Treated sewage on ovals

[LandyAndy]

Hi People.
Any of you people live close to areas where treated sewage is used to reticulate ovals etc?????
What is the smell like????
The reason I ask,we had our footy oval changed over to treated waste water 4 weeks or so ago.We live around 1km away,on still nites the stench is overpowering,a mix of sulpur/chlorine.Its a brand new plant,all done via Watercorp,smell only seems to be bad on still nites after a heatwave.We just had a week of 35 to 40 degC and it stank last nite.
I saw our CEO today,warned him that there will be complaints.
Andrew

[Homestar]

No smell from the water used here in Sunbury on the ovals, or the golf course - all use solely recycled water from the nearby treatment plant. The golf course my Mum plays also uses 100% recycled water for their irrigation - no smell there either. Sounds like there is something different or wrong with yours...

Remember these plants produce AAA grade water using reverse osmosis - on a lot of these plants, the water is technically drinkable, but is not allowed to be, so not sure what is up with yours.

[Mick_Marsh]

I have worked at SEPP and Weribee Farm. The worst smell they get is from 115E Lagoon is that of a field of cabbages.
I suspect they are using raw sewage if it smells so bad. Either that or the sewerage treatment plant is not working properly.

[LandyAndy]

No reverse osmoisis here Babs.There are several treatment ponds,the final product is then treated with chlorine,travels to a storage tank which is pumped onto the oval.The treated effulent is only allowed to remain in the tank for 12 hours.
As I say,brand new system,it may be teething issues.Didnt smell like that when I flushed it down the ****er!!!!!
Andrew

[Homestar]

That sounds a bit dodgey. Not allowed anything like that over here. I have commissioned gensets at around a dozen sites in Vic and got to know a bit about how they build them - all RO over here. They are being built to produce drinkable water should the laws ever change allowing this. Then they just need to runa pipe (or in some cases open a valve) and let the treated water into the drinking supply.

It won't happen anytime soon, but one day it will.

I would be complaining myself if they are using a system like that.

[LandyAndy]

A google finds the environmental approval.
http://www.google.com.au/url'sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&ved=0CEIQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.der.wa.gov.au%2Four-work%2Flicences-and-works-approvals%2Fcurrent-licences%2Fitem%2Fdownload%2F1650_8583261c837ca8d2 dcf21e5979a01f28&ei=PYvCUtDoD8XVkwXLrYHgCA&usg=AFQjCNHklDBBsUtdliklCkrQs0_QWrnZhg
Andrew

[Homestar]

Looking at how they have to monitor it, it shows they only need to take a weekly test of the treated water to meet the standards in table 4. That shows a maximum ecoli level of less than 10,000 cfu per 100ml. The maximum allowable for drinking water, food - anything that goes near your mouth is 0. Personally I wouldn't want to use the ground that has this spread all over it. With weekly testing, there is nothing really stopping them pumping raw sewage apart from when they test it - I'm sure that wouldn't happen, but you can see my point - who knows what is really going on if it is not constantly monitored or every batch is monitored.

[87County]

A google finds the environmental approval.
http://www.google.com.au/url'sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&ved=0CEIQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.der.wa.gov.au%2Four-work%2Flicences-and-works-approvals%2Fcurrent-licences%2Fitem%2Fdownload%2F1650_8583261c837ca8d2 dcf21e5979a01f28&ei=PYvCUtDoD8XVkwXLrYHgCA&usg=AFQjCNHklDBBsUtdliklCkrQs0_QWrnZhg
Andrew


Thanks for posting the link Andrew - from your description and the content of the approval that you linked to, the operator (the Council?) may be contravening the licence.

Did the person that prepared the risk assessment understand the project and does the operator have the requisite skills to operate the sytem correctly?

I would be getting onto the EPA without delay and if you have a tame solicitor, talk to him as well.

I gather that you are employed the Council and obviously you need to take care not to jeopardise your job, but nobody should have to put up with that kind of pollution.

Maybe get one of the councillers around while it's bad to have a sniff.

There's one of these systems operating in the Moonbi/Kootigal area (NSW) with none of the issues you are describing.

[Mick_Marsh]

That sounds a bit dodgey. Not allowed anything like that over here. I have commissioned gensets at around a dozen sites in Vic and got to know a bit about how they build them - all RO over here. They are being built to produce drinkable water should the laws ever change allowing this. Then they just need to runa pipe (or in some cases open a valve) and let the treated water into the drinking supply.

