threat to de-register tradies with friends/ connections to bikies

[bob10]

From the courier mail, Sat. Jan 11.


"Every tradie in Qld. will have their backgrounds checked by Police in a bid to wipe out bikies in the building industry. Plumbers, builders, & electricians have been given 6 months by the State Gov. to relinquish any ties- or even friendships - they have with bikies , or be deregistered. New laws to take effect in July also mandate that Police will have to share criminal intelligence with gov. regulators, who license the blue-collar workers. " It goes on to say the new legislation will come into effect in July, but police have already started background checks and informing those who have possible suspect associations. Amendments to the Qld. Building Services Authority Act [ QBSAA] & the Electrical Safety Act [ESA] show that police will determine who is a prohibited person- defined in the legislation as a member of a criminal association or an office bearer.


How many innocent people will be caught up in this, I wonder. Fair enough, weed out the crims., but there are already existing laws to do that. Now is the time for those who haven't read " Three crooked Kings", by Matthew Condon , to do so. The book documents the rise of corruption in Police & political ranks, in Qld, from 1940 to 1976. His second book, " All Fall Down", covers the period up to Fitzgerald. I make no comment, but every Qlder should read these books. Bob

[Chucaro]

I am glad that in my time in Qld I was not there when Joh was in power and left before this totalitarian government is in place.

[incisor]

the electrical trades union is blowing up about this creating a ruckus

hopefully the truth will lie between what the etu is saying and what the government is postulating...

i hope their information is a lot more accurate than that used to declare the shed next door a bikie hangout

next door still hasnt got an apology or an official clearance i believe....

[Nick S]

"Beautiful one day, police state the next"
Now who was it that said not to worry about it and that this legislation was only going to be used to get rid of the criminal bikie gangs? Wonder who will be next, health workers, accountants, lawyers.....

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I just hope that the challenges to the legislation get to the High Court of Australia soon so they can get back to prosecuting people for actual criminal activity instead of lazy policing by criminalising whole groups of people by association.

BTW, I have no problem with criminal record checks and working with children checks, so long as it is relevant to the employment activity the person undertakes. If they are entering your home then you'd like to know they are not a criminal.

[disco 3 door]

Next will be all retail employees for selling bike CLUB members products. This done by association.

[Hay Ewe]

Next will be all retail employees for selling bike CLUB members products. This done by association.

This is rediculus!
creating a whole other 'population'.
So what if the bloke who comes to fix my plumbing rides a harley and has tats?
he chooses to spend his free time with people that he likes and of the similar lifestyle and culture.

Its no different from me spending my free time with my mountian biking buddies, as long as we do a good job, a proper job, and are able to hold security clearance as required for the job, whats the problem?

Hay Ewe

[Mick_Marsh]

Hey, Inc.
Perhaps you should pre empt the next round on laws and ban from this site all Queenslanders. Save them from being associated.

[bob10]

I wouldn't be too flippant, if it works here, it may come to you, Already NSW Police are complaining bitterly that they do not have move on laws for bikies, with chapters pushed from Qld. setting up just over the border. Interesting times ahead. Bob

[nugge t]

Uniform laws across all states and law enforcement co-operating would be a great start.

Read a book by a bikie informer who stated that because each state police force was so busy looking after they own patch, that the bikies would do things like fly 2 blokes to Vic, murder someone, then drive the body and dump it in NSW.

From what I have read and talking to police friends, these guys we so cutely call "bikies" are really organised crime and should be treated and pursued as such.

[mattadelaide1975]

Anti-Association laws have been tried here in South Australia (I think we were one of the first).

Anyhow when they did it here in SA, we had a very long conversation at a General Meeting at our RSL, due to the number of veterans that ride harleys we have in our Sub-Branch. the SA laws would have lumped us in as having criminal associations (who knows which of our veterans are invloved with "outlaw" motorcycle gangs.)

This is a ridiculous way of running a state/nation... We already have enough laws, why not give the authorities enough powers to enact the current laws, rather than use a broad brush to capture everyone in the one swoop, even the innocent.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Uniform laws across all states and law enforcement co-operating would be a great start.

<snip>

From what I have read and talking to police friends, these guys we so cutely call "bikies" are really organised crime and should be treated and pursued as such.We already have laws sufficient to prosecute crime without criminalising particular groups in the community.

Why should a Vietnam vet who rides a bike be caught up in this legislation because he has a beer in the RSL with another Vietnam vet who joined and resigned from a defined illegal bikie gang years before.

All I can say is bring on the High Court challenges.

[Chucaro]

Stop the Bike People!! :p
Any of them without papers should be send to Norfolk island for processing.

[bob10]

Uniform laws across all states and law enforcement co-operating would be a great start.

Read a book by a bikie informer who stated that because each state police force was so busy looking after they own patch, that the bikies would do things like fly 2 blokes to Vic, murder someone, then drive the body and dump it in NSW.

From what I have read and talking to police friends, these guys we so cutely call "bikies" are really organised crime and should be treated and pursued as such.


Your first point, wharfies have been doing that for years. I had relatives on the wharves, they said the number of missing people in the foundations of buildings would surprise you. The second point, Laws are in place to tackle organised crime, have been there for a while. These bikie laws are just a stunt to prove the Gov. is hard on crime. All they have done is send the crime underground, and harass law abiding citizens. I think it will come back to bite them. Bob

[Mick_Marsh]

I wouldn't be too flippant, if it works here, it may come to you, Already NSW Police are complaining bitterly that they do not have move on laws for bikies, with chapters pushed from Qld. setting up just over the border. Interesting times ahead. Bob
I doubt it. We've seen how it doesn't work in Queensland. Whatever party suggesting such Draconian laws will be committing political suicide.
Here in Vic. we encourage people to join clubs. Just look at our marvelous club plate scheme.

[Mick_Marsh]

These bikie laws are just a stunt to prove the Gov. is hard on crime. All they have done is send the crime underground, and harass law abiding citizens. I think it will come back to bite them. Bob
I hope you are right there.

[nugge t]

Your first point, wharfies have been doing that for years. I had relatives on the wharves, they said the number of missing people in the foundations of buildings would surprise you. The second point, Laws are in place to tackle organised crime, have been there for a while. These bikie laws are just a stunt to prove the Gov. is hard on crime. All they have done is send the crime underground, and harass law abiding citizens. I think it will come back to bite them. Bob

You may well be right Bob. I must admit I am sort of sitting on the fence on this one.

It would seem if the laws are in place, they are not working. Having said that, you don't want to throw the net too wide.

At the same time, whilst everyone is doing nothing, the bikie gangs appear to be growing stronger and certainly more public if the drive by's in Sydney are anything to go by. Is a tough one !

[Lotz-A-Landies]

You may well be right Bob. I must admit I am sort of sitting on the fence on this one.

It would seem if the laws are in place, they are not working. Having said that, you don't want to throw the net too wide.

At the same time, whilst everyone is doing nothing, the bikie gangs appear to be growing stronger and certainly more public if the drive by's in Sydney are anything to go by. Is a tough one !Most of the drive by's seem to be eminating from the B4L gang. Not a bikie gang, but still a criminal organisation.

[Bigbjorn]

Do the (honest) police and politicians really think that crimes like the drug market will vanish if they persecute and jail a particular group? Money abhors a vacuum. Soon another group will organise and take over and it will all start again. Look at the Mafia in the USA. They provided liquor, girls, gambling, political favours. All products in high demand. The Rico Act supposedly destroyed the families but the crime didn't vanish, just changed hands.

[nugge t]

Apparently so but most the bikie gangs ceased to be traditional bikie gangs years ago anyway.

Not sure what the answer is.

[bob10]

We already have laws sufficient to prosecute crime without criminalising particular groups in the community.

Why should a Vietnam vet who rides a bike be caught up in this legislation because he has a beer in the RSL with another Vietnam vet who joined and resigned from a defined illegal bikie gang years before.

All I can say is bring on the High Court challenges.


The V.V.M.C. was raided by about 20 police, 'licence check', one member present used to be the President of a 1% club. One of the police recognised him, and he had to leave, even though he told them he was no longer associated with the 1%' ers. The rest of the Vietnam Veterans were told if any 1% 'ers were found in their club, the club would be given a hefty fine. My cousin told me it makes it hard to hold functions like bike shows, if a 1% 'er turns up, you're gone. My fear is, the LNP have made such a hash of this, if the High Court overturns the law, they will be a laughing stock, & the real crims in the 1 %'ers will be stronger than ever. The other way it could go, is more & more ordinary law abiding citizens will be dragged into the periphery of this mess, like a black hole. The Gov. thought they had a policy to show they were hard on crime, but it is spiralling out of control. Bob

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Apparently so but most the bikie gangs ceased to be traditional bikie gangs years ago anyway.

Not sure what the answer is.Its an easy answer. Prosecute the crime through the courts by regular policing. Don't do lazy policing of entire categories of people which catches up the innocent (law abiding citizen) along with the criminals.

[Chucaro]

Any individuals or organizations associated with bike groups of more than 3 should face the law.
Well Mr can-do there are plenty "club houses" in Qld associated with these illegal mobs, start closing down them and lock the responsible members.
Pop Frank do not even think in come to Qld :D
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/993.jpg
St. Alexander Nevsky Church Father Mark.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/994.jpg

What about blessing the bikers!!!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/995.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/996.jpg

[Mick_Marsh]

Any individuals or organizations associated with bike groups of more than 3 should face the law.
Well Mr can-do there are plenty "club houses" in Qld associated with these illegal mobs, start closing down them and lock the responsible members.
Pop Frank do not even think in come to Qld :D
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/993.jpg
St. Alexander Nevsky Church Father Mark.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/994.jpg

What about blessing the bikers!!!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/995.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/996.jpg
So, what are they going to do next? Make it illegal to be associated with a church?

[HarryO]

From Perth but spent New Year visiting a mate who lives on the Gold Coast and he (and his mates) thinks the laws are great. He rides a Ducati and gets stopped by the police quite often but does not mind.

Apparently your chances of getting thumped by a "bikie" were reasonably high in Surfers pubs until these laws changed. He took us through an area called Narang and pointed out quite a few businesses / parlors that had recently closed.

As an outsider looking in it's refreshing to see a politician with the balls to take a stand - rather than pussy foot with a softly softly approach. Same goes for the other posts about boat people..

As long as the laws stay focused on the "bad guys" they have my support. The guilty by indirect association I do not support..

[BigJon]

So, what are they going to do next? Make it illegal to be associated with a church?


We can only hope... :angel::cool:

[Mick_Marsh]

The guilty by indirect association I do not support..
I think that is what this thread is about. Being guilty by indirect association.

[Hay Ewe]

I ride a moto, but not the targeted type / style, but wondering if that makes a difference.

I used to be a member of an owners club but that lapsed a while back. Wondering if I should again to be a strength in numbers or not join and be totally independent with no affiliation.

Are you a member of a club? No - ok, on your way
Are you a member of a club? yes - which one, the XXXXXX, etc....

it might not be much now, but who knows where these laws will go. if I am a member of a club then in the future I may have to register stuff and list when and where I shall ride.

if the current targeted groups move to riding other types of bikes, then what?

just dont know,

Hay Ewe

[newhue]

feeling like a Jew? Adolf Newman has no limitations. I once employed a biker, maybe that is enough for the firing squad. Hi Newman

[Mick_Marsh]

feeling like a Jew? Adolf Newman has no limitations. I once employed a biker, maybe that is enough for the firing squad. Hi Newman
Gather what you can carry and head south. Now!
Cross the border under cover of darkness.

[bob10]

Don't worry, it wont be long before we are marching.....again. I thought that part of the life of our state was over. Don't go south, march with us, Democracy is not a spectator sport. Bob

[newhue]

Gather what you can carry and head south. Now!
Cross the border under cover of darkness.

I sometimes feel like that. Amazing what goes on when some bikers embarrass a premier. Shame he didn't feel embarrassed when he walked from his elected post of mayer; only to put his hand up for premier when the timing was right. The bikers may behave badly, but so do some of our politicians.

[bob10]

I sometimes feel like that. Amazing what goes on when some bikers embarrass a premier. Shame he didn't feel embarrassed when he walked from his elected post of mayer; only to put his hand up for premier when the timing was right. The bikers may behave badly, but so do some of our politicians.


Our premier makes a great deal out of his military past, but word has it, when asked to go to the middle east, as a UN observer, he resigned, & took up politics. He forged a career in engineering from the public purse, but would not pay back the privilidge. Bob

[newhue]

Our premier makes a great deal out of his military past, but word has it, when asked to go to the middle east, as a UN observer, he resigned, & took up politics. He forged a career in engineering from the public purse, but would not pay back the privilidge. Bob

Thanks Bob, it's sure apparent he is happy to walk from his post, and doesn't care all that much for who put him there. Perhaps he is of proper Officer casting, full of self importance and little regard for the troops.

[bob10]

the one thing we should not do is make 1% bikers martyr's, they were terrorising the coast, walking around as if they owned the coast. And we must not demonise the Qld police . The fault in this slowly developing fiasco lays with the State Government in the way they approached this. The attorney General has in a short time managed to alienate almost the entire State judiciary, by going down the popularity path, trying to gain points by taking the line taken by middle class liberals about 'criminal bikies, bogans & weak sentences handed out by Magistrates & Judges. ' An easy point scorer, except they let their massive majority give them an arrogance more akin to a South American dictatorship. Cut the police some slack, give the bikies none , but never forgive this government. My opinion only, Bob

[Kev the Fridgy]

the one thing we should not do is make 1% bikers martyr's, they were terrorising the coast, walking around as if they owned the coast. And we must not demonise the Qld police . The fault in this slowly developing fiasco lays with the State Government in the way they approached this. The attorney General has in a short time managed to alienate almost the entire State judiciary, by going down the popularity path, trying to gain points by taking the line taken by middle class liberals about 'criminal bikies, bogans & weak sentences handed out by Magistrates & Judges. ' An easy point scorer, except they let their massive majority give them an arrogance more akin to a South American dictatorship. Cut the police some slack, give the bikies none , but never forgive this government. My opinion only, Bob



Well said Bob.

[Mick_Marsh]

I sometimes feel like that. Amazing what goes on when some bikers embarrass a premier. Shame he didn't feel embarrassed when he walked from his elected post of mayer; only to put his hand up for premier when the timing was right. The bikers may behave badly, but so do some of our politicians.
I was actually quite offended by the lack of truthfulness of your statement so I have corrected it to reflect reality.

[V8Ian]

While the vast majority of decent people are horrified and preoccupied at the arrogant stance taken by an immature Government, what other legislation is being quietly whizzed through, to the detriment of ordinary people and small business?

[bob10]

Thanks Bob, it's sure apparent he is happy to walk from his post, and doesn't care all that much for who put him there. Perhaps he is of proper Officer casting, full of self importance and little regard for the troops.


I must say, the Officers I served with were not that way at all. And, I believe, the regular Army & Air force Officers of the period, as well. But, most of them were there to do a job, not get one. This bloke walked away from the Army, from Mayor, suckered in by Politicians to be their figurehead, if the Supreme court overturns the bikie laws, don't be surprised to see Premier & Attorney General exit stage left. Then, look out. The fox will be in the chicken coop. Bob

[2stroke]

To me it's about the definition of a "criminal organization". Who's next?. Gun club?, trade union? Have noticed a bit of corruption creeping into the QLD parliament lately.:angel: Read somewhere that "biker" crime equates to less than 1% of crime but is now consuming the lion's share of resources. I'm all for fighting crime but this seems to be a lot more.

[nugge t]

Gee everyone is certianly getting their Y fronts in a bit of a bind.

Was there a similar reaction against the SA premier when SA introduced their bikie legislation?

I have watched the video of the guy who CLAIMS to have been pulled over 21 times. Havn't seen any confirmation of that but am happy to concede if there is. I thought the police were respectful and that he was pretty arrogant to be honest. When asked basic questions like "what is your address" (which I assume police ask for a reason such as a cross check of the drivers licence supplied), he gave a smart ass sort of reply, same when asked about the patches on his vest.

You dont have to wear a devils mask and leathers with patches to be a recreational bike rider but if you want to look like a bad ass.....

[bob10]

Gee everyone is certianly getting their Y fronts in a bit of a bind.

Was there a similar reaction against the SA premier when SA introduced their bikie legislation?

