Builders advice required - extension.

[Homestar]

At some stage in the future, I want to put an extra room on my house - no biggy, I have worked with Builders heaps, and can do all the work myself. What I don't know and haven't done before is work out what I need to keep everything legal and the Council happy.

Are there any Builders in my area - Sunbury, Vic that would want to look over what I want and advise me on a few things? I'm starting to sketch up a few things now. There are no easements on the block so no need to worry about those sort of things, more like what I can get away with and still keep it legal. I can slap up something that would do the job, look good and be structurally sound, but that's all for nothing if I miss something basic in the regulations.

I don't want to go to the expense of tying in the roof with the existing one - I would like to do a skillion roof if possible - I think I have the height required to get away with this, and likewise I don't want to pour a slab, but use stumps and bearers for the floor - all things I can do easily myself.

This will be a long term budget build as funds become available, I will be doing all the work myself apart from the Plumbing, but a mate will be sorting that for me, so I want to keep the structure as basic as possible and still meet required standards.

Ideally I would like to pay for the consult by way of Electrical services paid in kind, either of the 240 volt variety (I'm a fully quallifed sparky with contractors licence) or assistance with any Land Rover wiring they may need. Just remember I'm old and fat and have a dodgy knee, so climbing through roofs and under floors is not something I do anymore...:D

Any advise anyone wants to pitch in with here will also be greatly appreciated.

Cheers - Gav.

[uninformed]

The other option is to speak to a private certifier. Rarely these days do we deal directly with council. Yes things still need to meet their regs and be put through them. The certifiers are basicly pros that do that for a living. They are clued up on all the basic, latest rules etc. You could go owner builder also with one of these.

[uninformed]

Things either council or certifiers will be looking at in your situation:

Site coverage ( amount of under roof area vs land area)
Proximity to boundry (how close)
Height of new addition( both max and gutter line)
Termite mitigation (mechanical barriers, visual, treated timber etc)
Structural requirements (footings, loadbearing, bracing, tie down)
Electrical
Plumbing

[Homestar]

Thanks - so to clarify that, if I was an owner builder, and I employed the services of a private certifier, then they could guide me, and when the time came issue the certificate if occupancy?

They would deal with the council guff and I just have to worry about keeping the one person happy?

[Homestar]

Things either council or certifiers will be looking at in your situation:

Site coverage ( amount of under roof area vs land area) Not an issue - the house was barely big enough to meet minimum requirements when I built it.
Proximity to boundry (how close)Plenty of room there too - my back yard is big and I wouldn't get within 3 metres to the back fence, and miles from either side - the houses both sides of me go further back than I'm planning
Height of new addition( both max and gutter line) One of the first things I need to know.
Termite mitigation (mechanical barriers, visual, treated timber etc)I have the original document about this when we built, so know the minimum requirements here - unless they change over time???
Structural requirements (footings, loadbearing, bracing, tie down) These are my biggest concerns - and what I need to know about the most.
Electrical Me - Easy:)
Plumbing My mate - Easy:)

...

[uninformed]

Thanks - so to clarify that, if I was an owner builder, and I employed the services of a private certifier, then they could guide me, and when the time came issue the certificate if occupancy?

They would deal with the council guff and I just have to worry about keeping the one person happy?

Id say so, but remember im in QLD and you are in Vic. Could be some differences knowing this silly bloody country :D. As owner builder you would still have to apply for that licence. Not sure what that entails? You will still need building insurance, as a builder would have to have on the job, which you would be paying for anyway.

I would google or yellow pages some local certifiers in your area and give a call. get the whats what from the horses mouth.

Regarding timber, generally the timber yard should be able to run the numbers on what sizing you need for each memeber.

Bearers for example: Single span or continous? span? floor joist spacing, floor type, floor size (length x width) wall constrcution? cladding (internal and external) roof design? roof construction? roof covering? ceiling lining? They will ask most of those and punch the numbers into the computer. They should be able to give you options from HWD, treated pine and engineered timbers. Or you could go steel ( that would be a structural engineer and you would pay for that)

[uninformed]

Here is a quick example: I built a big outdoor entertaining area for a mate, attached to his existing house. I asked if he wanted it certified/through council? he said nope, he would do it down the track. I made sure all my work was up to the current code. Not long into it (framing roof) the neighbours dobbed him in and the council sent him a letter saying "err, what you doing then son" He hired a private certifier. Things he required to meet needs:

Site survey: this to provide a true block size and location of boundaries, along with the size and location of existing house and new entertaining/roof area.

