Future defender ???

[Phoenix]

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/01_Defender-90_450.jpg

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/LandRoverDefender110_450.jpg

These were floating around LR chronicle and I thought i'd pinch em.

What do people think?

Oh, and I don't know if they are a magazines ideas or LR ideas. The accompanying article was in german.

[Phoenix]

it's hard to tell what it would look like in the flesh, but I like it 8)

[Defender200Tdi]

I'd be happy with that. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif Still has the unmistakable heritage, no-nonsense look about it, but it's modern at the same time.

where do I sign? :mrgreen:


Paul style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[Phoenix]

I reakon that it would do great things for defenders sales volume as well style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

Anyone know if there is any accuracy in these drawings :?: :wink:

[Expat]

Im salivating right now......

Phoenix , if you can copy that text (In German) I will give it a stab on translating.
Might be fairly basic , but will give it a whirl.

Can email me the text if its ok..

Cheers

[Phoenix]

German text, and it's in the mail to you as well expat. I tried using bablefish, but it didn't work all that well.

Land Rover: Boden gut machen mit neuen Offroadern
Mit einer Modelloffensive will Land Rover bis 2009 die Verkaufszahlen steigern. Zum Erneuerungsprogramm gehören der neue Discovery, der Range Rover Sport, Nachfolger für Freelander und Defender, ein Facelift für den Range Rover sowie eventuell ein völlig neuer Kompakt-Offroader.

Land Rover-Geschäftsführer Matthew Taylor peilt für 2004 rund 170.000 verkaufte Einheiten an (2003: 165.000), bis in fünf Jahren sollen daraus 200.000 bis 250.000 werden - eine Steigerung um immerhin 20 bis 50 Prozent. Die große Variable in der Voraussage rührt daher, dass die Wachstumsmärkte der Marke schwer einzuschätzen sind.

In den USA - der SUV- und Geländewagen-Hochburg schlechthin - ist Land Rover bislang nämlich nur ganz schwach vertreten und will sich dort ebenso wie im Mittleren und Fernen Osten noch enorm steigern. In Europa wiederum, wo die Land Rover-Position traditionell gefestigter ist, hängen die Steigerungsraten mehr davon ab, ob das Modellprogramm noch um einen kompakten Offroader unterhalb des Freelander ergänzt wird.

Früher sieben neue Modelle in 45 Jahren - heute fünf Neue in sechs Jahren
Dabei ist schon die momentan wogende Erneuerungswelle mächtiger als je zuvor in der Land Rover-Geschichte. Brachte die Firma vorher in 45 Jahren gerade mal sieben neue Modelle zu Wege, so sind es - der Ende 2001 vorgestellte Range Rover mit eingerechnet - heute innerhalb von nur sechs Jahren gleich fünf Neueinführungen.

Dazu zählen neben dem noch unter BMW-Ägide entwickelten Range Rover und dem neuen, auf der New York Auto Show vorgestellten Discovery (Markteinführung in Deutschland im November) der nun offiziell Range Rover Sport (Verkaufsstart im Sommer 2005) benannte kleinere Range, auf den die in Detroit gezeigte Studie Range Stormer bis auf die Viertürigkeit und die etwas höhere Karosserie formal bereits einen Vorgeschmack gab. Den Neuheiten-Reigen vervollständigen der 2006 zu erwartende Nachfolger des Freelander sowie 2007 die Neuauflage des Defender.

Dazwischen sind im Herbst 2005 größere Modellpflegemaßnahmen am Range Rover vorgesehen, der ja nun in Form des größer und technisch anspruchsvoller gewordenen Discovery einen aufstrebenden Rivalen aus dem eigenen Stall abwehren muss. Der facegeliftete Range Rover soll unter anderem das neue, elektronisch mit Fahrwerksabstimmung sowie Motor- und und Getriebesteuerung vernetzte Allradantriebssystem "Terrain Response“ erhalten, das verschiedene vorwählbare Modi für das Fahren auf Gras, Schnee, Schotter sowie im Gelände für das Überwinden von Sand, Schlamm, Furchen und Felsbrocken bereit hält.

Zudem ist auch daran gedacht, den bislang von BMW teuer zugekauften 4,4-Liter-V8 durch ein hauseigenes Triebwerk zu ersetzen. Mögliche Alternative wäre der Achtzylinder von Jaguar, der auf 4,6 Liter Hubraum gebracht werden könnte - denkbar auch mit Kompressor-Aufladung, um das Spektrum zwischen 300 und 400 PS abzudecken. Mittelfristig wird auch der von Ford und PSA entwickelte V8-Common-Rail-Turbodiesel im Range Rover Einzug halten.