I have watched the video of the guy who CLAIMS to have been pulled over 21 times. Havn't seen any confirmation of that but am happy to concede if there is. I thought the police were respectful and that he was pretty arrogant to be honest. When asked basic questions like "what is your address" (which I assume police ask for a reason such as a cross check of the drivers licence supplied), he gave a smart ass sort of reply, same when asked about the patches on his vest.

You dont have to wear a devils mask and leathers with patches to be a recreational bike rider but if you want to look like a bad ass.....


Read Condon's book, Three Crooked Kings, you might begin to understand. A lot of people here lived thru the Joh years, let's just say the National party is not trusted. Back then the special branch had many peoples name on file, for protesting Gov. decisions. In S.A. , I don't remember the Gov. of the day going anywhere as far as this one has, dragging more & more innocent people into the web. As more and more people are saying, " who's next? " The Unions are quiet, for a reason. They are concerned the LNP may be trying to draw them into a confrontation , a la the wharf dispute , everyone is waiting on the High Court action. Bob

[nugge t]

I understand your concerns Bob but I just think everyone is getting a bit hysterical. Legistlation needs to carefully written. Look at the fiasco that has become fringe benefits that which started as an attack on the business free lunch by Hawke/Keating and has ended up affecting a LOT more.

Qld is not the only state to have had corrupt police/politicians. I lived in WA during WA Inc but I dont see people flogging on about Burke.

Not sure the wharfies are a good example because if you go back a bit further you run smack bang into the BLF:D I live in QLd and the only place I hear "who's next" is on this forum. Not even a topic of discussion amongst my friends.

Just a note...the National are not in power.:D

[bob10]

Just a note...the National are not in power.:D


The power behind the throne, mate. I can assure you, this is being spoken about at grass roots level. A bit of hysteria, perhaps, but questions are being asked. Like, how long are Redcliffe voters going to be without representation, after the corrupt LNP politician was caught out , is he the thin edge of the wedge? Do Palmers accusations have any truth to them? And, the most important question, will the Broncos win the final this year?
:p Bob

[Lotz-A-Landies]

...

You dont have to wear a devils mask and leathers with patches to be a recreational bike rider but if you want to look like a bad ass.....So what you're saying that the State Police have a genuine right to act as the fashion police also? Sounds like profiling and anathema to me.

[nugge t]

The power behind the throne, mate. I can assure you, this is being spoken about at grass roots level. A bit of hysteria, perhaps, but questions are being asked. Like, how long are Redcliffe voters going to be without representation, after the corrupt LNP politician was caught out , is he the thin edge of the wedge? Do Palmers accusations have any truth to them? And, the most important question, will the Broncos win the final this year?
:p Bob


22nd Feb I think is the election date or certainly one I saw put out there.

This would be the first time you have given any creedence to anything Clive Palmer has said I would suspect :D Bit like Ludwig being the power behind Goss, Beatie, Burke but I wasn't hearing too much about that. And even more importantly, I don't think the Lions can win the flag but I reckon they can push for a place in the 8 :D

[nugge t]

So what you're saying that the State Police have a genuine right to act as the fashion police also? Sounds like profiling and anathema to me.

I am not sure why recreational riders would want to look like bikies but if they do, and they know the law, then they shouldn't be surprised if they get stopped.

Wearing leathers for protection, no problem. Having patches on them...personally I don't see the need.

If the bikies were smart they would wear suits:D

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I am not sure why recreational riders would want to look like bikies but if they do, and they know the law, then they shouldn't be surprised if they get stopped.

Wearing leathers for protection, no problem. Having patches on them...personally I don't see the need.

If the bikies were smart they would wear suits:DNot much protection in a linen suit!

Anyone should be able to wear whatever they want. If we are going to ban leather jackets with patches (i.e. the flying tigers) can we also ban hoodies as well? :twisted:

[BMKal]

If we are going to ban leather jackets with patches (i.e. the flying tigers) can we also ban hoodies as well? :twisted:

And budgie smugglers ................. :wasntme:

[bob10]

22nd Feb I think is the election date or certainly one I saw put out there.

This would be the first time you have given any creedence to anything Clive Palmer has said I would suspect :D


I can't believe any one would take Palmer seriously, but unlike the fish shop owner, who attracted a lot of votes, Palmer is filthy rich. Rich enough to hire the very best legal advice, and fund the best media coverage. I have yet to see Palmer make one sensible political statement, but because of recent events, the same people who voted for the fish shop lady are starting to preach Palmers message. And that is scary. When there seems no alternative, fringe dwellers like Palmer become attractive. The way things are going, the next State & Federal elections are going to be very interesting Bob

[nugge t]

Not much protection in a linen suit!

Anyone should be able to wear whatever they want. If we are going to ban leather jackets with patches (i.e. the flying tigers) can we also ban hoodies as well? :twisted:

Probably get stopped less :D

go right ahead..and get them to pull their strides up at the same time:D

If they Flying Tigers are into extortion, guns and drug running then they should be worried, if not, business as usual I would have thought.

[nugge t]

I can't believe any one would take Palmer seriously, but unlike the fish shop owner, who attracted a lot of votes, Palmer is filthy rich. Rich enough to hire the very best legal advice, and fund the best media coverage. I have yet to see Palmer make one sensible political statement, but because of recent events, the same people who voted for the fish shop lady are starting to preach Palmers message. And that is scary. When there seems no alternative, fringe dwellers like Palmer become attractive. The way things are going, the next State & Federal elections are going to be very interesting Bob


You asked the question :D Incidentally I agree with you on Palmer.

Those fronge dwellers could also be seen as the Greens when viewed from the other side and the ALP certainly snuggled up with them:D

[bob10]

If the bikies were smart they would wear suits:D


Nowadays they do. And that is the rub. The current crackdown has made the Gold Coast a safer place for the Public, but after it is over, nothing will have changed. The Drugs, etc, will still be there, the trend amongst the criminal element of some 1% clubs is some members don't even ride bikes. And they wear suits. My gripe is that the Government had laws in place to deal with the situation, but nothing was done. Now we have to have this grandstanding confrontation which has involved members of the public , for what? Time will tell. Bob
Finks club tattoos.
Comancheros

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/866.jpg (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-04/comancheros/4999556)

Thought to have instigated the Milperra massacre, the Comancheros are seen as encouraging a growing trend among bikie gangs to allow non-bikies to join.
The Daily Telegraph reported in August that the self-proclaimed national leader of the gang, Mark Buddle, had neither a motorcycle licence nor a bike.
"Show a modern Comanchero a motorbike and he wouldn't know how to ride it," former detective Duncan McNab told the paper.
"They are criminal gangs who sometimes get on a bike." The phenomenon has even spawned the phrase "Nike bikie", the paper wrote, as other bikie gangs look to recruit members to beef up their criminal activities.
The Victorian police earlier this month charged five members of the Comancheros over a recent spate of shootings in Melbourne's south-east.
All but one of the Comancheros were accused of running a debt-collecting syndicate which allegedly uses violent standover tactics to get money from victims.

[Chucaro]

Not much protection in a linen suit!

Anyone should be able to wear whatever they want. If we are going to ban leather jackets with patches (i.e. the flying tigers) can we also ban hoodies as well? :twisted:

The Queensland Motorcycle Riders' Guide (http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Motorcycle-safety/Queensland-Motorcycle-Riders-Guide.aspx) has been up dated on the 07/01/14 and state as follows:

What to wear
Whether you undertake Q-Ride competency based training and
assessment or a Q-SAFE practical riding test it is recommended
that you wear the following clothing:

pants made from heavy material that cover your legs

long sleeved shirt or jacket made from heavy material

gloves providing appropriate protection

fully enclosed shoes or boots

eye protection

Can not see any mention about what it is not allowed specially regarding patches.

[bob10]

You asked the question :D Incidentally I agree with you on Palmer.

Those fronge dwellers could also be seen as the Greens when viewed from the other side and the ALP certainly snuggled up with them:D


A lot like the un holy alliance of the LNP. Be interesting to see what happens if the High Court decides the Bikie laws are invalid, who will be the next Attorney-General? And if the rumours are correct, and the Premier is in danger of losing his seat, will he be parachuted into a safer one , or will one of the Nationals waiting in the wings, take over? One thing about politics in Qld., it's very rarely dull. And while all this turmoil is going on? Clive is waiting, like a huge dugong [ I was going to say shark, but somehow it didn't fit] :) bob

[nugge t]

Nowadays they do. And that is the rub. The current crackdown has made the Gold Coast a safer place for the Public, but after it is over, nothing will have changed. The Drugs, etc, will still be there, the trend amongst the criminal element of some 1% clubs is some members don't even ride bikes. And they wear suits. My gripe is that the Government had laws in place to deal with the situation, but nothing was done. Now we have to have this grandstanding confrontation which has involved members of the public , for what? Time will tell. Bob
Finks club tattoos.
Comancheros

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/866.jpg (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-04/comancheros/4999556)

Thought to have instigated the Milperra massacre, the Comancheros are seen as encouraging a growing trend among bikie gangs to allow non-bikies to join.
The Daily Telegraph reported in August that the self-proclaimed national leader of the gang, Mark Buddle, had neither a motorcycle licence nor a bike.
"Show a modern Comanchero a motorbike and he wouldn't know how to ride it," former detective Duncan McNab told the paper.
"They are criminal gangs who sometimes get on a bike." The phenomenon has even spawned the phrase "Nike bikie", the paper wrote, as other bikie gangs look to recruit members to beef up their criminal activities.
The Victorian police earlier this month charged five members of the Comancheros over a recent spate of shootings in Melbourne's south-east.
All but one of the Comancheros were accused of running a debt-collecting syndicate which allegedly uses violent standover tactics to get money from victims.

Totally agree with all of that but didn't see the tirades over the previous state Govt not using the exisitng laws to curb the problem. They certainly had enough time to have mde an impact. Suddenly it is all Newmans fault. So is it more acceptable to do nothing or risk going a bit too far? Just after a bit of balance :D

[nugge t]

A lot like the un holy alliance of the LNP. Be interesting to see what happens if the High Court decides the Bikie laws are invalid, who will be the next Attorney-General? And if the rumours are correct, and the Premier is in danger of losing his seat, will he be parachuted into a safer one , or will one of the Nationals waiting in the wings, take over? One thing about politics in Qld., it's very rarely dull. And while all this turmoil is going on? Clive is waiting, like a huge dugong [ I was going to say shark, but somehow it didn't fit] :) bob


Did the SA Attorney General resign after their laws faltered at the High Court?

A lot of assumption and rumours but I love the dugong comment :D

[nugge t]

The Queensland Motorcycle Riders' Guide (http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Motorcycle-safety/Queensland-Motorcycle-Riders-Guide.aspx) has been up dated on the 07/01/14 and state as follows:

What to wear
Whether you undertake Q-Ride competency based training and
assessment or a Q-SAFE practical riding test it is recommended
that you wear the following clothing:

pants made from heavy material that cover your legs

long sleeved shirt or jacket made from heavy material

gloves providing appropriate protection

fully enclosed shoes or boots

eye protection

Can not see any mention about what it is not allowed specially regarding patches.

It is a guide, not a rule book:D

[bob10]

Totally agree with all of that but didn't see the tirades over the previous state Govt not using the exisitng laws to curb the problem. They certainly had enough time to have mde an impact. Suddenly it is all Newmans fault. So is it more acceptable to do nothing or risk going a bit too far? Just after a bit of balance :D


The worrying thing about Newman is there is no balance. It's all grandstand politics. It could have been done, using the existing laws, but it had to be bigger than Ben Hur. And the bikies in suits still don't get touched. How many years are the LNP , when under pressure, going to refer back to the previous Gov. ? Hullo! we get it already, that Gov. had to go, that's why so many people voted LNP. Not because they were the better alternative, but the only alternative . a lot of people are starting to look for a better alternative towards the next election. Bob

[Chucaro]

:p:p
It is a guide, not a rule book:D
I appreciate your point, do you know if the legislation about what it is allowed or not to wear when riding a bike has been published?
It would be logic to put in the riding guide waaht is legal and what it is not.
They can put that it is illegal not to wear a helmet so I cannot see what is the problem with it ;)

[UncleHo]

Aah! Milperra,the Commo's and Banditos,at the Milperra Sunday Markets, wife,daughter and myself were there doing our Sunday market shopping with friends,yes,we rode bikes,my friend noticed them gathering,also in the markets crowd was "Lefty" with 14 year old neighbour "Leanne" my friend told his wife and mine "collect the kids and get in the car NOW, we were driving back up towards Strathfield when the police and ambulance vehicles were heading to Milperra, who fired the first shot I do not know,but "Leanne" was killed in the crossfire, I attended her funeral, and yes,it shook the Sydney motorcycle scene,nobody carried firearms until then,it was in the realm of the stupid movie " Stone" but I won't go there.

My usual evening drinking pub was the "Vauxhall Inn" with the "Gypsy Jokers" as being a friend of "Haystack" and "Odie"

Rode bikes in Sydney from late 60's to 82, gave it up when the shooting started, when" Sawnoff" was killed.

[nugge t]

The worrying thing about Newman is there is no balance. It's all grandstand politics. It could have been done, using the existing laws, but it had to be bigger than Ben Hur. And the bikies in suits still don't get touched. How many years are the LNP , when under pressure, going to refer back to the previous Gov. ? Hullo! we get it already, that Gov. had to go, that's why so many people voted LNP. Not because they were the better alternative, but the only alternative . a lot of people are starting to look for a better alternative towards the next election. Bob

Come on Bob:D There is exactly the same level of balance with both Govts. With no upper house in Qld, a majority of 1 has the same impact as a majority of 20.

I still make the point thate no one seemed to care that the previous Govt did nothing. Like I asked before, is it worse to have done nothing or gone a bit too far trying to do something?

If those on here complaining about what Newman is doing, made the same noises when the previous Govt was not using the laws, I have no problem at all:D

[Chucaro]

UncleHo !!! you are a "Person of Interest" :D

[Bigbjorn]

I am waiting for Qld. coppers to pull up and bully a group of Sunday morning recreational Harley riders dressed in the high fashion riders gear peddled by H-D. The coppers might find one is a judge, another a QC, and another a very well connected businessman. "Done any remote area policing lately, Constable?"

[Chucaro]

.................................................. ...............
If those on here complaining about what Newman is doing, made the same noises when the previous Govt was not using the laws, I have no problem at all:D

The election result it is not good enough for you as a complain in how the previous government acted?
IMHO that was the mother of all noises :D

[Bigbjorn]

Aah! Milperra,the Commo's and Banditos,at the Milperra Sunday Markets, wife,daughter and myself were there doing our Sunday market shopping with friends,yes,we rode bikes,my friend noticed them gathering,also in the markets crowd was "Lefty" with 14 year old neighbour "Leanne" my friend told his wife and mine "collect the kids and get in the car NOW, we were driving back up towards Strathfield when the police and ambulance vehicles were heading to Milperra, who fired the first shot I do not know,but "Leanne" was killed in the crossfire, I attended her funeral, and yes,it shook the Sydney motorcycle scene,nobody carried firearms until then,it was in the realm of the stupid movie " Stone" but I won't go there.

My usual evening drinking pub was the "Vauxhall Inn" with the "Gypsy Jokers" as being a friend of "Haystack" and "Odie"

Rode bikes in Sydney from late 60's to 82, gave it up when the shooting started, when" Sawnoff" was killed.

At the Viking Tavern. Then owned by Bernie Webb's Holden dealer group, Fair Deal, Hillsdon's, Boyded, and a multitude of others.

[nugge t]

:p:p
I appreciate your point, do you know if the legislation about what it is allowed or not to wear when riding a bike has been published?
It would be logic to put in the riding guide waaht is legal and what it is not.
They can put that it is illegal not to wear a helmet so I cannot see what is the problem with it ;)

Have not seen the regulation but would bevery surprised if it included a Dress Code.

The issues of patches is something I raised. I dont see the point of trying to look like a bad ass bikie but then again I have reservations about people who can not work out which way the peak is supposed to point on a baseball cap, hoodies in hot weather and plumbers cracks:D

[Chucaro]

I am waiting for Qld. coppers to pull up and bully a group of Sunday morning recreational Harley riders dressed in the high fashion riders gear peddled by H-D. The coppers might find one is a judge, another a QC, and another a very well connected businessman. "Done any remote area policing lately, Constable?"

