Low IQ + Alcohol =

[Chucaro]

Brawl erupts in central Sydney on second night of violence on city streets (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-19/brawls-erupt-on-streets-of-central-sydney/5207120)

Just wonder what it is the other factor that cause people with high levels of alcohol in the blood to behave in this uncivilized manner.
I suspect that education and low intelligence levels will be in the cards but have to be something more.
Are they from a low social or economic class or it not have much to do whit it?
What ever it is something have to be done and jail terms is an expensive measure and some time the results are not what we want.
Perhaps hard labour will help them to feel the pain and burn the energy and at the same time do something for society?
I guess that the first thing that we need is political will and "convince" the do-gooders that protect the rigts of these losers.

[Cobber]

I've often wondered what the other factor is too. It's easy to point the finger at booze but while it doesn't help it's not the sole reason why people end up behaving like this as the are only a tiny percentage of the people out there on the night having a drink. I suspect the biggest failing in these clowns is self control.

[carlschmid2002]

I believe that one of the biggest reasons is that people are no longer embarrassed about their actions when they sober up. I grew up in a generation where if you acted like a goose with a skin full you copped the bagging and humiliation afterwards. I have mates who I refused to drink with if they didn't drink mid strength. They just turn into idiots on heavy alcohol.
We have a massive problem in Townsville at the moment with break and enters and car theft. They break in, steal the keys, and take the car. They can get violent when confronted.They face court time and time again and walk. What rights do we have as law abiding citizens. Do you want your pride and joy returned with cigarette burns in the seats. My wife's friends had a 9 month old in the house whilst they were broken into. I have a German Shepherd and zip ties ready. I would be the one who goes to jail though. Are they ever made to pay for the damage they cause? Do they have to front the victims who are traumatised by their actions? They think it is a game. They get let off and their mates think they are cool. If I catch them in my house it is game on. I have a 2 month old and a 15 month old. Did I mention the German Shepherd?

[newhue]

National Service perhaps, and a "hex" type bill for damage or medical costs incurred for the victims recovery to be paid after they learn a bit of respect.
If their parents can't prepare them for society and respect themselves and others, perhaps there is another way.

I'd also be using all the cheap labour in our jails to be building a national standardised rail system to remove most of the semi trailers of major roads. Road repairs, road toll, who's serious.
Maybe even that great inland water pipe that has been bandied around for decades.

[CraigE]

You will find in most cases it is not just alcohol but other drugs taken as well. The problem is in most cases the police cannot test for drugs without cause or the person being in charge of a motor vehicle.

[jx2mad]

I believe it starts with the parents when kids are little. Kids learn by watching and copying. It should be do ad I do and not do as I say. Parents shoiuld be roll models for their kids. Sure there are those kids who choose to stray, and sometimes it is the company they keep. One can only hope that their kids have learned some sense growing up.

[frantic]

The old saying "work hard , play hard" is bitting itself on the bum. You work people harder, with more pressure, then they let that pressure off outside work. You only need to look at the increasing rate of assaults by athletes on the plonk and compare it to a few generation's ago. Then you need to compare the training regime(injury frequency, time at top, fitness level) of those same athletes to see the reality.
As to the break and enters/ car theft, that's soft judges and under age crime = get no time. It's also one of the reasons with 5 kids 13-2 I've got 2 sharpish decorative movie props from highlander and Conan ;) . Also along with an identical theft happening to my father whilst he an, sister and her husband where asleep they took his car and he lives 2 streets away , about 250m. The 2, 16 year olds got a warning and the 17 yr. old got a suspended sentence. As well as break and enter, flogging the car, they drove out past Dubbo from Dapto, stealing petrol along the way and then drove back, only getting caught after ramming a cop car at Goulburn!
P.S Chucaroo they did a study and the Avg. I,.Q inside prison is 70 compared to 98 population overall.

