D4 - 2 Year Service Cost

[LiamO]

Just had my 2 Year (34K) Service on my D4 at a Sydney Land Rover dealer. Replaced Oil & Filter, Air and Fuel Filter - $1,047 please. Ripped off or what!!!

[Tombie]

Service takes approx 3 hours...
$160/hr = $480.00
Oil is $14.00 litre x 6l = $84.00
Fuel filter
Air filter
Pollen filter

I'm guessing the above alone is $800.00 worth

Am puzzled though... 36k service is a health check... No oil change scheduled.

Not aimed at you; general comment:
Dealers must love the paranoia of modern vehicle owners, getting unnecessary oil changes...
It's like money for jam!

[LGM]

Did you get an itemised account?

If not ask for one!

[jon3950]

Service takes approx 3 hours...
$160/hr = $480.00


$200 plus in Sydney now :(

[captcam68]

G'day Liam
Ouch!! Which dealer was that? Feel your pain. Luckily I managed to get corporate thru work after a bit of wheeler dealing so no service costs for the first 3 years but went in for a " health check" after 6 months and this was normally a chargeable service which I wasn't aware of regardless of corporate. They didn't charge me however which was nice. Ps. Haven't forgotten the pics had to shoot to qld for the week.

[scarry]

$200 plus in Sydney now :(

I wish i could charge that....

A GOOD independant is what you guys need to find:)

The one i have used for over 10yrs,for all the LR's, is half the price and twice as good as the stealers!

Five years of being ripped and going back because things were half done was enough for me.:mad:

[LiamO]

It's a 2 yr. Service or xx kms which ever comes first and 'Service Required' flashes on the dash so no other choice but to pay the money.


As a ex-mechanic here's a little insight - routine filter change services like these are not carried out by a qualified mechanic in a large dealership this this. Its the a job for the apprentices and if any apprentice spends up to 3 hours to replace 3 filters he'd (or she) would be sacked!


All dealership do this but then to turn around and charge over a thousand dollars for the privilege is a rip off. Sorry...


Just for the record:
Oil Filter - $37.80
Sump Plug Ring - $12.32!!!
Oil - $135
Air Filter - $132.34
Fuel Filter - $106.76
Screen Wash - $10.44


Can't wait until it's out of warranty :)

[scarry]

Can't wait until it's out of warranty :)

Not an issue if you are a qualified mechanic or use a qualified mechanic.

Those filter prices are on the nose.......

[LiamO]

G'day Liam
Ouch!! Which dealer was that? Feel your pain. Luckily I managed to get corporate thru work after a bit of wheeler dealing so no service costs for the first 3 years but went in for a " health check" after 6 months and this was normally a chargeable service which I wasn't aware of regardless of corporate. They didn't charge me however which was nice. Ps. Haven't forgotten the pics had to shoot to qld for the week.

I won't name and shame other than they are a large Land Rover dealership based in O'Riordan St Alexandria :)

[Graeme]

It's a 2 yr. Service or xx kms which ever comes first and 'Service Required' flashes on the dash so no other choice but to pay the money.I assume that you don't own a diagnostic tool to turn off this option so suggest you pay an independent to do so. Its not as though we have the cold and wet conditions of Canada or Iceland where winter moisture contaminates the oil.

[Gribbsmy13]

I had a similar experience yesterday. I got a quote from dealer for a redarc brake controler to be fitted.... $1259. Luckily I had got quotes from tjm for $450 fitted. I can't understand why the dealers continue to try snd rip you off at every chance, it gives lr a bad name

[BMKal]

Just had my 2 Year (34K) Service on my D4 at a Sydney Land Rover dealer. Replaced Oil & Filter, Air and Fuel Filter - $1,047 please. Ripped off or what!!!

Just had the same service done last week at one of the two dealerships in Perth (2.7 litre TDV6). A few more km on mine though - ODO was 60,389.

Total Parts - $279.22
Oils / Lubricants / Supplies - $147.65
Total Labour - $457.83

[Meken]

I was frustrated at dealer quote to supply & fit trailer wiring kit for the freelander2 - thought I could work around it for cheaper via aftermarket etc - ended up back at LR dealer 3 times getting various issues sorted out that had been created by aftermarket installer not knowing the quirks of LR,s and some poor workmanship too. Overall taking into account my time & wife's frustration the original LR quote was cheaper. Make sure tjm have fitted controller to your model previously so you are not their gunea pig

[Tombie]

I had a similar experience yesterday. I got a quote from dealer for a redarc brake controler to be fitted.... $1259. Luckily I had got quotes from tjm for $450 fitted. I can't understand why the dealers continue to try snd rip you off at every chance, it gives lr a bad name


Why Redarc? Take a look at Traxide and get a kit designed to work with your vehicle.

There are more benefits to the Traxide kit too. A far superior product.

[rufusking]

Why Redarc? Take a look at Traxide and get a kit designed to work with your vehicle.

Traxide does a brake controller?

[Tombie]

Traxide does a brake controller?

Doh!!!

Excuse the idiot.... Missed a line on the phone...

[Gribbsmy13]

I can't find traxide brake controllers on the web

[Tombie]

I can't find traxide brake controllers on the web


Yes, my apology I misread my screen.

In the case of a brake controller, be very sure they know all the specifics of wiring into these vehicles as getting it wrong will cause you big problems....

[DazzaTD5]

The fuel filter is about right, Ive only found genuine for the later style, the oil filter n air is a bit rude though good grief. And again the oil price is about right (we are assuming they are using the Castrol full syth as per specs)

Regards
Daz

[tempestv8]

Just for the record:
Oil Filter - $37.80
Sump Plug Ring - $12.32!!!
Oil - $135
Air Filter - $132.34
Fuel Filter - $106.76
Screen Wash - $10.44


I had a D2 for 10 years before buying a LandCruiser 200 Series TDV8.

