty naive to think that Earth is the only one planet out of billions that has inetllegent life on it. (seems to me there is none here)

I took a time lapse photo of the northern sky from JC Ruins earlier in the year and it shows a pair of UFO's travelling upward and parellel to each other

hope someone has a theory as to what they might be

the anomolies are circled in this star trail compilation
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/146.jpg

link to time lapse compilation (35mb)
http://goingbush.com/2013/july/2jc2.mov

one the original high res images ex camera is here
http://goingbush.com/images/P7020138.JPG

My theory is after watching the clip is that it was taken at dusk and the object described as a "Geosynchronis Satellite" (sorry about the spelling) is indeed a satellite that has been overtaken by the Earth's shaddow and appeared to "disappear", it is still there but no longer lit up by the sun. The fast moving objects are meteors and there are many of them because it is (possibly) part of a meteor shower. Knowing the date the photo was taken you can look up on the internet if there was a meteor shower that night.

The other thing is the so-called "Geo-satellite" (that gets me out of trying to spell it again:p) maybe a meteor that is coming directly towards you and burns out high in the atmosphere and disappears.:D
Thats my theory anyway!!!!!:)

[Ausfree]

Taking July 2013 on your link as the date taken and checking the internet there is a meteor shower that peaks on July 30th every year.

It's the Delta-Aquarid shower which peaks at ten meteors per hour in the predawn sky and best seen in the Southern Hemisphere. Just because it peaks in the dawn sky doesn't mean it is not visible at other times of the night (or day if we could see them).

Anyrate, it's all just a theory, which I suggest fits!!!!:D

[goingbush]

here is a 100% crop of the part I'm talking about, they are only visible for 3 frames, one each side of this frame, only prob I have with them being part of a meteor shower is they are falling upwards ??

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/994.jpg

they were taken Tues 2 July 2013 looking north, 7.54pm

what is that website where I can punch in location co-ords and date to see if this matches ??

[Ausfree]

The fact that they appear to be going upwards is an optical illusion. :) If you look at a high altitude airliner flying over and leaving a vapour trail, it also appears to be flying upwards instead of straight and level.:)

[Ausfree]

Try this.......

Meteors (http://www.rasnz.org.nz/Meteors/2013Meteors.shtml)

The diagram in this clip showing a meteor "radiant" will help explain why some meteors appear to be flying upwards when in fact they are falling toward the Earth.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/12/13/geminids-meteor-shower-2013-friday-night-is-your-best-chance-to-get-a-look-at-the-annual-spectacle/

[Homestar]

A meteor can appear to move at any angle in the sky depending on which direction it hits the atmosphere relative to the viewer. Think about it this way - if the meteors were heading towards us from the opposite side of the earth, and rather than them having a direct trajectory for us, they skim the atmosphere and then burn up, they would look they are going straight up - no mystery at all, it happens all the time. The fact they were only visible for a few frames seems to confirm that they were small meteors that burnt up quickly as the hit our atmosphere.

[Homestar]

Try this.......

Meteors (http://www.rasnz.org.nz/Meteors/2013Meteors.shtml)

The diagram in this clip showing a meteor "radiant" will help explain why some meteors appear to be flying upwards when in fact they are falling toward the Earth.

Geminids Meteor Shower 2013: Friday night may be best chance to get a look at the annual spectacle | National Post (http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/12/13/geminids-meteor-shower-2013-friday-night-is-your-best-chance-to-get-a-look-at-the-annual-spectacle/)

Thanks - You beat me to it - that was sort of what I was trying to explain.:)

[Ausfree]

Thanks - You beat me to it - that was sort of what I was trying to explain.:)
Yeah, it's hard on the internet trying to explain something sometimes. Not like face to face, but I see what you are getting at in your post!!!:D:D Looking at my airliner example, my wife often comments that an airliner is flying straight up (she is a blonde) and can't see what I am trying to say when I try and explain it is an optical illusion.

[superquag]

Yeah, it's hard on the internet trying to explain something sometimes. Not like face to face, but I see what you are getting at in your post!!!:D:D Looking at my airliner example, my wife often comments that an airliner is flying straight up (she is a blonde) .....and can't see what I am trying to say when I try and explain it is an optical illusion.

Lucky for you Blondes can't read LR Forums.... :p:p:p

[2 rocks]

I want to believe.

:p
As an avid consumer of science fiction for many, many years, I would like nothing better than for the existence of other sentient life to be confirmed.

Unfortunately, my education and reason suggests to me this is unlikely to occur in my lifetime. Setting aside wishful dreams of FTL drives or harnessing wormholes for travel, the likelihood of anyone 'dropping by' is fairly slim to say the least.

But as Will ( and Fox) said above, I want to believe... :D

[superquag]

Being a eager-beaver True Believer (wannabe) is not a pre-requisite for seeing UFOs.
Friend of mine has seen a couple and it was enough for him to spend years actively chasing reports (in WA) and interviewing folk. - Dragged me along for many of his country runs.
Never found 'irrefutable evidence' like a discarded phaser ... but we learnt a heck of a lot about everything from aeronautics, to meteorology to Religions to sceptics to .....Witchcraft and Yetis. :eek:

No, he was'nt soft in the head... indeed the opposite. Even a comment such as "Nice day today" would be met with "Prove it!" and 20 Questions...

And he was being serious. :o

My own comment (OK, even from a Biblical perspective, which I may as well disclose seeing as there is no such thing as an 'UNbiased' opinion) is "Whatever..." Either way does not alter 'Religion'. Or White Man's Voodoo (a.k.a. Science )

IF we are visited by a superior -or more experienced - life-form, then they're smart enough to remain cloaked, and their technology out of our hands. Observation of our species would continually affirm the wisdom of this... I don't see us being assimilated as we'd offer nothing to the Collective except disruption...:angel:

Anyway, just because we lack the instrumentation to measure or see something, does not mean it is'nt (or was'nt) there.

[Ausfree]

Lucky for you Blondes can't read LR Forums.... :p:p:p
Shhh,she might hear you and I will get a whack over the ear!!!!:p

[ramblingboy42]

I have previously been an avid UFO researcher and am now a confirmed skeptic. I have seen many lights and things in the night, but the best I have seen myself (with my 20yo son as witness) was November last year in Fiji . A loose v-formation of orange coloured lights moved towards us slowly across the sky and all banked right and each one blinked out as it moved away. I have reported this in a previous UFO thread here. At about the same time there were a number of similar sightings across Port Phillip Bay. They were genuine UFO's...unidentified flying objects. Lots of people saw those. They weren't martians or et's, just unidentified things in the sky at night. Look up at night...you're sure to see something unidentified moving up there.

[isuzurover]

Lots of gullible people on here...

If you can't understand or explain something the easy option is to say it is the work of (magic/aliens/gods).

If people in the 1800s were to see a modern electric multicopter fly past, I am sure many would assume it was the work of (miniature) aliens... (or witchcraft, etc...)

[vnx205]

IF we are visited by a superior -or more experienced - life-form, then they're smart enough to remain cloaked, and their technology out of our hands. Observation of our species would continually affirm the wisdom of this... I don't see us being assimilated as we'd offer nothing to the Collective except disruption...:angel:

Anyway, just because we lack the instrumentation to measure or see something, does not mean it is'nt (or was'nt) there.

I guess if you are determined to believe in spite of the complete lack of evidence then that is a handy argument to use; "It was there but we don't have the technology to see it".

I can see all sorts of applications for that argument. I think I will advance the notion that the moon is made of cheese. When evidence about the nature of the moon rocks brought back to Earth appears to refute that, I can just claim that our instruments are too primitive to determine the type of cheese that it is, so the instruments just identify it as rock.

Now anything is possible. :p

[vnx205]

Lots of gullible people on here...

If you can't understand or explain something the easy option is to say it is the work of (magic/aliens/gods).

If people in the 1800s were to see a modern electric multicopter fly past, I am sure many would assume it was the work of (miniature) aliens... (or witchcraft, etc...)

What amuses me is the way those people say we have to have an open mind about these things. It seems to me that automatically ascribing everything we can't easily explain to magic/aliens/gods is a perfect example of a closed mind.

[ugu80]

The fact that they appear to be going upwards is an optical illusion. :) If you look at a high altitude airliner flying over and leaving a vapour trail, it also appears to be flying upwards instead of straight and level.:)
Really! This is the first I have heard of this. I live under the Melbourne-Brisbane air corridor with 4000 metre high vapour trails every day and they have never looked, to me, as anything but horizontal, level flight. Is this the power of suggestion (people are innately gullible otherwise there would be no advertising industry). People are told vapour trails look to be ascending therefore that is what people believe; I have never been told this, ergo, the vapour trails look level to me. Pereidolia.

[vnx205]

If you haven't seen it, then that is just because you live in the wrong place.

A bit of research and a bit of basic geometry will show you how it works. You just have to observe it from the right place.

Try here for a start.
A Problem of Perspective - New Year's Eve Contrail - Contrail Science » Contrail Science (http://contrailscience.com/a-problem-of-perspective-in-the-oc-new-years-eve-contrail/)

[ugu80]

I see, it's coming straight at you from the horizon. Ta.

[Chucaro]

I just wonder, if a UFO land in Australia with individuals on board, they will be send to Nauru,PNG or any other refugee camp?

[87County]

I just wonder, if a UFO land in Australia with individuals on board, they will be send to Nauru,PNG or any other refugee camp?

very good Chucaro :D


no visas, no entry permits !

[Ausfree]

Really! This is the first I have heard of this. I live under the Melbourne-Brisbane air corridor with 4000 metre high vapour trails every day and they have never looked, to me, as anything but horizontal, level flight. Is this the power of suggestion (people are innately gullible otherwise there would be no advertising industry). People are told vapour trails look to be ascending therefore that is what people believe; I have never been told this, ergo, the vapour trails look level to me. Pereidolia.
How about that.......I live under the Sydney, Brisbane flight path and as the airliner moves over toward the horizon, it appears as an optical illusion not to be going level when you know logically that it is.!!! the airliner at this point is at 30,000ft not 4,000 metres, so it is a lot higher. Thanks VNX205 for your full explanation of the illusion.

[Chucaro]

It would be interesting how they will stop the UFO..........
Perhaps we can send the politicians to the "original port of departure"to see if they can negotiate purchasing the UFO. :angel:
It will make our an awesome air force :D
Bugger! I just wonder if the vino from last night still in my body :angel:

[Ausfree]

Just thought I would throw this one in the mix. What if we are the most advanced civilization in the Universe and any other alien life forms are still at the amoeba stage. Interesting thought don't you think.

[Ausfree]

Whoops tried to post twice!!

[benji]

I'm sort of with Chops on this one. I had two orange lights chase me from Bellarine and disappear half way to Drysdale. Being frightened to brown undies level I put the foot down - those rover sd2s really move to - and I wasn't able to outrun it.

Telling mum the next day she stopped me half way through and told me the lights dissappeared at Scotchman's Road - the same thing happened to her in the 70's.

But saying that , Dad did up an WW2 carbon arc reflector light and generator for some anniversary of the Queenscliffe fort - we were testing it one night by aiming it on some heavy cirrus cloud, and the reflections could be seen on the lower levels of moisture which made for some very solid looking objects that moved very fast as the light danced around.

Sent from my GT-I9305T using AULRO mobile app

[Tote]

Camping near Tamworth in the 90's I was sitting in the back of the ute before going to sleep at about 02:00 entertaining myself watching the a satellite move across the sky. To my surprise it took a right angle turn and continued in that direction until it faded out 5 minutes later. I have no rational explanation to offer for this UFO.
Regards,
Tote

[Ferret]

Anyway, just because we lack the instrumentation to measure or see something, does not mean it is'nt (or was'nt) there.

