Impressive haul truck

[Chucaro]

These are going to be a competition to the big Cat and Komatsu rigid haul trucks if they are not already.
Tey are powered by an awesome 1 920 kW MTU Mercedes-Benz diesel engine,
and depending on the model and configuration they have a 280-3600 metric tons cargo capacity.
Unique to ETF, each truck irrespective of capacity can operate together with others of the same capacity as a ‘Haul Train’ two; three, four or more individual trucks can easily be linked together using a steel arm carrying an enclosed armoured data cable within its structure. Information data from the first operator controlled truck is transmitted via the link arm to the following trucks guiding and controlling all important operating functions like engine power, steering direction and brakes, just as if each unit had separate operators following each other.

http://www.etftrucks.eu/images/ETF1386.jpg/

The train configuration

ETF Haul Train leaving open pit mine - YouTube


ETF home page (http://www.etftrucks.eu/Mining-Trucks/)

[Mick_Marsh]

They will still have to dump them into the hoppers one truck at a time.

[Chucaro]

They will still have to dump them into the hoppers one truck at a time.

Do you think so? :D

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[UncleHo]

Aah! side unloaders :)

[uninformed]

scary!

[Fatso]

So how does the ore get to the crusher from down the side of the dump area :confused: .

[bob10]

Impressive, how long before they are computer controlled, Bob


ETF Truck during Slippery Conditions - YouTube (http://youtu.be/Tn8cXP0-o2c)

[Chucaro]

So how does the ore get to the crusher from down the side of the dump area :confused: .

I guess Fasto that the flexibility of the design allows the truck to be used in different situations.

http://www.etftrucks.eu/images/trucktipping.jpg/

http://www.etftrucks.eu/images/haultrainsimultaneoustipping2.jpg/

[Homestar]

Impressive, how long before they are computer controlled, Bob


ETF Truck during Slippery Conditions - YouTube (http://youtu.be/Tn8cXP0-o2c)

Haul trucks are already computer controlled in places. They can have 1 guy sitting in air conditioned comfort in Perth operating up to 10 haul trucks 1000's of KM away. They are smart enough to automatically locate themselves under the loader/shovel all on their own then get back out of the pit without human intervention.

Back to these EFT trucks - they have been making CG videos about them for a while now, but one hasn't been built yet....

[Tombie]

Haul trucks are already computer controlled in places. They can have 1 guy sitting in air conditioned comfort in Perth operating up to 10 haul trucks 1000's of KM away. They are smart enough to automatically locate themselves under the loader/shovel all on their own then get back out of the pit without human intervention.



Back to these EFT trucks - they have been making CG videos about them for a while now, but one hasn't been built yet....


Thanks Bacicat...

Yes, lots of CGI and no real metal...

And yes, the Perth control
Centre is quite clever.
Just like the pilots of Drones

[Chucaro]

Thanks Bacicat...

Yes, lots of CGI and no real metal...

And yes, the Perth control
Centre is quite clever.
Just like the pilots of Drones

Is that based on the Command Software by Cat?

I just wonder if the EFT trucks are a con job or just to expensive to make them a reality?

[Mick_Marsh]

Do you think so? :D

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/
Yep. Certainly do.

[Ferret]

Is that based on the Command Software by Cat?


No, it was jointly developed by Rio Tinto and Komatsu

[BMKal]

No, it was jointly developed by Rio Tinto and Komatsu

In my last job, I spent a fair bit of time in Rio Tinto's OCS centre, located at Perth Airport. The company I was contracted to had just completed building and commissioning the new crushing plant at Mesa A, and we were in the process of "handing over" to Rio. Part of my role was to provide training to the Rio operators in the operation of the new plant, which is run from the control centre in Perth.

Interesting to see that, not only do they control the crushing plant from this location - they also control a number of driver-less dump trucks on this site (plus on other minesites), and they can also operate trains from the same control centre - there are no drivers on the trains when they are being loaded at Mesa A.

The trucks are controlled by computer plotting GPS co-ordinates, and this system is so accurate that they have to enter some "variability" into the plotted haul routes to avoid "ruts" being worn in the haul roads.

The system that Rio uses for their trucks has been developed jointly with Komatsu - but Caterpillar are now getting in on the action through development of similar systems with BHPIO and FMG.

As others have said - there have been video clips and other promotional materials around about these "EFT" trucks / haul trains for quite a number of years now - I forgot how long ago it was that I first saw them promoted. They have some very interesting concepts - including the ability to "self load". But to the best of my knowledge - there are still none in existence.