Interesting to compare dealer spare parts prices there. Just as a comparison, these are the Toyota dealer's pricing, from my paperwork:

Typical service items:
================
Washer additive - $1.02
Oil Filter element - $33.14
Sump Plug washer - $2.08
Oil -$130 approx for 9.5 litres (varies between dealerships), no DPF so no special oil required
Workshop sundries - $12 (rags? seat and floor paper covers?)
Engine air filter - $75 (this gets changed every 30,000 kms only)
Fuel filter $30 - this never gets changed, unless requested by customer
Screen wash - $1.02
Typical labour fee - $312.50


Miscellaneous extras not at every service:
===============================
Pollen filter for HVAC - $35 (most dealers don't touch this, unless upon request)
Diff oils - $102.92
Brake fluid $23.40
Power steering fluid flush - $110 (only upon owner's request)
Transmission fluid flush - $220 varies between dealerships, but only upon request
Wiper blades rubber inserts - $45 (ouch!) a pair
Key fob battery replacement - $12 (ouch!) each
Steering wheel alignment - $80

No timing belt changes (chain on the Toyota TDV8), no valve adjustments required, Coolant changed every 80,000 kms. No electric handbrake or air suspension systems. The 200 Series is very low tech so very few things to go wrong. Brakes seem to last a very long time - my brakes are still over 50% life after 80,000 kms. Factory OEM tyres on the 17 inch wheels last 85,000 kms easily.

[scarry]

As a comparison.....

My tojo van was serviced Saturday at the dealers(no extra charge for Sat)
$132 hr labour(1.75 hr charged)
$32.19 5l coolant done every 100k
$20.33 oil filter
$1.93 sump plug gasket
$0.87 windscreen wash
$69.3 engine oil mineral 5l

As for the LR independents,first service D4
$192 labour
$48 air filter
$33 oil filter
$99 synthetic oil(as per D4 2.7 spec)6l
$4 sundries/environmental

I recon both very reasonable,way less than any LR dealer i have been to.

[DazzaTD5]

"low tech" is not something Id describe a Toyota 1VD-FTV engine (Land Cruiser) as being. Both the 1VD-FTV and for that matter the 1KD-FTV (N70 Hilux) engines are extremely high tech engines and its shows they are both smooth running and have bag loads of torque. Strip either of the Toyota engines down for repairs, there is plenty of tech there.

The 70 series Land Cruiser though has been around since the mid 80s and is as low tech as they come, leaf sprung suspension I had thought went out with the house and cart, apparently not and the price of a 70 series wagon, isnt it round $70K?

The 200 series Land Crusier again is as high tech as most modern 4WDrives, if you think not, do a river crossing in a 200 series, the results just from a few feet of water may surprise you as will the repair bill.

*Air Suspension = Toyota Kinetic Dynamic Suspension.
*Traction Control = Toyota Multi Terrain Select, Crawl, Down Hill Assist.

Brake wear is generally a driver input thing, hard drivers will chew out pads, rotors especially on vehicles with traction control and stability control.

Engines come, engines go, some use timing belts others chains *shrugs* I guess I prefer the use of a chain (as in my TD5), Merc engines in Jeeps use a chain, Toyota V8 petrol has a belt, hilux engine has a belt, land crusier engines in past have all been a belt, land rover 2.25 (yes the old old four cylinder) used a chain, most old school american engines use a chain. Your guess is as good as mine, cost? maybe.

I believe what you do get with a Toyota is good sound R&D as in things are generally thought out very well, which makes them easy to work on so service costs maybe lower.

Compare apples to apples.....

Regards
Daz

[Tombie]

There's 6 computers in a 200 cruiser - hardly low tech.

Service interval for a 200 is 10,000km.

LR TDV6 and SDV6 is 24,000km

200 series requires oil level topped up regularly so ongoing cost.

In 100,000km a 200 will have 10 services.

In 100,000km a LR will have had 8 services.


Driver use as mentioned above has a huge influence on wear of a vehicle.

I know many who get sub 40k on Tyres. Several who seem to be always replacing brake pads and rotors.

Best of all, my corporate service pack sees me pay nothing for 3 yr/100,000km

Premium brands like it or not, come with premium prices.

Toyota go about it slightly differently - gouge you senseless on purchase price and then offer slightly better service value.

But break something out of warranty and see how the invoice looks.

[Tombie]

The other factor - if you intend to buy a used 200 TV8 or keep one beyond 150k is that the service schedule calls for fuel system replacement at 150k..

I see no such requirement in the LR schedule.

[tempestv8]

Take a chill pill guys. The point of my post was simply to compare servicing costs.

The toyota V8 is not that high tech and no more susceptible to deep water crossings than the TDV6 Dagenham motor. Put both vehicles into deep water beyond their maximum wading depth and all bets are off. I have studied this motor in some detail and its not any more high tech than any other modern diesel.

Why I said the 200 series is low tech is because it has no where near the amount of electrical complexity of the D3/D4. If the battery is very flat, it doesn't have the same sort of impact to the functioning of the vehicle.

KDSS is very simple, no electronics. No SLS, no EPB, and radio can be left on for hours without the engine failing to start. No DPFs, no fancy Terrain Response system. No constant high electrical draw on the battery.

Back to the original post, the service cost is undeniably outrageous. $1000 for a glorified oil change, so I wonder what a major service would cost. Hate to think what it would cost to take the body off to perform a rear timing belt change.

Finally, there is nothing in the Toyota service handbook that says the fuel system needs to be replaced at 150.000 kms. And oil is cheap so no big deal if it requires a top up, which it incidentally doesn't once the engine has been fully run in.

And fair point - comparing a 200 series to a D4 is not an apples to apples comparison. The two vehicles are very different in design and philosophy.

[DazzaTD5]

I guess my point was "low tech" really did end with the 100 series Land Cruiser turbo diesel engine and the Land Rover 300tdi engine, Anything after that as far as 4WDs go is high tech.

