Geared steam locos

[V8Ian]

The poor fireman would be busy keeping steam up to the whistle happy driver.

Geared Steam Locomotives in Cass WV - YouTube

[cjc_td5]

They look very much like the Shays that were used on the Newnes railway (Wolgan Valley), with their upright pistons and offset boiler. I know they were imported from the USA so may be the same class etc?

[THE BOOGER]

Driver is an artist with the whistle love watching and listening to steam:D

[JDNSW]

They look very much like the Shays that were used on the Newnes railway (Wolgan Valley), with their upright pistons and offset boiler. I know they were imported from the USA so may be the same class etc?

I think all of that style were built under Shay's patents, but by a number of manufacturers over a long period. If I remember rightly the Newnes ones were the largest built. There were few of them identical to each other, and never all that many.

The bogie drive meant that they had low axle loading for their tractive effort and no restriction on curve radius, but the gears and shafts meant they were expensive to build and maintain compared with conventional locos, but still a lot cheaper than upgrading the track to allow these. Hence only used on 'special' railways. Originally designed for temporary timber getting lines.

John

[Ausfree]

The driver certainly gave the whistle a hiding. First time I have seen that type of engine, certainly a complex driving mechanism.

Thanks for sharing, Ian!!:D:D

[Ausfree]

Ian, you got me curious, so I looked up good old Wikipedia.:D

Geared steam locomotive - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[robbotd5]

G day all.
Yes, the Shay is an interesting departure from the "norm" of steam locomotive design. As has been stated, they are designed for roughly laid, curvy and steep rail lines. I have to say that the American practice of sounding the whistle constantly and that bloody bell:twisted: is annoying to me. The fireman has got it easy, its oil fired, American engine men are lazy.:wasntme::)
There is another type of geared loco used in much the same conditions. Known as the Climax. Angled cylinders driven by Stephenson's valve gear driving a shaft which is geared to a drive shaft that drives the two 4 wheel bogies. There are both an operational Climax and a non operational Shay at the Puffing billy railway.
Here's a clip of the Puffing billy Climax 1694. She is wood fired.
Regards
Robbo

Climax 1694 Recommissioning at Puffing Billy - YouTube

[87County]

The maximum speed of the Shays on the Newnes railway was about 8 mph - it would have been an all day trip Newnes - Newnes Junction (nr Clarence) - Newnes.

I imagine there would have been a bit of gear noise from the bevel drives.

The book on the Newnes railway (Shays in the Valley) details how the Shays could cope with grades and curves that other types of loco would have been unable to use. The engineering experience gained on the Newnes railway helped with the design of the steep Tumut- Batlow railway (which was still in use until about 1980).

As far as the use in timber-getting regions in the US goes - I read somewhere that the spur lines were so temporary that timber rails were used to allow for easy redeployment to another site - has anyone else read this ?


Just googling - this is interesting with some pics of the real ones : http://web.aanet.com.au/bayling/shay.html

[JDNSW]

... - I read somewhere that the spur lines were so temporary that timber rails were used to allow for easy redeployment to another site - has anyone else read this ?


Just googling - this is interesting with some pics of the real ones : Myles Harris-Ayling's Shay (http://web.aanet.com.au/bayling/shay.html)

Wooden rails were used on many early railways, so I would be very surprised if they were not used on US timber getting railways. A slight advance was to fit an iron plate on top of the rail. I have seen timber rails used in sawmill tracks using winch/gravity in Australia in the 1950s near Tumbarumba.

John

[drivesafe]

In North America, the shays were one of the last steam locos types used in regular service, long after main line and branch line services were dieselised.

The shays were not only good with tight curves and steep inclines but they had huge pulling power, because of the low speed.

To give a better idea of their size, I scanned this from the Model Railroaders Steam Locomotive Cyclopedia.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1091.jpg

[JDNSW]

Just to point out they were not all that big, one of the sugar mills in Qld Used to have a shay on a pedestal out front - 2'6" gauge and other dimensions to match. Probably weighed under two tonnes. I seem to remember reading somewhere that it is now in a museum, but I saw it probably twenty years or more ago, can't remember which town.

John

[drivesafe]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that it is now in a museum

I think shays are a brilliant looking loco but have never seen one.

Does anybody know of one in a museum or the likes, anywhere in Australia?

[Blknight.aus]

isnt there one down where they hide puffing billy,

theres a model one that gets around at the granchester model railways.

[robbotd5]

Drivesafe. "Does anybody know of one in a museum or the likes, anywhere in Australia?"

Yep, there's one at Puffing Billy. You did not watch the clip I posted did you?:):):D
Regards
Robbo

[V8Ian]

Just to point out they were not all that big, one of the sugar mills in Qld Used to have a shay on a pedestal out front - 2'6" gauge and other dimensions to match. Probably weighed under two tonnes. I seem to remember reading somewhere that it is now in a museum, but I saw it probably twenty years or more ago, can't remember which town.

