P38 Show stoppers and recalls

[TheTree]

Hi

I am looking at making a list of these items, I haven't seen one anywhere the one on rr.net is pretty good but doesn't say the CPS can stop you dead for instance.

Firstly it would be good to know what parts which you are able to carry which are show stoppers, things where the beast will not even limp home

So far I only have the Crank Position Sensor

Are there other items like this it is worth having on hand?


The second part of the list is recalls/bulletins/things which go boom, which don't seem to be in rr.net

So far
1) Factory bulletin on the thor idler pulleys, the plastic ones cause issues and are superceded

2) The Fans have been known to explode, not surprising after around 15 years

Any more of these?

Steve

[mtb_gary]

Steve

The Viscous Coupling in the Transfer Case as I found out the hard way. If it explodes no more drive.

The plastic locating washers in the ABS modulator, not so much a show stopper but a show no stopper :o if they disintegrate.

Key fob battery could also be a show stopper.

Plus of course fuses...

Gary

[benji]

There are ways around most things of course.

Yes crank position sensor (ckp) is a show stopper; but if you cool it it may get you home.

Relays (efi relay) can be bypassed, as all the sensors and injectors (except ckp) run of the same ignition +v feed.

A really bad fuse box could stop things; but it's not hard to bypass the fuel pump fuse and relay, or feed power directly to the becm.

My only other thought would be an alternator (though with a full battery (or two), and the eas /hevac dissabled you should have at least a 100km range - maybe more on lpg if you disabled the fuel pump, and took out the efi fuse.

If I broke a diff in the bush, is there a way to drive out in 2wd?

[Hoges]

yep, disconnect the drive shaft to the broken diff. The VC takes care of the rest.

[benji]

I should have explained myself...
What if the diff has locked up?

Can the stake nut be undone easily?

[Robsrod 58]

From what I've learned the only two sensors on the engine that will produce a no go are the crank and cam sensors, so the experts tell me, I spose there is a plethera of mechanical things that can go wrong.

I guess all you can do is keep on top of the services, and that goes for any 4wd I guess!

Rob

[Hoges]

From what I've learned the only two sensors on the engine that will produce a no go are the crank and cam sensors, so the experts tell me, I spose there is a plethera of mechanical things that can go wrong.

I guess all you can do is keep on top of the services, and that goes for any 4wd I guess!

Rob

According to RAVE, the camshaft sensor is used for injection timing and knock control. If it fails, the system defaults to standard timing and sequential injection occurs at Top Dead Centre...you may be lucky and it will fire at TDC on the compression stroke... but you could be unlucky and it will be one revolution out :eek: So, it's 50% chance of being a show stopper ... and I guess you might limp home...albeit with a sickly engine. It will throw out the code P0340 ...

[Keithy P38]

Will it chuck a MIL lamp up on the dash?

[benji]

Gems will run with no cps. It'll log a fault code but no mil light. Even with no afm and cps it'll still run - not very hsppily though.

On lpg though, it will run with only the ckp.

I'll need to buy a larger socket, but I reckon with a breaker bar I could get the drive shafts out in the bush. Ergo, a siezed diff could be sorted out. Though with a breaker bar you would be able to take out the diff centre too.

[Hoges]

Will it chuck a MIL lamp up on the dash?

According to RAVE, only the NAS spec vehicles will show a MIL lamp. The CPS performs the same functions for both GEMSand Thor and the default situation is the same.

I replaced the CPS (only because I had a spare!) when I did the heads last year. Interesting though..SWMBO observed what I was doing and asked ...why replace it if it's running OK. I patiently explained it along the lines that the probability of the new one failing was now less than leaving the original in place.
Now I'm a known horder:twisted::wasntme: and she watched as I wiped the original CPS clean, bagged and labelled it. "why are you doing that?" she asked, "...because then I have an emergency spare... which I hope I don't have to use" :angel: She shook her head in a sad sort of way and wandered off...
As my 92 yr old, still driving/gym attending/cryptic X-word enthusiast Dad is fond of repeating: "...Never show women and children half-finished work" :twisted:

[mtb_gary]

According to RAVE, only the NAS spec vehicles will show a MIL lamp. The CPS performs the same functions for both GEMSand Thor and the default situation is the same.