Yes, service costs do seem to be outragous from dealers for the Land Rover product yet most specialist repairers, the prices seem to float round that $400 - $500 depending on model.

Toyota with fixed price servicing does seem cheaper, although customers have told me its only to a set km's? 40K or so? Add to that, there isnt many repairers that say no to doing a service on a Toyota, so competition is the consumers friend.

You dont remove the body.... rear timing belt is done in situ, dealer price, obviously includes front belt (in Perth, no guess who there) is $2800.00

Regards
Daz

[tempestv8]

Good to know that the body does to need to come off for the rear timing belt. I think I read this somewhere on the disco3 UK forum, but that may be only applicable to LHD vehicles.

For $2800, I assume this is BOTH front & rear belts plus new oil pump! :o

Apparently if the front belt breaks when the engine is running, it's all over, red Rover. But if the rear belt breaks, the engine just stops, no damage.

I haven't been on this forum in some time but have come back as I am doing some research into the reliability and cost of maintenance of the TDV6 motor. Would like to see if I can get into a D4 for the missus when the used prices come down some more, especially when the new model arrives. :)

Thanks for all the useful info.

[Graeme]

The rear belt is only for the HP fuel pump and is not timed and the new oil pump housing is only needed for up to a particular model year. My 3.0 D4 will be due for new belts in about 12 months and I'll be doing the job myself.

[justinc]

Graeme, hope you are built slightly in the arms etc, reaching that FP belt is a nightmare:mad::mad::mad:, could be done in half the time with about 50mm more clearance....
Get yourself a good LED torch and mirror, too.

JC

[Graeme]

I've been doing a bit of reading although for a D3 rather than a D4 so could be worse again. Slight build yes but still manage to remove plenty of skin from the backs of my hands and arms. I noticed that some people don't lock the crankshaft to avoid having to R&R the starter but that's asking for poor timing.

[justinc]

I've been doing a bit of reading although for a D3 rather than a D4 so could be worse again. Slight build yes but still manage to remove plenty of skin from the backs of my hands and arms. I noticed that some people don't lock the crankshaft to avoid having to R&R the starter but that's asking for poor timing.

I don't lock the crank, I mark it and lock the cams. the only time this isn't applicable is with non common rail engines IME.

And yes; I bleed, you pay more:twisted:

jc

[DazzaTD5]

Re what graeme said re rear belt drives hp, no timing, and oil pump.

heh.... I have both a mirror, good LED torches, have a mind that works in reverse.... and have done quite a number of them now to be able to have the time to think "and why am I working on Land Rovers???" ..... cuz I love it!! and Im just that little bit more out there, I also work on Freelanders lol lol, thank godness its Friday.

Every now and then I see comment that are just way over the top, one being the "oh remove body to do timing belt" and the other was remove engine on a 70 series V8 to change the starter motor..... both lets face it are slightly out there.......

Re poor timing, I never remove the starter motor...... I have been through this with countless people..... tell me how it can possibly be out, its a arguement I have had many many times, understand how it all works and then come back. Ive not had a "odd running" tdv6 nor a failure since the D3, RRS has been out.

the dealer $2800... you can do a lot lot better from a specialist Land Rover repairer, at a min remove $1000 ........

[justinc]

Re what graeme said re rear belt drives hp, no timing, and oil pump.

heh.... I have both a mirror, good LED torches, have a mind that works in reverse.... and have done quite a number of them now to be able to have the time to think "and why am I working on Land Rovers???" ..... cuz I love it!! and Im just that little bit more out there, I also work on Freelanders lol lol, thank godness its Friday.

Every now and then I see comment that are just way over the top, one being the "oh remove body to do timing belt" and the other was remove engine on a 70 series V8 to change the starter motor..... both lets face it are slightly out there.......

Re poor timing, I never remove the starter motor...... I have been through this with countless people..... tell me how it can possibly be out, its a arguement I have had many many times, understand how it all works and then come back. Ive not had a "odd running" tdv6 nor a failure since the D3, RRS has been out.

the dealer $2800... you can do a lot lot better from a specialist Land Rover repairer, at a min remove $1000 ........


dazza, these are banned from my workplace:D:D:D


jc

[Graeme]

If the belt has any stretch or the notches are worn just a little then the crankshaft can be off its mark, probably not by much and probably not enough to notice the performance difference especially being a 3.0 although fuel consumption could suffer but repeat the process each time the belt is changed and the valve timing can get further and further retarded. Removing the starter to change the turbo drain pipe took a little time but refitting it was quick, knowing exactly what was needed. I'll take the extra time to R&R the starter to ensure the valve timing is spot-on. With the crankshaft pin fitted, if the camshaft pins go in then I'll know that I've wasted my time.

I indeed have a work mirror on an extendable handle along with a good work lights. I'm hoping my tendency to memorise difficult procedures will reduce the need to see what's being done.

[Tombie]

And oil is cheap so no big deal if it requires a top up, which it incidentally doesn't once the engine has been fully run in.


Sorry but on the point above - hundreds of owners will disagree with that one... :)

You're experience with the LC200 is very different to your last 4wd because your use of the vehicle is completely different to what you did in the last one!!!


What I find funny is that people baulk at the pricing of a service on a highly technical vehicle, where just checking each item, connection, link etc can take a significant time, and then to diagnose comes with a significant outlay in hardware and software...

Of course rear places are going to charge more, that's why the showroom looks great, why the workshops are large, technically up to date, EPA compliant, subject to OH&S audits, have multiple work bays, loan vehicles etc...

Compare this to a smaller operation and one can easily see that the running costs, overheads and price per unit costs will be significantly different.


And then the people who want to buy these vehicles often run decent 6 figure salaries.

How many of you would want to earn less than you do now? We live in a country where most people are very well paid (compared to many places OS)?

