Towage at the Ball

[crawfy]

Ok what is the go you guy's, what is the actual weight we can legally pull from the ball in our Disco's?
As if you go by the manual it is only 150kg!!!!!! How many caravan's do you know that have a shower fitted rate 150kg at the ball !!!! more like 300kg!!!!!!! What's the go a commodore is rated to 280kg at the ball my 300tdi has better suspension than a bloody Commodore, so what's LR's problem??? :twisted:

[Defender200Tdi]

Hi Crawfy

I must say that I completely understand your frustration. Unfortunately all series 1 Discos are limited to a Static Weight on the ball of 150kg, despite what may be printed on the towbar sticker (if it says anything different). :x I have seen this discussion many times now and it appears that in the UK trailers are set up with a much lighter load balance on the ball and the 150kg limit is not a problem over there. I don't know how they can tow like that, it just seems bloody dangerous to me! In Australia it is generally accepted (or required in some States) that the static weight is 9% or 10% of the trailer weight. That means the theoretical maximum trailer weight for your Disco is 1500kg. Or to put it another way, that Hayman Reese towbar you might have that has a plate on it that says 150kg static & 4000kg trailer weight, is an absolute joke. A 4000kg trailer with only 150kg on the towball is an accident just waiting to happen. 8O

Anyway, that doesn't solve your problem. The only solution is to use a load levelling hitch (or buy a series 2 Disco with a 250kg capacity).

If it's any consolation, my Defender also has a maximum static weight of 150kg. Landrover now advertise that limit to be 250kg for new Defenders, but someone I know of recently (within the last 12 months) took delivery of a new Defender and it has a factory sticker on it that says 150kg again!! :?

To irritate you a bit more, if that's possible, I recently checked the specs. of an 80 series Landcruiser and it has a static weight limit of 350kg with a maximum trailer weight of 3500kg. Stangely the static is exactly 10% of the total, who'd have thought eh? :roll: But is it really twice as good as a Defender for towing? Legally it is.


Paul style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[crawfy]

Doh :twisted:
Look's lke the Crawf will have to look at a Kimberley Camper!!!!!! 8)
Fell in love with one recently, but can't remember the weght at the ball?
Look's like she who must be obeyed isn't getting the Jayco she liked style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif
Gotta get lucky every now and then !!!!! 8)

[MylesC]

crawfy

Check a little further. The "around 10%" of aggregate trailer mass (ATM) on towball for towing "rule" is not "law" - it is the conventional wisdow on safe towing that is reflected in advice from State transport authorities across Australia. You might well find that a figure of around 7% is fine and safe (particularly if coupled with a weight distribution hitch) which would give you an ATM of around 2100 kg. That should be in the Jayco range. ATM is the loaded weight of your trailer as supported by its axel/s and the tow hitch. All this despite the 150 kg towball weight limit.

[Defender200Tdi]

Crawfy

All is not lost. As I mentioned, and so did Myles, the problem can be fixed by using a "load levelling device" or "weight distribution hitch" (depending on who you buy it from). Something like the one produced by Hayman Reese will do the job. My father purchased this very item about 18 months ago to solve the same problem for his Pajero with his Jayco caravan. From memory I think it cost around $600.

see here (http://www.haymanreese.com.au/consumer/products/wdh/productsindex.htm)

Myles

I follow your point and agree that 7% weight on the hitch might still be quite reasonable. However, many of the things we tow don't give us much opportunity to manipulate the hitch weight because they are constructed to balance about 10% on the hitch. Dad's Jayco from memory was about 180kg on the hitch unladen. Now I know that can be balanced by loading your gear at the back of the van to take some weight off the hitch, but it's far from the ideal way.


Paul style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[crawfy]

Um hey you guy's can't you see that the Crawf is keen on the Kimberly :wink: And the Jayco ( With shower!!!!!) just dosn't fit into the Crawfs dream towing unit!!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif She might like it, I'm payin for it!!! So when I explained the stuff about static weights and legalities of it ( left out the levelling stuff) thing's were lookin good for a KImberly style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif If she reads this stuff I might now have to look at the Jayco!! Doh style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[DiscoCam]

Excuse my ignorance guys but what are the ramifications to exceeding the static weight limit? Bouncy front wheels? Sudden loss of steering?

Cameron

[Defender200Tdi]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Excuse my ignorance guys but what are the ramifications to exceeding the static weight limit? Bouncy front wheels? Sudden loss of steering?[/b][/quote]

Hi Cameron

I'm sure our Landrovers can handle well in excess of the stated weight limit without any effect on drivability. The primary concern for me is simply that it will void your insurance if you have and accident.