[BMKal]

In a hell of a lot of these cases of violence, I believe that the "violence" is actually more a result of drugs like speed / ice / meth than the alcohol. I've seen the results of people on this stuff - the doctors and nurses in our emergency departments see it virtually every night.

As for a solution - unfortunately we are unlikely to see one with the current crop of pathetic magistrates and judges that we have in our court systems. Perhaps if some of these members of the "judiciary" or their immediate families personally experienced the results of their lame and pathetic sentencing - they might start to change their views.

I would really hate to be a copper these days - rounding up the same scum time after time, only to see our **** weak courts let them straight back out into society to do it all over again.

I like carlschmid2002's solution. Unfortunately, we don't have our German Shepherd any more. But if I ever caught one of these scum in my place - the police and courts wouldn't be involved. ;)

[Ausfree]

The availibility of alcohol definitely needs to be curbed. i.e. earlier closing times. Drinking age needs to be increased to 21 and courts need to toughen up on sentences.:mad:

I believe the problems nowadays boils down to grog, drugs, lack of discipline and respect. I heard this morning that a 16 year old girl was arrested in Sydney for an early morning assault....................... Where are the parents????? This is what I mean by no discipline (from the parents) and respect (by the girl).

Here in Newcastle they have introduced the "Newcastle Solution" and it appears to be working. Assaults are down. Before these measures came into affect, people use to load up at home on cheap grog and head out to town at 11pm at night. Now they have less time to pre-load before heading out as they know the booze barns will start locking out at 1am and be closed at 3am.

If you can't have a good night on the town and be home by 3am, something is wrong.

NSW Premier Barry O'Farrell appears to be sitting on his hands which hints that he may be under the influence of the powerful hotel lobby. In the good 'ol US of A the National Rifle Association appears to flex a lot of muscle and look at the carnage that is being wrought there with guns.

If you have a powerful body exercising undue influence on the affairs of state, something has to go out of whack to the detriment of the voters.:( O'Farrell is certainly shaping up as a weak "do nothing" Premier. Oh, well the voters will get a chance next election. Problem is, powerful lobby groups have influence on all sides of politics.

[jx2mad]

It seems to me that if you have to have alcohol to have a good time....you have a problem

[Ausfree]

It seems to me that if you have to have alcohol to have a good time....you have a problem
And the problem has magnified into the carnage you are seeing now. Too many people appear to have a problem. Alcohol is promoted by sporting groups which link it to small minds to things like winning and having a good time.

By the way, I'm not a wowser, I like a beer...........in moderation.:D

[Ean Austral]

I struggle with people blaming the parents, last I checked you had to be 18 to purchase and consume alcohol, also the age that you are legally allowed to vote, so I guess classed as an adult, to blame the parents that 18 or 19 yr olds are causing trouble is unfair assumption in my eyes.


It seems to be a mindset that going out and fighting is classed as a fun night, couple that with the drugs that are readily available and its a bad concoction.


The basic non sentencing of these clowns is also high on the list, when everyday people need to lobby to get the 1 punch laws changed it tells you the legal system needs an overhaul.


Why do night clubs need to remain open till 3 or 4 in the morning. Should be a midnight closing time. In my parents days the pubs closed around 10 pm and that was it, home time, now its clubs, casinos , you name it.


We live in an age of alcohol advertising, where you are encouraged to consume alcohol in everything you do.


I don't believe that IQ plays such a major part, as clubs seem to be full of all sorts of people that are hell bent on consuming as much as possible.


From my expierence in the clubs I have been in the RSA doesn't exist until you fall over or cant talk.


Cheers Ean

[schuy1]

back to 10pm closing for all outlets, make the penalties reflect the action, If underage the parents pay fines and damages. Simple, worked years ago. If we wanted to drink after the pub shut we bought enough to do.
Cheers Scott

[sheerluck]

I've often wondered what the other factor is too. It's easy to point the finger at booze but while it doesn't help it's not the sole reason why people end up behaving like this as the are only a tiny percentage of the people out there on the night having a drink. I suspect the biggest failing in these clowns is self control.