Eventuell wird für eine ganz kleine (etwa 1.000 bis 2.000 Einheiten jährlich), aber besonders leistungshungrige und zahlungskräftige Klientel noch eine zirka 450 PS starke V12-Version des Range Rover aufgelegt - entweder mit dem Aston-Martin-Zwölfzylinder oder dem ganz neuen V12, der im Ford-Konzern für die Nobelmarken entwickelt wird.
Neuer Defender auch mit Luftfederung und Terrain-Response-Allradantriebssystem
Land Rover setzt bei seiner Programmerneuerung aus Kostengründen auf eine Gleichteilestrategie. Denn Discovery, Range Rover Sport und der nächste Defender ruhen auf einer gemeinsamen Plattform, die intern T5 genannt wird. Das bedeutet, dass der nächste Defender ebenfalls rundum mit Luftfederung ausgerüstet sein wird und natürlich auch das "Terrain Response-Allrad-System“ erhalten wird.

Wahrscheinlich wird es den neuen Defender wie den alten wieder in drei unterschiedlich langen Ausführungen geben - konkret soll die Neuauflage in den nächsten zwölf Monaten verabschiedet werden, um Ende 2007 in Serie gehen zu können. Möglicherweise aber wird das alte Modell zumindest in einer Version für die Dritte Welt noch eine Zeit lang parallel zum Neuen weiter gebaut.

Um in Europa langfristig Boden gut zu machen, braucht Land Rover eigentlich noch einen Kompakt-Offroader im Stil von Toyota RAV4 und Honda CR-V - ein Feld, das bald ja auch von Opel beackert wird. Exakte Pläne für solch einen Baby Land Rover gibt es zwar noch nicht, aber ernsthafte Überlegungen dazu. PAG-Chef Mark Fields: "Das Problem ist die Kostenseite. Das Auto muss sich rechnen, andererseits aber auch glaubhaft Land Rover-Tugenden wie hohe Funktionalität und Geländetauglichkeit verkörpern - ein Spagat, der nicht einfach zu bewerkstelligen ist.“

Leichter zu stemmen wäre das Projekt natürlich mit einer oder mehreren Partnermarken aus dem Ford-Konzern. Volvo beispielsweise will ebenfalls noch ins Segment der Leicht-SUV´s einsteigen. Erste Kontakte zwischen den Schweden und Land Rover wurden bereits geknüpft. Hier dürfte sich eine Entscheidung im Lauf der nächsten 18 Monate anbahnen.

Die Aufbruchstimmung bei Land Rover macht sich aber nicht nur durch neue Modelle sondern auch durch innovative markengerechte Extras bemerkbar. Dazu gehört ab 2005 die so genannte Adventure Cam - eine Miniatur-Videokamera, die sich ganz nach Belieben außen an der Karosserie anbringen lässt und ihre Bilder auf den Navigations-Monitor im thingypit überträgt.

Je nach Einsatzzweck lässt sich damit beispielsweise das rückwärts Rangieren mit einem Anhänger im Schlepp überwachen oder offroad das Manövrieren an steilen Bergaufpassagen erleichtern, wenn der Blick nur noch gen Himmel reicht, und nur vorn montierte Kamera noch ausloten kann, welche Hindernisse sich direkt vor dem Bug auftürmen, oder wann es über eine Kuppe wieder abwärts geht.

THere was also this pic of what appears to be a freelander

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/MSD_SmallLandRover_450.jpg

[Gaz69]

I like it. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif The basic defender shape is still there and it looks mean as ****!!!! :evil: I hope with Fords backing they put something decent into the design. I personally would love to see them go head to head with the other main players in Oz with a competitive package that the general public would love to buy and not enthusiasts like most of us!!!! I reckon the should put an aussie in charge of engineering. Bugger the bean counters. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[Expat]

Will be there with a translation from German in a while..

Promise...

Reading through it quickly though it looks as if Defender is earmarked 2007 change..will be back to clarify.

Nothing in there about the piccies though , on first glance that is.

[VladTepes]

I like it :!:

Well, make the windows a bit higher, and I like it.

It better come in a ute version. but. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif


Mmmmmm, Defender.... ambrosia style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

If they fix the interior up to be more like a Toyosan etc (ie ergonomically good - the main complaint of testers) then EVERYONE will want one.

[bigbugga]

Agree Vlad.

I would have a defender tomorrow if it had a better fit.