The Argument From Ignorance.

Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson: UFOs and The Argument From Ignorance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSJElZwEI8o&feature=youtu.be)

[vnx205]

The Argument From Ignorance.

Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson: UFOs and The Argument From Ignorance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSJElZwEI8o&feature=youtu.be)

That is worth watching.

I notice he agrees with Hermann Ludwig Ferdinand von Helmholtz about eye witness reports being next to useless.

[Ausfree]

Camping near Tamworth in the 90's I was sitting in the back of the ute before going to sleep at about 02:00 entertaining myself watching the a satellite move across the sky. To my surprise it took a right angle turn and continued in that direction until it faded out 5 minutes later. I have no rational explanation to offer for this UFO.
Regards,
Tote
Maybe it got dizzy from go round and round the Earth all the time!!:p

Sorry, couldn't help myself!!!:D

[Homestar]

Camping near Tamworth in the 90's I was sitting in the back of the ute before going to sleep at about 02:00 entertaining myself watching the a satellite move across the sky. To my surprise it took a right angle turn and continued in that direction until it faded out 5 minutes later. I have no rational explanation to offer for this UFO.
Regards,
Tote

Could have been a military sat, being moved to a different task. Was it painted in camo...:D:wasntme:

[Dougal]

If I was an alien, I'd play mind games with the least believed country on earth too.

[bob10]

Yeah, it's hard on the internet trying to explain something sometimes. Not like face to face, but I see what you are getting at in your post!!!:D:D Looking at my airliner example, my wife often comments that an airliner is flying straight up (she is a blonde) and can't see what I am trying to say when I try and explain it is an optical illusion.

We should remember, from some of the things on the internet I have checked out, if indeed the Aliens are reading our minds, blondes may be our first line of defence, [ sorry did not mean to make light of the subject too good a moment to miss] Bob

[Chops]

I don't know, but you guys can try and ramble on all you want about light fractioning etc, and about how we all put things down to God, UFO's , magic, or whatever theory you want.
People seem to look for any excuse they can to steer people away from believing "we are not" the only being's in the universe. It's like they are too scared to think that somewhere out there in the universe, there are beings far more intelligent than "us mere mortals". God forbid something out there could teach us something. This, is a closed mind in action IMHO.

I fully understand scientific criteria is needed to confirm etc, but not all things at this point, "in our current knowledge base" is fully explainable (is that a word?).
Has science come up with an explanation / proof of what has happened in the Bermuda Triangle yet?
I'm sure there are probably plenty of other examples of things that science hasn't yet worked out. Doesn't mean that it won't, but why is it, that because something hasn't categorically been "proven" above and beyond all doubt by science, the answer must be, everybody's imagining things??

Are these people really that scared of the possibility of other life forms?

[vnx205]

There is an enormous difference between accepting that there might be other intelligent life in the universe and believing that other life forms have visited our own planet.

It is entirely possible to accept the likelihood of alien life forms while arguing that there are simple explanations for the vast majority of UFO sightings.

[vnx205]

Has science come up with an explanation / proof of what has happened in the Bermuda Triangle yet?


Yes it has. There is nothing special about it.

Skeptic » Skepticism 101 » The Bermuda Triangle (http://www.skeptic.com/skepticism-101/the-bermuda-triangle/?gclid=CIrk3_TozbsCFW9apgodqE4AxA)
Popular culture has attributed these disappearances to the paranormal or supernatural or extraterrestrial intelligences, but evidence indicates that a significant percentage of the incidents were inaccurately reported or embellished by later authors, and numerous official agencies have stated that the number and nature of disappearances in the region is similar to that in any other area of ocean.


Also
http://www.livescience.com/23435-bermuda-triangle.html

[bee utey]

I don't know, but you guys can try and ramble on all you want about light fractioning etc, and about how we all put things down to God, UFO's , magic, or whatever theory you want.
People seem to look for any excuse they can to steer people away from believing "we are not" the only being's in the universe. It's like they are too scared to think that somewhere out there in the universe, there are beings far more intelligent than "us mere mortals". God forbid something out there could teach us something. This, is a closed mind in action IMHO.

I fully understand scientific criteria is needed to confirm etc, but not all things at this point, "in our current knowledge base" is fully explainable (is that a word?).
Has science come up with an explanation / proof of what has happened in the Bermuda Triangle yet?
I'm sure there are probably plenty of other examples of things that science hasn't yet worked out. Doesn't mean that it won't, but why is it, that because something hasn't categorically been "proven" above and beyond all doubt by science, the answer must be, everybody's imagining things??

Are these people really that scared of the possibility of other life forms?

The only thing that is absolutely certain about "aliens" is that human beings have fertile imaginations and will never stop believing their favourite fairy tales, despite all evidence being to the negative. The sheer scale of the universe and the ability of humans to kill each other on a grand scale suggests that contact with an alien culture is incredibly unlikely.

Now the flip side to "imagine if this was true" is of course "where's your evidence" so colour me unimpressed with your impassioned plea for the recognition of non human intelligence. Why is it that trends in "alien" experience closely follow TV trends? Why is it that "aliens" are only interested in anally probing overweight Americans? Because, it's a 99.9999999999999999999999999% chance that there are NO aliens and it's just our overwound imaginations making stuff up.

And finally, if any "aliens" were to visit earth, why do they flit around in the dark only being snapped in rotten grainy photos? Any "alien" worth it's salt would land in front of St. Peter's Basilica and tell the chief honcho in there a few home truths.:cool:

Reading on the possibility of aliens: (http://science.howstuffworks.com/space/aliens-ufos/extraterrestrial-life-odds.htm)

[Chops]

So correct me if I'm wrong,, "no scientist" believes in God,, of any persuasion? This would also include those that have to have things "proven" to them, with logic, science or perhaps "seeing is believing" type explanations.

Looking at those two websites, the first, when you look down at the comments section, has some guy telling some woman, he needs to be "slapping her cheeks with facts",, Thanks, but I'll pass on reading through a website with that lot in tow.

Your second website however, could prove more interesting. I can see how some facts end up as Chinese Whispers, but, it's still a case of your guys not really presenting facts. That said, I'll say too that it's highly probable the initial facts may not have been correct either.
Now, not that I'm important, but I personally have not seen or heard of the "first reports", from the Forces, Airlines, Shipping companies as such, except what's been on TV docco's, but I haven't seen the "return reports" either from the scientist side.
It's easy for them to say magnetic this and that back then was all wrong, but where are the planes and ships now,,, those that are verified as missing.

[Chops]

Hehehe

Nice one Bee Utey
I have no comeback for that, other than to say, they get what they deserve. :eek:

Don't get me wrong, I'm far from believing everything I hear, but I'm sorry, I can't go with "science hasn't figured it out, so it can't be" attitude.
Sometimes,, seeing is believing, even if I can't prove it. ;)
I'm sure as well, grainy hoax pics etc are there to beat us up heaps, and it comes and goes it seems, when people are bored maybe,, or maybe there a few out there who just have the need to try and make others believe,, a bit like preaching I suppose.

I can't explain what I saw,, and I doubt I'll ever see it again, but you'll not be able to convince me that it "wasn't" a UFO.

[Cobber]

Driving along the Tanami early one morning, still dark, I saw red lights that were most definitely not a reflection or a light from a source on the ground. There was nothing to confuse these with in the still night sky. After a couple of minutes they vanished :confused: I'm not about to explain these off as 'UFO' sighting because there may well have been something going on I didn't know about although I'm certain I didn't imagine it. :)

[isuzurover]

...

Are these people really that scared of the possibility of other life forms?

If the universe is infinite then there are definitely alien life forms out there on a planet somewhere. However the odds of there being intelligent humanoid aliens on a planet close enough to travel to earth are infinitessimally small...

The problem is that scientists (in relevant fields) understand mathematics, physics and probability theory.

[Naviguesser]

There is an enormous difference between accepting that there might be other intelligent life in the universe and believing that other life forms have visited our own planet.

It is entirely possible to accept the likelihood of alien life forms while arguing that there are simple explanations for the vast majority of UFO sightings.

+1. Agreed entirely

[Chucaro]

If the universe is infinite then there are definitely alien life forms out there on a planet somewhere. However the odds of there being intelligent humanoid aliens on a planet close enough to travel to earth are infinitessimally small...

The problem is that scientists (in relevant fields) understand mathematics, physics and probability theory.

Limited by their knowledge that evolves continually and in many cases proving the previous theories wrong ;)

[bee utey]

Don't get me wrong, I'm far from believing everything I hear, but I'm sorry, I can't go with "science hasn't figured it out, so it can't be" attitude.


See this encapsulates the difference between a layperson and a scientist.

Scientist: "The chance of intelligent "aliens" coming to Earth is extremely small, but not zero. Until decent evidence is presented, we'll say that on balance you are likely to be wrong."

The layperson says: I know what I saw! I Beliiieeeve it was Aliens. Prove me wrong, scientists!"

There is a major difference between saying "it can't be" and "it is very unlikely to be" and that difference is the mathematical heart of the matter. Unless you have a working knowledge of mathematics and probability theory you haven't a snowball's chance of appreciating the difference.

Scientists never stop looking for better evidence, laypeople hunker down with emotional pleas to allow belief to flourish.

Merry Solstice celebrations to you! Keep looking up at the stars, for one day one may fall on you (for a sufficiently small value of "may".):p

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[bee utey]

Limited by their knowledge that evolves continually and in many cases proving the previous theories wrong ;)
And in many more cases proving their previous theories correct, but limited in application. Just like Einstein's relativity not destroying the Newtonian view of celestial mechanics, but adding to it.:)

[Chucaro]

See this encapsulates the difference between a layperson and a scientist.

Scientist: "The chance of intelligent "aliens" coming to Earth is extremely small, but not zero. Until decent evidence is presented, we'll say that on balance you are likely to be wrong."

The layperson says: I know what I saw! I Beliiieeeve it was Aliens. Prove me wrong, scientists!"

There is a major difference between saying "it can't be" and "it is very unlikely to be" and that difference is the mathematical heart of the matter. Unless you have a working knowledge of mathematics and probability theory you haven't a snowball's chance of appreciating the difference.

Scientists never stop looking for better evidence, laypeople hunker down with emotional pleas to allow belief to flourish.

Merry Solstice celebrations to you! Keep looking up at the stars, for one day one may fall on you (for a sufficiently small value of "may".):p



"Scientists never stop looking for better evidence" because they know (deeply inside) that their mathematics can be faulty therefore they know that "the unlike view"is is just base on that skeptic ideas deeply formed during their strictly formal education were it is "tabu" to have a different view to the "elite"in the field.
It is wrong to have a firm view on something when the theory it is base in a possible wrong mathematical formula. It is an irrational position.
We, the ones with open mind and who accept the limitations of the human knowledge do not go along with the "it is not possible or exists until proved other ways"
I prefer the honest and open mind view of scientists like Rupert Sheldrake :)

[Chops]

If the universe is infinite then there are definitely alien life forms out there on a planet somewhere. However the odds of there being intelligent humanoid aliens on a planet close enough to travel to earth are infinitessimally small...

The problem is that scientists (in relevant fields) understand mathematics, physics and probability theory.


See this encapsulates the difference between a layperson and a scientist.

Scientist: "The chance of intelligent "aliens" coming to Earth is extremely small, but not zero. Until decent evidence is presented, we'll say that on balance you are likely to be wrong."

The layperson says: I know what I saw! I Beliiieeeve it was Aliens. Prove me wrong, scientists!"

There is a major difference between saying "it can't be" and "it is very unlikely to be" and that difference is the mathematical heart of the matter. Unless you have a working knowledge of mathematics and probability theory you haven't a snowball's chance of appreciating the difference.