It seems that the vast majority of the problem is in the cities, where people are heading to the big, impersonal bars and clubs where they don't know you and don't really care about anything except getting as much money out of you as possible. How often do you hear about all-in brawls at the tiny local pub? Not often I would guess.

When I was 18-21 or thereabouts, me and my mates would head up into the hills fell walking most weekends and head to the pub (a tiny quaint, typical British country pub) in the evening. There was never even the faintest sign of aggression in there, in fact it was all you could do to stay awake, sitting in a rocking chair next to a blazing log fire with a scotch or similar in hand. :D

The landlord looked after the young'uns, acting almost like a surrogate dad. The slightest amount of mischief and it would be a gentle "I reckon you'd better get young XXX home."

Don't think you'd find anywhere like that in King's Cross. :p

[Ausfree]

[QUOTE=Ean Austral;2069077]I struggle with people blaming the parents, last I checked you had to be 18 to purchase and consume alcohol, also the age that you are legally allowed to vote, so I guess classed as an adult, to blame the parents that 18 or 19 yr olds are causing trouble is unfair assumption in my eyes.

G'Day Earn.:D

You are absolutely correct that 18 year olds can vote etc. But if I was the parent of a 16 year old girl, who is still a minor, I would insist on knowing what she was doing at 3am in the morning in town. I would be particularly annoyed with her when the police informs me she has been charged with assault.

Yes, accountabilty for ones own actions appears to be a fiction nowadays and if you are 18 you have to realise your rights (to buy alcohol, vote, have a driving licence etc) must be balanced by social responsibility.

Unfortunately, not too many people (young and old) realise that nowadays. I also realise that teenagers from decent family's can go off the rails, particularly if they fall in with the wrong crowd. I know this only too well........I have been through it.:(

Cheers.:D:D

[vnx205]

I struggle with people blaming the parents,

Cheers Ean

It was possibly more valid in the past to blame parents. There was a time when parents were the major influence and sometimes almost the only influence on a child.

For a whole lot of reasons, that is no longer the case. There are many other things now, such as TV, the internet and social media, that can have an enormous impact on a child's values and attitudes.

I have seen some wonderful, well meaning parents whose children have been a great disappointment to them and a menace to society. I have also seen, though less often, some exemplary children whose home life you would not wish on anyone.

Parents are very important as role models, but I suspect their impact has been reduced compared with a generation ago.

[Ean Austral]

[QUOTE=Ean Austral;2069077]I struggle with people blaming the parents, last I checked you had to be 18 to purchase and consume alcohol, also the age that you are legally allowed to vote, so I guess classed as an adult, to blame the parents that 18 or 19 yr olds are causing trouble is unfair assumption in my eyes.

G'Day Earn.:D

You are absolutely correct that 18 year olds can vote etc. But if I was the parent of a 16 year old girl, who is still a minor, I would insist on knowing what she was doing at 3am in the morning in town. I would be particularly annoyed with her when the police informs me she has been charged with assault.

Yes, accountabilty for ones own actions appears to be a fiction nowadays and if you are 18 you have to realise your rights (to buy alcohol, vote, have a driving licence etc) must be balanced by social responsibility.

Unfortunately, not too many people (young and old) realise that nowadays. I also realise that teenagers from decent family's can go off the rails, particularly if they fall in with the wrong crowd. I know this only too well........I have been through it.:(

Cheers.:D:D


Sorry , I didn't see the comment about 16 yr old girl and totally agree, but then I had left home by the age of 16 so my parents had no idea where I was.


We have been extremely lucky with both our girls, but mum was pretty vigilant whilst I was at sea, and did a fantastic job raising them.


I come from a very broken family so fully understand how it happens and seen it happen to 2 of my sisters.


cheers Ean

[Chucaro]

Some times we blame the magistrates and judges but are they not tied to the law and its limitations?
If the magistrates and judges impose a to severe penalty without precedents can not the defense appeal it?
It is not the case that the law makers (governments) have to change the laws so the courts can be more severe without excuses for appeals?