I replaced the CPS (only because I had a spare!) when I did the heads last year. Interesting though..SWMBO observed what I was doing and asked ...why replace it if it's running OK. I patiently explained it along the lines that the probability of the new one failing was now less than leaving the original in place.
Now I'm a known horder:twisted::wasntme: and she watched as I wiped the original CPS clean, bagged and labelled it. "why are you doing that?" she asked, "...because then I have an emergency spare... which I hope I don't have to use" :angel: She shook her head in a sad sort of way and wandered off...
As my 92 yr old, still driving/gym attending/cryptic X-word enthusiast Dad is fond of repeating: "...Never show women and children half-finished work" :twisted:

I get the same comments :D;).

Gary

[SpiggyTopes]

Ha ha!

Nice story - rings many bells!

[Hoges]

Gems will run with no cps. It'll log a fault code but no mil light. Even with no afm and cps it'll still run - not very hsppily though.

On lpg though, it will run with only the ckp.

I'll need to buy a larger socket, but I reckon with a breaker bar I could get the drive shafts out in the bush. Ergo, a siezed diff could be sorted out. Though with a breaker bar you would be able to take out the diff centre too.

I always carry a breaker bar. However, for high torque needs in confined space, e.g. trying to undo a diff flange nut in the bush with limited safe jacking options, there may be too much slack in a breaker bar setup and so you get minimal purchase or leverage and so becomes almost impossible to crack the thread.

Answer: an $80 12V 250+Nm rattle gun fitted with a 6pt impact socket :twisted: is ideal for large flange nuts etc in small spaces

[TheTree]

Hi

Thanks everyone, I will compile a list in the next couple of days

Steve

[benji]

Wheel bearing failure may be another one. RRC /D1 setup is very bush friendly. Though I've never actually heard of wheel bearing trouble on these tbh.

[Hoges]

A replacement hub (complete) seems to be all that's available. At local prices of $750+ each ....

There's a thread on rangerovers.net where some enterprising folk discovered the Timken part numbers and successfully replaced the bearing set, but required a large press (20+Tonne comes to mind) and an oxy torch... The full bearing set is about $100-150 max per hub...

[wayneg]

The bearings are readily available on ebay or any of the UK parts sites. Part number is FTC1507. One of the sites LRDIRECT sells the bearings but goes as far to recommend only buying the complete hub as they are so hard to change.
Cheapest price for bearing I have seen is 39pounds on ebay uk

Here is a writ-up from a guy who did it without a press....http://forum.landrovernet.com/archive/index.php/t-135269.html

[Keithy P38]

Complete hub assemblies are way cheaper out of the UK! I had to replace my left front a few years ago. Easier to do than the bearings by the sound of it too!

As for recalls, I was browsing RR.net last night and there is mention of a few in the problems and repairs section. Such as trailing arms, water pumps and thermostat recalls.

Cheers
Keithy

[davidsonsm]

Always seems to be the front left wheel bearing that goes first.

[Keithy P38]

All these round abouts in Australia doing it... Same for left front tyres wearing quicker than the others!

[davidsonsm]

Yeah I guess the left front is on the gutter and hits more potholes as well.

[benji]

On the very early years - 94ish- there was a recall about the alloy brackets that tie in the rear radius arms as they were cracking. Certainly isn't a problem now.

[Hoges]

All these round abouts in Australia doing it... Same for left front tyres wearing quicker than the others!