If there is any justice that will bring the police union (if they have guts) to ask questions.
Police just following orders
Police warned to enforce Campbell Newman's new bikie laws or face being fired (http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/police-warned-to-enforce-campbell-newmans-new-bikie-laws-or-face-being-fired/story-fnihsrf2-1226743468432)

[nugge t]

The election result it is not good enough for you as a complain in how the previous government acted?
IMHO that was the mother of all noises :D

I am not sure what you are saying? It is not about my beliefs but whether there has been equal criticism. It has been mentioned several times that the laws are in place so it would seem fair to ask...

"If those on here complaining about what Newman is doing, made the same noises when the previous Govt was not using the laws, I have no problem at all:D "

If the laws worked and the Government of day ensured that they were enforced, the current discussion would not be happening.

[blitz]

I'm a tradie - 2 licensed trades electrician and fridgy

As with many people on here I have had a varied past. I was a biker, because of this I knew many different people from many different walks of life and as it happens I don't associate with most of them anymore for no particular reason moving around for work mostly. As someone with no criminal history (a couple of speeding tickets don't count) I am now having my history checked and may or may not be done with this association crap.

This means I could lose my license to carry out work, I lose my house my livelihood my everything because I knew some people that were patch wearers???

How is doing this to me helping our economy or our society?

I am actively looking for work interstate in case this actually happens, which means I leave my life that I have made here in Queensland (the state I was born in)

not sure how this is making qld a better place to live?

[Mick_Marsh]

:p:p
I appreciate your point, do you know if the legislation about what it is allowed or not to wear when riding a bike has been published?
It would be logic to put in the riding guide waaht is legal and what it is not.
They can put that it is illegal not to wear a helmet so I cannot see what is the problem with it ;)
Chucaro, we need a sarcasm font.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Aah! Milperra,the Commo's and Banditos,at the Milperra Sunday Markets, wife,daughter and myself were there doing our Sunday market shopping with friends,yes,we rode bikes,

<snip>

My usual evening drinking pub was the "Vauxhall Inn" with the "Gypsy Jokers" as being a friend of "Haystack" and "Odie"

Rode bikes in Sydney from late 60's to 82, gave it up when the shooting started, when" Sawnoff" was killed.UncleHo

Looks like you'll be moving south again! Particularly now that you've outed yourself as a Bikie associate. :o

Diana :(

[UncleHo]

G'day Brian Hjelm :)

Seems like "can't do" has been Joh's memoirs during the X'mas recess ;)

Yup! The Viking Tavern,should have remembered that, often had a drink there if we didn't go to the "Sundowner"after work.

cheers

[frantic]

Wonder what would happen if an entire club thinks like uncle ho?
They go from the 1%ers to the 0.5%ers and all join the local 4wd club. Trade in their $20-40k+ Harley on jeeps, toymotas, pootrols and even landies :D.
Locally the bikies would outnumber the 4x4 club members 3:1 so they could do what certain pollies do and branch stack. The bikie clubhouse gets re-named to the 4wd workshop/ meeting hall. Then when a drugged up member with club stickers (north brisvegas 4wd finks/ mongols/ angels/ rebels etc)on his 38in tyres 6 in lifted 4wd flattens a cop Camry we are all tagged, targeted and treated the same as today's bikies. Never mind that a vast majority of those specific club members never actually go bush, because their a member of a 4wd club and also commit organized crime ,let's tar every real 4x4 driver with the same brush. Nugget, you may have been a member of a local club and left long before this element took over , but now your an associate further proven by you and your family buying tyres and parts/servicing from the same places as those organised club members:D

[UncleHo]

Hey Chucaro :)

Me a person of interest? no I just rode motorcycles and spent my evenings either at Kings Cross watching the R&R Yanks and those cute Hippie Chicks in their see-through kaftans :D or drinking at those pubs I mentioned earlier, Bikies in those days were friendly with each other,each respected the other's Bikes (mostly British,never Jap,nobody could afford Harleys), and the birds, who was property-of and who wasn't ;)

As for some of the club names, they were often mimicked from US clubs who's names originally came from WW11 US airforce bomber squadron names, Hells-Angels, Gypsy-Jokers, etc. which was often emblazoned on their aircraft.

cheers

[nugge t]

wow frantic, that would be the longest bow ever drawn but as I have never been in a 4WD club, I guess I am safe anyway :D

[VladTepes]

There are a LOT of misconceptions in this thread. MANY members of OMCG's rarely if ever actually ride a motorcycle. They usually drive BMW's or other flash cars. They have dodgy (and expensive) lawyers on their payroll. And by and large the members of these clubs are criminals. There are feeder clubs like the bra-boys. There are PLENTY of Lebanese in these gangs these days too. They are VERY far from what most people might envisage when tehy think of the movie glorified versions of "Hells Angels" etc.

[nugge t]

I might add that I did chop a 55 AJS back in the day complete with a peanut tank, highway bars, Z handle bars and chrome springer forks. The tank was off a BSA Bantam the rear end solid.

Never wore a patch as it would have been hard to sow to the kaftan

[olbod]

Everyone is waiting for the high court decisions ?
Has anyone thought of what the future will hold if they uphold the law and brand it legal ?
If I was concerned about any of this, I would be concerned about that.

The writing has been on the wall for some time, Australia is becoming a socialist style police state ( backed by the high court ? ). By our actions ( or lack of ) we apparently approve of that or dont recognise it.
Locked out ? Locked in methinks.

I dont want to go there, so apart from this Forum, I dont associate with anyone.

Sad really. It all used to be easy going and good fun.

[olbod]

PS: to the above.
From my post you might think that I am depressed and unhappy !!!

Far from it, I make every day a good one.
And I do it all on my own.

[bobslandies]

I am waiting for Qld. coppers to pull up and bully a group of Sunday morning recreational Harley riders dressed in the high fashion riders gear peddled by H-D. The coppers might find one is a judge, another a QC, and another a very well connected businessman. "Done any remote area policing lately, Constable?"

Like to see some newbies:coplight: unsuspectingly pull up the "Blue Knights":

Blue Knights® Australia Law*Enforcement*Motorcycle Club - Home (http://www.blueknightsaustralia.org/)

:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Like to see some newbies:coplight: unsuspectingly pull up the "Blue Knights":

Blue Knights® Australia Law*Enforcement*Motorcycle Club - Home (http://www.blueknightsaustralia.org/)

:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:They're even patched bikie clubs.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/862.jpg

[Chucaro]

Hey Chucaro :)

Me a person of interest? no I just rode motorcycles and spent my evenings either at Kings Cross watching the R&R Yanks and those cute Hippie Chicks in their see-through kaftans :D or drinking at those pubs I mentioned earlier, Bikies in those days were friendly with each other,each respected the other's Bikes (mostly British,never Jap,nobody could afford Harleys), and the birds, who was property-of and who wasn't ;)

As for some of the club names, they were often mimicked from US clubs who's names originally came from WW11 US airforce bomber squadron names, Hells-Angels, Gypsy-Jokers, etc. which was often emblazoned on their aircraft.

cheers

I always have BMW bikes so fitted on the "good boys"category regardless of the behavior :D

[Chucaro]

Everyone is waiting for the high court decisions ?
Has anyone thought of what the future will hold if they uphold the law and brand it legal ?
If I was concerned about any of this, I would be concerned about that.

The writing has been on the wall for some time, Australia is becoming a socialist style police state ( backed by the high court ? ). By our actions ( or lack of ) we apparently approve of that or dont recognise it.
Locked out ? Locked in methinks.

I dont want to go there, so apart from this Forum, I dont associate with anyone.

Sad really. It all used to be easy going and good fun.
Bob, allow me to correct you on that instead of socialist let say totalitarian, I have to run away from an extreme right police state and believe me at the beginning of their power their behavior and tactics were very similar to what you are experiencing now.
Just let hope that the High Court stop these nonsenses and it is not ignored which will be the next stage.

[Tombie]

The vests work very well on a Cruiser style bike, so its a case of function (which first drove the image).

A vest stops the clothing underneath, including a juacket, from billowing, whilst also providing some additional chest and back protection from flying debris, bugs and in the case of an off, road rash to the torso.

A club member will have the Top Rocker, Patch and Lower Rocker.

The guy pulled over "21 times" had none of this...

All he had was a club badge and his nickname.

This is inline with the shirts worn by our local sporting, 4wd, fishing clubs... Club insignia and Name or Nickname.


I ride a Forward control (cruiser style) bike, and have been stopped several times 'just for a check'

I ride with several Harley Owners who have suffered similar treatment purely for their choice of transport.


All these draconian laws will do is remove the legitmate incomes forcing the persons involved to go further and harder into the underworld to fund their lives.


Along with the ability to abuse these rules - I wonder when it will start targetting boguns in Commodores? - when members of the public are constantly villified whislt going about their business then we have lost sight of the intent of the legal system.


Who is next on the hit list?

Football Clubs? I can get more 'gear' from most sporting clubs...

Darts Clubs? After all, they are brandishing sharp weapons...


'When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.' - Thomas Jefferson

[blitz]

VLAD legislation extract, check the wording, this could just as easily be applied to AULRO


3 Definitions

Inthis Act—

association means anyof the following—

(a)a corporation;

(b)an unincorporated association;

(c)a club or league;

(d)any other group of 3 or more persons by whatever name called, whether associatedformally or informally and whether the group is legal or illegal.



office bearer, of anassociation, means—

(a)a person who is a president, vice-president, sergeant-at-arms, treasurer,secretary, director or another office bearer or a shareholder of theassociation; or

(b)a person who (whether by words or conduct, or in any other way) asserts, declaresor advertises himself or herself to hold a position of authority of any kindwithin the association.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

VLAD legislation extract, check the wording, this could just as easily be applied to AULRO

3 Definitions
In this Act—

association means any of the following—
(a) a corporation;
(b) an unincorporated association;
(c) a club or league;
(d) any other group of 3 or more persons by whatever name called, whether associated formally or informally and whether the group is legal or illegal.

office bearer, of an association, means—
(a) a person who is a president, vice-president, sergeant-at-arms, treasurer, secretary, director or another office bearer or a shareholder of the association; or
(b) a person who (whether by words or conduct, or in any other way) asserts, declares or advertises himself or herself to hold a position of authority of any kind within the association.
The Catholic Church and the LNP and its office bearers would also comply with those definitions.

There is nothing sinister in them, they're merely definitions taken directly from corporations law.

The issue is what they do with the definitions and the impact the rest of the legislation.

[blitz]

with the G20 summit here later in the year - anyone with any sort of non agreement to it can be locked up using this law

[Tombie]

The Catholic Church and the LNP and its office bearers would also comply with those definitions.

There is nothing sinister in them, they're merely definitions taken directly from corporations law.

The issue is what they do with the definitions and the impact the rest of the legislation.

One of the most corrupt, murderous organisations known the mankind...

[Lotz-A-Landies]

One of the most corrupt, murderous organisations known the mankind...And patched, so maybe they should be included in the roundup.

There are certainly many who should have their working with children authority removed if it hasn't been already.

[ugu80]

I am waiting for Qld. coppers to pull up and bully a group of Sunday morning recreational Harley riders dressed in the high fashion riders gear peddled by H-D. The coppers might find one is a judge, another a QC, and another a very well connected businessman. "Done any remote area policing lately, Constable?"

If this legislation does nothing else except stop the Harley Owners Group, it will be worthwhile.

[Chucaro]

The Catholic Church and the LNP and its office bearers would also comply with those definitions.

There is nothing sinister in them, they're merely definitions taken directly from corporations law.

The issue is what they do with the definitions and the impact the rest of the legislation.

I would love to see a HD rider who is keen to put the Vatican symbol in the back of his vest and ride one weekend in the Gold Coast :)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/853.jpg

[Chucaro]

If this legislation does nothing else except stop the Harley Owners Group, it will be worthwhile.

They will swap them for Ferguson T20 tractors and keep with their business.
The quality of the riding will be the same :D

[bobslandies]

I would love to see a HD rider who is keen to put the Vatican symbol in the back of his vest and ride one weekend in the Gold Coast :)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/853.jpg

Harley BECOMING AVAILABLE, go for it:

Pope Francis sells Harley Davidson to give proceeds to poor | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2538578/Pope-Francis-sells-Harley-Davidson-proceeds-poor.html)

[Mick_Marsh]

The vests work very well on a Cruiser style bike, so its a case of function (which first drove the image).

A vest stops the clothing underneath, including a juacket, from billowing, whilst also providing some additional chest and back protection from flying debris, bugs and in the case of an off, road rash to the torso.

A club member will have the Top Rocker, Patch and Lower Rocker.

The guy pulled over "21 times" had none of this...

All he had was a club badge and his nickname.

This is inline with the shirts worn by our local sporting, 4wd, fishing clubs... Club insignia and Name or Nickname.


I ride a Forward control (cruiser style) bike, and have been stopped several times 'just for a check'

I ride with several Harley Owners who have suffered similar treatment purely for their choice of transport.


All these draconian laws will do is remove the legitmate incomes forcing the persons involved to go further and harder into the underworld to fund their lives.


Along with the ability to abuse these rules - I wonder when it will start targetting boguns in Commodores? - when members of the public are constantly villified whislt going about their business then we have lost sight of the intent of the legal system.


Who is next on the hit list?

Football Clubs? I can get more 'gear' from most sporting clubs...

Darts Clubs? After all, they are brandishing sharp weapons...


'When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.' - Thomas Jefferson
The Vic Police Traffic Operations Group are already targeting Commodore drivers. I haven't been pulled over twenty one times but I do get pulled over often for a "licence and registration check"
Don't get pulled over in the old Mercs.

[newhue]

To me it's about the definition of a "criminal organization". Who's next?. Gun club?, trade union? Have noticed a bit of corruption creeping into the QLD parliament lately.:angel: Read somewhere that "biker" crime equates to less than 1% of crime but is now consuming the lion's share of resources. I'm all for fighting crime but this seems to be a lot more.

I can tell you that is correct. A police friend who has a good idea has said to me resources that once kept an eye on other criminals has been pulled for the bikers. Asian, Italian, and other known groups are getting a free run.

[Chucaro]

I can tell you that is correct. A police friend who has a good idea has said to me resources that once kept an eye on other criminals has been pulled for the bikers. Asian, Italian, and other known groups are getting a free run.

Are the Kong and Russian mobs still active in Qld?

[newhue]

Are the Kong and Russian mobs still active in Qld?

who, I'm not into following crime. Just around a camp fire I was told resources have been redirected in a big way. Kiddie fiddlers and something else were the only ones not affected.

[Jeff]

I think it is a scam to give the pollies' mates, the lawyers more work. They will be the only ones making money over this no matter which way it ends up.

Imagine if they did this to the mafia or asian crime gangs, stopping them just for looking Italian, then anyone with dark hair to check if they have a hairy back :eek:

Jeff

:rocket:

[VladTepes]

... and it gets sillier...



A CHICKEN takeaway owner who invested in personalised plates named after a notorious outlaw motor cycle gang has been ordered by the State Government to return the plates after he was told they were "indecent".
Douglas Gaylard, 68, bought the "MONGOLS" plates for $3200 but after placing them on his GTE Ford he said he copped extra police attention, including detectives visiting his store and having his and his wife's car pulled over by police.

The US-based Mongols began a recruitment drive in Australia last year, with a number of Gold Coast-based Finks bikies patching over.

Mr Gaylard, who had advertised the plates for $20,000, said he received a letter from the Department of Transport stating that it had received a complaint after an article about police cracking down over the plate was published in The Courier-Mail.

"The complainant indicates that the combination is inappropriate as it promotes anti-social behaviour and creates a public perception that the person in possession of the numberplate may be involved in a criminal organisation, as listed in the Criminal Code (Criminal Organisations) Regulation 2013," the letter said.

"The department has assessed your numberplate combination and considers the combination displayed is indecent in accordance with the TMR "Inappropriate Combinations on Personalised Plates Policy."

The letter stated the chief executive may require the exchange of plates when considered indecent and gave Mr Gaylard 14 days to "surrender" the numberplates.

Mr Gaylard said he was offered a refund for the plates and would now consider the plates "Ford GTE".

"I just think it's garbage," Mr Gaylard said.




No Cookies | The Courier-Mail (http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/department-of-transport-says-douglas-gaylards-mongols-numberplate-indecent/story-fnihsrf2-1226801568545)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/852.jpg

[frantic]

wow frantic, that would be the longest bow ever drawn but as I have never been in a 4WD club, I guess I am safe anyway :D
Not really, how hard would you have laughed 20 or 30 years ago if a person said that bikie club will one day have a majority who don't own a bike?
Do all 4WD clubs require a registered 4x4? Mine doesn't as a few are either re-building, have comp trucks or in between.(sold old 4x4 looking for new)
Using the same legislation could the greens if they got in a power sharing deal enact the same scrutiny and harassment of 4WD's ,all because a few bogans go bush bashing and leave the place a tip or use it to transport a "cash crop" from a remote area?