Not good with ya right shoulder smashed in by the piller and your left knee stabed.

apart from that I like the def's

[Grimace]

Some 16" rims and 38" rubber with a 2" suspension and body lift 8) thats my next car

[Goblin]

Mmmmm 2007. The lease on my current Defender finishes in 2007.

Expat. Please tell us more.

[VladTepes]

But 2007 is LR speak means "some time in the distant future if and when we can be bothered about it".... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif

[Gaz69]

No-one had any luck with the translation yet from german?? My german is as bad as my english. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif Curious to know when we get a new defender? Might have to build my own if its a few years away? :idea:

Gaz

[bigbugga]

Not the best transation but it was free and makes some sence :?

Country Rover: ground well make wants with new Offroadern with a model offensive country Rover until 2009 the sales figures increase. To the renewal program belong the new Discovery, the ranks Rover sport, successor for Freelander and Defender, a Facelift for the ranks Rover as well as possibly a compact-Offroader new totally.

Country Rover-manager Matthew Taylor peilt for 2004 round 170,000 sold should become units at (2003: 165.000), into five years from that 200,000 to 250,000 - an increase around nevertheless 20 to 50 percent. The large variable in the prediction stirs therefore that the growth markets of the sign are to be estimated heavily.

In the USA - the SUV- and Geländewagen-Hochburg simply -, country Rover is represented until now namely only very weakly and yet enormously wants to increase itself there just as as in the mediator and distances East. In Europe again where the countries Rover-position is more traditionally more consolidated, depend the increase rate more of them whether the model program is expanded yet by a compact Offroader beneath the Freelander.

Earlier seven new models in 45 years - today five new in six years at the same time is already that wogende renewal wave momentary more powerful than ever before in the countries Rover-story. The firm brought are previously in 45 years just once seven new models too ways, it - the ends 2001 introduced ranks Rover with included - today within only six years immediately five new introductions.

In addition Rover count next to the ranks developed yet under BMW-Ägide and the new Discovery introduced on the New York car show (launch in Germany in November) that now officially ranks Rover sport (sale start in the summer 2005) named littler ranks on which the of study shown in Detroit ranks Stormer gave up to the Viertürigkeit and the somewhat higher car body formally already a foretaste. The 2006 successor to be expected of the Freelander complete the novelty-round as well as 2007 the new levy of the Defender.

In between 2005 larger model care measures are planned in the autumn at the rank Rover, that must defend now in form the more largely and technically demanding become Discovery an aufstrebenden rival out of the characteristic stable. The facegeliftete ranks Rover the new should networked receive among other things, electronically with load work voting as well as motor control and and transmission control Allradantriebssystem "grounds Response“, holds the modes different area codes cash for the going on grass, snow, crushed rock as well as in the terrain for the overcoming of sand, mud, furrow and rock chunk ready.

Moreover is kept in mind also to replace the 4,4-Liter-V8 expensively bought in addition until now by BMW by a company-internal engine. Possible alternative would be brought become could the respect cylinder by jaguar, that on 4.6 liter Hubraum - conceivably also with compressor-charge in order to uncover the spectrum between 300 and 400 HP. Medium-term also the V8-Common-Rail-Turbodiesel developed by Ford and PSA in the rank Rover entrance will hold.

Possible is put on for an entirely little (about 1,000 to 2,000 units annual), but especially achievement hungry and substantial clientele another approximately 450 HP of strong V12-Version of the rank Rover - either with the Aston-Martin-twelve cylinder or the entirely new V12, that is developed in the Ford-group for the noble sign. New Defender also with air resilience and grounds-Response-Allradantriebssystem country Rover sets in its program renewal out of costs reason on a same part strategy. For Discovery, ranks Rover sport and the next Defender rest on a joint platform, that is named internally T5. That means
that the next Defender will be equipped also all around with air resilience and naturally also that is received "grounds Response-all wheel-system“.

Probably it becomes the new Defender as well as the old again in three differently long executions give - concretely should the new levy in the next twelve months dismissed become in order to be able to go end 2007 in series. Possibly however the old model further is constructed at least in a version for the third world another time long parallel to the new.

In order to make ground in Europe long-termed well, country Rover needs actually another compact-Offroader in the style of Toyota RAV4 and Honda CR-V - a field that will till soon also of Opel. It gives exact plans for such one babies countries Rover to be sure not yet, but earnest considerations in addition. PAG-boss mark Fields: "the problem the costs side is. The car must calculate itself, on the other hand however also plausible country Rover-virtues as well as high functionality and embody terrain usefulness - a Spagat to manage that not simply is.“

More easily could be braced the project natural with an or several partner signs out of the Ford-group. Volvo for example wants to get into also yet into the segment of the easily-SUV´s. First contacts between the Sweden and country Rover already were attached. Here a decision in the course of the next 18 months would be allowed to develop itself.