Regarding parents it is not the case that from some time children are so protected that parents are limited to how strict they can be?

I asking the questions because I do not know and like to find if our opinions are well based or just what we would like to see without understanding the problem that judges and parents face.

I am a grandparent so I do not know the issues that young parents face now in regards to the laws.

[BMKal]

Some times we blame the magistrates and judges but are they not tied to the law and its limitations?
If the magistrates and judges impose a to severe penalty without precedents can not the defense appeal it?
It is not the case that the law makers (governments) have to change the laws so the courts can be more severe without excuses for appeals?


Can't have it both ways. When governments try to bring in new laws / harsher penalties, people complain that the governments are taking away the powers of the courts. Remember the outcry about the "three strikes" laws in the past - not to mention recent new laws in Queensland.

In general, there is plenty of scope for the courts to impose harsher penalties - they just don't - mainly because the judiciary is over-run with do-gooders who are out of touch with reality.

Yes - if a harsher (or any) penalty is imposed, the guilty party has the right to appeal the sentence. But this sentence is just heard by more judges, who then make a decision. If ALL of the judiciary woke up to themselves and started handing out sentences that reflected the crimes committed, and particularly reflected community attitudes to those crimes - then there would be little point in appealing the severity of a sentence, as the appeal court would in general support the sentence initially passed.

As far as I'm concerned - the power to hand down sentences should be removed from judges and magistrates. They have clearly demonstrated over many years now that they cannot be trusted to impose even minimum sentences in many cases, and certainly sentences which meet community expectations. Magistrates / judges should only preside over that part of the court process which decides guilt or innocence - that is all that they are qualified to do and they have demonstrated that this is all that they are competent to do.

Sentencing should be conducted by another person / body, elected by the people. If they do not pass sentences that reflect community standards and expectations, they are voted out of the role at the next election. Either that, or make Judges positions an elected role with a defined term of office. If they don't pass sentences that meet expectations, they become unemployed at the end of their defined term of office. Works in other countries. ;)

The current system where judges etc are accountable to nobody (except a panel of their peers) is clearly not working.

[bob10]

Sentencing should be conducted by another person / body, elected by the people. If they do not pass sentences that reflect community standards and expectations, they are voted out of the role at the next election. Either that, or make Judges positions an elected role with a defined term of office. If they don't pass sentences that meet expectations, they become unemployed at the end of their defined term of office. Works in other countries. ;)

The current system where judges etc are accountable to nobody (except a panel of their peers) is clearly not working.


What system would you have, that of the Taliban? Bob


http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/publications.nsf/0/61b8a818dbcd9defca256ecf000ac6f8/$FILE/bp01-98.pdf

[C00P]

P.S Chucaroo they did a study and the Avg. I,.Q inside prison is 70 compared to 98 population overall.
Like to see a copy of that study. Sure, they are (on average) below the population average, but not that low.
Probably around 90-ish.

Coop

[C00P]

I've often wondered what the other factor is too. It's easy to point the finger at booze but while it doesn't help it's not the sole reason why people end up behaving like this as the are only a tiny percentage of the people out there on the night having a drink. I suspect the biggest failing in these clowns is self control.

Booze is a pretty big part of the problem, though. The "Newcastle study" demonstrated that...

Coop

[C00P]

As far as I'm concerned - the power to hand down sentences should be removed from judges and magistrates. They have clearly demonstrated over many years now that they cannot be trusted to impose even minimum sentences in many cases, and certainly sentences which meet community expectations.
Sentencing should be conducted by another person / body, elected by the people. If they do not pass sentences that reflect community standards and expectations, they are voted out of the role at the next election. Either that, or make Judges positions an elected role with a defined term of office. If they don't pass sentences that meet expectations, they become unemployed at the end of their defined term of office. Works in other countries. ;)

I believe that's been tried- if not for real, then in simulations. And surprisingly the "community panel" turned out to be more lenient than the courts.
And anyway, that's tackling the wrong end of the problem. Shutting off the booze supply earlier, and changing community perceptions (eg like converting "King hit" to "Coward punch") and adding in something like National Service (and not necessarily military) that actually teaches discipline is a better way to go. My Dad once said that what we need is a "good war". I couldn't think of anything worse, but I know what he was getting at.

