nuclear fusion, the magic bullet?

[bob10]

Is fusion the answer to clean energy production? Bob


One giant leap for mankind: £13bn Iter project makes breakthrough in the quest for nuclear fusion, a solution to climate change and an age of clean, cheap energy - Science - News - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/one-giant-leap-for-mankind-13bn-iter-project-makes-breakthrough-in-the-quest-for-nuclear-fusion-a-solution-to-climate-change-and-an-age-of-clean-cheap-energy-8590480.html)

[JDNSW]

We may know in ten or twenty years. Fusion has been promising to be the solution to energy since before I was born!

John

[bob10]

Somehow it makes me nervous that they are attempting to replicate the power of the sun, on Earth. [ that's how I see it, probably wrong] But, they know what they are doing.....Bob

[bee utey]

The prototype will be ready in 10-20 years. Then they can start to think about building a working one. Cost overruns anyone?

In the meantime the world can be powered by plastering a few deserts with solar thermal plants and connecting them with superconducting DC cables to where the energy is consumed.

[Pinelli]

The prototype will be ready in 10-20 years. Then they can start to think about building a working one. Cost overruns anyone? In the meantime the world can be powered by plastering a few deserts with solar thermal plants and connecting them with superconducting DC cables to where the energy is consumed.

You make it sound do easy! :P

[Mick_Marsh]

For Australia, a distributed solar networks is the way to go as long as we have a suitable way to store the energy collected through the day to be used at night. Oh and a spattering of other technologies such as "hot rock" and that rather interesting one using the heat trapped under the coal seams out in eastern Victoria. That would supply the states base load.

[Slunnie]

For Australia, a distributed solar networks is the way to go as long as we have a suitable way to store the energy collected through the day to be used at night. Oh and a spattering of other technologies such as "hot rock" and that rather interesting one using the heat trapped under the coal seams out in eastern Victoria. That would supply the states base load.
If its green I'd expect it wont go ahead anymore.

[superquag]

And we think that Vested Interests are going to sit back and applaud all of this happening ? :angel:

[jspyle]

I was watching something about this on SBS the other night.
https://lasers.llnl.gov/about/nif/about.php

[Pinelli]

For Australia, a distributed solar networks is the way to go as long as we have a suitable way to store the energy collected through the day to be used at night. Oh and a spattering of other technologies such as "hot rock" and that rather interesting one using the heat trapped under the coal seams out in eastern Victoria. That would supply the states base load.



I do like this idea, but it's really a lot more complex than it sounds. Storage can be done in a number of ways such as hydroelectric dams, hydrogen storage (from electrolysis) and so on, but the distribution can be difficult to manage. As it is, distribution networks are having to be upgraded to handle large scale installation of domestic solar systems. It's the economics here that would need to be carefully investigated, versus the economics of nuclear power, which is also marginal while coal is so cheap.
I'm also not sure that Australia is geologically active enough for geothermal to provide widespread base load. Happy to be proven otherwise, though, if it has been investigated!

[Mick_Marsh]

I do like this idea, but it's really a lot more complex than it sounds. Storage can be done in a number of ways such as hydroelectric dams, hydrogen storage (from electrolysis) and so on, but the distribution can be difficult to manage. As it is, distribution networks are having to be upgraded to handle large scale installation of domestic solar systems. It's the economics here that would need to be carefully investigated, versus the economics of nuclear power, which is also marginal while coal is so cheap.
I'm also not sure that Australia is geologically active enough for geothermal to provide widespread base load. Happy to be proven otherwise, though, if it has been investigated!
From a CSIRO report (http://www.csiro.au/Organisation-Structure/Divisions/Earth-Science--Resource-Engineering/Geothermal-energy.aspx).
"Australia has some of the best resources of hot rocks in the world"

There are a few already operating at Iniminka (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-02/outback-hot-rock-test-site-powers-up/4665070) and Birdsville (I think). Yes, they are test sites.
The proposed geothermal power station in eastern Victoria would utilise existing distribution infrastructure.

Yes, local solar and wind generation will require upgrades to the local distribution network but I'm not talking about solar panels on domestic roofs. I'm talking solar power generation plants like the molten salt power plants. Great to run the summer airconditioners.