One of the biggest limitations at the moment on the development of larger and faster haul trucks is the availability of tyres that can handle the duty. Caterpillar's largest model currently is the 797 - but I don't know of anyone who actually has any of these in Australia - it's hard enough getting tyres for the smaller 793's (of which there are now plenty in Australia).

We are running a thing called the "Haulmax" at one of our jobs in the north west. Caterpillar running gear, but a high speed off road hauler (compared with a traditional dump truck) made by Dale Elphinstone's company in Tasmania.

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/834/3pnl.JPG (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/199/3pnl.JPG/)

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/2711/jd5e.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/534/jd5e.jpg/)


Brilliant concept - but they have still been unable to find a tyre that can handle what the truck will do (100 tonne payload at up to 70 km/h over reasonably long haul distances). We have had to reduce speed / lock out gears to reduce tyre damage - the manufacturers of the trucks are still working constantly with a number of tyre manufacturers to come up with something that will handle the duty.

We also run conventional 100 tonne payload Cat dump trucks on the same job - no tyre problems with these, but they are only good for short haul and at nowhere near the same speed as the Haulmax.

[Dougal]

I can't see this design ever being a threat to the existing designs.
Simply too complex with too many parts for reliability in mine conditions.

[ramblingboy42]

Dougal, it's exactly the opposite, with 30 min changeovers on major drivetrain items.

Once any company decides to run with this type of vehicle concept and modifies their ROM they will be in front of their competitors.

Blackwater mine in Qld use Cressis for their "long haul" but still have tyre issues.

This new concept will basically eliminate tyre issues...ie fires etc.

Drivers are a real problem in the mines. They are just guys...and girls.....like you and I and are expected to work like robots.

This new concept will also eliminate a lot of driver problems as well.

They will be built...the mining companies can't afford not to have them.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

might be just my eyes getting on,,
but the promo pic of the Haulmax is running way smaller, more road tyres, than the at work shot below it--
or is it just shadows?

[Dougal]

Dougal, it's exactly the opposite, with 30 min changeovers on major drivetrain items.

Once any company decides to run with this type of vehicle concept and modifies their ROM they will be in front of their competitors.

Blackwater mine in Qld use Cressis for their "long haul" but still have tyre issues.

This new concept will basically eliminate tyre issues...ie fires etc.

Drivers are a real problem in the mines. They are just guys...and girls.....like you and I and are expected to work like robots.

This new concept will also eliminate a lot of driver problems as well.

They will be built...the mining companies can't afford not to have them.

Fast change doesn't mitigate the excessive number of components.
I do work with mines and none of the mines I've been involved with would be interested in these.

Automation exists for current trucks. That is not an advantage for this virtual concept.

[Hay Ewe]

Pretty sure I saw these in the Courier Mail saturday paper a few years back (when Mrs Hay Ewe brought news papers)

intersting concept and I think its another company that are trying something new to break in to the market with an alternate option.

I think that because they are so new and different there is a limited opening for them but I am thinking the ground pressure from having more tires might be an advantage on softer less stable ground?

but as has been said, tires are a problem (apparntly, but more tires less load per wheel?) and if automation already exists for similar equipment then its a tough area to get in to.

Hay Ewe

[BMKal]

might be just my eyes getting on,,
but the promo pic of the Haulmax is running way smaller, more road tyres, than the at work shot below it--
or is it just shadows?


Probably correct Pedro. Looks like bitumen road tyres in the promo shot, and off-road or haul road tyres in the working shot. The "working" shot is not one of ours - there's snow in the background and we rarely see that at Nullagine. :D

We use ours on a dirt haul road to haul directly from a "satellite" pit about 7km from the crushing plant to the ROM. Crushed product is hauled on a 55km bitumen sealed haul road from the crusher to the railhead, using "Powertrans" pit hauler road trains, each of 360 tonnes payload similar to pic below. Ours only run 4 trailers due mainly to hilly terrain.

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/6714/s7ez.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/822/s7ez.jpg/)

Those on our site are also a different colour scheme to the one above. The older ones are painted in the blue & white livery of Mitchells Haulage, while newer ones are painted in the green TOLL livery (TOLL took over Mitchells a couple of years ago). The photos shown here are of Gulf Transport or Bulkhaul trains - all now a subsidiary of BIS.

