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Defender200Tdi
30th April 2004, 10:33 AM
This has been talked about a lot recently, being the cause of the mainshaft spline wear for LT77 & early R380 gearboxes. I'm about to remove mine to check whether the previous owner fitted a cross drilled gear or an oil slinger to prevent the problem occurring in the future, when he had the gearbox rebuilt. I'm betting that neither option was done, so, I will probably need to drill the gear.

I understand that a pair of 10mm holes opposite each other will do the job, but where on the gear should they be drilled?

http://www.aulro.com/albums/album37/Input_Gear.jpg

I've never seen the later gear in the flesh, so to speak, but I imagine the blank section on the PTO side of the main toothed bit would be the right place (where the red arrow is)? Anyone know for sure?


Paul style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

VladTepes
30th April 2004, 05:58 PM
A bloody good question Paul, and one I have been wondering about myself.

Has anyone got a bloody good answer ?

shaunp
30th April 2004, 06:47 PM
The gear has 4 x 10mm holes drilled 1/2 way between the drive gear and the pto dogs. The gears are hard but you can drill them with a massonary drill bit. Buy a couple drills and sharpen them like a normal twist drill but leave a little tungsten tip proud. Use a drilling compound and take your time. You need to be carefull as you break through as the drill can get caught in the spline and break. You can buy really flash drill bits for about $80 but they break just the same. The tip on a Massonary bit works fine and they are cheap. I've done a few using this method.

Defender200Tdi
4th May 2004, 10:05 AM
Thanks for the reply Shaun. I took my input gear out over the weekend and discovered that it has not been cross drilled and there is no oil feeder plate there either. The gearbox was rebuilt before I bought the vehicle and the mainshaft does look new. The splines are still perfect at this stage. I've sent the gear off to get four 10mm holes EDM machined into it during this week since I can get it done cheaply, :wink: and it'll save me buggering up a box full of tungsten tip drills trying to do it myself. :oops:


Paul style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

VladTepes
4th May 2004, 10:19 AM
Take a couple of pics before you whack it back in there, old boy !

shaunp
6th May 2004, 10:48 AM
When you put it back together fill the transfer box with some Penrite synth 10/10th race 75/90, it comes in 2.5L bottle just enough and you can forget about it.

Defender200Tdi
10th May 2004, 05:15 PM
OK, job done. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif After receiving the input gear back from 'friend of a friend' who organised the holes to be put in it, it looked like this:

http://www.aulro.com/albums/album37/Pict0047.jpg

Sorry about the blurry photo, but I couldn't get hold of the digital camera for the weekend and had to resort to stoneage technology. You can still make out the 10mm holes that were EDM machined into it though (there are four). The best bit about the EDM process is that it leaves absolutely perfect holes with no burrs or anything to clean up. 8)

As I mentioned in another post, I had the transfer case out to replace the input seal. It was then that I discovered the twits who had rebuilt the gearbox had stuffed the seal collar rather badly, probably by not using a proper tool to remove it from the shaft. :x Amazingly, it wasn't actually leaking, but I knew if I put it back like that it soon would. :roll: The easiest solution was to put a Speedi-sleeve on the collar. That way I wouldn't have to remove the collar, and the Speedi-sleeve would probably give me a better surface than a new collar anyway (as well as being less than $30). :wink:

This is what the Speedi-sleeve looks like installed on the collar:

http://www.aulro.com/albums/album37/Pict0046.sized.jpg

You can also see a bit of the remote selector housing, which turned out to be the main source of my oil leak. Note the plentiful use of (blue) silastic as well as a new gasket, just to be sure.

I've only clocked up about 30km since the job was done, so it's too early to tell whether I've been successful or not. So far (fingers crossed) there is no sign of any further leaks.