[bob10]

They will swap them for Ferguson T20 tractors and keep with their business.
The quality of the riding will be the same :D


There is a Ferguson tractor for sale in the markets section, now with photos. If you want to be a rebel, I can organise a footie jumper to go with it, badged with a rooster on the breast. Even throw in a black footie helmet, for effect. Evil, man, Bob

[jonesfam]

Can-Do does seem to be rather arrogant, though that does seem to be a trait of QLD premiers going back a long time.
I have no time for so called Bikies but the way these laws are worded is just ridiculous.
If you own a Café that members of a criminal organisation likes to frequent you are guilty of association.
You are a reformed ex 1%er with wife, kids & a good job you are guilty.




But my big problem with this & a lot of new laws is the of Reversal of Onus Proof. If your charged you are guilty unless you can prove your innocence.
Since when is that the way our laws were supposed to work? It sounds very South American dictatorship to me.
The other major problem is the Government (or parts there of) decide which is a criminal organisation, not the courts. So a union, a political group or party, a group of activists, journalists or any group that disagrees with or questions the government could be branded as a criminal organisation. Also sounds a bit South American to me.
I don't support any political party & vote all over the place depending on what I personaly see as in my best interest at the time - but I do believe this country was 1 of the great democracies. Much more so than the USA where you a nothing without money, more so than the UK where class seems so important. Now I think we have regressed to being overly conservative (both sides of politics), obsessed with over governing & frightened of offending anyone. I don't care if Can-Do loses the next election or not, but I hope he gets a real good fright.
Jonesfam

[VladTepes]

Harley BECOMING AVAILABLE, go for it:

Pope Francis sells Harley Davidson to give proceeds to poor | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2538578/Pope-Francis-sells-Harley-Davidson-proceeds-poor.html)

That story is a bit suss... it says
[quote]

Four days after being given the gift, His Holiness blessed a group of 100 Hells Angles in St Peters Square

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/844.jpg


HOG members in fact......

[nugge t]

Not really, how hard would you have laughed 20 or 30 years ago if a person said that bikie club will one day have a majority who don't own a bike?
Do all 4WD clubs require a registered 4x4? Mine doesn't as a few are either re-building, have comp trucks or in between.(sold old 4x4 looking for new)
Using the same legislation could the greens if they got in a power sharing deal enact the same scrutiny and harassment of 4WD's ,all because a few bogans go bush bashing and leave the place a tip or use it to transport a "cash crop" from a remote area?

Sorry, which ever way you try to dress it, that is a very very long bow IMHO.

[bobslandies]

That story is a bit suss... it says
[quote]

Four days after being given the gift, His Holiness blessed a group of 100 Hells Angles in St Peters Square

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/844.jpg


HOG members in fact......

Plenty of typos by journalists, here's another link to the sale and signed leather jacket:

Not your average Popemobile: Pope Francis sells his Harley Davidson | FaithWorld (http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2014/01/13/not-your-average-popemobile-pope-francis-sells-his-harley-davidson/)

Strikingly, News Limited journos spelt Hells Angels correctly:

Not-so Hell's Angel: Pope's Harley-Davidson for sale | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/notso-hells-angel-popes-harleydavidson-for-sale/story-fniym3t1-1226801257389)

Currently (14/01 -1830hrs) Bonhams is offline for maintenance:

http://www.bonhams.com/departments/MOT-CYC/

[nugge t]

For all the hype, has anyone actually been unfairly charged under the legislation as yet?

It came into law on 13th October last year but I have seen any reports of anyone complaining about and actaul arrest. The closest is a guy claiming he has been stopped 21 times.

I know it is early days but for all the alarmist, anti Govt rhetoric, there doesn't seem to anything untoward having happened.:D

[Tombie]

Yes, a few have..

A lad who was employed by a Rebel, nothing to do with the club, was arrested for walking into a 'listed' building to get a drink of Coke...

That building is on the list as a former club house, but was now a legitimate registered business.


Another was a pizza delivery guy.

[Tombie]

And it's not the point - the point is it is legislation which *can* be applied to ANY scenario and used to detain YOU, without bail, where the burden of proving innocence is up to you...

[Hay Ewe]

For all the hype, has anyone actually been unfairly charged under the legislation as yet?

It came into law on 13th October last year but I have seen any reports of anyone complaining about and actaul arrest. The closest is a guy claiming he has been stopped 21 times.

I know it is early days but for all the alarmist, anti Govt rhetoric, there doesn't seem to anything untoward having happened.:D

I dont think its a case of 'has anybody been arrested / charged yet?' its a case of what they are doing / trying to do / threatening / spreading fear and the way it is being done.

kinda like what Tombie says

[nugge t]

Yes, a few have..

A lad who was employed by a Rebel, nothing to do with the club, was arrested for walking into a 'listed' building to get a drink of Coke...

That building is on the list as a former club house, but was now a legitimate registered business.


Another was a pizza delivery guy.

wow..better start getting the jocks in a knot. :D My bike riding activities in SA 40 years ago are sure to be at the top of Newmans hit list.

Not being rude, but are those arrests confirmed? The only reference I could find was 5 Victorian bikies who were arrested in January on the gold coast after having been under surviellance for 5 days. Another 2 were arrested in Cairns in October over a drunken brawl but released when police realised they had the wrong person. The guy then had what his lawyer quaintly called a "dummy spit" and was then rearrested for obstruction and public nuisance.

Seems a long way from JOH to me:D

[V8Ian]

For all the hype, has anyone actually been unfairly charged under the legislation as yet?

It came into law on 13th October last year but I have seen any reports of anyone complaining about and actaul arrest. The closest is a guy claiming he has been stopped 21 times.

I know it is early days but for all the alarmist, anti Govt rhetoric, there doesn't seem to anything untoward having happened.:DThe Yandina five. Charged and remanded for months; normal bail applications bypassed to a tame judge in Brisbane, regardless of where the charges are laid. One of the Yandina five, a family man who is not even a club member, was finally granted bail late today after being remanded into solitary since before Christmas. Very South American, jailed without conviction.

[nugge t]

The Yandina five. Charged and remanded for months; normal bail applications bypassed to a tame judge in Brisbane, regardless of where the charges are laid. One of the Yandina five, a family man who is not even a club member, was finally granted bail late today after being remanded into solitary since before Christmas. Very South American, jailed without conviction.

Fair go. He is a convicted drug trafficer (guess that part sits well with your Sth American claim) claiming he was delivering Pizzas...if it had been a few days earlier he could have been Father Xmas. :D

He was granted bail, not released without charge. The court will decide if he is innocent, as it should.

[newhue]

So I wonder after the association with tradespersons is over, will the legal fraternity be looked at. Perhaps the health system, and political circles. Defence, farming, IT, manufacturing and retail. Fair is fair. Drugs and illegal activity are everywhere.
Cant wait to pay for the Fuhrer's fury

[V8Ian]

Fair go. He is a convicted drug trafficer 1 (guess that part sits well with your Sth American claim) claiming he was delivering Pizzas...if it had been a few days earlier he could have been Father Xmas. :D

He was granted bail, not released without charge. 2 The court will decide if he is innocent, as it should.
1 Buying a couple of joints and onselling one to a mate at cost can get you done for dealing; but that's history, he's done the time for that
2 After spending weeks in solitary, over Christmas, without conviction.
Most people charged with an offence, including some charged with murder, are granted bail.
If it was a left wing government who introduced these draconian and unfair laws, I imagine you'd be protesting loud and long.

[nugge t]

Hey Newhue, why not,.....if they are not guilty they will have nothing to worry about. Personally I don't care what they do for a living. If they are in the drug supply chain they deserve to get what they get IMHO

Is that what he did or just an illustration? the news just said he was a convicted drug trafficer...would normally infer more than a couple of joints with all due respect.

He was charged and held without bail as I read it. Conviction comes later, if the charges are upheld by the court.

Well I am still trying to find out if anyone was so upset about the laws not being applied under the previous Govt.. I didn't make this political....just have a wander back through the Newman tirades. It was claimed that the laws to deal with this are in place, so the obvious question is what did Labour do and if not why not. Pleople call for the head of the attorney general if this gets kicked out in the High Court. Did they call for the head of the SA Attorney General when SA's laws were kicked out.

If people were going off their nut under the previous Government and about the SA laws and are being consistent, then I have no problem with them complaining about these laws. I may not agree with them but this just became a Newman/LNP whipping post for those who hate him regardless.

[newhue]

I'm not in for any of them. But it freaks me out when such new radical broad sweeping laws are introduced. We have no upper house here in Qld, and if you have the lower floor than one can do as they feel fit.
I think newman has reacted in an over the top way. For me, it would have been better if he said yep we have been caught out. I'm putting on X new police to get cracking on this; and actually do it.
The money he is chucking at this because he thinks that's what the people want would be an eye opener I think. People just don't want the bikers drug supply stopped, it's all drugs supply. It's not fair, or Australian to feel threatened because you might think an acquaintance has links to bikers. But I guess Howard did a similar association ruling to the unions so it is a new world here in Aus.

Back to the biker stopped 21 times. I think I would be a smart arse by then as well. With all the fan-dangle number plate reading, data bases, and cameras the police have you would hope someone would have the nouse to enter the number plate as OK. But no, lets stop him again and see what happens this time. Some call it policing, I call it bulling.

[scarry]

I have a mate who is well associated with one group,been with them for over 35yrs.

What they are very dirty about are the young guys who started all this.

Those young guys are now doing their 'time'

And it is not inside.

[bob10]

Well, well, the absolutely essential laws will be stopped in 2016. I guess that means there will be no more MC Clubs in 2016. A couple of things are a constant with Mr Newman, every time under pressure, it is the fault of the previous Gov., if something goes wrong, and when his popularity goes down, he will say any thing to appease the public. The fact that polls say Redcliffe could be lost to the other side , have nothing to do with it, of course. And 2016 is just after the next election. fancy that. Newman is a dead man walking, his National party "friends" will see to that. He has served his purpose, and can now be discarded. The wolves are gathering, Bob

[nugge t]

Dont disagree with a lot you say but that guy has claimed he has been stopped 21 times. No one has actually confirmed this from what I can see. The guy may well have an agenda of his own, such as anti legislation, but to be honest I find it strange that 1 person would randomly be stopped 21 times since the 13th October.... that's nearly twice a week???????

So far he has supplied evidence that he was questioned once. He has not been able to be contacted by the Courier Mail.

[Blknight.aus]

Dont disagree with a lot you say but that guy has claimed he has been stopped 21 times. No one has actually confirmed this from what I can see. The guy may well have an agenda of his own, such as anti legislation, but to be honest I find it strange that 1 person would randomly be stopped 21 times since the 13th October.... that's nearly twice a week???????

So far he has supplied evidence that he was questioned once. He has not been able to be contacted by the Courier Mail.

Given that I've managed to be hauled over for RBT 5 times in 3 hours.....

no, Im not surprised.

[ScottW]

Dont disagree with a lot you say but that guy has claimed he has been stopped 21 times. No one has actually confirmed this from what I can see. The guy may well have an agenda of his own, such as anti legislation, but to be honest I find it strange that 1 person would randomly be stopped 21 times since the 13th October.... that's nearly twice a week???????

So far he has supplied evidence that he was questioned once. He has not been able to be contacted by the Courier Mail.

He rides a modified harley and wears a leather vest with his social MC club patch on it. Would be easy to get pulled over 21 times with that appearance. Why should he change his dress habits and not ride his bike? According to the premier "If you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about."

He's not doing anything wrong, and I think he's quite reserved for someone who's been pulled over for a 'random check' that many times.

If it was 4WD's, not bikes they were targeting and you were pulled over in your defender for a 'random check' twice a week, would you want all the MC riders and car drivers attitudes to be "Oh well, I'm not in a 4wd, so it doesn't affect me."

Of course he has an agenda. He wants to show everyone first hand how over the top, over reaching and ridiculous these laws are.

Watch the liberals get destroyed in the upcoming bi-election.

[2stroke]

Well, well, the absolutely essential laws will be stopped in 2016. I guess that means there will be no more MC Clubs in 2016. A couple of things are a constant with Mr Newman, every time under pressure, it is the fault of the previous Gov., if something goes wrong, and when his popularity goes down, he will say any thing to appease the public. The fact that polls say Redcliffe could be lost to the other side , have nothing to do with it, of course. And 2016 is just after the next election. fancy that. Newman is a dead man walking, his National party "friends" will see to that. He has served his purpose, and can now be discarded. The wolves are gathering, Bob
The "laws" are just "under review" in 2016 as I understand it. If Labour don't gain the seat in Redcliffe then alarm bells must ring as well I guess, given the conduct of Driscoll and the LNP. I'm not convinced that Labour can rebuild in time for the next election but lets just hope so, the 2 party system doesn't work real well with only 1 strong party, no matter who you vote for. If the Nats knife Neumann, that's fine by me but also I think Bleije has big ideas regarding the leather padded "Premier chair".

[nugge t]

He rides a modified harley and wears a leather vest with his social MC club patch on it. Would be easy to get pulled over 21 times with that appearance. Why should he change his dress habits and not ride his bike? According to the premier "If you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about."

He's not doing anything wrong, and I think he's quite reserved for someone who's been pulled over for a 'random check' that many times.

If it was 4WD's, not bikes they were targeting and you were pulled over in your defender for a 'random check' twice a week, would you want all the MC riders and car drivers attitudes to be "Oh well, I'm not in a 4wd, so it doesn't affect me."

Of course he has an agenda. He wants to show everyone first hand how over the top, over reaching and ridiculous these laws are.

Watch the liberals get destroyed in the upcoming bi-election.

Missing the point, sorry. Everyone is assuming that he has been pulled over 21 times and have flown off the handle about it. It is unconfirmed. He CLAIMS he has been pulled over 21 times.

If he has been, I will happily agree it is wrong but he might be telling pork pies too. Until it is confirmed, then it should be treated accordingly, not taken as gospel.

I asked earlier if anyone has been unfairly targeted and was advised there were 2 instances, When I asked for confirmation, no one has been able to provide it. Sounds like people are jumping at shadows at this stage and the usual suspects just using it as a typical attack to support their own political views IMHO.

[nugge t]

Given that I've managed to be hauled over for RBT 5 times in 3 hours.....

no, Im not surprised.


Has there been confirmation of his claim? I havent been able to find it.

[newhue]

nugget ol mate, you will have to claim victory:D You may be the only bloke who is backing Adolf the whole way, but I think you win.:p Funny how these debates go here in Landy Land.

Now I'll just wait quietly on the couch before I'm taken away. lol

[bob10]

The "laws" are just "under review" in 2016 as I understand it.


Not according to the Premier From the courier mail

"QUEENSLAND'S premier has revealed that contentious new anti-bikie laws will eventually be scrapped, as the case of five men arrested over a pub meeting returned to court.
Premier Campbell Newman on Tuesday said his government intended to repeal tough legislation targeting outlaw motorcycle gangs after a three-year review."


Labour have to rebuild, after Bligh & Co. trashed the brand. That wont happen for some time, and they have to find the right people, not just party hacks. LNP hold Redcliffe with a 10% margin, a big call to pull that back, Qld needs both parties to be strong, otherwise you get the situation we have now, where with a massive majority the incumbents feel they can ride roughshod over the legislation process. The last election was a protest vote, the best labour can hope for will be to regain seats to reduce the LNP margin. Labour have no one but themselves to blame, let's hope party hacks & hangers on stay away, & let the true believers step up. Qld. needs it, Democracy needs it. Bob

[ScottW]

I asked earlier if anyone has been unfairly targeted and was advised there were 2 instances, When I asked for confirmation, no one has been able to provide it. Sounds like people are jumping at shadows at this stage and the usual suspects just using it as a typical attack to support their own political views IMHO.

True, there is no evidence to back his claims, however I would have no problems filling a page with links from various QLD news websites if you want. There are many more than 2 cases about the police being less than accomodating to many bike riders/motorists over the last few months in the name of both 'road safety' and OMG's.

I know that if you want to make an omelette, you need to break a few eggs, but when you're breaking a few thousand eggs for each omelette you make you aren't a very good cook.

[incisor]

Has there been confirmation of his claim? I havent been able to find it.

did he not get public apology?

more than doug next door got

to me that says a lot

[ramblingboy42]

Has there been confirmation of his claim? I havent been able to find it.