Once I learned to take a RH roundabout with all 4 wheels on the ground instead of just 2, the wear rate on the LHS improved:twisted::wasntme:

[Pete38]

Yeh just don't blame the wear on the misses in the passenger seat, otherwise you could get into loads of trouble :wasntme:

[wayneg]

Fuel pump failure will certainly stop things. I have the access hole cut and can change the pump from start to finish in around 20mins.

[TheTree]

Hi

Finally got around to creating this, surprisingly small, page :D

P38 Show Stoppers and Recalls (http://p38.hts.com.au/showstoppers.html)

I left out catastrophic types of failures and just listed things which need to be looked at and parts which can be carried on board

Steve

[LRDan]

Bit of a thread mine, but I guess I'll share my experiences..

So yesterday I destroyed lhf cv whilst in the bush. Initially I thought I had munched the front diff as there was a huge bang and no front wheel drive. No grinding noises whilst driving in a straight line, so limped her home @ <40km/h for about 70km, letting the VC take care of the rwd.

Before I decided to drive, I had a quick search on here, rr.net etc, rang a few people in the know, with mixed results. Some people say its terrible for the VC (overheat then seize) whereas some people (this thread included) say just do it.

How long would you drive in 2wd before biting the bullet and getting a tow/trailer home? How bad is it to basically drive off of the VC? Have I done some other damage that may come back to bite me down the track?

The reason I ask, as I was starting to think (in the bush, getting dark) that I had myself a show stopper.

Dan

[benji]

I remember someone in a classic rangie driving around with the front tailshaft off for a few weeks and it did no damage.

I think you'll be right.

I'm curious though; how hard did you push it to break a cv?

[mtb_gary]

Benji
My LHS CV went whilst coming up out of a combination of rocks and muddy gully. Around a 35 degree incline up a muddy slope on full lock to the right. I was in low range 1st gear after doing rock crawling in the creek bed followed by hard acceleration up the embankment.
Gary

[LRDan]

Thanks - I thought it'd be right, but a long slow drive gives you plenty of time to think of all the negatives!

And tbh I didn't believe I was pushing it overly hard.. I got stuck in a bog hole with a steep exit so there was a bit of back and forth trying to get out the other side. I think what may of happened is the wheel got wedged in the mudguard as I gave her the beans and it went pop. I'm on stock bags with 265/75's.

EDIT: It was my LHS CV too

[davidsonsm]

Is the LHS more prone, like the wheel bearings, from being on the inside track and suffering more vibrations?

[davidsonsm]

IE fatigue eventally leads them to fail in advance of the rhs?

[glenhendry]

Hard luck. Let us know how you go.

IIRC, all CVs are much more prone to fail while the wheel is turned rather than straight. Sometimes it is unavoidable, but if you are going to give it the boot, try to have the front wheels as straight as possible.

[LRDan]

Thanks.

2nd hand genuine has been sourced in Melbourne cheap. Should get me out of trouble, just have to wait 'till I get back from work to pick it up/put it in the car.

New genuine was $500ish, and I dont want a chinese ebay special :eek:

[benji]

Maybe as the left axle is shorter it shock loads the cv more.

Considering how angry the p38s can be in lowrange, they put up with a lot.

[Keithy P38]

Yeah I'll attest to that benji! I thought I'd done a CV a few weeks ago but it was a uni joint instead!

Drive hard knowing that it'll one day break, or drive easy and let the Rangie do the talking ;-)

[mtb_gary]

Fuel pump failure will certainly stop things. I have the access hole cut and can change the pump from start to finish in around 20mins.
Wayne
Do you have dimensions of where you cut the hole to get access to the fuel pump. It's been one of those "must get arount to one day" jobs that I think now is the time! A pic would be useful too ;).

Gary

[wayneg]

Fuel Pump Access, Replacement and Rebuild ing (http://www.rangerovers.net/repairdetails/fuelpump4.html)

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/152444-ran-out-fuel-wrecked-pump-fuel-pump-access-hole-made.html