Thanks to the warning of Defute I took particular care to try and not stuff up the new seal when putting the transfer case back in. The best tip I can give for this is to leave the input gear and PTO cover etc off until the transfer case is back on the gearbox. Also remove the handbrake drum and backing plate (it's only 4 bolts plus a clevis pin). This all does two things: firstly, by removing the hanbrake assembly the transfer case is a lot lighter to lift and it's also shorter, making it easier to manoeuvre inplace, secondly, not having the input gear installed gives you more lattitude to get things lined up without having to mesh with the splines at the same time. What you don't want to do is let the bloody thing drop a bit at the last moment and stuff the seal on the shaft whilst you're lining it up!

Putting the input gear in and the handbrake assemby back on is really no more difficult with the transfer box on the vehicle because there's plently of room to get to everything.

Thanks also to shaunp for advising where on the gear the holes should be.

Anyway, that's how it all went for me. As I said, fingers crossed, I should have a completely oil leak free Defender now, but then again...


Paul style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

VladTepes
12th May 2004, 11:55 AM
Damn I wish I could do that mechaniocal stuff.
Would save me a fortune :!:

Looks like a nice tidy job, mate.

Defender200Tdi
12th May 2004, 12:43 PM
Vlad,

You can easily do the input gear mod yourself, without taking the transfer box out of the vehicle. It's just a matter of removing the PTO cover and the mainshaft input bearing housing (six bolts total), hoiking the input gear out and getting the holes whacked in it. You can do it like me and get someone with an EDM facility to blast the holes through for you, probably less than $100 if you pay full retail, less for cash. :wink:

Sticking the gear back in is straightforward, just remember that if there is a gasket between the transfer case and the bearing housing, you must put a new gasket back on, whether you use silicone as well or not. If there wasn't a gasket there, you must not put a gasket on, just use silicone. This is because the bearing pre-load is set by the thickness of the gasket (or it's absence), unless you want to be buggering around with a dial indicator and re-shimming the thing.

I have a pdf of the LT230 manual if you ever want it to give it a go.


Paul style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

sclarke
28th February 2005, 10:26 PM
Great Stuff.
What is a EDM???

I'll yank mine and go down to a local engineering firm if i know what a EDM is??

Regards
Steve

Defender200Tdi
1st March 2005, 11:51 AM
EDM = Electro Discharge Machining, otherwise known as Spark Erosion. If I understand the process correctly, the part is suspended in an electrolyte fluid and an electrical currect is used to 'wash away' the metal in the precise shape required. It's very effective for this sort of thing because it doesn't heat affect the surrounding metal, and leaves no burrs etc. (EDM is used often nowadays for cutting the rifling in barrels because of the smooth finish it produces.)


Paul style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

sclarke
1st March 2005, 12:51 PM
Hi,
Who did yours? i'd be keen to ship it to SA if they are a good price.

Defender200Tdi
1st March 2005, 03:47 PM
Steve

It was done by a mate-of-a-mate for a slab of beer (that 'orrible VB stuff), style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif but there'll be plenty of places in Melb that will do it for you. I would expect to pay the best part of $100 officially, but surely a 'cash deal' :wink: would be significantly less.


Paul style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

sclarke
1st March 2005, 03:51 PM
Snow problem...

shaunp
1st March 2005, 09:28 PM
You can drill it your own with $15 worth of drills from Bunnings.

sclarke
1st March 2005, 09:41 PM
You can do it yourself, but i dont have a drill press.
i'm finding out prices to see if i'll do it or let them do it.

sclarke
2nd March 2005, 02:26 PM
Has anyone priced a New Gear with factory cross drilled??
I just priced one......
In Aust about $450

Direct from the UK..... $190-$210 and thats with Postage

Cheap if you think about it.

sclarke
2nd March 2005, 09:33 PM
Mine is Buggered as is the output shaft of the LT77

Not Fair............... :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

sclarke
7th March 2005, 01:27 PM
Well after finding out mine was stuffed i thought overhaul time.
So i'm going to do the gear and seals/gaskets in the transfer, Main shaft and seals in the LT77S, Clutch (replacing with 130, its heavier) and rear main seal.
They dont leak, but id be stupid not to do them all.

Clutch was done not long ago, but i dont want to pull it down to have to do it again in 30,000km.

So Ching Ching Time...
Prices have been good so far from Karcfaft.