[Pinelli]

Yes, Birdsville definitely does. One of the first three places in the world to have electric street lighting. From memory, London, New York and Birdsville :)


Thanks for the CSIRO link, I'll read that tonight. Geothermal is a great option if it's in the right spot and can supply enough.

[Hall]

Thorium reactor. We have the biggest supply of the stuff. Is a lot safer than uranium reactors as it has a way shorter span. Down side is it is tricky to get a reaction going, hence why it was not used as a weapon, and you need to keep feeding the reactor. Up side of keeping the reactor going is it`s main diet of choice once the reaction is started is waste from other uranium reactors. At the moment it is used in, of all things, mantels for gas lanterns.
Cheers Hall

[Mick_Marsh]

Thorium reactor. We have the biggest supply of the stuff. Is a lot safer than uranium reactors as it has a way shorter span. Down side is it is tricky to get a reaction going, hence why it was not used as a weapon, and you need to keep feeding the reactor. Up side of keeping the reactor going is it`s main diet of choice once the reaction is started is waste from other uranium reactors. At the moment it is used in, of all things, mantels for gas lanterns.
Cheers Hall
Still has a waste problem. Where will that waste be put? Your backyard? Not mine.

[Hall]

Still has a waste problem. Where will that waste be put? Your backyard? Not mine.
In comparison to uranium waste a short hundred years and it is more stable. From what I have read and understood thorium is a lot less radioactive than uranium.
Cheers Hall

[bob10]

Some years ago, a mate of mine worked on a drilling rig in SW Qld, drilling for a mob experimenting with the hot rock technology. He said they thought it was feasible, just a few hiccups to be sorted. Don't know what eventually happened, Bob


Geothermal energy: hot fractured rocks | CSIRO (http://www.csiro.au/Organisation-Structure/Divisions/Earth-Science--Resource-Engineering/Geothermal-energy.aspx)

[PeterM]

There isn't a successful geothermal setup going yet, despite large sums of government and investor money getting thrown that way.

Fusion reactors have been made to work in a very small scale (laboratory) but the leap to make a commercial sized one is rather significant.

[sheerluck]

There isn't a successful geothermal setup going yet, despite large sums of government and investor money getting thrown that way.......

Not in Australia, but plenty of examples from around the world. In Iceland, they get something like 30% of their power from Geothermal plants. Even the Kiwis can manage it. :D

[Mick_Marsh]

There isn't a successful geothermal setup going yet, despite large sums of government and investor money getting thrown that way.
In Australia. Plenty successful ones around the world and New Zealand.

Fusion reactors have been made to work in a very small scale (laboratory) but the leap to make a commercial sized one is rather significant.
Yep. Fusion reactors are a long way off.

[PeterM]

Since we were talking about Australia, I didn't feel the need to prefix the comment to restrict it to Australia but there you go.

The geology of places is unique around the world so the theory is the only aspect that is transferable. The actual method is what they can't get right here. If I remember correctly the sub-terranean pipework isn't surviving and that's rather important in getting the system to function.

[Pinelli]

[QUOTE=Mick_Marsh;2056366]From a CSIRO report (http://www.csiro.au/Organisation-Structure/Divisions/Earth-Science--Resource-Engineering/Geothermal-energy.aspx).

And I like this line:
"The heat is generated from the radioactive decay of trace elements within the granites."

Wonder if the Greenies will get on to the fact that geothermal power is nuclear based and want to ban it :)

[mikehzz]

Gravity is the source of just about all the energy you can think of. Gravity causes the fusion reaction in the sun, the creation of heavy elements like Uranium and the heat from the Earth's core. As a flow on, the sun creates hydrocarbons etc. We should be trying to learn about gravity....it's very mysterious and we know **** all about it. Gravity is an innate perpetual energy creation machine. That's what I think anyway. :)

[SuperMono]

Just finished reading through some reviews of Telsa's theories and research.
He proposed that the natural attributes of the Earth (gravity and vibration frequencies) could be used to distribute energy widely by wireless means.
He also proposed death rays and talking to Martians so sorting out the practical from the mad scientist probably isn't easy.

However, given he was certainly one of the most brilliant minds of anytime and discovered many of the underlying principles used in electrical and radio technologies some of the wilder stuff is probably worth revisiting.