Scientists never stop looking for better evidence, laypeople hunker down with emotional pleas to allow belief to flourish.

Merry Solstice celebrations to you! Keep looking up at the stars, for one day one may fall on you (for a sufficiently small value of "may".):p

http://indymedia.org.au/files/russian-meteor_0%5B1%5D.jpg


So essentially, what you are saying is, uneducated people such as myself have to accept the fact that because you are educated and tell us it's "highly unlikely" because you can't actually prove/disprove, then we are wrong to think that there could be someone else out there. And in the same breath you are assuming, through your mathematical genius that other life forms are just as dumb as me, and anyone who happens to have any emotional thinking.
So I'll go with the scientists theory that the four lights I saw that night were some kind of optical illusion that can be explained away.
At this point, I'm glad to be uneducated. I'd like to think that we are not alone as such. It may take a long time to prove it, eg; indisputable pics, film or whatever. I'll be long gone no doubt, but whilst they're learning how to get further to other planets for exploration etc, the hope remains :D

See what you've started Bob ;)

[isuzurover]

...




So essentially, what you are saying is, uneducated people such as myself have to accept the fact that because you are educated and tell us it's "highly unlikely" because you can't actually prove/disprove, then we are wrong to think that there could be someone else out there. And in the same breath you are assuming, through your mathematical genius that other life forms are just as dumb as me, and anyone who happens to have any emotional thinking.
So I'll go with the scientists theory that the four lights I saw that night were some kind of optical illusion that can be explained away.
At this point, I'm glad to be uneducated. I'd like to think that we are not alone as such. It may take a long time to prove it, eg; indisputable pics, film or whatever. I'll be long gone no doubt, but whilst they're learning how to get further to other planets for exploration etc, the hope remains :D

See what you've started Bob ;) ...


Just like arguments about religion or politics, these sort of arguments become pointless, as many insist on "believing" despite the facts...

All the "evidence" posted on here so far has been conclusively explained without the need to resort to aliens...

We have 2 possibilities:
1. Aliens are able to travel to earth's atmosphere and zoom around without landing, communicating or leaving any tangible evidence of their visit.
2. Natural atmospheric phenomena etc.. were responsible.

[stallie]

Going Bush,

There is a friendly bunch on a forum called iceinspace.com.au, much like here.

Sign up and put a post asking for any explanation of the phenomenon you see in your pictures, and I am sure you will have within hours a very detailled explanation...

You'll need date, time, lat long.

PS - don't start by saying that you think they are UFOs!

[Mick_Marsh]

Why is it that whenever UFO's are mentioned, the conversation turns to little green men?

I have seen many things (objects), not on the ground (flying) that I have no idea what it is (unidentified).

Oh, by the way, life from another planet (alien) has landed on earth. Scientists have been studying the fossilised remains for years.

[goingbush]

Why is it that whenever UFO's are mentioned, the conversation turns to little green men?

I have seen many things (objects), not on the ground (flying) that I have no idea what it is (unidentified).

Oh, by the way, life from another planet (alien) has landed on earth. Scientists have been studying the fossilised remains for years.

eg ??

Scientists Uncover The Very First ‘Official’ Proof Of Extraterrestrial Life | Collective-Evolution (http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/09/16/extraterrestrial-fossils-uncovered-inside-meteorite-found-in-sri-lanka/)

[Mick_Marsh]

eg ??

Scientists Uncover The Very First ‘Official’ Proof Of Extraterrestrial Life | Collective-Evolution (http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/09/16/extraterrestrial-fossils-uncovered-inside-meteorite-found-in-sri-lanka/)
And
Life on Mars? | Science & Nature | Smithsonian Magazine (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/life_mars.html)

[korg20000bc]

Just like arguments about religion or politics, these sort of arguments become pointless, as many insist on "believing" despite the facts...


I like how you slipped that one in. Like it is all sewn up that religious beliefs are false and the "facts" are all against "religion" (whatever that is).

Probably better to say that you don't find anything convincing in religion (whatever that it). It seems like you're saying that if anyone believes otherwise they are gullible or ignorant of the facts.

It is like there is a new class of truth-brokers. Your clear experience must pass our tests and fact-checking otherwise you are mistaken, ignorant or gullible. Woe-betide anyone who believes otherwise.

I'm all for scientific pursuit and the quest for knowledge but don't tell me how I must interpret the facts or what those facts mean.

[bee utey]

To the non scientists on here, demanding that science not close its eyes to your pet theories I say this:

Science doesn't work that way!!!!!!

I say if you want to convince a scientist that your theory is correct, provide the evidence. A piece of "alien" manufactured material with obvious non-earth related DNA would do, for starters.

Remember there is nothing that can ever have "100% proof/disproof" there can only be "evidence of something, beyond reasonable doubt." That is not to say that science doesn't change its collective minds, but only if new, overwhelming evidence makes it clear that a previous theory is sufficiently disproved. A bunch of assertions on a public forum ain't gonna cut the mustard.

BTW I don't think of scientifically uneducated people as "just as dumb as me" because I think everyone who wants to can learn this stuff for themselves. There's plenty of reading material that will introduce you to scientific thinking and analysis. Who knows, your BS detector may need a total rewire afterwards.:p.

Cheers and happy theorising!

[Ferret]

It is like there is a new class of truth-brokers. Your clear experience must pass our tests and fact-checking otherwise you are mistaken, ignorant or gullible. Woe-betide anyone who believes otherwise.

I'm all for scientific pursuit and the quest for knowledge but don't tell me how I must interpret the facts or what those facts mean.

The FSM agrees completely and discourages all notions of testing and fact checking as counter productive in the quest for the scientific pursuit of knowledge.

[ramblingboy42]

Hey Ferret.....have you had private consultation with the FSM? I'm jealous if you have. To have such a relationship with a diety must be earth shattering. It's probably worthy of a special day of the year and holidays and gaiety all over the world. Oh wait on.....that's already happening for another false diety , isn't it?

[Homestar]

Hey Ferret.....have you had private consultation with the FSM? I'm jealous if you have. To have such a relationship with a diety must be earth shattering. It's probably worthy of a special day of the year and holidays and gaiety all over the world. Oh wait on.....that's already happening for another false diety , isn't it?

I'd be in it for another holiday for the FSM...:D. Just need to figure out a date in the calendar where it would fit best.:)

[Mick_Marsh]

International talk like a pirate day.
19th September.

[korg20000bc]

The FSM agrees completely and discourages all notions of testing and fact checking as counter productive in the quest for the scientific pursuit of knowledge.

Deliberate misrepresentation of my position. Im all for fact checking and testing.
But if someone has an experience that science can't or does not explain it rediculous to say - sorry, your experience is not valid because it is not scientifically varifiable.
Strange experiences should be scientifically investigated not out and out debunked because they're not understood.

[korg20000bc]

Hey Ferret.....have you had private consultation with the FSM? I'm jealous if you have. To have such a relationship with a diety must be earth shattering. It's probably worthy of a special day of the year and holidays and gaiety all over the world. Oh wait on.....that's already happening for another false diety , isn't it?
False diety? Like the Atkins Diet?

But, hey! I love that false deity! If even a fraction of what's written is true, there's great reasons for hope.

[benji]

There's a vast disparity between empirical evidence, and personal experience; and a probably even larger gap between the iconical scientist (empirical evidence is everything) to the loonies reserved for those American UFO chaser shows who married their cousin. The experiences in this thread are by decent honest folk (the type who make the wheels of Australia turn) are probably somewhere in the middle of that continuum.

Either end of that dichotomy will NEVER see eye to eye. But to cut it through the middle and look at what science really, and respecting the real life experiences that most definately did occur.

Science is just another way of explaining the world, though unfortunately not a very good way of knowing the world sometimes; if science proves that what Mum and I saw were some sort of meteorological naturally occuring event, thats cool - but it still scared the abcd out of us both - ie, the empirical evidence won't change the experience. It still happened - the memory is still tangible.

On a side note - science doesn't in any way disprove God. It's not like 'we don't need God now because we have science', or 'stupid humans finding a way to explain the unknown - we now know through science'. In my mind we are exploring creation through science. ..


And there ends my year 10 geography class.... lol.



Sent from my GT-I9305T using AULRO mobile app

[Chucaro]

I guess that is important to remember that:

1)Evidence it is not a proof therefore scientific theories are neither absolutely false nor absolutely true and not final because all scientific knowledge is tentative and provisional.
2)Proof is a term more appropriate to logic or mathematics their is not a "Scientific Proof"
A good example is the theory of evolution there is not proof of it, just a theory therefore it is provisional like the UFO theories supportive or not of it existence.
Regarding UFO there are "evidences" in our planet like the lines drawn into a high plateau in Peru’s Nazca desert that scientist can not explain how was possible to drawn them without the use of sophisticated measuring equipment.
Those here that going by the "scientifical formal methods" and are looking for evidences that UFOs exists I will ask them to come with the "educated scientific" evidence that dispute the theory that they been drawn by extraterrestrial beings UFOs :)

[ramblingboy42]

How's this one?

Jesus was an extra terrestrial.

The "Star of Bethlehem" was his spaceship glowing in the sky.

The 3 shepherds were actually guiding the spaceship in...their crooks were actually navigation aids.

The 3 wisemen were there to ensure that nothing went wrong with the "arranged" birth.

No earthling could live in a desert for 40 days.....he had help...lots of it.

Maybe the FSM was actually there to assist.....now it's making sense.

Looks like whole bloody lot is just another conspirancy theory.

[Zute]

Nope,don't believe. Not saying there isn't any life in other solar systems. But space is just to big to be visited by ETs.

[goingbush]

How's this one?

Jesus was an extra terrestrial.

The "Star of Bethlehem" was his spaceship glowing in the sky.

The 3 shepherds were actually guiding the spaceship in...their crooks were actually navigation aids.

The 3 wisemen were there to ensure that nothing went wrong with the "arranged" birth.

No earthling could live in a desert for 40 days.....he had help...lots of it.

Maybe the FSM was actually there to assist.....now it's making sense.

Looks like whole bloody lot is just another conspirancy theory.

Makes sense, except Jesus was halfbreed human / alien , explains how Mary had immaculate conception as she was an alien abductee and was artificially impregnated.

I dont have a copy of the giddeons handy for reference , In fact Ive never read the 'good book' but this is a pretty good yarn



As I looked, behold, a stormy wind came out of the north, and a great cloud, with brightness around it, and fire flashing forth continually, and in the midst of the fire, as it were gleaming metal.2 5 And from the midst of it came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance: they had a human likeness, 6 but each had four faces, and each of them had four wings. 7 Their legs were straight, and the soles of their feet were like the sole of a calf's foot. And they sparkled like burnished bronze. 8 Under their wings on their four sides they had human hands. yada yada



http://www.esvbible.org/Ezekiel+1/

[bob10]

"2 5 And from the midst of it came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance: they had a human likeness, 6 but each had four faces, and each of them had four wings. 7 Their legs were straight, and the soles of their feet were like the sole of a calf's foot. And they sparkled like burnished bronze. 8 Under their wings on their four sides they had human hands. "


The Barmy Army, stepping out of a TD5 Disco, Bob.

[Mr Rover]

I want to believe.

I came here for this.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/96.jpg

[Ferret]

... explains how Mary had immaculate conception as she was an alien abductee and was artificially impregnated.

Coincidently, research just published in the last few days in the British Medical Journal (http://www.bmj.com/press-releases/2013/12/17/us-researchers-ponder-modern-day-virgin-births) has found 'virgin birth' to be a little more common than believed. Of 7870 women interviewed over ~14 year period about 1 in 200 reported virgin births of which ~60% were male. :o

There are some obvious explanations of course but among the less obvious and therefore bound to be closer to the truth is that the rate of alien abduction might be on the increase.