Draftsman: to draw up basic plans of site, house and new entertaining/roof area, in plan and elevation.

Engineer: to go through all new work done (lucky I had taken photos of all my work and could prove things like reo in piers, tie down, bracing etc).

The only issue he has was his site coverage. All work was approved and up to scratch, he ended up having to get the "town planner to look over and approve because of his site coverage (he was on a small block)

[Ralph1Malph]

I am a member here:
Renovate Forums - Home (http://www.renovateforum.com)

Same as us LR nutters but they be builder/renovator nutters!
Helpful bunch of chappies too.

Ralph

[Homestar]

I am a member here:
Renovate Forums - Home (http://www.renovateforum.com)

Same as us LR nutters but they be builder/renovator nutters!
Helpful bunch of chappies too.

Ralph

Great site - thanks, I've signed up, and there is plenty of reading to be done.:)

[sheerluck]

I'm a member there too, from when we were looking at buying a plot and self managing a build on it. As you say Gav, huge amount of info on there.

[solmanic]

OR you could just ring an Architect and they will do it ALL for you. Contact the Vic chapter if the AIA and get some names in your area. Ring around and find someone you get on with and who LISTENS (we don't all do that one properly). Negotiate a fee for what extent of service you need, and off you go.

I know for my clients, even those requesting a limited service for a reduced fee, I will always help walk them through the process of design, certification and construction and attend to any queries regardless of whether or not they are actually paying me for every minute of my time.

[Homestar]

OR you could just ring an Architect and they will do it ALL for you. Contact the Vic chapter if the AIA and get some names in your area. Ring around and find someone you get on with and who LISTENS (we don't all do that one properly). Negotiate a fee for what extent of service you need, and off you go.

I know for my clients, even those requesting a limited service for a reduced fee, I will always help walk them through the process of design, certification and construction and attend to any queries regardless of whether or not they are actually paying me for every minute of my time.

Thanks, and as much as I would like to do that, I don't have the money for it. I need to keep the paid outside help to a minimum if I'm ever going to get it done. It's only a 4 x 4 metre room with 2 walls already existing from the house. Building wise it's easy, I just need advice on the cheapest way to get it legal.:)

Sorry if it offends, but I doubt an Architect is the cheapest way to do that. Correct me if I'm wrong - and I'm happy for you to give me an indicative cost.

Cheers.:)

[SLOWBOAT]

Just a word of advice. You cannot back date a building permit once you have started, so if you start without a permit it doesn't matter how many photos etc. you take it will not help you obtain a permit retrospectively. (it is illegal and they will lose their license)
If you take your architectural plans, soil report, engineering and specifications to a private building surveyor they will only do the inspections as required on the permit, they will not step you through the build as you are supposed to be competent to do this. As owner builder you are required to apply to the building commission with a copy of title, proposed plans etc. and your completed application form with the appropriate fee. They will then issue you with an permit to build your addition as an owner builder.
Be aware a building permit is only valid for 2 years from the issue date and must be commenced within 12 months of the issue date to become valid otherwise the permit will lapse after the 12 months and you will have do the process and fees again.
Just remember when you apply for the final CofO. you will have to supply the certificates for the plumber (includes the roof) and electrician.
P.S. check the planning scheme for your site as there may be other restrictions you need to take into consideration.
P.P.S. if your addition is more than 25% of the existing residence you will also require a 6 star energy rating report which will be from $350 to $500 depending on who you use.
Hope this helps in your planning for the build.

[uninformed]

SlowBoat, I guess Vic is different to Qld. That is exactly what my mate did and all above board. But thats why I said for Gav to make sure as there is always differences from state to state.