Well the dealer principle wants the same, his workers want decent wages, and to get this - his clients expect a high profile showroom and service centre.

I would hope a quality mechanic is paid $40-$45 an hour.
After payroll tax, super, etc and another staff member to process said legal requirements it all adds up!!!
That $160+ labour charge gets eaten up pretty quick!

When looked at like this it's easy to understand the pricing structure.


Toyota, hasn't built a vehicle with an original idea in it for decades - it's all a knock off of pioneers in motor engineering - and using old, outdated tech in other areas. Toyota almost give vehicles to mining companies - and gouge the public on theirs!

Their showrooms are simple, and the service department has techs who service everything from a Lexus to a Yaris - they still have huge overheads but are subsidized for services for 60,000km etc combined with a larger product range and the economy of scale improves.

Applying this same logic, computer companies are thieves, software companies pirates, and IT support companies Rapists...

Seen the rates these service companies slug? Or how much a mass produced Silicone chip is priced at?

Priced a big screen Tv? If you went to the buyers markets OS and found out how much they cost you would cringe! But we pay without issue...

Mind set is interesting!

[DazzaTD5]

dazza, these are banned from my workplace:D:D:D


jc

lol ohhhh come on am I the only Land Rover guy that works on Freelanders?? I know 2 in Perth wont touch them, but thats only because they are old and grumpy!! I just see them as like working on a Toyota Rav 4, just not-so-well-thought-out............

Apart from the 2.5lt and coolant leaks, the engine rattles, slip liners, oil leaks, perhaps some transmission issues, driveline "issues".... did I mention driveline issues.....(wont mention ABS issues, thats all Land Rovers isnt it??) I think I might like them.....

Its all about care and maintenance, the poor Freelander gets hammered.... I think I might go post in the Freelander section.... there is a Freelander section right?????

Regards
Daz

[DazzaTD5]

If the belt has any stretch or the notches are worn just a little then the crankshaft can be off its mark (snipped)

Absolutely spot on, I dont argue this point at all, but (not meaning to tell anyone how to suck eggs) Although you know that maybe the belt has stretched or worn to a degree it hasnt worn a tooth out and as anyone that is doing it for a living (another words, doing it all the time) can understand, that yes when you are fitting the new belt, you are doing that slight move etc etc to get it fitted. Generally timing belts I have ever done, Ive always set it up as per specs, then I do the paint marks on the gears, old belt, housing where available, the paint marks get put onto the new belt, Yes when the new belt goes on, you do sometimes find the marks are slightly off (we are talking mm here) due to the fact the new belt basically is shorter etc etc etc.....

The end result the timing fuel or valve cant be out, I understand your point but with the new belt you have set it back to its original spec. pretty well every TB I've done on a D3, RRS, at that what 160 - 180, 200K looked like new.

There is a lot of generalisation and assumptions in what I have said, as in Im only commenting from a repairers point of view....

Regards
Daz

[Graeme]

Daz, do you loosen the bolts on one or both camshafts? If not then you're safe, assuming the timing was already correct.

[scarry]

What I find funny is that people baulk at the pricing of a service on a highly technical vehicle, where just checking each item, connection, link etc can take a significant time, and then to diagnose comes with a significant outlay in hardware and software.


And then the people who want to buy these vehicles often run decent 6 figure salaries.


But you still have to get value for money,no matter how much your earnings are.

For me,i don't mind paying the big bucks,but if you don't get the good quality workmanship to go with it,well it isn't good value at all...

I have found the quality of the workmanship does not match the price.

If my independant charged the same price as the dealers,i would still stick with the inde.

And small businesses still have enormous overheads.

Ask someone who has owned one for over 23yrs;)

Its often the case they can operate more efficiently,the larger the organisation,inefficiency seems to creap in,which leads to overcharging.

Oh,and maybe they have sorted the LC200 TD,mate of mine has had one for almost two yrs,never used a drop of oil,and he tows a huge van.

[Tombie]

I know, I ran a hydraulics specialist business for 13 years... 😃

And value is a perception thing 😀

[Tombie]

Interesting on the LC200..
Seems a bit hit and miss. Although one of the newer ones at work uses less than the one it replaced.

[rumman43]

If it makes ya feel less alone. I picked up my D4 yesterday, same service at $975.

I was a bit shocked as well..

Ill be looking around and getting quotes next time.

[Tombie]

Mines heading in for its 48k Tuesday week,
Plus a genuine windscreen replacement...

Windscreen has been quoted:
$996 inc installation kit
$350 fitting

I think that's pretty good value - especially when insurance co is picking up the tab :)

[LiamO]

If it makes ya feel less alone. I picked up my D4 yesterday, same service at $975.

I was a bit shocked as well..

Ill be looking around and getting quotes next time.

Just wondering if they replaced the Air Filter? Just re-checked my invoice and they only replaced the Pollen Filter in the Cabin, not the Air Filter which I just checked and it's filthy!!

[DazzaTD5]

No I dont, I assume from what Justinc said, we both do it the same way. I think we can assume the manufacturers original setup would be correct. by marking it you have a ref point anyway.

I never bag out dealer or large workshop hourly rates or their practices. Even in small business there is plenty of overheads, running costs, outlay of stock waiting for jobs, insurance etc etc etc. Also having an apprentice work on a customers car for servicing used to be the norm "back in my day" (apprentices do have to start somewhere) but there was always a tradie to smack you around the ears after checking on your work. Large businesses often have what we called "lubies" and all they did was vehicle servicing, again a lot werent tradies. You are not paying a "tradesmans rate", you are paying a "workshop rate" regardless who is working on your vehicle.

Regards
Daz

[tempestv8]

Just wondering if they replaced the Air Filter? Just re-checked my invoice and they only replaced the Pollen Filter in the Cabin, not the Air Filter which I just checked and it's filthy!!

Filthy air filter???