[UncleHo]

This has been a interesting read so far, so I might add a little to it.
It has long time been a rumour that there is the wreckage of a UFO in the USA in an area "51" in the desert of New Mexico.

There could also be a % of fact in the hit movie "Close Encounters of the Third Kind"

I don't discount the possibility of intelligent life forms in space and that they have the capability of space travel,there have been reports of UFO's from crews as diverse as the Apollo space missions to scheduled jet liners.

Right through the Millennia there have been leaps in human knowledge,from pre-history right through to Einstein and beyond, has this been pre-planned?

So I will keep an open mind,just remember that the Aboriginies of Australia thought that Capt James Cook and crew with their white wigs were their Ancestors returning.


cheers

[korg20000bc]

This has been a interesting read so far, so I might add a little to it.
It has long time been a rumour that there is the wreckage of a UFO in the USA in an area "51" in the desert of New Mexico.

There could also be a % of fact in the hit movie "Close Encounters of the Third Kind"

I don't discount the possibility of intelligent life forms in space and that they have the capability of space travel,there have been reports of UFO's from crews as diverse as the Apollo space missions to scheduled jet liners.

Right through the Millennia there have been leaps in human knowledge,from pre-history right through to Einstein and beyond, has this been pre-planned?

So I will keep an open mind,just remember that the Aboriginies of Australia thought that Capt James Cook and crew with their white wigs were their Ancestors returning.


cheers

Thanks Uncle Ho.
Just to be accurate Area 51 is at Groom Lake in Nevada but Roswell is in New Mexico.

My opinion is that the "aliens from outer space" phenomena is just a modern relabeling of something that has been happening for as long as there has been humans.

[UncleHo]

Yeah! sorry korg20000bc :)
I got my US States mixed up.

[vnx205]

Regarding UFO there are "evidences" in our planet like the lines drawn into a high plateau in Peru’s Nazca desert that scientist can not explain how was possible to drawn them without the use of sophisticated measuring equipment.
Those here that going by the "scientifical formal methods" and are looking for evidences that UFOs exists I will ask them to come with the "educated scientific" evidence that dispute the theory that they been drawn by extraterrestrial beings UFOs :)

People continue to repeat a lot of things about the Nazca line that are simply not true.

They could easily be created by someone on the ground by someone using a couple of sticks and a piece of string.

In fact a replica has been made using that technique.

The details are here.
The Mysterious Nazca Lines (http://www.onagocag.com/nazca.html)

Like so many other "mysteries" and UFO stories, people prefer to believe the mysterious explanation. A great many of these so called "mysteries" have been explained quite satisfactorily, but people still repeat the claim that "no-one knows how it was done or how it happened so it must have been aliens".

EDIT

There is even some physical evidence to support the "Sticks and string" theory.
It is more likely that the Nazca people used simple surveying techniques in their work. Straight lines can be made easily for great distances with simple tools. Two wooden stakes placed as a straight line would be used to guide the placement of a third stake along the line. One person would sight along the first two stakes and instruct a second person in the placement of the new stake. This could be repeated as many times as needed to make an almost perfectly-straight line miles in length. Evidence that the line makers used this technique exists in the form of the remains of a few stakes found at the ends of some of the lines.
http://www.unmuseum.org/nazca.htm

[korg20000bc]

People continue to repeat a lot of things about the Nazca line that are simply not true.

They could easily be created by someone on the ground by someone using a couple of sticks and a piece of string.

In fact a replica has been made using that technique.

The details are here.
The Mysterious Nazca Lines (http://www.onagocag.com/nazca.html)

Like so many other "mysteries" and UFO stories, people prefer to believe the mysterious explanation. A great many of these so called "mysteries" have been explained quite satisfactorily, but people still repeat the claim that "no-one knows how it was done or how it happened so it must have been aliens".

Most of the episodes of "In Search of..." with Leonard Nimoy followed this pattern. "Could it have been... Aliens???"
In Search Of Colour Intro (1981) - YouTube

Bull**** or Not? - YouTube

[bee utey]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/20544212.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/87.jpg

http://files.myopera.com/Sanguinemoon/files/startedbyaliens.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQUl9zNlmjZif1y2poJt4bPxxzdthXw_ aYhNtq_9o6dInFoxjK6

[superquag]

Yes, 'Aliens' indeed... they're not native to Australia, so, from that viewpoint it is quite correct to describe them as 'aliens'.

Q.E.D.

[Chucaro]

Yes, 'Aliens' indeed... they're not native to Australia, so, from that viewpoint it is quite correct to describe them as 'aliens'.

Q.E.D.


= R.I.P. :)

[Chucaro]

People continue to repeat a lot of things about the Nazca line that are simply not true.

They could easily be created by someone on the ground by someone using a couple of sticks and a piece of string.

In fact a replica has been made using that technique.

.................................................. .................................]

True it is not the right word, the theory or test done with the sticks and strings does not prove nothing as the theory of pilots and astronauts and scientist does.
Come with a theory of what was the use for the inhabitants back then to drawn the lines and some one will come with another theory that is opposites to the first.

Remember what I have write "Evidence it is not a proof therefore scientific theories are neither absolutely false nor absolutely true and not final because all scientific knowledge is tentative and provisional.

Yep, I keep my open mind about this as many other theories :)

[isuzurover]

True it is not the right word, the theory or test done with the sticks and strings does not prove nothing as the theory of pilots and astronauts and scientist does.
Come with a theory of what was the use for the inhabitants back then to drawn the lines and some one will come with another theory that is opposites to the first.

Remember what I have write "Evidence it is not a proof therefore scientific theories are neither absolutely false nor absolutely true and not final because all scientific knowledge is tentative and provisional.

Yep, I keep my open mind about this as many other theories :)

And therein lies the difference. Science trains you to select the most logical/likely/plausible/probable option, rather than the one you would like to believe (because of the "I want to believe" principle).

I certainly prefer the most sensible option, rather than leaping to improbable and unlikely conclusions just because they make you feel warm and fuzzy.

As stated, many people confuse this flawed logic process with being "open minded". On the contrary, being open minded is being able to determine the most sensible option, given the best understanding of the facts available at the time.

[Ausfree]

Talking about sticks and strings by one of the above posters got me thinking about Stephen Hawking ( a brilliant scientist) and his "String Theory" on the origin of the Universe. Here is one of his speeches (rather lengthy) about the string theory and he also mentions "Worm Holes" where by you could travel through the Universe via a worm hole and arrive in a very short time rather than thousands of years if you are travelling at the speed of light in a normal dimensional universe.:D

Space and Time Warps - Stephen Hawking (http://www.hawking.org.uk/space-and-time-warps.html)

Maybe, just maybe our friendly aliens have discovered this method to move through the Universe to visit us, or are indeed humans from our own future who have discovered time travel. I am only speculating here.:D May as well throw this into the mix!!!!:D

[Sparksdisco]

And therein lies the difference. Science trains you to select the most logical/likely/plausible/probable option, rather than the one you would like to believe (because of the "I want to believe" principle).

I certainly prefer the most sensible option, rather than leaping to improbable and unlikely conclusions just because they make you feel warm and fuzzy.

As stated, many people confuse this flawed logic process with being "open minded". On the contrary, being open minded is being able to determine the most sensible option, given the best understanding of the facts available at the time.

It's the same fault finding electrical circuits or anything for that manner. it is generally a simple problem that causes the fault not something that is a complex hard brain melting problem. Although sometimes we like to think it is a complex fault just so we can justify the time spent in diagnosis of the fault. it's amazing how quickly you can convince yourself it is something more than what it is. and go of in a completely wrong tangent. A good fault finder is as exactly what you said being open minded. A lot of people trust others opinion instead of looking at the facts

[Chucaro]

It is not what a person with an opposite view "like to believe" it is what that individual think which of the two theories is the weaker of the two.
Accepting a theory is simply the best explanation for it among all available alternatives but it is not final, it is not prove it is open until it is a proven theorem which will be final (subject to possible errors that can occur)
That it is what I mean by open mind there is not a proven theorem and (in this case) it is open to people to choose with theory it is more strong or just plainly do not have an opinion on it (be open minded)
Science cannot say if UFO exists or not, it is not proven either waay

[bee utey]

I am so open minded I believe that Tim Minchin could become the next Pope. I assign a probability of about 1/7 134 000 000 to the word "could".:angel:

[mikehzz]

To me, putting scientific observation onto some sort of pedestal is the worst type of close mindedness. It's a temporary mirage ready to vapourize at the whim of new evidence. Prime example, we all know that Thor doesn't cause thunder and lightning right? It's electrostatic charge type crap between various atoms in the atmosphere. But what causes the cause adinfinitum? The root cause might well be Thor and you can't prove it isn't. Thor may be infinately small. No matter how much you know, that may be one of the infinite number of things you don't know. You might think this ridiculous but the logic is sound. There are a chain of causes trailing into infinity for every bit of reality. Holding the few you can see as definitive is a very narrow view indeed, but that's science for you.

[Mick_Marsh]

As I have said before.
"I have seen many things (objects), not on the ground (flying) that I have no idea what it is (unidentified)."
UFO's are a scientific fact. UFO's exist.

Science cannot say if UFO exists or not, it is not proven either waay
I think you mean alien spacecraft.

[Chucaro]

I am so open minded I believe that Tim Minchin could become the next Pope. I assign a probability of about 1/7 134 000 000 to the word "could".:angel:

Gee!! No you are not open minded,we did not know that you are an under cover scientific in AULRO with many papers that prove beyond any doubt that extraterrestrial intelligence does not exists.
You should contact your colleagues and Governments to stop investing billions in research, radio and astronomy equipment to see if there is life out there.
Tell to this people that you have a final and proven fact that there is nothing out there, further more publish your papers in AULRO to help the forum ;)
Meanwhile until you do not publish your papers I will keep be open mind, I do not like to assume ;)
Cheers Dr.

[bee utey]

Gee!! No you are not open minded,we did not know that you are an under cover scientific in AULRO with many papers that prove beyond any doubt that extraterrestrial intelligence does not exists.
You should contact your colleagues and Governments to stop investing billions in research, radio and astronomy equipment to see if there is life out there.
Tell to this people that you have a final and proven fact that there is nothing out there, further more publish your papers in AULRO to help the forum ;)
Meanwhile until you do not publish your papers I will keep be open mind, I do not like to assume ;)
Cheers Dr.
Dear Chucaro, I love your commentary and humanist values but I find your lack of ability to see nuance frustrating.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS 100% PROOF IN ANYTHING.

Aliens may indeed exist somewhere in the universe but the evidence for aliens on Earth is extremely tenuous, compared with the kind of evidence that underpins good scientific theories. That includes "evolution". Countless thousands of research papers underpin this important theory and "aliens" is supported by a small bunch of wishful thinkers.

Feel free to believe in as many aliens as you wish, but don't expect me to turn off my BS detector, just for you.:p

[bob10]

Some quotes from scientists [ real ones :p ] on UFO's, Bob


Scientists on UFOs - UFO Evidence (http://www.google.com.au/url'sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CEUQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ufoevidence.org%2Fdocuments%2 Fdoc1744.htm&ei=5bW-UrHPJ8qSkgWh5IDYBA&usg=AFQjCNGCfWR_LZBPbRcEd4C_lM0syZXsfg)

www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc1744.htm‎[/URL]

[URL="http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:q9DU5czv4IsJ:www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc1744.htm+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au"]Cached (https://www.google.com.au/#)
Similar (https://www.google.com.au/search?biw=1024&bih=643&q=related:www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc1744.htm+ufo+scientific+evidence&tbo=1&sa=X&ei=5bW-UrHPJ8qSkgWh5IDYBA&ved=0CEkQHzAB)





Quotes on the UFO phenomenon by various scientists.