It won't happen anytime soon, but one day it will.

I would be complaining myself if they are using a system like that.
I was surveyed a couple of weeks ago as to whether I would agree to recycled water being added to our drinking water,
If rain water is not suitable for drinking (according to the local council), what makes them think treated sewerage is suitable for drinking?

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I was surveyed a couple of weeks ago as to whether I would agree to recycled water being added to our drinking water,
If rain water is not suitable for drinking (according to the local council), what makes them think treated sewerage is suitable for drinking?Because the local council needs everyone to pay for the recycling plant, rather than welching buy using free sky water. ;) (The public health problems of tank water are: mosquitoes, paracytes and lack of flurodation. All of which can be overcome, filtration systems, mosquito proof covers on the tank and using a fluroide toothpaste for the kids.)

We have an enviro septic system that waters the pasture, the water is has no odour. If the water on the oval smells, then there is a problem with the plant or the bacteria in the system or overloaded by too much raw sewage entering the plant for its capacity.

[landyadrian]

Hey Landy Andy,

Im managinging the change over to reticulated water at our colledge, we have three ovals and many lawns. with our 42c tempratures today hope we dont have the same trouble. I will let you know. until then have a good new year. its 43 here tomorrow.

[Mick_Marsh]

With the local sewerage treatment plant, the treated water is sold to the nearby farmers.
Friends had a nearby property and, during the drought, tried to get some of that water. They couldn't because it is in such high demand for crops.
They probably think they can charge more if they feed it to people.

[bobslandies]

And these are the council merchant bankers who carry on ad nauseum about the occasional dog dropping on their ovals! You would need all the dogs in the community to create what you have described.

Don't let your kids near the fields Andy.

Bob

[Homestar]

I don't see what the big deal is in this country with everyone being paranoid about recycled water being added to the drinking water. Has anyone here ever visited a major city in Europe? Most cities over there are the same, but let's take London as an example. Who here has been to London and drunk the water out of the tap?

If you have then you've drunk recycled water. The water that comes out the tap comes from the Thames - that makes the Yarra look like spring water, it is treated, then used by everyone. The sewage is treated by RO and pumped back into the Thames where it all starts again.

The water that from the RO plants I've worked on produce AAA quality water and have more safety systems in them to prevent contamination than you can imagine. The water is clean and safe to drink - simple. You drink the water out your Tap now that fish crap in...:D

We are the driest continent on earth and we have limited and dwindling fresh water supplies. I think it makes much more sense than building desal plants - the recycled water is much cheaper to turn into fresh water than sea water is.

I don't see what all the fuss is about...

[vnx205]

Recycled water has been used on the Batemans Bay and Moruya golf courses for over a decade and on the Tuross Head Golf course for a few years.

I have never heard of a problem or of complaints.

I am fairly sure it is also used on Moruya sporting fields including the High School oval.

If it is done properly, it is quite safe.

[Homestar]

Recycled water has been used on the Batemans Bay and Moruya golf courses for over a decade and on the Tuross Head Golf course for a few years.

I have never heard of a problem or of complaints.

I am fairly sure it is also used on Moruya sporting fields including the High School oval.

If it is done properly, it is quite safe.

Correct, but that doesn't sound like what they are doing over Andys way unfortunately.

[bobslandies]

Recycled water has been used on the Batemans Bay and Moruya golf courses for over a decade and on the Tuross Head Golf course for a few years.

I have never heard of a problem or of complaints.

I am fairly sure it is also used on Moruya sporting fields including the High School oval.

If it is done properly, it is quite safe.

Absolutely, but Andy's example does not sound like it is being done properly. (Beat me to it)

Bob

[Mick_Marsh]

I don't see what the big deal is in this country with everyone being paranoid about recycled water being added to the drinking water. Has anyone here ever visited a major city in Europe? Most cities over there are the same, but let's take London as an example. Who here has been to London and drunk the water out of the tap?

If you have then you've drunk recycled water. The water that comes out the tap comes from the Thames - that makes the Yarra look like spring water, it is treated, then used by everyone. The sewage is treated by RO and pumped back into the Thames where it all starts again.