I think if you knew Dave at all, you wouldn't make that comment.

[Tombie]

No evidence to provide reason to detain most of the persons targeted by this legislation either.

Most often detained for association rather than hard evidence.

It's a case of: You can't have your cake and eat it too...

And regardless of how many times - the attendance at the random check was over the top to say the least, as well as down right ridiculous - intimidation almost!


And I can believe he has been pulled over that many times, most P platers get pulled regularly here, my lad is on a first name basis with the local constabulary and has never had a fine. Just random D&A checks...
Some weeks 2-3 times...

[Chucaro]

Has there been confirmation of his claim? I havent been able to find it.

Can you accept one? If the Police chief apologize it is because it happens.

[ugu80]

The biggest hurdle to overturning the legislation (without a High Court decision); according to ABC news, a 40% reduction in crime on the Gold Coast since the crackdown began.

[Tombie]

The biggest hurdle to overturning the legislation (without a High Court decision); according to ABC news, a 40% reduction in crime on the Gold Coast since the crackdown began.


Would not a traditional organised Crime task force have achieved the same?!

[Chucaro]

What it is got me :censored: it is why this government (and in the other state governments for that matter) if it so keen in eliminate organized crime why they do not start to eliminate it in the jails which is a confined environment and do not affect the freedom of the good citizens.

[ugu80]

Would not a traditional organised Crime task force have achieved the same?!

No, because they would have to gather evidence and prosecute. The criminals would be innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt. The current QLD legislation is, 'You're guilty because we say so'.

I have always maintained that society will tolerate a certain level of criminal activity to maintain basic rights and freedoms. Crime and anti-social behaviour could be virtually eliminated and with minimal policing, just give police absolute power to stop, imprison, search and enter anything and anyone at any time. The right go about our business, to be secure in our homes, to associate with whosoever we please, to not fear the police, to not have police and government abuse their power; these things we expect as inalienable rights. Unfortunately, they also provide a certain level of protection for criminal parasites.

I like the line by Woody Harrelson in People -v- Larry Flint; "If the First Amendment will protect a scumbag like me, then it will protect all of you, because I'm the worst."

Mr Newman might like to ponder on this quote from Abraham Lincoln, "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."

[bob10]

Sounds like people are jumping at shadows at this stage and the usual suspects just using it as a typical attack to support their own political views IMHO.


I dare say, even if you were pulled over & harassed, abused & given a hard time, you would still be in denial .
:angel: Bob

[bob10]

The biggest hurdle to overturning the legislation (without a High Court decision); according to ABC news, a 40% reduction in crime on the Gold Coast since the crackdown began.


and a 40% rise in crime everywhere else
:p Bob

[Chucaro]

I dare say, even if you were pulled over & harassed, abused & given a hard time, you would still be in denial .
:angel: Bob

Bob, some people will never accept that are wrong, it can be, the ideas that follow cannot be wrong regardless of the outcome.
When I posted about the life boats issue it was the same, now in the news it proved that the "bias and socialist" journalist was correct.

[nugge t]

Can you accept one? If the Police chief apologize it is because it happens.


A bit loose with your interpretation of what he said ...


"Some good people in the community, including recreational motorcyclists, are going to be inconvenienced and I'm sorry if that's happened to Jamie," he told 612 ABC Brisbane.


Read more: Police Commissioner sorry for inconveniencing 'harassed' biker (http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/police-commissioner-sorry-for-inconveniencing-harassed-biker-20140113-30pxh.html#ixzz2qRSxvS3b)


When some one can supply confirmation that he has been pulled over 21 times I'll believe.

I find it absolutely amazing that the same people who have consistently demanded confirmation of claims, facts and figures on so many occasions in so many threads are happy to take at face value any claim against a Lib Govt.

It is obviously more about who the claim is about than the claim itself.

I am still waiting see where 2 pizza guys were arrested but many seem happy that a guy selling ice is on bail. Bloody amazing but them again it is the same old tribe peddling the same old stuff.

[nugge t]

and a 40% rise in crime everywhere else
:p Bob

Talk about denial:D

[nugge t]

I think if you knew Dave at all, you wouldn't make that comment.


Think we must be on a different page. the confirmatio I was talking of was wether or not the guy had been pulled over 21 times but if Bob can provide it, that would be great

[Tombie]

The bloke selling ICE is protected (or should be) by the same processes which provide us with the presumption of innocence until proven otherwise.

Perhaps we should treat all persons charged with a crime by dunking them in water?
If they don't drown they're guilty, if they do, then they are innocent?!


Again, as messed up as it may seem - it's the best system out there. What is needed is judges who judge and gaols that are not holiday resorts or havens for the operation of organised criminal
Acts.

[bobslandies]

and a 40% rise in crime everywhere else
:p Bob

It's actually worse than that. The Policing budget is severely strained by these type of crackdowns (overtime, going hither and yon on fruitless missions, etc). Then there is less available for other core functions. Look at the truly astronomical amount that has been invested in the anti-terrorist preparedness. Any "terrorists" will be laughing at the inconveniences they have been able to cause without doing much at all. If anything - that is what terrorism in various forms is all about - frightening people, causing disruption, alienating the public from their government and particularly the police.

Years ago when Cabramatta was heavily targeted for dealing the action moved a few suburbs but drifted back later. Likely to happen like that in the Gold Coast. The crims ditch their vests, lie low and will likely adjust their fleet to white vans, etc.

It's not just organised crime - it's very well organised crime.

[ramblingboy42]

Think we must be on a different page. the confirmatio I was talking of was wether or not the guy had been pulled over 21 times but if Bob can provide it, that would be great

Thread #125

you quoted Blknight and questioned his post.:p

[nugge t]

1Buying a couple of joints and onselling one to a mate at cost can get you done for dealing; but that's history, he's done the time for that
2 After spending weeks in solitary, over Christmas, without conviction.
Most people charged with an offence, including some charged with murder, are granted bail.
If it was a left wing government who introduced these draconian and unfair laws, I imagine you'd be protesting loud and long.


Judge John Byrne said the critical issues at trial would be whether the prosecution could prove that on November 1 Mr Carew was a Rebels participant and, separately, whether Mr Carew, Mr Smith and Mr Lansdowne were involved in drug trafficking together.

Police allege the three were entangled in a "Rebels-centric" ice ring, for which they were charged mid last year.

Justice Byrne ruled Mr Carew be released on bail after deciding there was a "not unacceptable" risk he would reoffend because he was anxious to stay out of solitary confinement. "The prosecution is not assured of success," he said, of the March trial of Mr Carew and four other alleged Rebels who were at the pub. "Rather, the case presents as fairly arguable."

Top fellow to champion the release of. :D

[nugge t]

Thread #125

you quoted Blknight and questioned his post.:p

????
You might want to read it again before you apologise.


Wot he said....
Quote:Given that I've managed to be hauled over for RBT 5 times in 3 hours.....

no, Im not surprised.


Originally Posted by Blknight.aus https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/768.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/189355-threat-de-register-tradies-friends-connections-bikies-post2065579.html#post2065579)
Given that I've managed to be hauled over for RBT 5 times in 3 hours.....

no, Im not surprised.

Wot I said

Has there been confirmation of his claim? I havent been able to find it.


Clearly refering to the guy who claimed to be pulled over 21 times. :p:p

[nugge t]

It's actually worse than that. The Policing budget is severely strained by these type of crackdowns (overtime, going hither and yon on fruitless missions, etc). Then there is less available for other core functions. Look at the truly astronomical amount that has been invested in the anti-terrorist preparedness. Any "terrorists" will be laughing at the inconveniences they have been able to cause without doing much at all. If anything - that is what terrorism in various forms is all about - frightening people, causing disruption, alienating the public from their government and particularly the police.

Years ago when Cabramatta was heavily targeted for dealing the action moved a few suburbs but drifted back later. Likely to happen like that in the Gold Coast. The crims ditch their vests, lie low and will likely adjust their fleet to white vans, etc.

It's not just organised crime - it's very well organised crime.

So we do what we did under the last Govt......nothing and don't do anything about it. Certainly don't be critical of the Government. Heaven forbid.

Good work fellas

[V8Ian]

Judge John Byrne said the critical issues at trial would be whether the prosecution could prove that on November 1 Mr Carew was a Rebels participant and, separately, whether Mr Carew, Mr Smith and Mr Lansdowne were involved in drug trafficking together.

Police allege the three were entangled in a "Rebels-centric" ice ring, for which they were charged mid last year.

Justice Byrne ruled Mr Carew be released on bail after deciding there was a "not unacceptable" risk he would reoffend because he was anxious to stay out of solitary confinement. "The prosecution is not assured of success," he said, of the March trial of Mr Carew and four other alleged Rebels who were at the pub. "Rather, the case presents as fairly arguable."

Top fellow to champion the release of. :D
There's a big difference between allege and guilty of.

[bobslandies]

So we do what we did under the last Govt......nothing and don't do anything about it. Certainly don't be critical of the Government. Heaven forbid.

Good work fellas


Not necessarily being critical of any particular regime, just saying this gung-ho approach is very expensive, achieves little in the long term, alienates the "Jamies" who may have previously come to the aid of a police officer, is really smoke and mirrors and on previous experience has plainly not worked.

Intelligence gathering, picking off key personnel in criminal (and alleged terrorist) organisations and prosecuting with hopefully watertight evidence has proven to get better results. Riskier for the police is undercover infiltration to gather material.

What about shaking up the judiciary; or have defence legal personnel selected by ballot to defend serial criminals (not allow them to "buy" the best legal defence teams). There's food for thought:D

[nugge t]

There's a big difference between allege and guilty of.

absolutely but it would, to any person looking at his whole thread in an unbiased manner, certianly give police reason to look closely at what these guys were doing in Cairns. I can but assume that the ice was not the type Santa would be bringing from the North Pole at Xmas.

For mine I would be very disappointed if the police were not checking on what they were doing but then again, I am opposed to drugs.

[nugge t]

Not necessarily being critical of any particular regime, just saying this gung-ho approach is very expensive, achieves little in the long term, alienates the "Jamies" who may have previously come to the aid of a police officer, is really smoke and mirrors and on previous experience has plainly not worked.

Intelligence gathering, picking off key personnel in criminal (and alleged terrorist) organisations and prosecuting with hopefully watertight evidence has proven to get better results. Riskier for the police is undercover infiltration to gather material.

What about shaking up the judiciary; or have defence legal personnel selected by ballot to defend serial criminals (not allow them to "buy" the best legal defence teams). There's food for thought:D


Am happy for any of those suggestions to be tried but I am sure that some would oppose them not being able to select their own legal team. the would be a restriction of personeal freedom wouldn't it???

Bit early to claim it won't work in the long term as it has only been going 3 months.

[Blknight.aus]

????
You might want to read it again before you apologise.


Wot he said....
Quote:Given that I've managed to be hauled over for RBT 5 times in 3 hours.....

no, Im not surprised.


Originally Posted by Blknight.aus https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/768.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/189355-threat-de-register-tradies-friends-connections-bikies-post2065579.html#post2065579)
Given that I've managed to be hauled over for RBT 5 times in 3 hours.....

no, Im not surprised.

Wot I said

Has there been confirmation of his claim? I havent been able to find it.


Clearly refering to the guy who claimed to be pulled over 21 times. :p:p

Just to put the english/gramma police out there.

What you ment and what you said....

(but its ok I read it as you ment it)

For me not to be surprised at something doesnt require proof, its just got to seem reasonable.

"A toyota driver bagged out a landrover got stuck and then had to eat humble pie as the landy then recovered his toyota"

No proof to that statement But it doesnt surprise me.

[bobslandies]

absolutely but it would, to any person looking at his whole thread in an unbiased manner, certianly give police reason to look closely at what these guys were doing in Cairns. I can but assume that the ice was not the type Santa would be bringing from the North Pole at Xmas.

For mine I would be very disappointed if the police were not checking on what they were doing but then again, I am opposed to drugs.

Then like me, you would find it inconceivable that prison inmates could have access to drugs. There's a good place to start to clean up the drugs - if we cannot stop drugs getting into prisons what hope is there outside.

Maybe like in nursing homes dosing the inmates with drugs "keeps the peace".

[Chucaro]

This thread becomes one against the rest :D

[bob10]

This thread becomes one against the rest :D


You don't think nugget is Campbells nick name do you?..... oh wait, that was noddy. Bob

[bob10]

It's actually worse than that. The Policing budget is severely strained by these type of crackdowns (overtime, going hither and yon on fruitless missions, etc). Then there is less available for other core functions. Look at the truly astronomical amount that has been invested in the anti-terrorist preparedness. Any "terrorists" will be laughing at the inconveniences they have been able to cause without doing much at all. If anything - that is what terrorism in various forms is all about - frightening people, causing disruption, alienating the public from their government and particularly the police.

Years ago when Cabramatta was heavily targeted for dealing the action moved a few suburbs but drifted back later. Likely to happen like that in the Gold Coast. The crims ditch their vests, lie low and will likely adjust their fleet to white vans, etc.

It's not just organised crime - it's very well organised crime.


Agree 100%. And terrorists? we are exporting them, to Syria. Bob

[V8Ian]

You don't think nugget is Campbells nick name do you?..... oh wait, that was noddy. Bob
Wasn't that Joh's yes man, Lew Edwards?

[bobslandies]

Am happy for any of those suggestions to be tried but I am sure that some would oppose them not being able to select their own legal team. the would be a restriction of personeal freedom wouldn't it???


As a defendant nobody gets get to pick the Judge, Prosecutor or all of the Jury. If you are a serial offender why should you get to choose your defence? Maybe a Public Defenders' Office might be a better alternative for all accused anyway.
Ballot for it amongst the "registered" barristers who want to defend the accused for a set fee and mandate audit of that too. Never employ any of them as Prosecutors and better still remove the Police completely from the prosecutorial role in all Courts and keep them at arms length purely as independent evidence gatherers.

Bit early to claim it won't work in the long term as it has only been going 3 months.

Not seeing the local Queensland news I would like to see some of the great results that must have been achieved so far - you may be able to précis them since you seem satisfied.

IIRC the trial of the Milperra bikies cost in excess of $21 Million dollars, caused a special court to be constructed, proved to be a monumental stuff-up and after appeal many of the protagonists were released early (Like very early compared to their sentences).

[ugu80]

What about shaking up the judiciary; or have defence legal personnel selected by ballot to defend serial criminals (not allow them to "buy" the best legal defence teams). There's food for thought:D
How about lawyers 'quote' for a case and that is what they are paid instead of being paid by the day. See how quickly court waiting lists clear if lawyers cannot stretch out a matter to boost their income.

[bobslandies]

Agree 100%. And terrorists? we are exporting them, to Syria. Bob

When young Jewish Australians go to Israel to help defend their other homeland they are apparently not engaging in "foreign incursions" if they happen to cross a border or two.

Any other concerned citizen who goes to other areas (Yugoslavia and its breakup states in the past), Libya, Syria, etc is a mercenary, incursionist or terrorist.

Some weird logic and propaganda out there.

[nugge t]

Then like me, you would find it inconceivable that prison inmates could have access to drugs. There's a good place to start to clean up the drugs - if we cannot stop drugs getting into prisons what hope is there outside.

Maybe like in nursing homes dosing the inmates with drugs "keeps the peace".

Could not agree more. Doesn't mean bikies should be have ice parties in Cairns though. As I have said elsewhere, we should be doing everythign possible.

Pity subsequent Govts of both types in all states haven't done this.

[nugge t]

IIRC the trial of the Milperra bikies cost in excess of $21 Million dollars, caused a special court to be constructed, proved to be a monumental stuff-up and after appeal many of the protagonists were released early (Like very early compared to their sentences).

so that is justification to do nothing?

The are only 2 sets of arrests that I am aware of and 40 crime reduction on teh Gold Coast. If that is insufficient for you and therefore in your opinion it isn't working, then obviously the reaction on here is way over the top. You can not have it both ways.

[nugge t]

You don't think nugget is Campbells nick name do you?..... oh wait, that was noddy. Bob

Starting to stoop a bit low bob5. The time would be better spent tryin g to find some facts as obviously humour is not your go :D

[nugge t]

This thread becomes one against the rest :D

One against Team Puce's "B" team I would have thought :D:D

[ugu80]

The historian and moralist, who was otherwise known simply as Lord Acton, expressed this opinion in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton in 1887:
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."