Gav, Slowboat has covered it very well. Here, we call the certs from each trade "form 16s" You need these from every trade (waterproofing is a trade)

As for the architect idea. They may be able to "organize" it but will not do all the paper work themselves, there fore will be engaging others like certifiers etc and will charge you accordingly.

[solmanic]

Fair point. Yes, an Architect will cost you, but that's why I suggested contacting the local chapter of the Australian Institute of Architects as they may be able to point you in the direction of a small, sole practicioner who is willing to negotiate a lump sum fee for just what you need. If you already have to pay to get it drawn up, then a little extra and you will actually get some assistance with the design and approvals.

Fees vary depending on the size & complexity of a job, and on something as small as what you're doing it would be a nominal fee just to cover the estimated hours on the job. Whilst many Architects now charge for first visits, there are still many who will give you an hour or so inititial consultation for free. You may at least get some heads-up advice on pitfalls. You would be surprised how many times I have attended these types of tyre-kicker meetings only to find that the client is completely missing a golden design opportunity that they otherwise would have no idea about. Also there are times when I have met with potential clients who are proposing to do something flat out illegal and have no idea (building on sites with vegetation protection orders, heritage restrictions and so forth).

Uninformed is correct in saying that Architect's don't DO it all, but they do organise it all. And yes, the Architect's fee is then placed on top of the other, compulsory engineering & certification fees. But as far as doing the necessary paperwork, about the only paperwork my clients have to do is signing a letter authorising me to act on their behalf with the council and certifier.

It's a lot like lawyers. Yes, if you've got the time to do your own research you can self-represent, but you might find yourself in a huge mess. And I guarantee, all the dodgy builder stories on ACA & Today Tonight are people who just went straight to a builder with no professional assistance.

I'm just sorry I'm to far away from you to help out more meaningfully.

[uninformed]

...It's a lot like lawyers. Yes, if you've got the time to do your own research you can self-represent, but you might find yourself in a huge mess. And I guarantee, all the dodgy builder stories on ACA & Today Tonight are people who just went straight to a DODGY builder with no professional assistance.

I'm just sorry I'm to far away from you to help out more meaningfully.

Fixed it for you, ;)

[amtravic1]

From a planning point of view. Decide what you want and get plans drawn. You will need a soil test to work out the depth needed for stumps etc. I assume as you are doing it all yourself it is a lightweight construction such as a metal roof and weatherboards or similar. Get the soil test done before the plans are drawn and have the sub floor design done to suit the outcome of the soil test.
If the building is not close to a boundary then the height should not be a problem.
You will also need to take out warranty insurance as an owner builder and the plumber will have to insure his work as well. I am a registered builder but have not done any new work for quite a few years as I prefer to fix other peoples stuff ups. Work with a private building surveyor. The ones I have worked with in the past have all been really good however they have been in the eastern suburbs of Melbourne.

[clive22]

Hi

If you thinking of doing this yourself as an owner builder you'll need a few things to progress the project to site commencement

Firstly for a suspended conventional stump bearer timber floor with a skill ion roof the go to book is the timber framing manual As1684 it's been around in one form or another for 20 years and bar services (plumb,elect.) describes and specifies every component in one way or another.
Eg stumps, bearers, joists, studs, rafters, joists, blocking and how to put them together.
You get the doc. from standards Australia
If you subscribe to this you should avoid engaging an engineer as it is deemed to comply with the Building Code

A good draftmen will be needed to draw the plans ready for certifications. This will all you,ll need for an extension. It,s their job not the certifier to prepare compliant plans the certifier they only stamp them when there satisfied.

Do your own homework source your title, do a council search for an old plans docs held. They often have soil reports, re-establishment survey, level surveys, existing site plans.

Clive

[Homestar]

Thanks guys, I have all the original plans for the house and the soil report - will this soil report still be valid for the extension? The report is 10 years old now.

Any idea what sort of money I'm up for to get a Draftsman to do the plans for me? I know this is one thing I can't dodge paying for.:)

Will they take my half assed drawings and the original house drawings and make something understandable from them that will pass muster for the permit?

[amtravic1]

if you have the house plans, soil report and a rough drawing of what you want a decent set of plans will cost between $600 and $1500 depending on the complexity and engineers report if required.