[goingbush]

What I find interesting are the numerous Ancient models of space ships,
especially the 1000 year old Mayan space ship models

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

World Mysteries - Strange Artifacts, Ancient Flying Machines (http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_7.htm)

Ancient Space Vehicle re-make. - YouTube

[akula]

[/QOUTE]

The same mathematics that some people use to support the notion that there must be other intelligent life somewhere in the universe also demonstrates how unlikely it is that we would have been visited by aliens.

There is a world of difference between saying that there must be other life out there and saying that they have visited us. A mathematical argument that we are not alone is not an argument that we have had visitors.

Go through a similar exercise done by those who calculate the mathematical likelihood of extra-terrestial life to calculate the chances of us having come in contact with other life. Arguments about worm holes or time travel become irrelevant simply because the probability is so small.

[/QUOTE]

I would like to add that the probability that alien life would be any way, whether in terms of intellect or physiology, similar to human qualities would be exceedingly low. Earth inhabitants have evolved to very, very specific conditions (gravity, sunlight, atmosphere composition etc), and the odds that there is another system similar enough to create life even closely resembling what occurs on earth is very low.

This combined with the above quoted comments means that the very small probability that there is extraterrestrial life that we would able to recognise, let alone have contact with.

[Chucaro]

Dear Chucaro, I love your commentary and humanist values but I find your lack of ability to see nuance frustrating.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS 100% PROOF IN ANYTHING.

Aliens may indeed exist somewhere in the universe but the evidence for aliens on Earth is extremely tenuous, compared with the kind of evidence that underpins good scientific theories. That includes "evolution". Countless thousands of research papers underpin this important theory and "aliens" is supported by a small bunch of wishful thinkers.

Feel free to believe in as many aliens as you wish, but don't expect me to turn off my BS detector, just for you.:p
Did I said that I believe on them?
No, I said: Yep, I keep my open mind about this as many other theories which means I do not assume either way.
My last reply was to what I interpreted as a sarcastic comment which I replay with some touch of humor.
Reading your post quoted here looks like that we are very close to be "in the same page" when you said Aliens may indeed exist somewhere in the universe , you have an open mind about it :)
The only difference is that I am not assuming that "if" out there are aliens they do not have the technology to travel long distances in space just because we do not have the knowledge (yet)

PS: by the way, I will never bother to read histories of theories from wishful thinkers.

[Ferret]

What I find interesting are the numerous Ancient models of space ships,
especially the 1000 year old Mayan space ship models

Why do you (or the person responsible for the image) label it an ancient 'space ship'?

Because an object has a shape that resembles something your familiar with (a plane) how do you get from there to deciding it must be an object your very, very unfamiliar with - a 'space ship'.

There is an object on Mars that resembles the shape of a familiar squirrel. Does it follow that it should collect 'space nuts'?

[incisor]

Does it follow that it should collect 'space nuts'?

easy pick up here if it does......

[Sparksdisco]

Why do you (or the person responsible for the image) label it an ancient 'space ship'?

Because an object has a shape that resembles something your familiar with (a plane) how do you get from there to deciding it must be an object your very, very unfamiliar with - a 'space ship'.

There is an object on Mars that resembles the shape of a familiar squirrel. Does it follow that it should collect 'space nuts'?

No that's having a bit of logic about it.
if it is in a shape of a squirrel then it must be collecting the energy that's missing from gravity.

That's a better fit of your above model.

[Homestar]

What I find interesting are the numerous Ancient models of space ships,
especially the 1000 year old Mayan space ship models

http://www.popscreen.com/assets/thumbs/v/original/6924782U90_o.jpg

World Mysteries - Strange Artifacts, Ancient Flying Machines (http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_7.htm)

Ancient Space Vehicle re-make. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVPli_2-Qw4)

Um, that looks like a bird to me - pretty sure birds were around when the Mayans were...

[goingbush]

heres some more, (none of these look like birds to me)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/35.jpg

no bird on this planet (or insect) has wings on the bottom, or vertical stabilisers . ( All flying creatures have top mounted wings)

actually one of them looks more like an A4 Skyhawk than a bird

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

perhaps a Skyhawk was lost in the Bermuda Triangle and ended up in Mayan times ??

[Jeff]

Has anyone mentioned US military involvement? While everyone is thinking UFOs are from another planet, they can test all kind of supersonic aircraft and claim it wasn't them. Maybe I watch less tv now but during the Cold War there seemed to be more UFO sightings. Were they really from another planet? There is also a huge industry in selling bits and bobs to tourists, just like Loch Ness Monster, Bigfoot etc.

Jeff

:rocket:

[Homestar]

heres some more, (none of these look like birds to me)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/35.jpg

no bird on this planet (or insect) has wings on the bottom, or vertical stabilisers . ( All flying creatures have top mounted wings)

perhaps a Skyhawk was lost in the Bermuda Triangle and ended up in Mayan times ??


Sorry, they just look like ornate stylised birds and insects to me. If the birds were standing up facing you, with their wings outspread then the wings are on the correct side? I like the Bermuda Triangle idea a lot though...:D

[vnx205]

True it is not the right word, In this case, it is. the theory or test done with the sticks and strings does not prove nothing It proves that humans could have done it. That is all I had to prove to refute the claim that it couldn't be done by humans.as the theory of pilots and astronauts and scientist does.
Come with a theory of what was the use for the inhabitants back then to drawn the lines and some one will come with another theory that is opposites to the first.

Remember what I have write "Evidence it is not a proof therefore scientific theories are neither absolutely false nor absolutely true and not final because all scientific knowledge is tentative and provisional.

Yep, I keep my open mind about this as many other theories :)

I didn't claim that the lines were drawn using sticks and string, even though there is physical evidence to support the idea.

You had said, "Regarding UFO there are "evidences" in our planet like the lines drawn into a high plateau in Peru’s Nazca desert that scientist can not explain how was possible to drawn them without the use of sophisticated measuring equipment".

The part I was disputing is that scientists can not explain how was possible to draw them without the use of sophisticated measuring equipment. In fact it has been shown how they could have been drawn without sophisticated equipment and without being able to view it from the air.

Why they were drawn is a separate argument. There are quite credible suggestions about why they might have been drawn for people who didn't have access to aircraft, even though it needs an aerial view to full appreciate them. I will offer that suggestion in another post if anyone has difficulty imagining a reason earthbound people might have made such drawings.

People arguing for the existence of alien visitors and various supernatural phenomena rely very heavily on the argument, "It couldn't have been done by humans, so it must be alien in origin." Usually it is their only argument.

I wasn't offering proof that the lines were drawn in a particular way. I was offering conclusive proof however, that they could have been done with very simple tools. So the argument that there is no explanation of how humans could have done it is clearly false.

When people say, "It couldn't have been done by humans, so it must be alien in origin", generally what they should have said is, "I haven't bothered to read any of the credible explanations, so I will continue to repeat the claim that it must be alien", or maybe even, "I want to believe in alien visitors, so I am prepared to ignore any evidence that shows that it could easily have been accomplished by humans". Perhaps sometimes it is just a case of, "I don't understand the science behind it , so it must be alien".

So claiming that the Nazcar lines and a lot of other things could not have been done by humans is not true. Saying that there are ways humans could have done it is true.

[korg20000bc]

heres some more, (none of these look like birds to me)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/35.jpg

no bird on this planet (or insect) has wings on the bottom, or vertical stabilisers . ( All flying creatures have top mounted wings)

actually one of them looks more like an A4 Skyhawk than a bird

http://www.ejf.com/images/alf104.jpg

perhaps a Skyhawk was lost in the Bermuda Triangle and ended up in Mayan times ??
Either that or they're miniatures for the Starfleet Battles game. They kinda look Cardassian to me.

[MBZ460]

I like these quotes from the net:


If I made the trip to another star system and found intelligent life, I would spend the rest of my life there telling everybody about it and bragging to the native population. If aliens have been to Earth, they’ve been suspiciously cool about it.


beyond exploration, there aren’t any good reasons to leave your home solar system. The resources you’re likely to find are about the same as the resources you’d find in your home system (nearby stars tend to form in regions with similar chemical make ups), while the costs of getting there are amazingly high.

Stephen Hawking:

"It took a very long time, two and a half billion years, to go from single cells to multi-cell beings, which are a necessary precursor to intelligence. This is a good fraction of the total time available, before the Sun blows up. So it would be consistent with the hypothesis, that the probability for life to develop intelligence, is low. In this case, we might expect to find many other life forms in the galaxy, but we are unlikely to find intelligent life."


Meeting a more advanced civilization, at our present stage,' Hawking says "might be a bit like the original inhabitants of America meeting Columbus. I don't think they were better off for it."



The highly unlikely collision that produced our large moon prevented the earth from being a waterworld.5 It also ejected the majority of our primordial atmosphere, which prevented the earth from going through a runaway greenhouse effect similar to what happened to Venus, our sister planet. Finally, our Solar System is unique in that it has large gas giants located only in the outer regions. Other systems discovered have gas giants located either near their star or in both inner and outer regions of their planetary system. The presence of gas giants near the star would eject any rocky planets from orbit. The presence of gas giants in the outer region of planetary systems is absolutely necessary for the survival of advanced life forms. Without Jupiter, the number of catastrophic collisions that the earth would experience would be at least 10,000 times greater. So instead of suffering massive species extinction events every 100 million years, the earth would experience these events every 10,000 years.6 Only bacteria and other simple life forms would be able to survive this kind of bombardment - no advanced life could ever form in the vast majority of planetary systems. These problems indicate that there would be no more than 150 advanced civilizations within our galaxy - and, more likely, we are completely alone in our galaxy.

[Chucaro]

For those that firmly believe that the theories from science and the scientist involved in writing them here is a brief list of different scientist and authors who have studied the lines and come with different theories about origin, purpose and who made them.
Take your pick, credit or discredit what ever you like, papers or Universities behind them and base your opinion in the scientific most probable theory that you like.
As I said again and again I do not like to assume, I just observe and keep my open mind. :D
This is fun, it is amusing, so many experts, theories and so many followers :D
I just wonder how many people got grants and doctoral qualifications for that lines :angel:

The list:
Alan F. Alford , Robert Bast, Gilbert de Jong, Robin Edgar, Maria Reiche, Anthony Aveni, Georg Petersen, Simone Waisbard , . ProfGerald Hawkins, Jim Woodmann, Prof. Anthony Aveni, Michael Coe, Siegfried Waxmann , Prof. Frederico Kauffmann-Doig , Georg A. von Breunig , Markus Reindel, David Johnson, Wolf-Galicki, Hermann E. Bossi, Prof. Helmut Tributsch, Jiri Mruzek, Bray Warwick, Prof. Henri Stierlin, Dr. Zoltan Zelko, Evan Hadingham, Prof. Helaine Siverman, Prof. Dr. Aldon Mason, Albrecht Kottmann, William H. Isbell,

[MBZ460]

I must admit that I read a lot of the Douglas Adams fiction and that helped gound my view that one of the hardest things for humans to grasp is just how insignificant we are in the scheme of things.

Much of which has been proven over again in the non-fictional efforts in the study of physics and biology, particularly where is comes to probabilities, in the universe as we know it, including star travel and alien visitations.

Its pretty obvious really.