At a gold mine where I worked previously not far from home, they ran the "Powertrans" underground road trains, which hauled directly from the underground mine to the ROM, eliminating the double handling step often required with conventional underground mining trucks.

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/3601/7gis.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/7gis.jpg/)

Drive arrangements on all of these are generally 600hp Cummins and Allison auto in both the prime mover and power trailers.

[Ferret]

The system that Rio uses for their trucks has been developed jointly with Komatsu

Wife was former Rio Chief Commercial Officer to this project - very messy when came time to sort out who owed what in respect to IP for commercialisation purposes.

[BMKal]

Dougal, it's exactly the opposite, with 30 min changeovers on major drivetrain items.

Yes - definitely less time off the road with this concept, due to the "modular" nature of all drivetrain components. In theory, it is streets ahead of what is currently in use (provided of course you have spare "modules" on site).

Once any company decides to run with this type of vehicle concept and modifies their ROM they will be in front of their competitors.

Blackwater mine in Qld use Cressis for their "long haul" but still have tyre issues.

This new concept will basically eliminate tyre issues...ie fires etc.

Not with today's current tyre technology. One of the main reasons why this concept is yet to proceed is that the tyres required for the duty of these trucks have yet to be developed. Even with the development of a suitable tyre (if it ever happens) - the possibility of tyre issues such as separation / tyre fires etc will not be eliminated by this concept. Those issues may eventually be eliminated by tyre design - but that applies equally to all types of haulage trucks.

Drivers are a real problem in the mines. They are just guys...and girls.....like you and I and are expected to work like robots.

This new concept will also eliminate a lot of driver problems as well.

No different to what is currently happening with Komatsu / Caterpillar.

They will be built...the mining companies can't afford not to have them.[/COLOR]

If it ever happens, I believe it will not be in our lifetime.



What are "Cressis" ? Only thing I could find in google is scuba diving gear.

[Ferret]

'Cressies' - Kress Corporation

[BMKal]

Wife was former Rio Chief Commercial Officer to this project - very messy when came time to sort out who owed what in respect to IP for commercialisation purposes.

That's interesting. I never had anything to do with the automation / remote control of the mining gear or the railways. But I often wondered who owned the "rights" to the control systems for the crushing plant. The actual DCS that we (HWE / Leighton) installed to control the plant was Citect - but the interface between Citect and the operator control panels in Perth was I believe a Rio Tinto "in-house" system.

Must say that I was very impressed with Rio's on-line training system. I had a lot to do with getting the relevant training materials into this system - it's by far the best that I have seen in the industry (runs rings around "The Big Autralian"). ;) Their integration of this system with SAP gives them incredible management of the training and skills levels of employees and contractors on their operations, and provides employees with the ability to undertake training for new roles, and then to seek promotion / advancement, from any work area.

[Chucaro]

BM Kal which kind of engine and power have the truck that is on the haulage train?
There are few tons to town there including the weight of the rig!!

[ramblingboy42]

What are "Cressis" ? Only thing I could find in google is scuba diving gear.

try these............

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=kress+hauler&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=JEDGUqj2Jom-kgWu9IHYBA&ved=0CEsQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=599

[CraigE]

My understanding is that these trucks do exist but so far only a couple of prototypes. They are based on the same chassis as the Russian Missile Carriers. I was also informed that there was one - only a single in Australia on trial at present, but the cost involved on setting up a 5 unit system was upwards of $30 million, though with both Cat and Komatsu proposing no more sales of trucks to companies but hire based on a % of commodity prices could get real interesting.

[BMKal]

BM Kal which kind of engine and power have the truck that is on the haulage train?
There are few tons to town there including the weight of the rig!!

Arthur, the prime movers and power trailers generally have 600 horsepower Cummins engines, matched to Allison automatic transmissions.

The ones on the site where we are (not sure how many they have now - was 11 trains a while back but I think that final number is 15 trains) only run one power trailer in each consist - so a total of 1,200 horsepower for each train. I have seen other applications using a prime mover and two power trailers - total of 1,800 horsepower. I am not sure whether this is the maximum that they can run in a single consist. The biggest of these that I have seen consisted of prime mover and 7 trailers at The Granites Gold Mine in the NT - but pretty sure that these had no more than two power trailers in each road train.

[London Boy]

Caterpillar's largest model currently is the 797 - but I don't know of anyone who actually has any of these in Australia - it's hard enough getting tyres for the smaller 793's (of which there are now plenty in Australia).
BMA uses 797's up in the Bowen Basin.