John
Proserpine???

[jackafrica]

Shay, Climax and Heisler were for me, the most interesting of narrow gauge railway locos ever.
They proliferated in the narrow gauge logging railways in the Pacific North west Coast of the USA and immortalised in photographic images by Darius Kinsey.

I've had the pleasure, some years ago to visit the USA and travel on a couple of the narrow gauge railroads in Colorado and New Mexico.
The Durango-Silverton and Cumbres-Toltec.

Had a special rail adventure back in 2001 in New York. But that's off topic being standard gauge and diesel.

Cheers,
Richard

[drivesafe]

Drivesafe. You did not watch the clip I posted did you?:):):D
Regards
Robbo

Hi Robbo and yes you’re right, I saw the heading about a CLIMAX so I didn’t watch the clip.

I have done so now, and now know where I will be visiting next time I’m down south.

Cheers and thanks.

[THE BOOGER]

There,s one not to far from you possibly the one JD was talking about:)

Shay Locomotive - Sunshine Coast Council (http://www.sunshinecoast.qld.gov.au/sitePage.cfm?code=heritage-shay)

[JDNSW]

There,s one not to far from you possibly the one JD was talking about:)

Shay Locomotive - Sunshine Coast Council (http://www.sunshinecoast.qld.gov.au/sitePage.cfm?code=heritage-shay)

Looking at the pictures I would say that this is certainly the one I remember, although it is a bit bigger than my memory. One feature I clearly remember, not shown in the pictures, is the exposed bevel gears on each axle being very wide, and with the teeth worn nearly off.

John

[Don 130]

Some years ago, we took our kids to a model railway at Galston. If I remember correctly, there was a shay there at the time, but of course, very small. I think the track is 4"gauge.

Hornsby Model Engineers - Home (http://www.hme.org.au)

Don.

[isuzutoo-eh]

There's a 2' gauge Shay very slowly under construction at the Illawarra Light Railway at Albion Park Rail, NSW. It uses 2' gauge bogies from a scrapped cane tram Shay, sister to the one posted above (Mapleton/Nambour), and various components from a pair of 2'6" gauge Shays recovered from QLD many years ago, that had been dynamited by scrappies to get the copper firebox out. The 2 cylinder engine unit is being built from some marine engine cylinder castings, crankshaft is finished, bogies restored, frames complete, boiler (from a 2' gauge Davenport loco) is sitting on the frames too. Lots of other projects to be completed first and four other steam locos to keep running!

The Wolgan Valley Shays were the only standard gauge Shays in Aus, #1 was a 65 tonner, #2 & #3 were 70 tonners and #4 a 90 tonner, the largest in Aus. After those four, the next largest was around 42 tons and 3'6" gauge, owned and operated by Bunnings in WA, back when they were a timber milling concern and not just a tool supermarket. I think that one started its working life in Tasmania on the North Mt Lyell Railway, along with a 20 ton Shay that ended up at Lahey's Tramway, Canungra, QLD.

There is also most of a Shay in private ownership in Melbourne, a 3' gauge 32 tonner originally from the Lloyd copper mines of Burraga in NSW, then later the Powelltown timber co operated it in Victoria. AFAIK this loco is only missing the bogies.
All bar the first proof of concept Shays were built by Lima. When the patents expired the Willamette engineering works built some very similar locomotives though with technological and servicing enhancements.
I think the smallest Shays ever built under patent were around 9 or 10 tons, the smallest in Aus was the 12 tonners of Mapleton, later Maroochy and Nambour.

The live steam Shay at Galston is 5" gauge and is based on the Wolgan Valley #2 or #3 Shay, but with #4's larger engine unit.

If you want weird and wonderful contraptions, google New Zealand Geared Locomotives, they were incredibly ingenius, with 16 wheel drive locomotives and a variety of cylinder layouts. There were a couple of internal combustion contraptions too, a pair of truck cabs welded back to back with a pair of 6 wheel powered bogies underneath for example.

[Ausfree]

Mark, you are an absolute gold mine of information!!!!:D:D

There done!!!

http://www.trainweb.org/nzgearedlocomotives/

[101 Ron]

The next time you are at Newnes walk north of old railway platform for 400mtrs.
Just to the west beside the old railway alinement is what looks like a old riveted and rusted water tank with a tree growing beside it.
it is in fact part of one of the old Shays.
careful inspection will show it is the top of the tender/water tank laying on it side.

[isuzutoo-eh]

Further to the tank that Ron wrote about, the bridge girders just below the glow worm tunnel are the main frames of Shay #1, you can see the cast iron truss rod mounts on them amongst other details.
The brass bell from, I think, number 3 was or is used in a church in Ainslie in the ACT and a few other parts (builder's plates/smokebox wheel) survive in private collections.

There are actually parts of a Shay or two dumped in a mainline railway embankment in QLD, but they are very much rotten and very hard to extract due to being under the railway!