Just had my 2 Year (34K) Service on my D4 at a Sydney Land Rover dealer. Replaced Oil & Filter, Air and Fuel Filter - $1,047 please. Ripped off or what!!!

And



Just for the record:
Oil Filter - $37.80
Sump Plug Ring - $12.32!!!
Oil - $135
Air Filter - $132.34
Fuel Filter - $106.76
Screen Wash - $10.44


Wasn't the air filter in your itemised invoice? :confused:

If they missed such a basic item, what else did they not do but charged you for?

[scarry]

If they missed such a basic item, what else did they not do but charged you for?

Someone on here once(maybe DaveBlknight) was charged for spark plugs for a TD5:o

Pays to check the invoice.
We were recently charged for expensive diesel oil on one of our petrol vans....

What does annoy me is paying for a tyre rotation when the vehicle is on a hoist,and all the wheels will be off anyway to check the brakes.:(

And yes the local Tojo agent does use apprentices to do a lot of the servicing.I am not against this as long as they are supervised correctly,as others have said they have to start somewhere.But,the customer should be charged apprentice rates.Charging at full tradesmans rate is a blattent rip off.:mad:

In our game we charge apprentices at a much lower rate,often half of trade,which is fair and reasonable.

Just think about it,the apprentice,depending what year they are,would probably be getting less than $20/hr.In fact a first year will be getting around $10/hr.

Now if the dealer is charging close to $200/hr(LR dealer as an example),that is definitely a blatant rip.

Something needs to be done about it.

[DazzaTD5]

The end of the day its a consumers choice as to where they want to take their vehicle and or to decide the extra cost at a dealer versas extra cost (maybe) if something goes wrong (generally, I've not read the Jaguar Land Rover Warranty).

I do my fair share of new vehicle "logbook servicing" on both Land Rover, Jeep and customers have never had a problem claiming warranty when something faults. Using a licensed, qualified repairer following manufacturers service requirements and there should never be a problem with any warranty claim. The average same service cost through a specialist is about half that dealer price.

Vehicle owners are making the choice to move away from dealers and its being noticed. Toyota with their fixed price servicing, Im sure there are other brands doing the same thing. Some dealer prices are also seemingly competative, recently one of my regulars gave me a quote from a Chrysler dealer to service their Jeep Grand Cherokee, same as what I charge, which used to be about half the dealer cost.

Regards
Daz

[Graeme]

No I dont, I assume from what Justinc said, we both do it the same way. I think we can assume the manufacturers original setup would be correct. by marking it you have a ref point anyway.
OK & thanks. I understood that the cam pulleys had to be released to at least get the new belt on but obviously not, for the experienced at least. Then only have to watch out for being a tooth out on the crankshaft - easily spotted with decent markings.

[LiamO]

Filthy air filter???



And



Wasn't the air filter in your itemised invoice? :confused:

If they missed such a basic item, what else did they not do but charged you for?

Presumed it was the Air Filter that they charged for but it was a bloody pollen filter!!. No idea why u would change the cabin pollen filter and ignore the Air Filter in a diesel engine. Clowns!!!!

[Tombie]

Simple - Air cleaner service schedule is 72k and 144k except in arduous conditions.
A dirty filter isn't a bad filter, often it's more effective at filtering than a new one.

So no, it's not due to be done yet!

The pollen filter is due every service...

[Mr smokey]

Just had my 50,000 service. Brake pads needed replacing. $2,248.40 (Inc gst) thank you very much :o:o next time it won't be at the dealer. I did get a nice torch and a wash as a bonus. :confused:

[Tombie]

Just had my 50,000 service. Brake pads needed replacing. $2,248.40 (Inc gst) thank you very much :o:o next time it won't be at the dealer. I did get a nice torch and a wash as a bonus. :confused:


What are you complaining about?

Not a bad price including brakes. And you only needed 1/2 the number of services. [emoji41]

Are you heavy footed braking wise? Mine are at 78k and still on factory pads at 50% and rotors. And I tow and brake pretty solidly.

[LandyAndy]

What are you complaining about?

Not a bad price including brakes. And you only needed 1/2 the number of services. [emoji41]

Are you heavy footed braking wise? Mine are at 78k and still on factory pads at 50% and rotors. And I tow and brake pretty solidly.

Shrek
You are in my position.We drive lots of country km.
I can see these things chewing up brakes if they are city cars,heavy vehicles with very good brakes.I dont heavy brake in practice,but in the city one is forced to due to tossers who think that carspace I choose to leave is for 2 cars to jump into:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
Andrew

[LRD414]

A dirty filter isn't a bad filter, often it's more effective at filtering than a new one.
Tombie, I can't figure out how effectiveness could improve with a dusty filter?

Scott

[DazzaTD5]

Just had my 50,000 service. Brake pads needed replacing. $2,248.40 (Inc gst) thank you very much :o:o next time it won't be at the dealer. I did get a nice torch and a wash as a bonus. :confused:

Yet at an indy Land Rover repairer, that price would prolly be around a $1000 less.. ($440 for the service, $460 for the pads??).

With all due respect, I generally find looking in the D3/D4/RRS part of the forum a bit frustrating. It seems D3/D4 etc owners seem to wait until they have been burnt a number of times before looking elsewhere for service and repairs.

One of the biggest comments I here from these owners are:
*I'm waiting for it to be out of warranty (rather than look after the vehicle for that first important 100K).
*Oh well the service schedule is half as much, in ref to 20K service requirements. (understand once you have purchased the vehicle, its not owned by Land Rover anymore, even if it never got an oil change it will still last until out of warranty).
*Gov employees: it doesnt cost them for servicing (I guess the tax payer is lumping that bill) and every single vehicle I've inspected after a "corporate service" .....I guess the oil had been changed, but thats about it.

I dont think there is a state in Australia that doesnt have at least one KNOWN GOOD indy Land Rover repairer.