The water that from the RO plants I've worked on produce AAA quality water and have more safety systems in them to prevent contamination than you can imagine. The water is clean and safe to drink - simple. You drink the water out your Tap now that fish crap in...:D

We are the driest continent on earth and we have limited and dwindling fresh water supplies. I think it makes much more sense than building desal plants - the recycled water is much cheaper to turn into fresh water than sea water is.

I don't see what all the fuss is about...
I don't have a problem with flushing my loo or watering the garden with recycled water. We have large water reserves in Victoria. If we hooked houses up to the current water supply and the loos and garden up to a recycled water reticulation system (many new houses already are connected to a rainwater system) (some new estates have a potable water reticulation system for the garden), we would not have to drink recycled or desalinated water.

[Mick_Marsh]

Recycled water has been used on the Batemans Bay and Moruya golf courses for over a decade and on the Tuross Head Golf course for a few years.

I have never heard of a problem or of complaints.

I am fairly sure it is also used on Moruya sporting fields including the High School oval.

If it is done properly, it is quite safe.
They've used it on the golf course at SEPP since the golf course was built back in the mid seventies. They built the golf course to help get rid of the water before the outfall was constructed at Cape Schanck.

[Homestar]

I don't have a problem with flushing my loo or watering the garden with recycled water. We have large water reserves in Victoria. If we hooked houses up to the current water supply and the loos and garden up to a recycled water reticulation system (many new houses already are connected to a rainwater system) (some new estates have a potable water reticulation system for the garden), we would not have to drink recycled or desalinated water.

I don't agree we have large water reserves here, we have come close to getting critical before, and it will happen again, but now we have an oversized white elephant of a desal plant to help, but agree with the rest.

I believe all new estates should be connected to recycled water, but that leaves most still not connected or any chance of it ever happening - maybe they should run some pipes at the same time as the fibre optic for the NBN...:angel::wasntme:

Still, if it ever happens - and it probably won't in my lifetime, I would have no issue with the recycled water being added to our drinking supply. Just my opinion of course.:)

[Mick_Marsh]

we have come close to getting critical before, and it will happen again
That's because we mismanage the many large water resources we have.

[Homestar]

Yeah, that's a whole other conversation right there...

Well, what do you know - I made it until midnight - happy new year.:)

[sheerluck]

I don't see what the big deal is in this country with everyone being paranoid about recycled water being added to the drinking water. Has anyone here ever visited a major city in Europe? Most cities over there are the same, but let's take London as an example. Who here has been to London and drunk the water out of the tap?

If you have then you've drunk recycled water. The water that comes out the tap comes from the Thames - that makes the Yarra look like spring water, it is treated, then used by everyone. The sewage is treated by RO and pumped back into the Thames where it all starts again.

The water that from the RO plants I've worked on produce AAA quality water and have more safety systems in them to prevent contamination than you can imagine. The water is clean and safe to drink - simple. You drink the water out your Tap now that fish crap in...:D

We are the driest continent on earth and we have limited and dwindling fresh water supplies. I think it makes much more sense than building desal plants - the recycled water is much cheaper to turn into fresh water than sea water is.

I don't see what all the fuss is about...

It's been estimated that by the time water has flowed from one end of the Thames to the other, it has passed through 7 human bodies.

Adds a bit of flavour. ;)

[frantic]

We use treated water for dust suppression and other non drinking uses at port kembla and there are no smells or discoloration . If the water is smelly get the OHSE committee involved because if a kid gets sick from playing on those field the untreated effluent will hit the fan .;) As it will if one of the council workers gets ill from maintaining those grounds. Put in a request that it gets tested 1-2 Times a day for a certain period that will continue if bacteria levels are high.
The only problem could be that the local either groundspeople or gardeners have decided to fertilise their fields/gardens(no footy or cricket for a few weeks+ schools out till end of Jan)and combined that with high temps and water have made a stench.

[Bigbjorn]

We have a desalination plant and a recycled water scheme built during the recent drought when Brisbane water storage was down to 10% of capacity and Toowoomba virtually down to zero. Supplies being pumped in. Very strict water conservation rules were applied. The desalination plant is mothballed. The authority has trouble selling the recycled water. The original intent was to pump the recycled water into the main storages and be treated with the rest of the storage. Public opinion was firmly against this so it never happened.