The departure disposition in country Rover makes separate itself however not only through new models also through Innovative sign just Extras noticeably. In addition the so named Adventure Cam belongs from 2005 - a miniature-video camera that can be mounted entirely at will outside at the car body and transfers its pictures to the navigation-monitor in the thingypit.

According to use purpose, that can be supervised therewith for example backwards ranking with a follower in the train or ease offroad the maneuvering at steep uphill passages if the view passes only gene sky, and can only ahead mounted camera yet ausloten, which hindrances directly before the bow auftürmen, or when it goes itself over a crest again downward.

[Gaz69]

Thanks BB,
From that i can get the general jest of the story. Typical Landrover the defender is on the back burner for everything else to be done. Oh well might build my own on what i have allready got.

Cheers Gaz

[VladTepes]

BB can I assume from that translation that you studied French at school ? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

You googled the bugger, didn't ya !



Originally posted by the ridiculous article BB posted above
a compact Offroader beneath the Freelander.


8O Why :?: :?

If it's beneath a Freelander, then it's beneath me :!:

[bigbugga]

Originally posted by VladTepes
BB can I assume from that translation that you studied French at school ? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

You googled the bugger, didn't ya !



Originally posted by the ridiculous article BB posted above
a compact Offroader beneath the Freelander.


8O Why :?: :?

If it's beneath a Freelander, then it's beneath me :!:

I used a online translator, and it was free, makes a little sence if you have a ball pin hammer handy

[Expat]

Guys..

I know I promised to give it the once over....but I had to dissapear for a tad..in fact a bit longer than a tad...overseas and all that mularky.

If you still need this doing then gissa shout.

Im back in the arse end of the anglophile world again so should have some time to have a look and rejig if req.

[Phoenix]

I don't know that we ever had more than a rough translation. If you want to have a look to see if it sais anything interesting go ahead style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[Goblin]

The few interesting bits I caught were:
Sharing the new disco3 chassis (sub chassis) meaning all-round independant air suspension and the new terrain-response system.

Looks like the live axle will leave the marque after all.

Pitty that the only live axle based cars of any note will be Jappo ones :cry:

Doesn't seem right when you have to flick a dial to select what type of road you are driving on and the car does the rest....

Might make the last of the "true" defenders worth quite a bit in the years to come ????

[rmp]

Originally posted by Goblin
Doesn't seem right when you have to flick a dial to select what type of road you are driving on and the car does the rest....

Might make the last of the "true" defenders worth quite a bit in the years to come ????

Couldn't agre more, I like a proper low range shift.

The thought did occur to me, as I signed up for a 2004 Defender, that there wouldn't be many more live-axle, seperate chassis vehicles sold! Once the Patrol and Defender goes that pretty much leaves the 75/9 Series. Maybe they'll then put coils all round.

[VladTepes]

Live axles are :twisted: evil :twisted: and should be destroyed.

Luckily, this happens easily. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif 8O

Seriously though, I'd hate to see the end of the live axle Landy. That would mean no new Defender for me (just a recent 2nd hand one, one day - a TD5 would be nice!).

Coz I don't want to buy a Jap one.

[medic455]

Vlad's right (did I just sat that?? :? ) it would be sad to see the end of the live axle Landrover
It would be even sadder to see the end of the Defender(Read real Landrover here {well almost anyway, it would be real if it had leaf springs}) concept Its what many like about Landrover's

But all may not be lost, while the saftey nazi's and greenies are trying to legislate 4x4 into history it is pleasing to see that Landrover's parent company is doing somthing good (did I just say that about Ford :evil: )

These poor quality photo's scanned from a recent Landrover mag show F--d's new Bronco concept vehicle and if you ever wanted to know what F--d wanted rover for this has to be part of it 8O

Look's like the F--d boy's have poking around in the Landrover design room

and I can't get the photos to post here :evil: :evil: :evil: :oops: :oops: :oops: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

HELP :oops: :oops: :? :?

[Defender200Tdi]

I don't really care one way or another for live axles. As long as the system (independant, live or whatever) works at least as well offroad as the existing arrangement, then fine. To date, the main beef with independant suspensions is their bias towards on road rather than offroad ability, but that doesn't mean the bias can't be switched around, whatever the system used.