Ask any Land Rover repairer (me included) what they repair the most, guarranteed they will say "D3, D4, RRS" ..... turbos, new engines, diffs etc etc....... yes the 20K service intervals seem to work right?

just a rant, nothing more, no offense intended.

Regards
Daz

[DazzaTD5]

Tombie, I can't figure out how effectiveness could improve with a dusty filter?

Scott

This is an old age argument, the paper gets blocked a bit therefor it filters better, there will be all sorts of info about it on the internut.... which we know is full of just the facts right? (but lets not open that can of worms).

No I dont subscribe to this thought, every vehicle that comes in for service I (at 10,000KM) change out the air filter and fuel filter regardless.

Regards
Daz

[Mr smokey]

What are you complaining about?

Not a bad price including brakes. And you only needed 1/2 the number of services. [emoji41]

Are you heavy footed braking wise? Mine are at 78k and still on factory pads at 50% and rotors. And I tow and brake pretty solidly.

Just a hell of a shock to the system as it was more than the cost of most cars I have owned over the years:p On going through the detailed invoice it seems reasonable. I wouldn't classify myself as a heavy braker ( more a doddering old fart) but it has been mainly city driving and towing a large van on trips. I had heard of others having to do the pads at around that mileage so was not surprised when they rang me. So far I am still most pleased with my choice :):)

[Geedublya]

On my wife's car I was advised by the dealer on three consecutive services that the pads required replacement. I finally replaced pads and rotors before the fourth service 50K after the first advice.
On my D4 the Indy I use advised that I needed rear pads and rotors when I checked the pads where getting close however the rotors were less than half way through their allowable wear.

Brakes are easy money for dealers and mechanics, nice margins on parts and nobody argues as they are a safety item.

[Melbourne Park]

I wonder how much Midas charge for the brakes?

I have often used Midas for brakes ... they try to use Australian rotors, which can be better. However for the Mercedes, they said local ones would be noisy ... so they put in Mercedes rotors. It cost $100 less ...

They claim fluid prices are the same as with Toyota ..

I had a 60k service on an RX 350 Lexus. It was though, 6 years old. They changed the plugs, and could not get one out ... they broke the plug and had to drill it out, and re-thread. Fortunately, it worked. No need for a new head ... They did not charge for the time or parts for that plug ... they also changed the pads on the front ... and charged $300 for doing so. The alignment cost $100 too ... it was due though.

All up including the front pads and the alignment, it cost $1,800. Not cheap IMO. I had a V6 Camry serviced at Toyota two years ago - they charged $1150.

The thing that upsets me about LR servicing though, is the cost of the oil.

I want the best oil though, and I am doing some towing too, so I regard oil as more critical than most. I'll change the auto tranny sometime too, and I'll have the diff oils changed too. I think if one has an engine issue, then one has to ensure the same oil that Land Rover use at their dealerships, is the one used by an indy ...

[scarry]

What i can't work out is how our work Hiaces,which are loaded,almost on GVM all the time,do mostly around town work,have always done over 300k before the brakes need touching.

In fact a mate of mine,in the same industry as us,just sold his at 350k,still on it's original brakes.

Sure, they are manuals,don't tow anything,and don't have much power,but the brakes are very good,yet seem to last for ever.

My D4 has done around 50k and the pads are around half worn,front and rear.The D2's i had always needed pads at less than 100k.

[justinc]

What i can't work out is how our work Hiaces,which are loaded,almost on GVM all the time,do mostly around town work,have always done over 300k before the brakes need touching.

In fact a mate of mine,in the same industry as us,just sold his at 350k,still on it's original brakes.

Sure, they are manuals,don't tow anything,and don't have much power,but the brakes are very good,yet seem to last for ever.

My D4 has done around 50k and the pads are around half worn,front and rear.The D2's i had always needed pads at less than 100k.

I regularly see d3 and 4's with no pads left at 50k. You must be a light braker ☺

[DazzaTD5]

Yep as Justin mentioned, D3 / D4 doing brakes round that 50K or up a bit seems the norm.

But I see this with any vehicle (I do Jeep as well) that has stability control and traction control if driven hard.

While light vehicles such as small run arounds or vans (small) such as the hiace will generally be better on brake pads, bluntly.... 350K on original pads? couldnt believe that to be possible, I'd believe 100K before needing pads, no Hiace I ever worked on up north ever had pads last that long.

I don't see brake pad wear as a vehicle fault, I think its fair and reasonable if you drive a 2 ton plus "block of flats" hard its going to wear out pads. If the pads are too hard then excessive rotor wear will also occur. I'd rather chew out pads more than wear down the rotors excessively.

What I also see a lot of is vehicles coming in with new brake pads, yet when I measure the brake rotor thickness they are undersize, to me its pretty inexcusable for a repairer (or home handyman) to slap on pads and not measure brake rotor thickness or test the brake fluid for moisture content as per the Australian Standard (which is to a max of 4% moisture content).

regardless if its a repairer or a home handyman, its not acceptable to be ignorant of how brakes actually function and why its therefor important to measure rotor thickness and test the brake fluid on regular service intervals.

Regards
Daz

[AndyG]

I have no problem paying a decent labour rate so the tradesman/ technician /mechanic can take home a decent pay packet. And yes those flash dealer workshop's cost real money.

But what gets my goat is the outrageous mark on consumables and parts. 30 - 50% on their buy price should be ample, not move the decimal point.
What would a dealer pay for oil in a 1000 litre drum for example.

[scarry]

Yep as Justin mentioned, D3 / D4 doing brakes round that 50K or up a bit seems the norm.

But I see this with any vehicle (I do Jeep as well) that has stability control and traction control if driven hard.

While light vehicles such as small run arounds or vans (small) such as the hiace will generally be better on brake pads, bluntly.... 350K on original pads? couldnt believe that to be possible, I'd believe 100K before needing pads, no Hiace I ever worked on up north ever had pads last that long.