William Pitt the Elder, Earl of Chatham and British Prime Minister from 1766 to 1778, who said in a speech to the UK House of Lords in 1770:
"Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it"

An English translation of Lamartine's essay France and England: a Vision of the Future was published in London in 1848 and included this text:
"It is not only the slave or serf who is ameliorated in becoming free... the master himself did not gain less in every point of view,... for absolute power corrupts the best natures."

There is peril in awarding those charged with serving and protecting our legal rights and liberties too much authority. Some, and not a small minority if a minority at all, 'get off' (to use a euphemism) on power. This I witnessed first hand at the Sydney APEC conference. Unprecedented powers were awarded to Police in a small declared zone at the northern end of the city. One small power was a ban on photographs. The relish which many of my colleagues, otherwise good and honest Police, searched for and pounced aggressively on photo takers (not always in the declared zone), most of which were ordinary people or tourists, left me (and a few others) stunned, amazed and ashamed. When I admonished them it was pointed out to me that they were doing nothing wrong under the special APEC provisions. There were many unaffected (hopefully me being one) but for the first time in my life I was confronted with the corrupting influence of power. Dictators cling to power by boosting the egos of otherwise minor functionaries with unchallenged authority.

[Chucaro]

When we see how some politicians are acting I wonder if narcissism, a common personality disorder, were greed for control is one of the characteristics it is not what affect them.
People suffering from narcissism commonly attempt to control others and are in positions were they can satisfy the sense of power

[nugge t]

The historian and moralist, who was otherwise known simply as Lord Acton, expressed this opinion in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton in 1887:
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."

William Pitt the Elder, Earl of Chatham and British Prime Minister from 1766 to 1778, who said in a speech to the UK House of Lords in 1770:
"Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it"

An English translation of Lamartine's essay France and England: a Vision of the Future was published in London in 1848 and included this text:
"It is not only the slave or serf who is ameliorated in becoming free... the master himself did not gain less in every point of view,... for absolute power corrupts the best natures."

There is peril in awarding those charged with serving and protecting our legal rights and liberties too much authority. Some, and not a small minority if a minority at all, 'get off' (to use a euphemism) on power. This I witnessed first hand at the Sydney APEC conference. Unprecedented powers were awarded to Police in a small declared zone at the northern end of the city. One small power was a ban on photographs. The relish which many of my colleagues, otherwise good and honest Police, searched for and pounced aggressively on photo takers (not always in the declared zone), most of which were ordinary people or tourists, left me (and a few others) stunned, amazed and ashamed. When I admonished them it was pointed out to me that they were doing nothing wrong under the special APEC provisions. There were many unaffected (hopefully me being one) but for the first time in my life I was confronted with the corrupting influence of power. Dictators cling to power by boosting the egos of otherwise minor functionaries with unchallenged authority.

We all have our life experiences which mould our values. I experienced first hand people who were driving having had their licences taken for life, one 4 times and the other 5 times. Both still drove with one involved in a police chase through streets one of my daughters used as part of her learners licence instruction.

When caught, after trying to ride a motorbike through a wire fence he was held down by police and later took legal action against them for touching his neck after he had a "neck injury" He got a $180 fine which was added to his other unpaid fines NOT being repaid at $2 per week.

The one who had lost his licence for "life" 5 times was later caught driving out of the court car park having just had a 6th added to his sheet.

This was during a softly softly under the Goss Govt. People like this use the system and continue using the system. The Compassion so demanded for them does not change their behaviour.

I don't drink and drive but an happy to comply when pulled over so I see no difference with genuine recreational Bike riders, unless they have a political axe to grind.

[nugge t]

When we see how some politicians are acting I wonder if narcissism, a common personality disorder, were greed for control is one of the characteristics it is not what affect them.
People suffering from narcissism commonly attempt to control others and are in positions were they can satisfy the sense of power

WOW...really really deep but this thread is not about Kevin Rudd:D

[ugu80]

We all have our life experiences which mould our values. I experienced first hand people who were driving having had their licences taken for life, one 4 times and the other 5 times. Both still drove with one involved in a police chase through streets one of my daughters used as part of her learners licence instruction.

When caught, after trying to ride a motorbike through a wire fence he was held down by police and later took legal action against them for touching his neck after he had a "neck injury" He got a $180 fine which was added to his other unpaid fines NOT being repaid at $2 per week.

The one who had lost his licence for "life" 5 times was later caught driving out of the court car park having just had a 6th added to his sheet.

This was during a softly softly under the Goss Govt. People like this use the system and continue using the system. The Compassion so demanded for them does not change their behaviour.

I don't drink and drive but an happy to comply when pulled over so I see no difference with genuine recreational Bike riders, unless they have a political axe to grind.
Agreed, Nugget, but there is a balance between authority and freedom. The main gripe, as far as I can tell of the QLD legislation, is there is a genuine concern that it has gone too far by attacking the general principle of the right to association. The razor gangs of 1920's Sydney were defeated by Consorting legislation, where persons and criminals associating with other criminals was outlawed. In the consorting legislation such association was subject to a 'booking' in that such association was recorded and action was taken when a number of 'bookings' were recorded, thus showing a pattern of criminal association whereas this is 'you're with him, he's a bikie (they prefer biker, actually), you're guilty' and that instant criminality for just being with someone is what scares people.

[nugge t]

Agreed, Nugget, but there is a balance between authority and freedom. The main gripe, as far as I can tell of the QLD legislation, is there is a genuine concern that it has gone too far by attacking the general principle of the right to association. The razor gangs of 1920's Sydney were defeated by Consorting legislation, where persons and criminals associating with other criminals was outlawed. In the consorting legislation such association was subject to a 'booking' in that such association was recorded and action was taken when a number of 'bookings' were recorded, thus showing a pattern of criminal association whereas this is 'you're with him, he's a bikie (they prefer biker, actually), you're guilty' and that instant criminality for just being with someone is what scares people.

Understand but in 3 months, from what I can tell, not one obviously innocent person has been charged. The one person who claims to have been pulled over 21 times has gone to ground and despite craving fame on Youtube, has gone missing in action when the Courier Mail tried to interview him, when I would have thought he would scream his case from the rooftops.

With so many enquiring minds around, I can not understand that I am the only one who finds this strange. Normally those enquiring minds would not accept at face value such claims in a fit.

Just seems way too much fear mongering of what might happen because apparently every Lib premier is an even more evil reincarnation of JOH.

ANd I say again, not a murmur about Labour doing zip even though, by the claims of several on here that the existing laws are adequate. If they are adequate, shouldn't the debate for the last 20 years been.....why hasn't the Govt fixed this problem?

[Chucaro]

WOW...really really deep but this thread is not about Kevin Rudd:D

Nugge t, did I mention the name of a politician for you to come with that reply?
Why you have to come with comparisons between Lib and ALP can you leave your political preferences to one side?
I guess that you should remember that my political preferences are not with any of them and you should not that my regards for politicians regardless of their party affiliation it is not very high.
The debate will be more constructive if you just kept party politics to one side and try to express your views with the pros and cons of policies in discussion.

[bob10]

There is peril in awarding those charged with serving and protecting our legal rights and liberties too much authority. Some, and not a small minority if a minority at all, 'get off' (to use a euphemism) on power. This I witnessed first hand at the Sydney APEC conference. Unprecedented powers were awarded to Police in a small declared zone at the northern end of the city. One small power was a ban on photographs. The relish which many of my colleagues, otherwise good and honest Police, searched for and pounced aggressively on photo takers (not always in the declared zone), most of which were ordinary people or tourists, left me (and a few others) stunned, amazed and ashamed. When I admonished them it was pointed out to me that they were doing nothing wrong under the special APEC provisions. There were many unaffected (hopefully me being one) but for the first time in my life I was confronted with the corrupting influence of power. Dictators cling to power by boosting the egos of otherwise minor functionaries with unchallenged authority.


Police are obliged, nay [ to use a old word , not a horse's talk] under oath to enforce the law of the particular Gov. they serve, they have no choice. Or they do, they can resign. To most Police the job is a calling, and to be quite honest, the police service underpins our values, our society as we would like it to be. They have to do what their Commissioner decrees, and most times that is in the particular States best interest. You have a Commissioner whose only interest is himself [ Lewis] and you have Qld pre Fitzgerald. History will bare the truth of this period of our political story. If your biggest grief with Police is that they would not let you take photos , and were perhaps a little " rough " , [ you poor thing] let me tell you were lucky not to live in the era of Bumper Farrell. Bob

[V8Ian]

I don't drink and drive but an happy to comply when pulled over I doubt any reasonable person objects to an RBT, they only delay you 2-5 minutes; the bikers are being harassed and bullied for an hour each time.

Newman claims that most people support this immoral legislation; he must have only surveyed his LNP MPs. Of the hundreds of people I've discussed this issue with you are the only one to support and defend it, nugge t.

[ugu80]

I don't think the concern is not whether anyone has or has not been charged but that there is a provision in the legislation for such a charge.

Anyway, I'll say good night now to you Nugget. Nice to have you back. I've enjoyed immensely reading of your travels.

[bob10]

I don't think the concern is not whether anyone has or has not been charged but that there is a provision in the legislation for such a charge.

Anyway, I'll say good night now to you Nugget. Nice to have you back. I've enjoyed immensely reading of your travels.
OMG, brain dead zombies are actually real! and , it looks like they are breeding. Bob

[ugu80]

Police are obliged, nay [ to use a old word , not a horse's talk] under oath to enforce the law of the particular Gov. they serve, they have no choice. Or they do, they can resign. To most Police the job is a calling, and to be quite honest, the police service underpins our values, our society as we would like it to be. They have to do what their Commissioner decrees, and most times that is in the particular States best interest. You have a Commissioner whose only interest is himself [ Lewis] and you have Qld pre Fitzgerald. History will bare the truth of this period of our political story. If your biggest grief with Police is that they would not let you take photos , and were perhaps a little " rough " , [ you poor thing] let me tell you were lucky not to live in the era of Bumper Farrell. Bob

You must have missed the 'my colleagues' line. I did 35 years in the job and I was a young Constable in the Bumper Farrell era, I was very familiar with the old Darlinghurst Police Station, having been stationed at Central. In case its before your time, The Rocks Police stn was George St North then, it had holes in the floor you could fall through.

[bob10]

You must have missed the 'my colleagues' line. I did 35 years in the job and I was a young Constable in the Bumper Farrell era, I was very familiar with the old Darlinghurst Police Station, having been stationed at Central. In case its before your time, The Rocks Police stn was George St North then, it had holes in the floor you could fall through.


I didn't have the pleasure, I am surprised at your attitude. Bob


Have you read Condon's books, if so, what is your opinion?

[ugu80]

I didn't have the pleasure, I am surprised at your attitude. Bob


Have you read Condon's books, if so, what is your opinion?
No, I haven't read Condon. I have read Engels and Marx which I doubt most left wing advocates can say.

My attitude changed that day of which I wrote. The number of Police whose personality changed when charged with power beyond the normal was truly a shock. It wasn't that they were doing their duty, you do what you have to do (as you pointed out), it was their attitude, it was how they relished and were thrilled and excited by the extra power.

Nugget can write well and reasoned dissertations and very good travel articles. I think I am passably literate. We might be getting old but we're not quite brain dead zombies yet.

[bob10]

No, I haven't read Condon. I have read Engels and Marx which I doubt most left wing advocates can say.

My attitude changed that day of which I wrote. The number of Police whose personality changed when charged with power beyond the normal was truly a shock. It wasn't that they were doing their duty, you do what you have to do (as you pointed out), it was their attitude, it was how they relished and were thrilled and excited by the extra power.

Nugget can write well and reasoned dissertations and very good travel articles. I think I am passably literate. We might be getting old but we're not quite brain dead zombies yet.


Do yourself a favour, read Condons books. Then tell me about the police force you worked in, cheers, bob

[nugge t]

Nugge t, did I mention the name of a politician for you to come with that reply?
Why you have to come with comparisons between Lib and ALP can you leave your political preferences to one side?
I guess that you should remember that my political preferences are not with any of them and you should not that my regards for politicians regardless of their party affiliation it is not very high.
The debate will be more constructive if you just kept party politics to one side and try to express your views with the pros and cons of policies in discussion.

Chill out bro...it was a joke...seemed to describe Kevin perfectly regardless of which side you come from as even his own described his thus.

Having said that, please go back to the start and read the political bias in virtually many post. You were actually one of the first to refer to MR can-do in post #23 so how about giving yourself an upper cut.

Several others wind up in other posts from around #40. Please post exactly the same post to them. The day you leave your political prefernce to one side, so will I.

[nugge t]

I don't think the concern is not whether anyone has or has not been charged but that there is a provision in the legislation for such a charge.

Anyway, I'll say good night now to you Nugget. Nice to have you back. I've enjoyed immensely reading of your travels.


Thanks mate....nice to know someone actually reads them :D

Sorry to drag you down to brain dead zombie status but it is par for the course. When they can not answer the question or provide the proof they either resort to personal insult or start quoting in latin. :D

Whilst I might not agree with their view point, I have much respect for The Team Puce "A" team as at least they have a bit more imagination. :D:D

[Chucaro]

Chill out bro...it was a joke...seemed to describe Kevin perfectly regardless of which side you come from as even his own described his thus.

Having said that, please go back to the start and read the political bias in virtually many post. You were actually one of the first to refer to MR can-do in post #23 so how about giving yourself an upper cut.

Several others wind up in other posts from around #40. Please post exactly the same post to them. The day you leave your political prefernce to one side, so will I.

I mentioned the name of the premier in Qld he is the one in power and that have put the laws, if was for another party I would do the same.
I cannot blame the Dalai Lama for that :D

[bob10]

Thanks mate....nice to know someone actually reads them :D

Sorry to drag you down to brain dead zombie status but it is par for the course. When they can not answer the question or provide the proof they either resort to personal insult or start quoting in latin. :D

Whilst I might not agree with their view point, I have much respect for The Team Puce "A" team as at least they have a bit more imagination. :D:D
You can have proof thrown in your face, but you would not recognise it. All you wish to do is stir the pot, truth has nothing to do with your agenda. Try Hollywood, you would do well there. You have not stated one true statement in this thread, just stirred the pot, with no tasty additions to make it a wholesome meal. You sad man, meant in the nicest possible way, Bob ;)

[bobslandies]

The historian and moralist, who was otherwise known simply as Lord Acton, expressed this opinion in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton in 1887:
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."

William Pitt the Elder, Earl of Chatham and British Prime Minister from 1766 to 1778, who said in a speech to the UK House of Lords in 1770:
"Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it"

An English translation of Lamartine's essay France and England: a Vision of the Future was published in London in 1848 and included this text:
"It is not only the slave or serf who is ameliorated in becoming free... the master himself did not gain less in every point of view,... for absolute power corrupts the best natures."

There is peril in awarding those charged with serving and protecting our legal rights and liberties too much authority. Some, and not a small minority if a minority at all, 'get off' (to use a euphemism) on power. This I witnessed first hand at the Sydney APEC conference. Unprecedented powers were awarded to Police in a small declared zone at the northern end of the city. One small power was a ban on photographs. The relish which many of my colleagues, otherwise good and honest Police, searched for and pounced aggressively on photo takers (not always in the declared zone), most of which were ordinary people or tourists, left me (and a few others) stunned, amazed and ashamed. When I admonished them it was pointed out to me that they were doing nothing wrong under the special APEC provisions. There were many unaffected (hopefully me being one) but for the first time in my life I was confronted with the corrupting influence of power. Dictators cling to power by boosting the egos of otherwise minor functionaries with unchallenged authority.

And we could add Abraham Lincoln:

“Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.”

“Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves.”

Fortunately for the Chaser team it was impressed on the US marksmen that they were basically only idiots having a bit of fun and we did not have any fatalities that day. (That never happened)

[nugge t]

You can have proof thrown in your face, but you would not recognise it. All you wish to do is stir the pot, truth has nothing to do with your agenda. Try Hollywood, you would do well there. You have not stated one true statement in this thread, just stirred the pot, with no tasty additions to make it a wholesome meal. You sad man, meant in the nicest possible way, Bob ;)

Certainly getting yourself in a bit of a lather there bob. You are right, I can not provide proof of the things I have asked for confirmation.

Not one confirmation that the guy has been pulled over 21 times. But hey, I am not on my Pat Malone because you haven't been able to find it either, even though it forms the base of your argument. On pretty shaky foundations so no wonder you are getting the wobbles up.