[CraigE]

I absolutely believe in UFO's. If you actually read what it stands for (Unidentified Flying Object) then you would have to, At no time is there any correlation to alien technology or aircraft. The term is for a flying object that cannot be immediately identified.
:wasntme:

[isuzurover]

For those that firmly believe that the theories from science and the scientist involved in writing them here is a brief list of different scientist and authors who have studied the lines and come with different theories about origin, purpose and who made them.
Take your pick, credit or discredit what ever you like, papers or Universities behind them and base your opinion in the scientific most probable theory that you like.
As I said again and again I do not like to assume, I just observe and keep my open mind. :D
This is fun, it is amusing, so many experts, theories and so many followers :D
I just wonder how many people got grants and doctoral qualifications for that lines :angel:

The list:
Alan F. Alford , Robert Bast, Gilbert de Jong, Robin Edgar, Maria Reiche, Anthony Aveni, Georg Petersen, Simone Waisbard , . ProfGerald Hawkins, Jim Woodmann, Prof. Anthony Aveni, Michael Coe, Siegfried Waxmann , Prof. Frederico Kauffmann-Doig , Georg A. von Breunig , Markus Reindel, David Johnson, Wolf-Galicki, Hermann E. Bossi, Prof. Helmut Tributsch, Jiri Mruzek, Bray Warwick, Prof. Henri Stierlin, Dr. Zoltan Zelko, Evan Hadingham, Prof. Helaine Siverman, Prof. Dr. Aldon Mason, Albrecht Kottmann, William H. Isbell,

Not sure what you are trying to say Arthur? You have lost me.

There have been many erroneous conclusions reached in science, but the scientific method works, so those errors will eventually be found and corrected.

A couple of cases in point - a nobel prize in physiology was once awarded for findings which have since been proven completely incorrect [the exact details escape me at present].
- Stephen Hawking was sure the Higgs Boson did not exist, however as soon as it was found in the LHC immediately stated he was wrong.

The scientific method is generally sound and means that the answer will eventually be reached.

As many of us on here have stated, [paraphrasing] we are 99.99999999999999999999999999 % sure that aliens are not zooming around our skies, but would be happy to be proven wrong if someone could supply serious evidence...

[Mick_Marsh]

I absolutely believe in UFO's. If you actually read what it stands for (Unidentified Flying Object) then you would have to, At no time is there any correlation to alien technology or aircraft. The term is for a flying object that cannot be immediately identified.
:wasntme:
I tried to tell them that quite some pages back but they're not interested.

[sheerluck]

..........As many of us on here have stated, [paraphrasing] we are 99.99999999999999999999999999 % sure that aliens are not zooming around our skies, but would be happy to be proven wrong if someone could supply serious evidence...

Spot on as far as I am concerned. The travelling ET exists in the minds of Hollywood and conspiracy theorists only. However, the probability of ET existing and living on their own planet is fair.

"We exist, therefore something else could"

[ramblingboy42]

Read James Randi's books.....they will ease your mind.....

[Chucaro]

Ben, it appears to me that some of the posters in this thread believe that what ever a scientist in the name of science said it is the answer to a phenomenon or problem until a new theory that disprove the first one come along.
Well, I do not agree with that position (of course there are exceptions but not in this subject)
I doubt that the posters in these thread are qualified or have the knowledge to credit or discredit many of the theories about the Nazca lines or have done work to disprove that theories.

You wrote:
And therein lies the difference. Science trains you to select the most logical/likely/plausible/probable option, rather than the one you would like to believe (because of the "I want to believe" principle).

I certainly prefer the most sensible option, rather than leaping to improbable and unlikely conclusions just because they make you feel warm and fuzzy.

As stated, many people confuse this flawed logic process with being "open minded". On the contrary, being open minded is being able to determine the most sensible option, given the best understanding of the facts available at the time.

Well Ben, I respect your legitimate view and preferences about this but I disagree, be open minded it is not to base a position in a theory that it is tentative and provisional IMO open minded it is a neutral position in a problem until a final proved solution has achieved.
It cannot be made statement of true or false (like have been made in this thread) based in theories that are neither absolutely false nor absolutely
true.
Have a definitive position in a subject like the one in discussion it is "warm and fuzzy" (using your words) based in the theories available.

I have never said that I believe in aliens, just said that I reserve my right to have an open mind by not having a position either way.
I raised the example of the lines because there are many theories about the subject and vnx205 replayed to me with one theory or work that disagree with the theory about the lines that I mentioned.
Well in response to his post I posted the name of several authors of theories about the lines that are legitimate as the one posted by him.
Which one is the correct one? well I am not in a position to select one, it will be an arrogant and uneducated guess in my part.
I hope that you can understand what I try to said.

[Chops]

I tried to tell them that quite some pages back but they're not interested.

Yep, X 2 even

The statement of being "Warm and Fuzzy", sorry I can't backtrack on my phone here we'll enough to say who initially said this statement, but you'll know who it was.
So, when alls said and done,, doesn't your opinion, which is from a science point of view, make you feel all warm and fuzzy??
Two different theories, from two different sources, gives each of us the same feeling. However, your presuming that our theory is wrong because of your so called educated ways. Yet you cannot prove categorically that we are wrong.
We on the other hand, realize we could be wrong, but we are quite willing to be proven wrong,, it's just,,, you can't,, at least not at this point in time.
Maybe in another century or two, when we've worked out how to travel more quickly and efficiently, we'll find out the truth. On that point, just think how far we have come with technology in the last 50 years. Is it not possible that in the next 50, we could find light speed technology to power us out of our solar system.
Just imagine then,, maybe, just maybe, someone, or some thing, from another planet is just 50 years ahead of us now.

And anyway, with all this negative attitude,, who'd want to stop by and say "Hello",, pfff

[vnx205]

I have mentioned some physical evidence that supports the idea that the Nazca lines are human in origin.

Where is the physical evidence to suggest that they are alien?

I might not have won in a knockout, but surely I am ahead on points. :p

[korg20000bc]

Yep, X 2 even

The statement of being "Warm and Fuzzy", sorry I can't backtrack on my phone here we'll enough to say who initially said this statement, but you'll know who it was.
So, when alls said and done,, doesn't your opinion, which is from a science point of view, make you feel all warm and fuzzy??
Two different theories, from two different sources, gives each of us the same feeling. However, your presuming that our theory is wrong because of your so called educated ways. Yet you cannot prove categorically that we are wrong.
We on the other hand, realize we could be wrong, but we are quite willing to be proven wrong,, it's just,,, you can't,, at least not at this point in time.
Maybe in another century or two, when we've worked out how to travel more quickly and efficiently, we'll find out the truth. On that point, just think how far we have come with technology in the last 50 years. Is it not possible that in the next 50, we could find light speed technology to power us out of our solar system.
Just imagine then,, maybe, just maybe, someone, or some thing, from another planet is just 50 years ahead of us now.

And anyway, with all this negative attitude,, who'd want to stop by and say "Hello",, pfff
All we need is to find some spice, develop some navigators and we'll be folding space with the best of them.

[Mr Rover]

... be open minded it is not to base a position in a theory that it is tentative and provisional IMO open minded it is a neutral position in a problem until a final proved solution has achieved.

I have never said that I believe in aliens, just said that I reserve my right to have an open mind by not having a position either way.


The Theory that Unicorns Don't Exist is provisional - the existence of Unicorns has never been disproved. Do you keep an open minded, neutral position about the existence of unicorns?

[Chucaro]

The Theory that Unicorns Don't Exist is provisional - the existence of Unicorns has never been disproved. Do you keep an open minded, neutral position about the existence of unicorns?

In your quote you forgot to include "Well, I do not agree with that position (of course there are exceptions but not in this subject) " ;)

[Mr Rover]

In your quote you forgot to include "Well, I do not agree with that position (of course there are exceptions but not in this subject) " ;)

Clearly, you do not keep an open minded, neutral position about the existence of Unicorns. This is because you understand that in the absence of physical evidence to support a claim, the logical default position on that claim is disbelief. For example, on the claims made by Scientology, my default position is disbelief. But if the Great Galactic Overlord Xenu appears in his mothership to enslave us all, my position would change to belief due to the availability of overwhelming physical evidence.

If you employ this method for thinking about unicorns, why do you treat the idea of alien visitations differently? I suspect the reason is because you want to believe. And when you want to believe something hard enough, you abandon your otherwise logical principles to support that belief.

[Chucaro]

Clearly, you do not keep an open minded, neutral position about the existence of Unicorns. This is because you understand that in the absence of physical evidence to support a claim, the logical default position on that claim is disbelief. For example, on the claims made by Scientology, my default position is disbelief. But if the Great Galactic Overlord Xenu appears in his mothership to enslave us all, my position would change to belief due to the availability of overwhelming physical evidence.

If you employ this method for thinking about unicorns, why do you treat the idea of alien visitations differently? I suspect the reason is because you want to believe. And when you want to believe something hard enough, you abandon your otherwise logical principles to support that belief.

There are two big differences between the example of the Unicorn and Astronomy discoveries.
First, in the case of the Unicorn ( and based in my limited reading) there are few possibilities or theories, one that perhaps a type of unicorn was as a result of a malformation in the horns of a deer which was been observed in was recent and an animal like this was confused with a horse.

In the case of possible life in other planets, well the possibility it is so strong to the point that the science that you trust and base your knowledge invest billions of dollars in looking for this intelligent life and planets were it can exists.

Literally every week new discoveries are found even close to our planet were moons of other planets have conditions for life.
Just because we do not have the knowledge on how long distances can traveled in space it does not mean that other kinds of intelligent life can do it.
People that assume that it is not possible and think that those that have open mind about the subject reminds me the ones that in sarcastic way were saying that Julio Verne was a fool or a dreamer.
You know the result of his dreams ;)
Well we are not dreaming now It have been done and we keep doing things that before we were thinking that was plain fiction.

[bob10]

Perhaps we should not sail across the ocean, we may fall off the edge, the World is flat, isn't it? At least keeping an open mind prevents such ideas being cemented in our thinking. I believe there should always be lateral thinkers willing to push the boundaries of our knowledge , as long as it doesn't become an obsession. After all, the natives & animals of Africa, Asia & Australia, were aliens to the European mind centuries ago. Who knows what will evolve in the centuries to come, if we last that long, Bob

[olbod]

For the first time in many years Santy visited my house a few days ago.
Just a brief five minute call and gone again.
I still believe.

I believe in Aliens and UFO's, its exciting to think about it.
I wont be conviced tho untill I can personally see it, throw a rock at it and go up and kick its tripod leg.

Even then....somebody might have to pinch me.

[ramblingboy42]

Along time ago when the earth was green,
There were more kind of animals than you'd ever seen.
They'd run around laughing while the world was being born,
But the loveliest of all was the unicorn.

[ramblingboy42]

If it wasn't for that stupid bloody impatient old Noah, we'd still have them.......

The Unicorn Song - The Irish Rovers - Lyrics , - YouTube

enjoy, Denno.

[bee utey]

I might not have won in a knockout, but surely I am ahead on points. :p
Y'see this encapsulates the human condition. Professional debunkers are poor but honest. Professional liars on the other hand, make billions. You may have the points but they have the moola. How do you make a blockbuster out of a story of sticks and string? You don't, you make it out of a story involving sex, beautiful aliens, special effects by the bucketload and a nutty plot and then people beliiieeeve you.:)

[sheerluck]

Y'see this encapsulates the human condition. Professional debunkers are poor but honest. Professional liars on the other hand, make billions. You may have the points but they have the moola. How do you make a blockbuster out of a story of sticks and string? You don't, you make it out of a story involving sex, beautiful aliens, special effects by the bucketload and a nutty plot and then people beliiieeeve you.:)

And then there's a follow up movie about the conspriracy by the gumm'nt to cover up knowledge of the beautiful aliens, and people beliiiieeeve that too. ;)

[Ausfree]

For the first time in many years Santy visited my house a few days ago.
Just a brief five minute call and gone again.
I still believe.

I believe in Aliens and UFO's, its exciting to think about it.
I wont be conviced tho untill I can personally see it, throw a rock at it and go up and kick its tripod leg.