I don't see brake pad wear as a vehicle fault, I think its fair and reasonable if you drive a 2 ton plus "block of flats" hard its going to wear out pads. If the pads are too hard then excessive rotor wear will also occur. I'd rather chew out pads more than wear down the rotors excessively.

What I also see a lot of is vehicles coming in with new brake pads, yet when I measure the brake rotor thickness they are undersize, to me its pretty inexcusable for a repairer (or home handyman) to slap on pads and not measure brake rotor thickness or test the brake fluid for moisture content as per the Australian Standard (which is to a max of 4% moisture content).

regardless if its a repairer or a home handyman, its not acceptable to be ignorant of how brakes actually function and why its therefor important to measure rotor thickness and test the brake fluid on regular service intervals.

Regards
Daz

Mate,i have three on the road now,all bought new,all well over 250k on the clock,brakes have heaps left,and all weigh around 2700kg on the scales,not light at all.The others with over 300k passed roadworthy,have been moved on.

If you don't believe me,you can have a look yourself.

In fact if you want the phone no. of the mate who's did 350k,send me a PM and you can call him.

And two are driven by guys in their twenties,but they aren't flogged.

JC is correct,i am pretty easy on mine,as i am with most vehicles:)

No one is saying brake pad or for that matter rotor wear is a fault.It is a normal wear and tear issue for any vehicle.

The main issue is high pad and rotor wear increases vehicle repairs and therefore costs.

[Melbourne Park]

I think that because vans have different safety standards, their brakes can last longer.

With my 97 Prado, its had a set of rotors only ... is got a bit over 200K on it, and quite a lot of city miles. Its a petrol auto too (they did not have diesel in 97).

The front rotors on it got vibrations, so they were honed. And hence, they needed replacements eventually. The new ones were Australian rotors, and eventually the rears went ( at around 200K).

But the vehicle brakes poorly. The 150 series Prado brakes well - the previous series did not. I do not know if a 150 will have long rotor life ... probably not nearly as good as the 97 90 series ... good braking IMO is often obtained by using softer rotors.

We should not complain though - because the bigger rotors on the Disco have given better braking - but they've lost the ability to put a 17" wheel on the vehicle, or just the GOE 18" wheel (at the moment at least).



With the Disco, it has to comply with various Euro standards ... which are likely car standards. And its setup for winter work too. So the rotors are likely softer metal than the Japanese can use. Euro tiny cars likes Golfs and Euro Ford Focus's etc burn through their rotors very quickly indeed ... Midas told me that Golfs and the their crossover Tiguan, go through a set of rotors at 40-50k. Often too, third party rotors if harder and hence more durable, will squeal i.e. be a pain to use ...

The Japanese cars IMO have much better braking life. However if one buys a Lexus IS car (an IS250 or 350) that is not a hybrid (hybrids will not need rotors replaced as the rotor brakes rarely function) then expect much short life span. Despite being Japanese, the IS is sporty and hence uses softer rotors, so that it can stop as quickly as a BMW 3 series.

[Tombie]

Simple case of performance vs life...

And of course... Physics, swept area, braking style, area of use, mass...

I tow a lot, brake hard and I'm still on factory gear at 76,000km.

I fitted Akebono to Dads D3 at 45,000km because he was told it wouldnt make the next service... I disagreed... But he wanted them changed..

[DI5CO]

Thought I would post here and bring this old thread up.
So I had my 2nd service done the other day and not feeling happy. Received the call and was busy so said go ahead with the rear brake pads etc, and even when picking the car up, I didn’t really go over the invoice. Looked at it closer when I got home.
Doesn’t look right to me!![emoji848]☹️
Car has only done 29k, 22k year 1 and 7k last year. Replacing pollen filter on 1st and then the 2nd service seems a bit rich!
Remove and replace rear brake pads then in the description remove and replace front pads??
Replaced brake fluid, tried to look when this needed to be done but could only find a US schedule where it said it should be done every 3 years, so not sure if it’s different for Aus.
Had a leak in the passenger footwell when I went through a brushless car wash where there is massive amounts of water. Let them know, they told me it went through their big machine commercial car wash and no leaks. Description says used high pressure hose??
It has never leaked again since but wanted to get it fixed under warranty.
Anyway, do the parts look right? Anyone else have an invoice handy to compare and is it worth going back to complain? Not sure if they would credit me back anyway.
I even asked the guy about activating the global closing of the windows and he assured me it couldn’t be done for Aus. Yeah I’ve looked into it and can’t be done. He didn’t seem to be interested in helping and seemed like he didn’t want to be there! Read through threads here and it seems to be able to be done. Maybe not for MY16?
Can’t wait to go back to my indi when warranty is over!!
Dave.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/03/210.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/03/211.jpg

[scarry]

My Indie does the coolant,complete flush,with new cross over plastic pipe and float in coolant tank every 5yrs.

Mine was in on Monday,Auto service and metal pan, flush with lifeguard fluid,coolant flush with crossover pipe and coolant bottle,replace one hard turbo hose,full service,oil,oil filter,fuel filter,and something else,$2K.

Which i thought wasn't bad.

Coming up in next couple of services are timing belts,battery is 4 yrs,so it will need doing,brakes are low,and front suspension arms starting to wear.

These vehicles are expensive to maintain,thats just the price you pay,unfortunately.

My work van was in at the dealer for a service the other week,$183.....not bad?
Just a small service,it was.The biggest service is around $450.

But it doesn't go or ride like a D4,far from it.[bigsad]

[DI5CO]

Hi Scarry
Yeah I know they are expensive (owned Discos for 17yrs lol) and was probably thinking $800-1000 bill. Others have been up and down this range. I just felt I could not trust this guy. And thought 1400 just too much.

[l00kin4]

My 2 year service at ~43,000km was pretty comparable except rear discs were replaced. Breakdown as follows:

$1,030
$403 labour, $627 parts
24 month service
Oil, fuel, air and pollen filters;
Oil, plug etc.