[Dougal]

Do you think so? :D

http://www.etftrucks.eu/images/ETF1293_ht-485_parallel_dumping_web.jpg/

I'm not seeing a connected train as an efficiency gain. In most places it would be a loss.
Individual trucks can be run spaced to the point where the loader or excavator finishes one and starts on the other. The one just loaded is already a decent way up the road before the next is loaded and ready.

With them tied together you've got work-flow issues (no truck can leave until they're all full), movement issues (huge turning circle compared to a rigid truck) and any material dropped between the trucks while loading becomes a big problem.

[bob10]

What next, Bob


The Truck of the Future Will Have Everything...Except a Driver - NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/truck-future-will-have-everything-except-driver-n147796)

[isuzurover]

What next, Bob


The Truck of the Future Will Have Everything...Except a Driver - NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/truck-future-will-have-everything-except-driver-n147796)

They already exist in the mining industry. A close relative works for CAT developing autonomous mine trucks.
AUTONOMOUS HAULAGE IMPROVES MINE SITE SAFETY | Cat MineStar System (http://www.catminestarsystem.com/articles/autonomous-haulage-improves-mine-site-safety)

[Ferret]

Rio Tinto's driverless 'autonomous haul trucks' have driven ~100000 km since becoming operational about 4 years ago. Part of Rinto Tinto's "mine of the future" project.

[V8Ian]

It won't happen while there are still subbies to be chewed up, spat out and ripped off..

[bee utey]

Never mind the trucks, I want driverless cars to become mainstream so all the idiot drivers are forced out of the control seat. Licences for regular vehicles will only be available to those people who can show real driving ability.

[bob10]

Never mind the trucks, I want driverless cars to become mainstream so all the idiot drivers are forced out of the control seat. Licences for regular vehicles will only be available to those people who can show real driving ability.


I don't understand, how can any one show real driving ability, if cars drive themselves? Bob
:confused: :angel:

[bee utey]

I don't understand, how can any one show real driving ability, if cars drive themselves? Bob
:confused: :angel:
You're not trying very hard there, Bob. In the same way that automatic transmissions haven't totally wiped out the manual trans, or ABS and stability control haven't totally wiped out the basic cars of old, the driverless car won't remove all current technology cars. To learn how to drive one of these archaic monsters the youth of tomorrow will have to take serious lessons on how to drive one at a suitable advanced driving school. Those people who fail the test will be like passengers in planes today, unable to take control but perfectly able to get to their work or destination with someone/something else doing the guiding. You won't be limiting their mobility, only their fallibility.

[Leigh 110]

FYI- in case anyone is interested the material handling industry has had driverless equipment for almost a decade.... called AGV, automated guided vehicles, soon they will TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!!!!!:o:o:o:o:o

[101 Ron]

Container wharfs in Brisbane and Sydney are currently running driver less container handling forklifts.
AGV forklifts for the inside of factories have been around for 25 years.
Intergration with wharehouse storage ,transport and production order computer systems as advanced greatly in recent years.

[Bigbjorn]

Fiat had an automated engine assembly plant 20 years ago. Engines assembled by robots and untouched by human hand. Materiel delivered to the work stations by automated carriers following magnetic tracks in the floor and a computer telling them where to go and stop.

[Dougal]

Fiat had an automated engine assembly plant 20 years ago. Engines assembled by robots and untouched by human hand. Materiel delivered to the work stations by automated carriers following magnetic tracks in the floor and a computer telling them where to go and stop.

Fiat also beat Henry ford to the production line. Just not as successfully.
Very innovative that group of Italians. Shame they never turned their attention to rust prevention.

[Bigbjorn]

Fiat also beat Henry ford to the production line. Just not as successfully.
Very innovative that group of Italians. Shame they never turned their attention to rust prevention.

Fiat made good diesel engines and good earthmoving equipment. Pity about the cars and trucks. The one good thing you can say about Fiat cars is that they are marginally better than Renaults.

[Dougal]

Fiat made good diesel engines and good earthmoving equipment. Pity about the cars and trucks. The one good thing you can say about Fiat cars is that they are marginally better than Renaults.

Fiats were always great fun to drive. Got a 1979 Fiat 132-2000 here in a shed. DOHC, 5 speed, four link rear suspension. Well ahead of japanese cars of the era. The chassis communicates really well to the driver. Typical Italian engineering quality (just good enough).

This one only survived because it's in the driest part of the country. All others crumbled to rust long ago.