Paul style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[shaunp]

I reckon the ball weight may be rated on those crappy looking factory bars that the poms use, they look pretty weak. I've got "trail boss" and it is stamped 175kg. I pull a Jayco swan camper van it has claimed weight of about 100kg but I reckon mine might be more with the load in it. It tows fine and hardly drops the rear of the car, I've got a set of standard height Kingsprings in it which are just a bit heavier than stock and probably lift it 15-20mm un loaded.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Originally posted by DiscoCam
Excuse my ignorance guys but what are the ramifications to exceeding the static weight limit? Bouncy front wheels? Sudden loss of steering?

Cameron

Just my thoughts here DiscCam,,,

Just about everything to do with towing has some form of "added margin for error"
As Defender200Tdi says the modern LR will happily exceed those weights pressed on a piece of tin.

You must consider those cold rainy nights, down a windey coast road with the missus driving and you asleep(only because its your turn :wink: )

its then you may need ALL of that margin.

Ive towed a LOT of trailers across SE Australia, mainly with cars on, and its usually guys that fly close to the wind that stuff up,,and its not always a money thing, mostly just lack of thought.


I can understand your thoughts on a Kimberly----- 8)

[shaunp]

Speaking of Kimberly,the mate Brad left at 4 am this morning for 10 weeks in the Kimberly. Wish I went with him.

[MylesC]

Crawfy, Cameron and Paul

I've been away for a few days and have just caught up with your postings. Load placement in caravans, tandem or single, require load balancing to get the ball weight right (within limits set by the manufacturer). Too heavy and braking and steering is affected adversely, too light and the tail wags the dog. Getting it right it just one of those things. While weight distribution systems like Hayman Reese help, there is no substitution for a properly distributed load to achieve the appropriate ball weight. The HR or other systems should not be used to compensate for a poorly distributed load. Crawfy, is 150 kg the only number mentioned in your manual for ball weight or is there some additional statement involved? I am curious on that one.

[Defender200Tdi]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>is 150 kg the only number mentioned in your manual for ball weight or is there some additional statement involved?[/b][/quote]

Hi Myles

That figure is unfortunately all there is. As I said before, this has been discussed a lot in the past because other owners have some concerns over the insurance side of towing. There are two threads in the Australian section of the LRE forum which also deal with this and are probably of interest to all. Note in particular the fact the 03 spec Defenders seem to be delivered with a sticker on them that limits the towball weight to 150kg, despite Landrover advertising 250kg.

Anyway, the two threads are here (http://www.lrenthusiastforum.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB7&Number=207482&page=&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1) and here (http://www.lrenthusiastforum.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB4&Number=122553&page=&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1).


Paul style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[Defender200Tdi]

Oooh, it gets even more interesting. 8O

here (http://www.lrenthusiastforum.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB3&Number=237660&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=)

I haven't read that in my owners manual. Maybe it's a USA thing. :?

I hope I haven't got $600 worth of Hayman Reese weight distribution hitch for nothing.


Paul style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[Pedro_The_Swift]

so, the problem is the FRAME/CHASIS is not strong enough?

8O :?

[DarrenW]

I have been through the silly saga of static ball weight over the last 6 months. I'm now legal but no exactly happy.

I bought a 20ft caravan in 2003 that weighs about 1900Kg fully loaded , ball weight about 190Kg.

I own a 300Tdi and knew from the outset that it would not be the most powerful vehicle to tow the van. I can't overtake at 100Kms per hour but its been around OZ twice now and I'll put up with the limitations....

After my first trip I noticed the sticker on my KMAR rear step says static ball weight 120Kg. I had already purchased the HAYMEN REECE weight distribution hitch but was told it doesn't actually change the ball weight. Still grapling with the technical side of that but surfice to say it levels the car perfectly.

Next step was to refer to the manual... it talks about 150Kg and some other stuff... cant be bothered going out to the car at the moment. Took it to a lawyer friend and expalined the issue. He confirmed that the statements were saying recommended load was 150Kg , but if you go more ensure you don't overload the rear axle. As I don't carry rear passengers and when towing the gears all in the caravan then I am definately not overloading the rear axle.

However.... the KMAR sticker creates the legal problem as they state MAX BALL LOAD 120Kgs. A potential insurance issue.

I rang around the tow bar manufacturers and the best I could find was the hitch sold by ARB which has a MAX ball wieght of 200Kg. $500+ later new hitch on the DISCO and I'm legal.

Note: the new Haymen Reece hitches are rated at 150Kg but I have seen some on the series I disco's that say 250Kg... not sure how this occurred.

Darren

[MylesC]

G'day

A little more information to share on this thread. I was talking to the Sales Manager of one of Australia's leading and respected manufacturers of off-road trailer hitches and suspensions systems the other day and in the conversation we talked about the ball weight issue. His view, based on a very long history in the business, was that closer to the 5% figure rather than the 10% was the better option for safe and comfortable towing.