Mate, how could I possibly take offence at you calling me a sad man? It is taken in the nicest possible way as it illustrates perfectly the sort of guy you are, in the nicest possible way, of course

Better be careful..you might get dropped to the "C's" as I think your form has slipped substantially.

[nugge t]

I mentioned the name of the premier in Qld he is the one in power and that have put the laws, if was for another party I would do the same.
I cannot blame the Dalai Lama for that :D

Really??? I thought I remembered you having a real problem with Ju-Liar but thinking The Mad Monk really funny. Must have been mistaken:D

[Chucaro]

Really??? I thought I remembered you having a real problem with Ju-Liar but thinking The Mad Monk really funny. Must have been mistaken:D

:confused: ....and I was thinking that this thread was about the Qld laws on bikes!!
Come, join Bob and I listen to nice guitar music on the other thread :)
Post your as well :cool:

[bob10]

:confused: ....and I was thinking that this thread was about the Qld laws on bikes!!
Come, join Bob and I listen to nice guitar music on the other thread :)
Post your as well :cool:


Chuckky, walk slowly away, don't make eye contact, ......let he & his mates jibber away, we have a life to live, AREEBA! Bob

[Chucaro]

There cannot be disagreements when we talk about good music and it is heaps better than politics :D

[medic455]

Well hold onto your hats because our fearless protectors want to go even further (in protecting us from the ........?) this evening one of my kids read out an online news story coming out of the Gold Coast, it seems that some Rocket Scientist MP from there is now suggesting that ALL Queenslanders with tattoos should be forced, by legislation to register their tattoos with the QPS :o :o :o :o :o . Seems he feels that we are all laundering dirty money and paying huge sums for non existent tattoos under false names :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored:.

[nugge t]

Chuckky, walk slowly away, don't make eye contact, ......let he & his mates jibber away, we have a life to live, AREEBA! Bob

Happy to return to the topic,. How about we start with the confirmation that the guy was pulled over 21 times. That would clear up a lot of discussion.

By the way I also supported the SA Labour Govt when it introduced similar laws. Was also disappointed when they were chucked out in the High Court. I have asked before but have never been answered if the opposition on here was so hysterical at the time.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I'd be happy for a return to Topic also,

in fact, you ALL may consider this the first and last warning to keep to the rules of this site,
No politics and no "playing the man".

[bob10]

I'd be happy for a return to Topic also,

in fact, you ALL may consider this the first and last warning to keep to the rules of this site,
No politics and no "playing the man".


Sorry, Pedro, I try not to play the man, but sometimes........... I will try to be a good boy .Bob

[nugge t]

The attorney General says 485 have been arrested on 1000 charges since the crackdown. I think it fair to believe he can substansiate that as it would be checkable for a dedicated journo.

"Misinformation that our legislation will capture innocent people is unfounded. They target only criminal gang members and associates who are also involved in their criminal ways.
The results speak for themselves. Since the Newman Government's crackdown, more than 485 criminal gang members and their associates have been arrested on 1000 charges, including extortion, assault and drug offences.
Just ask the people of the Gold Coast, which was until a few months ago a hotbed of criminal gang activity. They are now saying they finally feel safer. A recent Gold Coast Bulletin editorial said "What the police have done by enforcing the new laws is send a clear message that members and associates of criminal gangs across the country are not welcome here. The laws have already been fantastic for the Gold Coast and, through their continued enforcement by police, that message must be repeated until it gets through."
We will continue to repeat that message. This fight was never going to be easy but we are determined to keep our election promise to make Queensland the safest place to raise a family. "

In the interests of full disclosure, the full article can be seen here although I am sure it would have been in many other media reports as well:-

'Frustrated' Jarrod Bleijie's open letter on bikie laws | Sunshine Coast Daily (http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/jarrod-bleijie-letter-response-bikie-laws-vlad/2134420/)

It went on to say...

Just ask the people of the Gold Coast, which was until a few months ago a hotbed of criminal gang activity. They are now saying they finally feel safer. A recent Gold Coast Bulletin editorial said "What the police have done by enforcing the new laws is send a clear message that members and associates of criminal gangs across the country are not welcome here. The laws have already been fantastic for the Gold Coast and, through their continued enforcement by police, that message must be repeated until it gets through."

Against this we have

a. one person who claims to have been stopped by police 21 times and the only person to have witnessed it is.......let's be really really clear on this....... him.....

b. a report of 2 pizza delivery boys being harrassed. Despite several open requests, no confirmation has been received.

No wonder Qld'ers are shaking in their boots at the level of over policing in this state. :D

[bob10]

I'm reasonably sure the thread is about the threat to de-register tradies with links to bikies, not sure what the number of people pulled over has to do with it. Bob

[ugu80]

To everyone, have a look at the top of the 'Chat' page; it has this line....."General Chat Almost anything goes, have a look and drop in a few lines. Think of it as a campfire chat with the kids around".
If you have proof, all the better, please post a reference, but everyone here has the right to post an opinion and without being abused for holding an opposing view.

[nugge t]

I'm reasonably sure the thread is about the threat to de-register tradies with links to bikies, not sure what the number of people pulled over has to do with it. Bob

It is relevant as whilst the thread began about the threat to de-list tradies it was soon claimed that there would be no end to who would be rounded up. The claim by one bike rider that he had been pulled over 21 times was used as an example of the probably abuse of powers.

It was also claimed that there was no need for the laws as there were existing laws which just needed to be used.

To date I am not aware of any tradie having been de-listed under the legislation. Nor am I aware of claims other than the unconfirmed claims by the “man of 21”.

I do wonder however if under the old legislation 480 bikies were ever arrested on 1000 charges in a 3 month period. I do not know the answer to that and I am sure many on here will be happy to advise me if it has happened. If however, it did not happen under the old laws, then one would have to acknowledge that the old laws did not work as well as the current ones.

Once the hysteria is wiped out of the way, I can not see where any QLD’ers have been subjected to over policing by jack boot wearing police instructed by an evil dictator to round up any of the masses who have a bloke with a trail bike living up the street.

Might be best to move onto another topic.:D

[ramblingboy42]

Two faced or what?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1/p75x225/1497544_10152164573239182_493509004_n.jpg

[ramblingboy42]

yes, it's very tongue in cheek, they're Vietnam Veteran Bikers......but he's associating.

[bob10]

Might be best to move onto another topic.:D


We will agree to disagree, please do. Bob

[ramblingboy42]

is that it?

is there a score?

Nugget 57: The rest 145

[bob10]

is that it?

is there a score?

Nugget 57: The rest 145


Information will be posted when available, Bob

[nugge t]

is that it?

is there a score?

Nugget 57: The rest 145

probably more like

nugget 1

The Rest waiting for supporting documentation to be supplied without abuse


:D

[nugge t]

We will agree to disagree, please do. Bob

Fine by me :D

[bobslandies]

probably more like

nugget 1

The Rest waiting for supporting documentation to be supplied without abuse


:D

Thanks for your reply with the information on charges, hopefully most prosecutions will succeed.

It is interesting though that the current Attorney-General was quite opposed to the previous Government's very similar Bill in 2009 in that it was going to
unfairly ensnare a broad range of ordinary citizens.

http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/documents/Speeches/spk2009/Jarrod%20Bleijie%20spk%20Kawana%202009_11_25_105.p df

Now it's my VLAD is better than your VLAD (or Criminal Organisations Disruption bill).

On here we know our Vlad is okay:D

[nugge t]

Interesting. 4 years is always a long time in politics but there was some very interesting information.

One of the reasons for that Bill being opposed was..


"While it is currently intended for motorcycle gangs, once again this bill does not mention the term ‘bikie’ or ‘motorcycle gangs’, and this piece of legislation could be used against any group that may fall into disfavour regardless of the purpose of their gathering."

I think the new one is more specific and therfore has enabled police to make the number arrests without affecting ordinary citizens.

Under the previous laws...


Task Force Hydra, the Queensland outlaw motorcycle gang task force that was set up in September 2006, works with interstate law enforcement agencies and the Australian Crime Commission’s National Intelligence Task Force. From the establishment of the task force to March this year, police have made 332 arrests in relation to 931 charges as a result of the operation of the task force since its inception. These arrests and charges included attempted murder, arson, extortion, robbery and drug trafficking. Also as a result of this task force’s operations, police have seized assets such as hydroponic houses, assets and money. I commend the members of the task force for their involvement in fighting organised crime. As
criminologist Dr Paul Wilson indicated, the fact that there have been so many arrests indicates that existing laws are sufficient without the need to enact laws aimed directly at bikie gangs. We do not need to enact
laws aimed directly at bikie gangs or other groups, but we do need to give more resources, more funding and more support to our police officers.

So in 9 months there were less arrests than in 3 months under the new laws. I am not familiar as to whether the charges stuck but one would hope that they do under the new legistlation.

What would be fair to say I think is that judging by the results, the previous legislation was either not working as well, or there was a lack of political will to enforce them.

Cheers

[nugge t]

Seriously, I am happy agree to disagree and let the thread slide.

[olbod]

A few weeks ago I was stopped for a random breath test.
True. Down by the showground at Sarina, I was on me way to IGA.
Now it wasn't conducted by monsanto or bayer and the results published nor did I recieve any sort of reciept to confirm my word.

So it clearly must not have happened and I must be a liar.

Ya cant have it both ways.

[nugge t]

A few weeks ago I was stopped for a random breath test.
True. Down by the showground at Sarina, I was on me way to IGA.
Now it wasn't conducted by monsanto or bayer and the results published nor did I recieve any sort of reciept to confirm my word.

So it clearly must not have happened and I must be a liar.

Ya cant have it both ways.

No body called you a liar and I am not looking to have it both ways like you are.

The real issue is that apparently it hasn't happened to you 21 times in 3 months and you don't appear to be complaining about having been stopped and tested.

Nobody else in Qld appears to be complaining about the level of intrusion either as far as I am aware, other than Mr 21 who seems to have gone to ground since the you tube video came out. If you were stopped 21 times, I woudld expect you would be screaming as loud and as often from as many places as possible. Frankly, so would I. This guy has not given a squeak. Surely, you have to ask why?

Again, I am happy agree to disagree and let the thread slide.

[bobslandies]

Interesting. 4 years is always a long time in politics but there was some very interesting information.

I would concede that. Mr Bleijie had only just been elected and as a small town Solicitor was either quite "liberal" minded at the time or just following the party line of opposing the previous Government. He was also then about 25. After the last election he currently holds the safest seat in Queensland. If he makes this work he might be Premier one day, notice he is not being too fervently supported now by other contenders. He may have also been alerted to the enormity of the task

One of the reasons for that Bill being opposed was..


"While it is currently intended for motorcycle gangs, once again this bill does not mention the term ‘bikie’ or ‘motorcycle gangs’, and this piece of legislation could be used against any group that may fall into disfavour regardless of the purpose of their gathering."

I think the new one is more specific and therfore has enabled police to make the number arrests without affecting ordinary citizens.

Under the previous laws...


Task Force Hydra, the Queensland outlaw motorcycle gang task force that was set up in September 2006, works with interstate law enforcement agencies and the Australian Crime Commission’s National Intelligence Task Force. From the establishment of the task force to March this year, police have made 332 arrests in relation to 931 charges as a result of the operation of the task force since its inception. These arrests and charges included attempted murder, arson, extortion, robbery and drug trafficking. Also as a result of this task force’s operations, police have seized assets such as hydroponic houses, assets and money. I commend the members of the task force for their involvement in fighting organised crime. As
criminologist Dr Paul Wilson indicated, the fact that there have been so many arrests indicates that existing laws are sufficient without the need to enact laws aimed directly at bikie gangs. We do not need to enact
laws aimed directly at bikie gangs or other groups, but we do need to give more resources, more funding and more support to our police officers.

So in 9 months there were less arrests than in 3 months under the new laws. I am not familiar as to whether the charges stuck but one would hope that they do under the new legistlation.

What would be fair to say I think is that judging by the results, the previous legislation was either not working as well, or there was a lack of political will to enforce them.

Cheers


Or there may have been other forces at work. We have seen Police Forces obstructing their incumbent Government's pet areas that the Commissioner may not have favoured and governments interfering on what were more correctly police matters.

Be interesting to see any examples of people caught up in the net but many would be afraid to go public or advised by their legal advisers not to go to the press. Maybe more will come forward through the "social media".

I thought we were just cutting through the rhetoric in this thread and getting some hard facts rather than opinions based possibly on shadows.

[nugge t]

Or there may have been other forces at work. We have seen Police Forces obstructing their incumbent Government's pet areas that the Commissioner may not have favoured and governments interfering on what were more correctly police matters.

Be interesting to see any examples of people caught up in the net but many would be afraid to go public or advised by their legal advisers not to go to the press. Maybe more will come forward through the "social media".

I thought we were just cutting through the rhetoric in this thread and getting some hard facts rather than opinions based possibly on shadows.

Not really interested about his political abitions. Thought we were "cutting through the rhetoric in this thread and getting some hard facts rather than opinions based possibly on shadows"

Funny how this has been said several times and yet I am the ONLY ONE who has supplied ANY cold hard facts. such as the number of arrests under current legislation as opposed to the old legislation.

Others have been happy to support the guy CLAIMING to have been stopped 21 times no one has any evidence to support it.

"Be interesting to see any examples of people caught up in the net but many would be afraid to go public or advised by their legal advisers not to go to the press. Maybe more will come forward through the "social media". "

None would be more interested than me but the one who apparently has gone public has now disappeared. WHY? What evidence do you have to support your comment that many woud be afraid to go public, given that we are looking for hard facts, not opinions based possibly on shadows? If I was stopped 21 times I wouldn't need legal opinion.

Are you sure you don't want to let it go? Nobody enjoys somebody continually kicking own goals and it is getting boring even for me :D

[blitz]

ANd I say again, not a murmur about Labour doing zip even though, by the claims of several on here that the existing laws are adequate. If they are adequate, shouldn't the debate for the last 20 years been.....why hasn't the Govt fixed this problem?

I believe the labor party tried in 2009 but the LNP totally refused to endorse it - from my understanding easy enough to look up.

So bottom line they want it too. As said earlier on in this post this is where the fringe parties will thrive because the big 2 both agree on it, only 'politics' stops labor from agreeing publicly as far as I can see it.

[olbod]

Wayne in the real world there is such things as police harrasment as has been reported on many occasions.
I am not suggesting this would happen to that 21times bloke but if I was him I would be worried and go to ground.
After all he did make them look like dickheads by over reacting to the extent they did with the backup.
THE POLICE BLOKE APPOLOGISED !!!
You must not watch the news or take it in or its not reported in your area but there have been many protests of being targeted unfairly by individuals and groups. There have been many street protests which have been peaceful due to the fact that they are law abbiding folk, so not really news worthy.

I approve of this crackdown on criminal gangs, nothing else has worked so bust their heads.
But nine times out of ten Police tend to over react, I think and this gets the public offside. I blame that on poor leadership and training.

I have given my views on the POLICE STATE in other threads.

[blitz]

Australian Council for Civil Liberties president Terry O'Gorman says not even a judge can hear the evidence against an accused criminal organisation.
"The attorney-general just listed 26 motorcycle clubs and said 'I'm now declaring them criminal organisations'," Mr O'Gorman told AAP.
"There's nothing stopping him declaring any group as a criminal organisation, and we have no clear reason."

This sort of thing is why it is a bad law, no ability for scrutiny

So to get back on target of this post, if you are targeted as a tradie and lose your trade license it would appear that there is no come back or in fact natural justice.

[nugge t]

Wayne in the real world there is such things as police harrasment as has been reported on many occasions.
I am not suggesting this would happen to that 21times bloke but if I was him I would be worried and go to ground.
After all he did make them look like dickheads by over reacting to the extent they did with the backup.
THE POLICE BLOKE APPOLOGISED !!!
You must not watch the news or take it in or its not reported in your area but there have been many protests of being targeted unfairly by individuals and groups. There have been many street protests which have been peaceful due to the fact that they are law abbiding folk, so not really news worthy.

I approve of this crackdown on criminal gangs, nothing else has worked so bust their heads.
But nine times out of ten Police tend to over react, I think and this gets the public offside. I blame that on poor leadership and training.

I have given my views on the POLICE STATE in other threads.

Please read previous posts where I posted exactly what he said.

Sorry mate but, Yawn. Leave you to it Robert.

[bobslandies]

None would be more interested than me but the one who apparently has gone public has now disappeared. WHY? What evidence do you have to support your comment that many woud be afraid to go public, given that we are looking for hard facts, not opinions based possibly on shadows? If I was stopped 21 times I wouldn't need legal opinion.