1 STC1889 [B] MAINSHAFT - L/ROVER (LT77)(H>) 330.35
1 RTC6797 [B] GASKET SET - G/BOX - L/ROVER (LT77) 19.64
1 FTC2957 <A> CLUTCH LEVER ARM - L/ROVER DEF+DISC+R/ROVER(PRESSED STEEL) 58.44
1 RTC3890 [B] GASKET SET - G/BOX TRANSFER CASE - L/ROVER (LT230) 37.12
1 FTC5089 [B] GEAR - TRANSFER - M/SHAFT - L/ROVER (LT230)(26 TEETH)(32.7MM) 206.98
1 HK9773## CLUTCH KIT - L/ROVER 200+300 TDI (VALEO)(H DUTY) 455.81
1 HK9773# CLUTCH KIT - L/ROVER 200+300 TDI (VALEO) 357.00
1 HK9773 CLUTCH KIT - L/ROVER 200+300 TDI (BORG+BECK) 287.67
1 R8566L [B] BUSH - SPIGOT - L/ROVER 2.25+200+300TDI+TD5 3.09
1 ERR2532 [B] OIL SEAL - CRANK - REAR - L/ROVER 200 TDI+S3 5MAIN BRG 25.34

Steve

Defender200Tdi
7th March 2005, 02:09 PM
Does that gasket set include the O ring for the transfer box intermediate shaft? If not, it's worth doing as well. If it's not leaking already it will do shortly after you put the box back in. Guess how I know! :roll:

The only difference between the 130 clutch and the standard jobbie is the diameter of the driven plate. The pressure plate (and hence clamping pressure) is the same, just over a slightly larger surface area.

Sounds like you've got some fun ahead of you. If you need to increase your repertoire of swear words let me know. I have a huge list I went through last time. :wink:



Paul style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

sclarke
7th March 2005, 02:17 PM
Mmmmm
Dont remind me...
1st job is the timing belt. Easy as the disco one was just done.

Then when i sell one of my crap heaps i'll have the $$ to do the Box and Transfer.

Yes Clutch wise the driven plate is larger thats it.
Clutch is suppose to only be newish. so i'll look when its out.

how heavy is the Box?? transfer will be lighter.
I might butter up a mate to use his hoist. i prefer my workshop, but i hate doing G/boxes.

Ohh how much room is there around the bell housing?

Steve

Defender200Tdi
7th March 2005, 02:43 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>how heavy is the Box?? transfer will be lighter.
I might butter up a mate to use his hoist. i prefer my workshop, but i hate doing G/boxes.

Ohh how much room is there around the bell housing? [/b][/quote]

Only removed trans box & remote selector housing on mine. Didn't need to remove the gearbox (yet :roll: ). Many of the UK blokes reckon engine out is the easiest way, but our A/C systems make that pretty difficult.

Speaking of A/C, that'll be a shock when you go to do the timing belt. You'll need to remove 2 head bolts to get the compressor mount off, so that you can take the timing cover off. It's a nervous time cracking open a couple of head bolts out of torque sequence and hoping the thing doesn't warp when you button it all back up. 8O Consider also, the A/C was installed in Aust and there's no way the installer would have replaced the head gasket and torqued things up properly when the A/C was put in. This means it's all been undone and re-torqued out of sequence at least once before already! 8O


Heads bolts through A/C compressor bracket:

http://www.aulro.com/albums/album37/IMGP0209.sized.jpg

Just shows that LR Aust can out-dumb anything Solihull comes up with!


Paul

sclarke
7th March 2005, 03:17 PM
Bugger.....
Ohh well, time to adapt the plate so i dont have to do it like that next time...

sclarke
29th March 2005, 09:17 AM
OK Back to the Gear issue.
I replaced just the Gear as i could not afford the $2k to have the lt77s and Lt230 out and fixed.
Used it on a 1500km trip over easter and Guess what... its better.... Funny that.

I got a later cross drill and had it shimmed corectly, all up cost $275.

Cheap...

Now to fix that timing belt and those seats do get hard after 8 hours...