$166
Wheel alignment

$887
Labour $355
Replace rear discs and pads
Rear brake pads and sensor $185
Rear discs $347

The pollen filter just seems to be replaced as a matter of course. Not convinced it's necessary but since I've not bothered to take a look at it, can't be sure.

Dealer vs indi servicing much discussed elsewhere but certainly once mine's out of (extended) warranty, the dealer probably won't see much of it.

David

[LRD414]

Pollen filter is on the schedule for replacement every service. Whether it’s required or not is a fair question but irrelevant, if they follow the schedule then it’s done. Global Closing is a CCF change and therefore not something the dealer can do with their diagnostic equipment.

Scott

[scarry]

Pollen filter is on the schedule for replacement every service. Whether it’s required or not is a fair question but irrelevant, if they follow the schedule then it’s done. Global Closing is a CCF change and therefore not something the dealer can do with their diagnostic equipment.

Scott

If its corporate plan,sure,or fixed price servicing,then it gets done.

But if not,you can ask for it not to be done.

i have checked ours in both vehicles and never seen it dirty.

If it is, a quick brush will fix it.

Bottom line is it is changed many times for no reason.

Oh,as for indies,my last two Discos,bought new,didn't go back to the dealer for any services,only warranty work.

[LRD414]

If its corporate plan,sure,or fixed price servicing,then it gets done.
But if not,you can ask for it not to be done.
Well it's always the customer's choice but the "logbook" service includes this item.

If a customer asks for a logbook service the pollen filter gets changed regardless of how it is paid for or how necessary it may be. So it's not the dealer's fault or gouging if something that you may consider unnecessary gets changed if all you ask for is the logbook service. An independent should be changing the pollen filter if a customer asks for a logbook service.

Obviously that's a separate discussion from what a dealer charges versus an independent, which I think has been done to death.

One area where a customer should be wary is with brake pads and rotors. I have always asked for pad and rotor thickness to be written on the service sheet before either is changed and have never had any issue with pads or rotors being done too early as a result.

Scott

[scarry]

Well it's always the customer's choice but the "logbook" service includes this item.

If a customer asks for a logbook service the pollen filter gets changed regardless of how it is paid for or how necessary it may be. So it's not the dealer's fault or gouging if something that you may consider unnecessary gets changed if all you ask for is the logbook service. An independent should be changing the pollen filter if a customer asks for a logbook service.

Scott

If you ask for a 'logbook' service,and then don't bother to look at what is getting done,then its bad luck,they just do everything,thats pretty obvious.

I ALWAYS look through what they are going to do,before it is done.

As i have said,if it is corporate plan,fixed price,you are not going to save anything telling them not to do something,as it will already be in the cost and difficult to take out.

Toyota are the same,our work vans(once the fixed price servicing has run out) have a note that comes up on their computer, for each van, at each 'logbook' service,the pollen filter is not to be changed,and nor is the fuel filter on certain vehicles,the ones that run LPG.The tank has to be removed to replace the filter and is an expensive exercise.

Easy as,no issues at all.

[Milton477]

I've just paid $259 for the parts from an indy to service my D4. These included:

Oil Filter $30.00
6l Synpower oil $96
Diesel Filter $98
Air Filter $35


All parts are genuine except the MAHLE air filter. Didn't bother with the pollen filter. Still running factory brakes at 53k Km even after half of that towing.

[Arapiles]

Just had my 2 Year (34K) Service on my D4 at a Sydney Land Rover dealer. Replaced Oil & Filter, Air and Fuel Filter - $1,047 please. Ripped off or what!!!

Well, it could be worse - I got quoted $1800 for an XC90's first service ....

[Tombie]

**** some of you are hard on your vehicles!!!

Changed pads to Akebono at 20,000.
Same brakes and pads are still running at 125k...

Lots of offroad and towing..

[Tombie]

I've just paid $259 for the parts from an indy to service my D4. These included:

Oil Filter $30.00
6l Synpower oil $96
Diesel Filter $98
Air Filter $35


All parts are genuine except the MAHLE air filter. Didn't bother with the pollen filter. Still running factory brakes at 53k Km even after half of that towing.

I just paid that for the gear for me to service BOTH our Landies [emoji41]

[DI5CO]

**** some of you are hard on your vehicles!!!

Changed pads to Akebono at 20,000.
Same brakes and pads are still running at 125k...

Lots of offroad and towing..

Yeah with only 28k and 2mm left on my rear pads I’m not sure how as I don’t do a lot of off road and have done a bit of towing but not a lot and nothing with a lot of weight. I generally release the park brake with the lever and not drive off.
Going in next week to get the bottom windscreen trim replaced under warranty and will ask why but I’m sure I’ll get the std response! Lol

[l00kin4]

**** some of you are hard on your vehicles!!!

Changed pads to Akebono at 20,000.
Same brakes and pads are still running at 125k...

Lots of offroad and towing..

Point taken and no doubt true to some extent Tombie but depends on the type of driving too. Most of my km's are VERY stop start city kms

David

[scarry]

**** some of you are hard on your vehicles!!!

Changed pads to Akebono at 20,000.
Same brakes and pads are still running at 125k...

Lots of offroad and towing..

Akebono,much longer lasting than OEM.

I know someone who put her new RRS in at the stealers for its first service at 26000K,and it needed new rotors and pads[bigsad]

Never been in the vehicle,but without a doubt, she must drive as if she is on a racetrack all the time.

[kenl]

I don't think I've ever had a service on any car at a dealership when they Haven't told me I'm due for new disks and pads!

I think It's printed on the service pad, Money for Jam you say?

[Tombie]

Consider this thinking...
Service intervals are stated as 24k
Seems those who brake like rally drivers in 3t vehicles are replacing below 50k many below 30k.

Based on that average, they would be calculating them needing replacement before the next 24k interval is up.