Even then....somebody might have to pinch me.
Careful there, the aliens might zap you with their heat ray. I mean would you like your tripod leg kicked???:p (War of the Worlds music in the background).

[vnx205]

In the case of possible life in other planets, well the possibility it is so strong to the point that the science that you trust and base your knowledge invest billions of dollars in looking for this intelligent life and planets were it can exists.

The discussion is, or at least should be, about alien visitation, not alien existence.

You continue to argue as if they are the same thing.

They are not the same.

[Jeff]

...

[snowbound]

Whatever you all say, I recon that:

Its PROBE TIME! :wasntme:

[Homestar]

I tried to tell them that quite some pages back but they're not interested.

Yeah, but it's not half as much fun as everyone discussing all this alien guff. Speaking of alien, I haven't seen him chime in here yet...:D

[vnx205]

I raised the example of the lines because there are many theories about the subject and vnx205 replayed to me with one theory or work that disagree with the theory about the lines that I mentioned.
Well in response to his post I posted the name of several authors of theories about the lines that are legitimate as the one posted by him.
Which one is the correct one? well I am not in a position to select one, it will be an arrogant and uneducated guess in my part.
I hope that you can understand what I try to said.

You started the discussion about the line by saying that scientists could not explain how they could have been created.

That is rubbish. There are very simple methods that could have been used to create them.

Since it would have been easy for humans to create them, why does anyone need to assume that they were created by aliens?

I started working through your list of scientists who have studied the lines. None of the ones I read about offered a more plausible explanation about how they were created than the possibility that I offered.

Most of their theories seemed to be about why they were done, not how they were done.

As I have said before the only reason people seem to offer for assuming that they were alien in origin is that they can't work out how humans could have created them. Yet you don't need to be very clever to work out how people could have created them without sophisticated measuring instruments.

As I have established, humans could easily have created them. You claimed humans couldn't do it or at least you claimed that scientists couldn't explain how they were done, which amounts to the same thing.

There is a very high probability that the lines were of human origin. There is even physical evidence to support the notion. There is a very low probability that they are alien in origin and there is no evidence to suggest that they are alien.

Believing something that is extremely unlikely and is not supported by any evidence whatsoever may be described by some people as having an open mind. However, refusing to accept a simple, plausible explanation that is supported by evidence hardly constitutes having an open mind.

[Chops]

The discussion is, or at least should be, about alien visitation, not alien existence.

You continue to argue as if they are the same thing.

They are not the same.

I'm sorry, my uneducated brain, which I choose not to fill with maths/science, does'nt quite understand that,,
If Aliens dont exist,,, how can they visit? And who says that UFO's have to contain a life form of some description?

And, as an aside, the OP's (Bob) original question is about UFO's,, not "Aliens".
Or are we just assuming that the two go hand in hand,,??

[Ferret]

And, as an aside, the OP's (Bob) original question is about UFO's,, not "Aliens".

You didn't watch Bob's video linked in the original post, "Alien Contact"? I think Bob was inviting comment on the video when he asked "can we dismiss it as rubbish?".

[vnx205]

I'm sorry, my uneducated brain, which I choose not to fill with maths/science, does'nt quite understand that,,
If Aliens dont exist,,, how can they visit? And who says that UFO's have to contain a life form of some description?

And, as an aside, the OP's (Bob) original question is about UFO's,, not "Aliens".
Or are we just assuming that the two go hand in hand,,??

You are quite right that in order for aliens to visit, they first have to exist. However there seem to be some people who are assuming that all they have to establish in order to win a debate about whether aliens have visited, is that there is a mathematical probability of some sort of life elsewhere in the universe.

I have tried unsuccessfully a couple of times to convince people that you can't prove that aliens have visited just by proving that they might exist.

I'm not sure what everyone here is assuming, but among the general population, the term "UFO" has come to be synonymous with "alien spacecraft". As has been mentioned several times, strictly speaking, it just means something in the air that you can't be sure what it is. So in fact we have all seen a UFO.

Most of the discussion has been about alien spacecraft, so it would appear that a significant number of people here are assuming that UFOs and aliens go hand in hand. They probably realise that any unidentified flying object is a UFO, but are using the term the way it is most often used in the general population.

[ramblingboy42]

This is not a debate FFS. It is a family friendly forum. You do not have to win as you seem to want to do in every thread you become involved in. Go and become a politician if you want to try to enforce your will upon every one.

[Chucaro]

I had very robust debates with vnx205 and other members as well on which we have arrived to an agreement and in others we had agree to disagree :)
I am looking forward for more debates with him and others, the are amicable and with respect.
I understand vnx205 points of view (after all we are from the same vintage year :D )
I have said it before and I will continue to say it in the future, I am not good in expressing myself in this medium of communication, I cannot read faces and my "spanglish" it is not "rich"enough to said what I think or put my views across.
For that reason, many times I have come across as an arrogant, owner of the true, chip on the shoulder, etc, etc., which it is opposite to my personality, I am inquisitive and even at near 68 eager to learn :D
Rest assure that this debates are not going to jeopardize the spirit of camaraderie and friendship that we have in the forum.
Just in case that I do not have time to post again before midnight, my wish to all of you to have a wonderful 2014.
PS:
Take it easy with the drinks and drive safe ;)

[bob10]

The truth is out there, somewhere. And Humans being what we are, we will always be looking. Who knows, when we destroy this planet, survivors may need to travel to another, to start again. Perhaps that's how we started here, perhaps that's the natural evolution of our species........or....not :D


My last word comes from the high priests of humour....:


The Galaxy Song (Monty Python) - YouTube (http://youtu.be/Z2JU4gX6rg8)

[bee utey]

This is not a debate FFS. It is a family friendly forum. You do not have to win as you seem to want to do in every thread you become involved in. Go and become a politician if you want to try to enforce your will upon every one.

If this is a family friendly forum, what are you "ffs"ing for? Trying to shut down anyone with a dissenting opinion? Personally I think the exposing of pure BS is important, and its fun seeing the BS-ers squirm and shout.

Happy new year and watch out for alien visitors after you've gone to bed! I hear they're quite intimate these days... sweet dreams....:p

[ramblingboy42]

whats wrong with FFS? It means for flippant speakers.

So, tell me the who the BS-ers are that have been exposed here.....I have only seen a few posters mostly making light of the thread.

Nobody has won anything or outposted anybody else from what I've read here.

I have not anywhere tried to shut down any dissenting opinions, only questioned the necessity to win a "debate" at all costs.

I feel the more fun we can keep these threads the better they are.....after all the soapbox is dead and buried

[Mick_Marsh]

Ok guys. Those who are feeling their blood boil, walk away now.
This has been a very entertaining thread and it would be sorry to see it degenerate and/or disappear.
The last few posters, I strongly suggest you read what you have typed and edit accordingly.

Who'd have thought such a benign topic would get people so emotional.

[olbod]

Well seriously, there is at least one alien I believe and this should settle the question.
Firstly, the universe is not really so big, it's just that we are so small.

Now, at certain times of the day or night when we are absorbed in doing stuff to our Landy's we get them goose bumps because out of the corner of our eye we thought we almost saw a giant eye looking down at us !!!
Crikey what was that ? Looking hard over the shoulder only raises more bumps and shivers. But I'm pretty sure it wasn't imagination because it has happened more than once.
I reckon you have probably been there done that.
I wonder what is in store when the experiment ends.

PS: I dont drink.

[ramblingboy42]

The big eye opened.........

[olbod]

I forgot to mention that the UFO's that we think we see are probably something moving outside the dish.

[bee utey]

I feel the more fun we can keep these threads the better they are.....
Just for you...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/13.jpg
This will be my final words on the subject, promise!!! (Crossed tentacles)

[ramblingboy42]

it was just the FSM spreading his love over you.....do not be afraid.

[Ferret]

So, tell me the who the BS-ers are that have been exposed here.....I have only seen a few posters mostly making light of the thread.

The BS-ers are not necessarily the contributors to the thread. The video in the original post is part and parcel of Stephen Greer's 'disclosure' nonsense spread around the inter webs as a money making concern - one of the 'professional liars' referred to earlier.

Stephen Greer's websites are in the best traditions of conspiracy, free energy and snake oil. Donate if you like to fund his 'research' for the good of humanity.

The Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence (http://www.cseti.org/)

The Disclosure Project (http://www.disclosureproject.org/)

The Orion Project (http://www.theorionproject.org/en/)

The CE-5 Initiative (https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-CE-5-Initiative/115520735176762)

Just before Xmas I was at a function where the after dinner speaker was Peter Quinn (http://www.icrar.org/multimedia/interviews_with_researchers/professor_peter_quinn), director of ICRAR (International Centre for Radio Astronomy Research), Australia's co-ordinating body to the Square Kilometer Array project.

Question time invariably turned to 'aliens'. Among the astronomy community no evidence has yet been found for their existence in the space relatively close to earth let alone their visitations. Quinn, however, made this point and showed a diagram of improvements in telescopes over the centuries. Each new generation was a little better than the previous generation, maybe 2x - 5x better. However, in one leap the SKA will be 10,000x better than the previous generation and while the motivation for its construction has nothing to do with the search for alien life it will nonetheless be the best alien detector ever constructed.

By the way, Quinn's opinion on alien life existence - high probability, but where, the universe is very big. On alien visitations - low probability, what civilisation can afford to invest a significant fraction of its GDP to come to us?

[isuzurover]

... Peter Quinn, director of ICRAR (International Centre for Radio Astronomy Research), Australia's co-ordinating body to the Square Kilometer Array project.
...

OT,...

I was sitting next to Peter at the Pawsey Centre launch when Steve Irons MP announced ICRAR as the centre for radio Astrology research... I leant over and whispered "I didn't know you were doing astrology research these days..." Peter was not amused ...

[sheerluck]

......By the way, Quinn's opinion on alien life existence - high probability, but where, the universe is very big. On alien visitations - low probability, what civilisation can afford to invest a significant fraction of its GDP to come to us?

I echo that view, though for a slight different reason than that of cost. To paraphrase Douglas Adams, my view is that the universe is huge, mind bogglingly huge in fact. For a passing alien to come and find us, it would be akin to dropping a ball bearing from a cruising 747 and hitting, say, an egg sandwich.

[vnx205]

This is not a debate FFS. It is a family friendly forum. You do not have to win as you seem to want to do in every thread you become involved in. Go and become a politician if you want to try to enforce your will upon every one.

I was using the term "debate" in a very loose sense to mean some sort of discussion where there are differing views. You know, the sort of discussion that people often have around a campfire. The discussion might be about football teams, motor vehicles or brands of beer, but it usually doesn't change anyone's mind or even have any winners and losers, but it can be entertaining.

Until your post, I thought that was the way people were treating this topic. I have no illusions about my ability to change anyone's mind. However, I do derive a certain amount of satisfaction from presenting my side of the "debate" to the best of my ability.

We probably all have things that we like to do well and other things that are less important to us. Just as there are some mechanics who just can't let something out of the workshop until they are 100% satisfied with the job they have done, there are some of us (I hope I'm not the only one) who are reluctant to quit a discussion until we have explained our view as well as we can.

I don't really care what you believe, but I don't like to feel that I have done a half-hearted job of presenting my case. That is not the same as winning an argument and it certainly doesn't involve forcing my view on anyone else.

I think I had that desire knocked out of me a few years ago when someone posted this cartoon in response to a passionate defence I had been mounting for a particular view.
http://existimatio.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/someone-is-wrong-on-the-internet.jpg

I'm sorry you don't enjoy the free exchange of opinions the way so many of us do. :D

[VladTepes]

Though i the egg sandwich included lettuce the ball may bounce a bit....

[sheerluck]

.....Peter was not amused ...