[Bushie]

Sydney is already drinking recycled water, especially if your supply comes from Warragamba.

There are a number of sewage treatment plants that discharge into the Wollondilly River and Wingecarribee Rivers, ie Bowral STP, Goulburn STP and Lithgow STP.

Water from Winmallee STP eventually finds its way into the Richmond/Windsor water treatment plants.

Interestingly when the water treatment facility was being built at Woronora Dam the french company couldn't work out why we were building it as the inflow water was better quality than the outflow from their treatment plants in France (admittedly we're talking some 15 years ago).
Incidentally this was one of the few dams that did not require water to be boiled during the cryptosporidium/giardia problems in 1997.

Treated sewage is used to irrigate ovals etc around the Woolaware area, can't say I've heard any complaints about smell, it's picked up from the discharge out of Cronulla STP and subject to some further treatment before being used.


Martyn

[isuzurover]

Back on topic...

Andy, are you sure the smell is from the oval and not the treatment tanks?

All WWTPs I have seen before have been required to test the water daily, not weekly.

[Mick_Marsh]

We have a desalination plant and a recycled water scheme built during the recent drought when Brisbane water storage was down to 10% of capacity and Toowoomba virtually down to zero. Supplies being pumped in. Very strict water conservation rules were applied. The desalination plant is mothballed. The authority has trouble selling the recycled water. The original intent was to pump the recycled water into the main storages and be treated with the rest of the storage. Public opinion was firmly against this so it never happened.
There was a current affairs special on Poowoomba. For comparison, they highlighted a few towns and suburbs in NSW that had dual water reticulation systems. A much more acceptable idea.

[LandyAndy]

Thanks for posting the link Andrew - from your description and the content of the approval that you linked to, the operator (the Council?) may be contravening the licence.

Did the person that prepared the risk assessment understand the project and does the operator have the requisite skills to operate the sytem correctly?

I would be getting onto the EPA without delay and if you have a tame solicitor, talk to him as well.

I gather that you are employed the Council and obviously you need to take care not to jeopardise your job, but nobody should have to put up with that kind of pollution.

Maybe get one of the councillers around while it's bad to have a sniff.

There's one of these systems operating in the Moonbi/Kootigal area (NSW) with none of the issues you are describing.

Its not owned by the shire,we just get the use of the surplus water.
Im sure it will get sorted.No need running to the EPA or lawyers,Im sure if there is a problem we will just turn the pipe off and go back to the railway dam and scheme water for the oval until its sorted!!!!
Last nite was OK as far a smell goes,acceptable.
I was merely seeking to see what smell others experience from similar systems.
Andrew

[LandyAndy]

Hey Landy Andy,

Im managinging the change over to reticulated water at our colledge, we have three ovals and many lawns. with our 42c tempratures today hope we dont have the same trouble. I will let you know. until then have a good new year. its 43 here tomorrow.

Let us know how it goes Adrian.
One of my jobs early in the new year is to construct a brand new hockey pitch to use this free waste water.
Andrew

[LandyAndy]

Back on topic...

Andy, are you sure the smell is from the oval and not the treatment tanks?

All WWTPs I have seen before have been required to test the water daily, not weekly.
Hi Ben.
The storage tank at the depot was tested daily for 3 or 4 weeks during the startup phase as far as Im aware.
Its not the treatment dams,they dont smell and are much further away from town.
It only smells whilst the sprinklers are running 10pm to 3am.
Problem could be with the watering days,mon to thu at the moment as we dont get enough treated water to go 7 days(gravity feed pipe to the depot is too small diameter).Guessing the balance left in the tank between thu watering and mon watering could be allowing the effulent to brew.As we are on holidays there hasnt been anyone around to shandy the storage tank with the normal water to allow 7 day watering.
Andrew

[Bigbjorn]

Think about it. All water is recycled. No-one is making new water. All the water on this planet is all there ever has been. It goes around and around through one set of kidneys after another.

[Mick_Marsh]

Think about it. All water is recycled. No-one is making new water. All the water on this planet is all there ever has been. It goes around and around through one set of kidneys after another.
But don't forget nature gives us clean water through a distillation process. (evaporation - clouds - rain)
The best we do is filtration. I would rather drink water distilled from urine than filtered urine.
Seems to me you'd be quite happy drinking filtered urine. But, then, you're used to drinking Queensland beer. Probably not much difference.