He got an apology from Commissioner Stewart, maybe that was enough.

Are you sure you don't want to let it go? Nobody enjoys somebody continually kicking own goals and it is getting boring even for me :D

Let's see what develops. Younger people may be more inclined to go public because of their perceived injustice and they now have social media. Plenty are advised to shut up, others fear even further "harrassment" .

No point in people who could be working on their Land Rovers:cool: creating friction over it though:(

[bob10]

how do you think the bikie laws will go in the high court, after this. Bob


No Cookies | The Courier-Mail (http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/breaking-news/qld-out-of-options-on-robert-fardon/story-fnihsfrf-1226802760660)

[Tombie]

Ok, here's some points...

The legislation is being abused.

To stop a group of VVMC riders and make them remove clothing to inspect tattoos is not only invasion of privacy, and abuse of power, to harass VVs and treat them like that is just plain ****ing disgraceful.

And yes, i have several friends who live in Qld and ride a Suzuki Cruiser, these groups have been stopped multiple times in recent weeks and questioned, often for around 45-60 minutes, had IDs checked, bikes examined, and pervasive questions...

How stopping ordinary people and wasting their leisure time can be considered acceptable is beyond me...

If it *was* to become "Outlaw 4wd clubs" - how would you feel if every time you went out you spent 45min being ostracised on the side of the road in public view (and being unfairly judged by same).

This is the basis of a legal system that protects it's citizens.
The freedoms it grants also, as a side effect, provides avenues for the corrupt who strive to bend the rules or flaunt the laws.

[Tombie]

Pizza boy:
http://m.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/police-grilled-pizza-delivery-guy-not-outlaw-claims-lawyer-in-yandina-five-case/story-fnihsrf2-1226796107666

[bob10]

From the courier mail Thursday. " Premier Campbell Newman has defended his use of a cancer analogy to explain the phasing out of the controversial anti- bikie laws. He said, " we use chemotherapy & radiation to rid a patients body of cancer, but once the cancer is eliminated from the body we don't keep taking chemotherapy drugs " There is no end to this man, there is so much that can be said about that statement, but I am being a good boy, Bob

[Chucaro]

.................................................. ............... There is no end to this man, there is so much that can be said about that statement, but I am being a good boy, Bob

Obviously you are drinking decaf :D

[bob10]

Obviously you are drinking decaf :D


Mr Chucaro, I am trying very hard to have a balanced view of what's happening in Qld at the moment. I have always believed in giving everyone a fair go. If Newman does not pull his head in soon, word on the street is, we could be marching. And that comes from people who voted for his party as well as rusted on Labour voters. I do not advocate that. I will say no more, I promised Pedro. Bob

[Tombie]

The legislation falters, as it did in SA, with the result.

In our city there are 2 clubs.

You could see the boys out and about, they always wore their cuts.

From the legislation (now overturned) and the subsequent police response - these people now wear no Cut, conduct themselves in cars and 4wdrives.

Now, unless you know who they are you wouldn't pick them!

As for tattoos, many heavily tattooed persons in this city aren't in any way connected to clubs - we just have a lot of inked people!

We also have a huge number of Harley Davidson owners (and Triumphs).

Should legislation prevent these people from:
- riding without being harassed
- congregating
- having tattoos


And a side thought...
In my youth (& even now) I was offered various forms of narcotic.
I choose not to partake.

The people who deal are often "filling a vacuum" - people looking for drugs, will seek them out. Just as alcoholics seek out bars.

Perhaps we should look at the other Ferals of society, those who destroy innocent lives...
Rock Spiders, Rapists, Spouse and Child beaters...

[bob10]

The legislation falters, as it did in SA, with the result.

In our city there are 2 clubs.

You could see the boys out and about, they always wore their cuts.

From the legislation (now overturned) and the subsequent police response - these people now wear no Cut, conduct themselves in cars and 4wdrives.

Now, unless you know who they are you wouldn't pick them!

As for tattoos, many heavily tattooed persons in this city aren't in any way connected to clubs - we just have a lot of inked people!

We also have a huge number of Harley Davidson owners (and Triumphs).

Should legislation prevent these people from:
- riding without being harassed
- congregating
- having tattoos


And a side thought...
In my youth (& even now) I was offered various forms of narcotic.
I choose not to partake.

The people who deal are often "filling a vacuum" - people looking for drugs, will seek them out. Just as alcoholics seek out bars.

Perhaps we should look at the other Ferals of society, those who destroy innocent lives...
Rock Spiders, Rapists, Spouse and Child beaters...


Well said, Bob.

[bob10]

I can not believe there has not been a comment on this post I made earlier. I can't say much more, I promised. Bob


THE Queensland government will not challenge the release of a notorious sex offender in the High Court.
Acting Attorney-General David Crisafulli says legal advice provided to the government on the release of Robert John Fardon is that they "just can't win".
Fardon was released into supervised accommodation in December after the Court of Appeal rejected the Newman government's efforts to keep him locked up.
He has spent most of his adult life in prison for sex offences against women and girls dating back to 1967, when he was 18.
In 2003 he became the first prisoner detained indefinitely - subject to periodic review - under new laws designed to keep the state's worst prisoners locked up.
Upon being released late last year, Fardon was subject to a 24-hour curfew and forced to sport a tracking device.
Following Queensland's loss in the Court of Appeal, the government sought advice on challenging Fardon's release in Australia's highest court.
However, Mr Crisafulli said on Wednesday night the government was out of options.
"We did everything we could but some of Queensland's top silks, including the Solicitor-General, all advised we were out of options," he said in a statement.
Mr Crisafulli said Fardon was only allowed out for essential trips accompanied by an escort and couldn't leave his front door without permission.
"We didn't want him out in the first place," he said.
It was now a matter of keeping him on a very tight leash, Mr Crisfulli added.
The first stages of Fardon's release started in October, when Supreme Court Justice Peter Lyons deemed Fardon fit for release.
The move prompted an immediate appeal.
The attorney-general Jarrod Bleijie also rushed through contentious "Plan B" laws that gave him power to overrule court orders releasing dangerous prisoners if it was in the public's interest.
But the Court of Appeal dismissed Mr Bleijie's appeal in December and declared his legal amendments invalid.
Before he walked out of jail in December, Fardon had been granted release twice before.
However, on each occasion he was returned to custody for breaking court orders.

[Tombie]

Now that's a failure of the law!

[V8Ian]

I can not believe there has not been a comment on this post I made earlier. I can't say much more, I promised. Bob


THE Queensland government will not challenge the release of a notorious sex offender in the High Court.
Acting Attorney-General David Crisafulli says legal advice provided to the government on the release of Robert John Fardon is that they "just can't win".
Fardon was released into supervised accommodation in December after the Court of Appeal rejected the Newman government's efforts to keep him locked up.
He has spent most of his adult life in prison for sex offences against women and girls dating back to 1967, when he was 18.
In 2003 he became the first prisoner detained indefinitely - subject to periodic review - under new laws designed to keep the state's worst prisoners locked up.
Upon being released late last year, Fardon was subject to a 24-hour curfew and forced to sport a tracking device.
Following Queensland's loss in the Court of Appeal, the government sought advice on challenging Fardon's release in Australia's highest court.
However, Mr Crisafulli said on Wednesday night the government was out of options.
"We did everything we could but some of Queensland's top silks, including the Solicitor-General, all advised we were out of options," he said in a statement.
Mr Crisafulli said Fardon was only allowed out for essential trips accompanied by an escort and couldn't leave his front door without permission.
"We didn't want him out in the first place," he said.
It was now a matter of keeping him on a very tight leash, Mr Crisfulli added.
The first stages of Fardon's release started in October, when Supreme Court Justice Peter Lyons deemed Fardon fit for release.
The move prompted an immediate appeal.
The attorney-general Jarrod Bleijie also rushed through contentious "Plan B" laws that gave him power to overrule court orders releasing dangerous prisoners if it was in the public's interest.
But the Court of Appeal dismissed Mr Bleijie's appeal in December and declared his legal amendments invalid.
Before he walked out of jail in December, Fardon had been granted release twice before.
However, on each occasion he was returned to custody for breaking court orders.
When I read that article, Bob, I thought about this thread. If the AG hasn't resigned over this defeat, why would he resign when the High Court turfs out the bikie BS laws?

[bob10]

When I read that article, Bob, I thought about this thread. If the AG hasn't resigned over this defeat, why would he resign when the High Court turfs out the bikie BS laws?


Read Condons books. The darkness descends. Bob

[V8Ian]

Read Condons books. The darkness descends. Bob
I've read the first one, Kings, I know some other names that could have been mentioned.
I knew Arthur Pitts personally, a true gentleman and as straight as a die. His name should never have been sullied by the corrupt scum, as it was.

[bobslandies]

I've read the first one, Kings, I know some other names that could have been mentioned.
I knew Arthur Pitts personally, a true gentleman and as straight as a die. His name should never have been sullied by the corrupt scum, as it was.

Nor should Commissioner Ray Whitrod have had to sleep with a revolver under his pillow when he was being "difficult" over the appointment by Bjelke-Petersen of Terry Lewis as his Assistant Commissioner (had deputy).

[V8Ian]

Nor should Commissioner Ray Whitrod have had to sleep with a revolver under his pillow when he was being "difficult" over the appointment by Bjelke-Petersen of Terry Lewis as his deputy.Fully agree.

[bob10]

I actually met terry Lewis, after he was released from jail. A friend of the family, a private investigator, who was in the drug squad in Lewis's time, invited Lewis to the Sandgate RSL for a XMAS do, our connection being our daughters went to the same school. Not going to say any more. Bob


edit... almost bitten my tongue off.

[bobslandies]

I actually met terry Lewis, after he was released from jail. A friend of the family, a private investigator, who was in the drug squad in Lewis's time, invited Lewis to the Sandgate RSL for a XMAS do, our connection being our daughters went to the same school. Not going to say any more. Bob


edit... almost bitten my tongue off.

Terry paid a very high price for his involvement while the real culprit(s) escaped. Ray Whitrod retired gracefully being such a gentleman. Tony Fitzgerald soldiers on! Noel Newnham brought in from Victoria started the process recommended by Fitzgerald.

[V8Ian]

Terry paid a very high price for his involvement while the real culprit(s) escaped. Ray Whitrod retired gracefully being such a gentleman. Tony Fitzgerald soldiers on! Noel Newnham brought in from Victoria started the process recommended by Fitzgerald.Australia still does not have enough jail space to incarcerate everyone involved in the corruption of the day.

[mox]

Regarding former Qld Police Commissioner Terry Lewis, apparently before his demise then NSW Premier "Nifty Nev" was at least considering offering him the job of Police Commissioner in NSW. Maybe because he was regarded as being so corruptible. Seems if there has been something similar to the Fitzgerald Inquiry in NSW at the time, the Qld one would have been a relatively small sideshow.


It is well recognised by politicians that you do not call an enquiry unless reasonably sure it will deliver the desired results. This is often achieved by appointing people who will effectively start with the desired conclusions and work backwards selecting information which supports them and ignoring or downplaying that which doesn't. Problem for Qld Govt was that they mistakenly appointed the wrong Mr Fitzgerald, who conducted
the process properly and did not corrupt it to help and/or protect those who gave him the job. .

[bobslandies]

Mr Justice Wood's Royal Commission only scratched the surface. Then there was the ICAC (Independent Commission Against Corruption) investigations (where the acronym was interpreted as "I Can Accuse Cops").
Now we have almost a standing Royal Commission - The Police Integrity Commission.

The only Commissioners who stand out as doing the job and having a good reputation and rapport with the public were Jim Lees, John Avery and the current Andrew Scipione with his crusade against ever-flowing alcohol. Avery's main reform to "Service" has reverted to "Force".

It is a pity Neil Taylor (who was Acting-Commissioner during the period of the Wood Royal Commission) was not confirmed as Commissioner but instead we had the Peter Ryan interlude.

[CraigE]

There is a fair bit to this IMHO. The police and govt have had enough of organised crime flaunting the law and the intimidation that goes on. Everyone should be free of this and hiding behind civil rights is a scam as well.
I am not against association, but I am neither in favour of outlaw gangs. The whole concept of outlaw gangs is they operate outside the law and this should not be tolerated.
Having said that I have a few friends that are members and would not stop being friends with them because of their choices.
I think there is a huge difference between bikie's and biker's and outlaw groups and a club or group.

[bobslandies]

I actually met terry Lewis, after he was released from jail. A friend of the family, a private investigator, who was in the drug squad in Lewis's time, invited Lewis to the Sandgate RSL for a XMAS do, our connection being our daughters went to the same school. Not going to say any more. Bob


edit... almost bitten my tongue off.

Hi Bob,

Much of Condon's information came from Lewis.

[bobslandies]

There is a fair bit to this IMHO. The police and govt have had enough of organised crime flaunting the law and the intimidation that goes on. Everyone should be free of this and hiding behind civil rights is a scam as well.
I am not against association, but I am neither in favour of outlaw gangs. The whole concept of outlaw gangs is they operate outside the law and this should not be tolerated.
Having said that I have a few friends that are members and would not stop being friends with them because of their choices.
I think there is a huge difference between bikie's and biker's and outlaw groups and a club or group.

That says it all Craig - groups like this actually also do believe in extortion, corporal and capital punishment - and carry it out ruthlessly. The rest of us are told this is unacceptable in a modern society. If they operate thumbing their noses at the rest of society why should they be protected by society's reasonable and fair rules and laws at the same time?

[V8Ian]

I'm surprised that Sir William Blackstone's 1765 statement hasn't yet been quoted.

"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

This has been a basic cornerstone of justice since before Australia was.

[bobslandies]

I'm surprised that Sir William Blackstone's 1765 statement hasn't yet been quoted.

"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

This has been a basic cornerstone of justice since before Australia was.

Unfortunately the innocent regularly get caught up in crackdowns where it is important to get quick results or clear up crimes. Once exonerated they should be suitably recompensed for their loss of income, reputation, etc not just get a "sorry".

That is one of the fair and reasonable rules and laws (and expectations and processes) we operate within. The problem is that there are serial escapees from justice who are hardly "innocent", even if they are "not guilty".

Let's face it, some criminals are out of control, whether by a policy of their group or a initiated by a self-starter.

Witnesses whose names are given to the offender's legal representatives are threatened, disappear even, or their families are threatened; evidence disappears; jurors are also targeted; now there is evidence police are under surveillance by these gangs.

[V8Ian]

Whilst I concede that some motorcycle club members are into crime, I doubt as a club it is organized. Anyone who has been on a poker run would know bike clubs cannot organize one of them properly.

[bobslandies]

That's why I put in a "self-starter":D

Sometimes, unfortunately many then can then be caught up under the doctrine of Common Purpose (or whatever it may be called in any particular jurisdiction).

[bob10]

Hi Bob,

Much of Condon's information came from Lewis.


An amusing aside [ I thought so] at that Xmas get together, we played a game called give or steal, you all take presents, put them in the middle, and take turns at selecting same. The next in turn has the option of " stealing" the present if they wish. Came to Lewis's turn, he quietly said, " well , I guess I'm obliged to steal it " , with a wry smile on his face. I've never quite known how to take my friend, after that get together, Bob

[frantic]

Just having a look at this thread and a "long bow" statement I was accused of is already half true in S.A with tombies post about OMC's change in transportation methods on the 16th. Now they are not wearing colours driving their 4bies doing the same crap, but how soon till they will don a outlaw 4x4 patch?
The other question again is how soon will Qld OMC's follow suit, I know Qld is 1hr behind but not xxyears;)

[incisor]

with a wry smile on his face. I've never quite known how to take my friend, after that get together, Bob

i went to school with his kids and they lived round the round from me in elena st rosalie till they moved up the hill to the house near the bardon water tower and i moved away to alderley so lost familiarity.

i seem to remember he had quite a sense of humour... his wife was the driving force behind him i always thought... :angel: so may be he needed it :D

[VladTepes]

i went to school with his kids and they lived round the round from me in elena st rosalie till they moved up the hill to the house near the bardon water tower

Yep pretty flash digs... wonder how he afforded that..... :lol2:

[V8Ian]

Obviously not as a bikie, Vled.

Qld&#39;s bikie laws aren&#39;t working: academic (http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2014/01/20/15/41/qld-s-bikie-laws-aren-t-working-academic)

[VladTepes]

Yes I saw that article. I also distrust academics as they are usually being paid by someone to push a point.......