Ahhh, that's a Capricorn for you....;)

[VladTepes]

Back to the OP.

All this conjecture is one thing but none of you lazy buggers have done any actual INVESTIGATION. Start your own damn space program and get going !

Here's how (http://www.youtube.com/user/bunningswarehouse?v=8x2NSbRCDy0)

[bob10]

Just a thought, if there are aliens, would they have a sense of humour, or is that a human condition only, I wonder. [ Sometimes I do think some people take themselves too seriously] Bob

[goingbush]

NASA seem to think intelligent extraterrestrial life may exist otherwise why would they have wasted money and payload on a golden record (message about life on Earth to aliens) on the Voyager spacecraft , which have now left our solar system.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/8.jpg


Voyager - The Interstellar Mission (http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/spacecraft/goldenrec.html)

Howdy, Strangers - NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory (http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=555)

[vnx205]

NASA seem to think intelligent extraterrestrial life may exist otherwise why would they have wasted money and payload on a golden record (message about life on Earth to aliens) on the Voyager spacecraft , which have now left our solar system.

Perhaps they spent all that money to send out Voyager because they knew that aliens haven't been here and were unlikely to come. They wouldn't come to us, so we had to go to them. :p

[vnx205]

The BS-ers are not necessarily the contributors to the thread. The video in the original post is part and parcel of Stephen Greer's 'disclosure' nonsense spread around the inter webs as a money making concern - one of the 'professional liars' referred to earlier.

Stephen Greer's websites are in the best traditions of conspiracy, free energy and snake oil. Donate if you like to fund his 'research' for the good of humanity.

The Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence (http://www.cseti.org/)

The Disclosure Project (http://www.disclosureproject.org/)

The Orion Project (http://www.theorionproject.org/en/)

The CE-5 Initiative (https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-CE-5-Initiative/115520735176762)



I must confess that I didn't look at all those links but I noticed one thing in common in the ones that I opened.

They seemed to rely heavily or even exclusively on "Eye Witness Accounts". That is in spite of the fact that it is widely (but not universally) recognised that eye witness accounts are about the least reliable form of evidence there is.

I suppose if you are going to perpetuate conspiracies, myths, half truths and fanciful notions then it works a lot better if you use the most worthless form of evidence available. :)

[goingbush]

Perhaps they spent all that money to send out Voyager because they knew that aliens haven't been here and were unlikely to come. They wouldn't come to us, so we had to go to them. :p

yes, hope it dosen't backfire , like the movie "Battleship"

Battleship Movie | Official Site for Battleship on Blu-ray | Own It NOW on Blu-ray, DVD and Digital Download | Watch The DVD Trailer, Photos & Pictures, Story, Plot & Previews (http://www.battleshipmovie.com)

im not into sci-fi but actually thought it was a good action movie, however unplausible, I probably wouldn't bother watching it twice tho.

[Homestar]

NASA seem to think intelligent extraterrestrial life may exist otherwise why would they have wasted money and payload on a golden record (message about life on Earth to aliens) on the Voyager spacecraft , which have now left our solar system.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/8.jpg


Voyager - The Interstellar Mission (http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/spacecraft/goldenrec.html)

Howdy, Strangers - NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory (http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=555)

I have no doubt that intelligent life exists out there somewhere, and eventually, that message may be seen by some of them. What I doubt is that they are buzzing around the American Bible Belt annoying the locals there...

[vnx205]

yes, hope it dosen't backfire , like the movie "Battleship"

Battleship Movie | Official Site for Battleship on Blu-ray | Own It NOW on Blu-ray, DVD and Digital Download | Watch The DVD Trailer, Photos & Pictures, Story, Plot & Previews (http://www.battleshipmovie.com)

im not into sci-fi but actually thought it was a good action movie, however unplausible, I probably wouldn't bother watching it twice tho.

Unless the aliens are defeated by something like the common cold, as in "The War of the Worlds", I wonder how a storyteller could come up with a plausible explanation of how we could defeat a species that had the technology to travel to Earth.

I enjoy a lot of science fiction, but I might give that one a miss.

[Mick_Marsh]

I must confess that I didn't look at all those links but I noticed one thing in common in the ones that I opened.

They seemed to rely heavily or even exclusively on "Eye Witness Accounts". That is in spite of the fact that it is widely (but not universally) recognised that eye witness accounts are about the least reliable form of evidence there is.

I suppose if you are going to perpetuate conspiracies, myths, half truths and fanciful notions then it works a lot better if you use the most worthless form of evidence available. :)
Yep. Thanks Ferret for posting up those gems.
I remember a fellow by the name of Erich von Däniken wrote some interesting books.
They made him a lot of money.

[Mick_Marsh]

yes, hope it dosen't backfire , like the movie "Battleship"

Battleship Movie | Official Site for Battleship on Blu-ray | Own It NOW on Blu-ray, DVD and Digital Download | Watch The DVD Trailer, Photos & Pictures, Story, Plot & Previews (http://www.battleshipmovie.com)

im not into sci-fi but actually thought it was a good action movie, however unplausible, I probably wouldn't bother watching it twice tho.
Thanks for the flick recommendation.
Let me recommend to you a couple of gems.
In a seasonal vain, "Santa Claus Conquers the Martians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia". That will give you a chuckle.
And for me, a personal favourite, "Forbidden Planet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia".

[superquag]

Battleship ? - You mean that silly Yankee chest-thumper....with all the patriotic music and lots of oily, slow-burning explosions...and the most important sub--plot being chicken burritos ????

Alien enslavement would be preferable to watching it a second time......:eek:

[Ausfree]

If you thought the movie "Battleship" was bad (actually I didn't mind it) try watching "Pacific Rim". What a terrible movie, the aliens actually live in the bottom of the ocean.

[superquag]

If you thought the movie "Battleship" was bad (actually I didn't mind it) try watching "Pacific Rim". What a terrible movie, the aliens actually live in the bottom of the ocean.

They also live in two bedrooms in our house, formerly inhabited by "sons" :eek:...

[Ausfree]

They also live in two bedrooms in our house, formerly inhabited by "sons" :eek:...

:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:Been there, done that!!!:D

[Chucaro]

For the believers and not believers, this news are from 07/01/14
I guess that for the authorities to close the air space something was there.
It would be interesting to see the air force report.
Just wonder if it is a new state of the art drone......
Quote:
According to police and municipal authorities in Bremen, the UFO flew over the city to the stadium, at a height of about 300 meters. This forced the closure of the airspace of the city, in the north for three hours. During this time, the unidentified object appeared several times in the detection airport systems.
"We do not know what it was, but there was something." With this statement the police spokesman told the press, adding more confusion to an incident that all German media spoke without exception.
UFO Causes German Airport To Divert Flights (http://newsfeed.time.com/2014/01/08/ufo-causes-german-airport-to-divert-flights/)

Ufo Über Bremen 06.01.2014

[Ausfree]

Well, it appears "something" was there and I'm sure an explanation will be found. Isn't it strange how all photo's of UFO's are fuzzy and unrecognizable when with our current photographic technology we can take clear pictures of aeroplanes flying many times higher than this object's reported 300 metres.:o

[Mick_Marsh]

Now, that to me is a real UFO. It's something that is flying and we don't know what it its.
My money is on a drone or something else military. Loved the explanation in the article.
Possible explanations include that it was a drone, a balloon-like aircraft or aliens attempting to turn Earth into a breeding colony.
Did you see the related article? Drones Causing UFO Sightings to Increase Worldwide | TIME.com (http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/11/04/ufo-sightings-drones/)

[bigdog]

You would have to be pretty naive to think that Earth is the only one planet out of billions that has inetllegent life on it. (seems to me there is none here)

I took a time lapse photo of the northern sky from JC Ruins earlier in the year and it shows a pair of UFO's travelling upward and parellel to each other

hope someone has a theory as to what they might be

More than likely man-made satellites......there are a few thousand man made objects circling the earth as we speak.....however that doesn't really explain why those traces are straight lines when you would expect some curvature in the picture. If they were travelling really fast then the lines should extend across the full frame of the photo. If they are travelling slowly then there should be curvature..........we are being watched ! :)

[ramblingboy42]

There has been a rush of sights basically in Melbourne and Darwin areas in the last weeks. Funny they are at opposite ends of the continent.
I have also noticed that when the sun spews out electromagnetic mass ejections in the direction of Earth , causing auroras at the poles that many of these sightings occur.
As a child I used to watch in wonder as fluffy balls of electromagnetic radiation would chase each other along the old telegraph lines running through the bush.
I didn't realise then what it was but had my mind put at rest by an old shearer who told me you always see things like that in the bush.

[jimr1]

I can remember a few years ago , It was after the testing of the Typhoon fighter , the test pilot said this is the most advanced jet fighter in the world . He also said the next generation will be unnamed , because they have become so complex even with the aid of all the on board computers a pilot can only do so much . So now this could be the future aircraft he was talking about . Another point worth mentioning this British have always be at the forefront of aircraft development , both civil and military , interesting times ahead !!..

[jimr1]

Sorry bob my last post should have been in answer to your POST THE FUTURE OF AIR WARFARE / UK SECRET WEAPON . I'm not sure how I drifted onto this post . Put It down to a senior moment . Jim :D

[bob10]

Sorry bob my last post should have been in answer to your POST THE FUTURE OF AIR WARFARE / UK SECRET WEAPON . I'm not sure how I drifted onto this post . Put It down to a senior moment . Jim :D


It's ok Jim, I'm not selfish mate, I'll share, Bob :p

[Chucaro]

Taranis drone: Britain's unmanned aircraft makes successful test flights over Woomera range (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-06/taranis-drone-uk-mod-bae-systems-woomera-south-australia/5242636)

And there are more than one, this is big, it is the MiG Skat UCAV

Mikoyan MiG Skat UCAV Russian answer to Northrop Grumman (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpJTckUfn_A)

[iClick]

here is a 100% crop of the part I'm talking about, they are only visible for 3 frames, one each side of this frame, only prob I have with them being part of a meteor shower is they are falling upwards ??

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/994.jpg

they were taken Tues 2 July 2013 looking north, 7.54pm


Those sir, appear to be iridium flares (http://epod.usra.edu/blog/2005/11/dueling-iridium-flares.html) You were very fortunate to observe two parallel satelites that evening

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/995.jpg



what is that website where I can punch in location co-ords and date to see if this matches ??
How to predict and observe Iridium flares (http://www.wikihow.com/Find-an-Iridium-Flare)

More images of Iridium flares: here (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=iridium+flares&sa=X&espv=210&es_sm=91&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ei=OEPzUvndPMTllAXnnoGIDQ&ved=0CDsQsAQ&biw=1664&bih=1382)

[bob10]

Military or.....? Bob


Strange 'S'-shaped radar phenomenon appears off WA coast - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-12/wierd-s-in-the-sky/5255808)

[Ferret]

It's the Rainbow Serpent

[Homestar]

Interference or a reflection off the ocean. Worked at several of the BOMs Doppler radars and talked at length to the techs that set them up. Not everything they 'see' is actually out there.

[jakeslouw]

I know we could have a lot of fun with this, but, seriously, anyone actually seen something out of the ordinary. There are a lot of reports, from the land of the conspiracy theory, the USA , which, being a sceptic, I find difficult to believe. But, that does not mean they are not out there. Bob
Now this is a lecture from the former Defence Minister Of Canada. We can dismiss it as rubbish, or not, but either way, what is going on over there, that there are so many people who believe this.




Alien Contact - Canadian Defence Minister - Disclosure 2014 ? - YouTube (http://youtu.be/2xINSwvNx1A)


Strangely we see less weird video footage now that everybody and their granny has HD cameras.

I would have expected more sightings.

Methinks a lot of previous sightings were just rubbish photography.............