[Bigbjorn]

But don't forget nature gives us clean water through a distillation process. (evaporation - clouds - rain)
The best we do is filtration. I would rather drink water distilled from urine than filtered urine.
Seems to me you'd be quite happy drinking filtered urine. But, then, you're used to drinking Queensland beer. Probably not much difference.

The idea of natural distillation is fine in theory assuming the rain falls directly into your drinking glass. Unfortunately for the theory, rain falls on the ground and overland flows pick up all sorts of nasties on the way to the storage dams including recycled treated ( and sometimes untreated) sewage.

Anyway, a Victorian could not recognise beer as nothing resembling beer is made by Foster's Brewing Ltd. My late father-in-law referred to Carlton products as Surfside Sex.

[sheerluck]

......Seems to me you'd be quite happy drinking filtered urine. But, then, you're used to drinking Queensland beer. Probably not much difference.

Oi! I'll have you know Queensland beer is made from unfiltered urine. Filtering....I don't know what you Mexican softies think passes for beer, but up here it's the cats that pass it. :p

[Mick_Marsh]

The idea of natural distillation is fine in theory assuming the rain falls directly into your drinking glass. Unfortunately for the theory, rain falls on the ground and overland flows pick up all sorts of nasties on the way to the storage dams including recycled treated ( and sometimes untreated) sewage.

Anyway, a Victorian could not recognise beer as nothing resembling beer is made by Foster's Brewing Ltd. My late father-in-law referred to Carlton products as Surfside Sex.
Falls straight into my rainwater collection and storage units. That's not theory.

Still, I'd rather drink the water from the storage dams than filtered ****.

When I drink beer, I drink the best beer Australia has to offer, Coopers.
Actually, last night I was having dinner with a member of the Cooper family.
Yes, the beer brewing Cooper family.

[Bigbjorn]

Falls straight into my rainwater collection and storage units. That's not theory.

Still, I'd rather drink the water from the storage dams than filtered ****.

When I drink beer, I drink the best beer Australia has to offer, Coopers.
Actually, last night I was having dinner with a member of the Cooper family.
Yes, the beer brewing Cooper family.

And the rainwater falls on your roof and mixes with the bird poo and anything else that is blown there.

[Mick_Marsh]

And the rainwater falls on your roof and mixes with the bird poo and anything else that is blown there.
Hmmm, No.
What falls on the roof goes into the drainage system, into a river, then a dam and then gets used for irrigation of crops.
Still, I'd rather drink that filtered than what we flush down our toilets, laundry troughs and showers filtered.

[frantic]

Hmmm, No.
What falls on the roof goes into the drainage system, into a river, then a dam and then gets used for irrigation of crops.
Still, I'd rather drink that filtered than what we flush down our toilets, laundry troughs and showers filtered.

Rainwater is great in rural areas where the only real contamination comes from dust or leaves etc, the problem in suburbia is pollution from cars, truck and industry as well as the no idea renovations who sand , cut or in one case I know of water blast their old house that is lined with a delicious combo of asbestos and lead paint. All this dust goes up to land in your rainwater tank:twisted:. One simpleton blasted off his asbestow Roof with a karcher Type blaster coating all his neighbours homes as well as the school playground in fibres! The cleanup was in the six figures as they had to clean everything including the airconditioning ducting in a neighbours home as well as the lawns in 3 yards and the school.

[Mick_Marsh]

frantic,
I don't live in suburbia. I have worked in the sewerage and water supply industry for many years. I've worked on projects at SEPP, Werribee Farm and several regional purification plants. Oh, on the water supply side, I've been involved in several chlorination and fluoridation plants. I also know a little bit about RO units as used on mines and petrochemical plants.
You're still not going to convince me I need to drink filtered **** at home. It's ok for the garden and flushing toilets but I ain't drinking it.

[bob10]

It's funny the perspective on drinking water people have. Just been up to Gayndah,[ inland from Bundaberg] checking out houses for the daughter, during her up coming stint as a teacher there. One house had 3 water tanks, when I asked if the house had town water, the agent said all houses had town water, but we don't drink it, with that chlorine in it. Only good for washing etc. . You Brisbane people can have it. Bob