I'm also not fussed about the retention of a full chassis or not. Once again, so long as the result is there, I don't care how it's achieved. What I do care about, from a Defender standpoint, is that the vehicle to inherit the illustrious heritage is as serious and singleminded in delivering the utilitarian strength and offroad ability the model is so famous for. If Ford can still deliver that, as well as povide better on road abilities and creature comforts etc, well, fine, I'll take it. As long as it's reliable, I won't care what they use to achieve it either. What I don't want to see is the trade off in the former for the latter.

I don't subscibe to the idea that technology and reliability are mutually exclusive either. I believe electronics can be reliable and we don't need to be held to ancient mechanical injection systems, carburettors and cart springs to be confident that the vehicle will get us home. It just takes development. Remember the early eighties when everyone said EFI would never be as reliable as a carby. Back then it was probably true, but not many people are so afraid of simple EFI now.

If Ford can go further and provide us with decent engines (which start with 6 cylinders and go up from there!) as well as a dealer network that isn't so far up itself it's gone all crosseyed, then I'm ready to sign right now.


Paul style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[Phoenix]

http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/happy/1074.gif

well said Defender200Tdi style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif . I completely agree. The jeep cherokee is a good example, the old model was a solid off roader, not it might be nice on road, but it is considered a lightweight 4x4, or even a softroader in it's new guise.

On the other hand, the independent LR3 promises to be one of the most capible 4x4's seen to date (yet to be proven, but i'm sure it will).

As long as the defender stays true to it's utilitarian roots, and is recognisable as a defender, i'll be buying one (when I can afford it that is :roll: ).

[medic455]

Exactly, it is that utiliarian, militaty robustness that makes the Defender what it is and to stray too far from that would result in a defender in name only :evil:

If you can't hose it out, strip it down or fix it easily and quickly in the middle of no-where then it's not a Defender style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

I have no probs with independant systems (aaaahhhhh HUMMV :twisted: ) it's just sad to see all the makers heading blindly down the gadget and techy track style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif

A bit more comfort would be good but does it have to be at the expence of the things that make the Defender what it is :?



ps there is no better sight to see in your driveway than a Landrover and one of GMH's finest big saloons 8) 8)

[VladTepes]

True, true true.


Originally posted by medic455

ps there is no better sight to see in your driveway than a Landrover and one of GMH's finest big saloons 8) 8)

Umm, no. A LandRover and an Italian motorcycle... then you'd be talking !

(of course if you had a series landy you'd have to have an old trumpy bonneville to match !)

[medic455]

A series Landy goes without saying 8) and I like your taste in bike's (but its hard to get Her indoors and the 2 teen ankle biters on a bike) :twisted:

Any how I have given up trying to post my slack pic's and found a couple of links to good photo's of said Ford product

www.ford-trucks.com/news/2004/news2004-1.html

and

www.auto123.com/en/info/news/roadtest,view,ford.spy?artd=20285&pg=1

this second one gives a good scale example, with a bloke standing beside said beast

If the new Defender looked like this, with a high/low box and a little less carpet and TV's I'd have a misses and to kids for sale in a flash (to pay for it):twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :wink:

[Moses]

I like it too. Definite heritage lines. But Vlad is right. What is the point in yet another station wagon? If LR drop the ute models, that would seriously reduce the marketability of the vehicle.

I'd trade my Disco in on one, if the new Defenders are still as ballsy off road as the current ones are. That is one of my main selection criteria. If it isn't going to go well off road, I don't want to know about it. No point forking out 50-60 gorillas and having to spend another 20 on diff locks, lift kits, suspension fit-outs and engine mods just to get the thing to make it through a mud puddle without needing rescuing!

The current Defenders and Discos go very well off road, right out of the box. And the Rangies too, I 'spose - even with their gizmology.

[medic455]

Again this is a thread from about 8 months ago, If it looks like the drawings then I will be gutted, However if Ford want to develop the Defender then badge engineer it and sell it as a Bronco as well I won't mind (...cause all Landrover lovers will know the truth.. :twisted: :twisted: ). After all Ford has a history of trying to sell good 4x4 under it's own lable (...the last one was the Patrol as a Maverick, wasn't it ??...Vlad??.. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: )

[Ace]

Originally posted by medic455
Again this is a thread from about 8 months ago, If it looks like the drawings then I will be gutted, However if Ford want to develop the Defender then badge engineer it and sell it as a Bronco as well I won't mind (...cause all Landrover lovers will know the truth.. :twisted: :twisted: ). After all Ford has a history of trying to sell good 4x4 under it's own lable (...the last one was the Patrol as a Maverick, wasn't it ??...Vlad??.. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: )

I think it is hard to tell from sketches as the real deal always looks quite different. It would be good if they bring out a few concepts for us to drool over between now and then, just to test the waters. Matt