Coop

[BMKal]

Agree with you Coop that a whole range of "solutions" are needed. Shutting the venues down at a reasonable hour would be a good start, as would be some form of "national service".

Haven't heard of the "community panel" trial before. But I'm sure that some form of this idea for sentencing would work - especially if the "panel" was an elected body (I'd suggest maybe experienced judges elected to the role) - and stood to lose the position (and their income) if voted out next time round if the community was not satisfied with their performance in the role.

I sure don't claim to know the answers - but I do know that the system we have now isn't working. There's a "loud minority" of bleeding hearts controlling things at the moment - it's only a matter of time before the "silent majority" has their say.

[newhue]

for me, point the finger at who you want, it's parents who ultimately have to blame. A baby is born with a clean slate, it is the actions of parents over time, and how they deal with the outside world imprinting on their kids. Innate behaviour plays a part, but I think learned behaviour is predominant.

Kids adore there parents, even ones who are bashed or treated unkindly. We are the role models centrally for the first 15 or 16, and hopefully the next 30+ years. But every generation before has blamed the current youngins for social unrule. Failing to accept it's the wash up of their own behaviour generally.

Growing affluence, a desire to see one's child not go without, and work commitments to pay for our privileged lives leaves little time to physically hand on right, wrong, decency, respect, and resilience. Then watching US style tv, games, and music often seems to be centred around, guns, violence, sex, and gang drugs. Not many of us will turn down a drink on a social occasion while the kids watch on in a casual way. Often we should look at ourselves before we blame others. It just not easy to do so with honest intent.

[beagleONE]

ill weigh in here.
i think there is honestly no incentive to not commit a crime in australia.

generally there is a slap on the wrist, dont do it again sonny for serious assaults at the moment. but its clearly not working, look at how many people minding their own business, getting clipped by a cheap shot and either dying or acquiring a serious brain injury as a result (daniel christie is the most recent victim of this).
look at the individual who killed jill meaghar, he had a long list of priors for sexual assaults etc.

seriously how can someone who chooses to hit another person, who then dies, not be tried for murder. how can someone who has been found guilty of multiple rapes be allowed to walk the streets... our judicial system is a joke!!

there must be harsher, and more consistent punishment for committing serious crimes which should extend to all members of society.
longer sentences, non parole periods, no snake lawyers getting people off due to their ability to manipulate the laws. this should act as an incentive to not commit crimes.


punishment is not the only answer. as a society we must also look at what is leading people to get to a stage in their life where it is acceptable for them to act in this manner, and try and interview prior.

there is no simple answer, but things must change.

[Ausfree]

Barry O'Farrell has come up with a way to reduce assaults and "Coward Punches", DO VERY LITTLE.:mad: All he has done is slightly increase prison times with a mandatory minimum sentence. As if that is going deter the moron hell bent on causing trouble. I guess at least they can now test the person who commits an assault for drugs.

Didn't restrict trading hours, that might upset the hotel lobby!!!:mad:

[Fatso]

Instead of Pollies going over to Europe to check on gardens and librarys may be a fact finding mission to Singapore to study crime prevention and penalties might be a good start . :nazilock::nazilock::nazilock::nazilock::nazilock: :nazilock::nazilock:

[Chucaro]

Can we go back in history just in this case?
I guess that there it is not a political will :(

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/544.jpg

[Ausfree]

Instead of Pollies going over to Europe to check on gardens and librarys may be a fact finding mission to Singapore to study crime prevention and penalties might be a good start . :nazilock::nazilock::nazilock::nazilock::nazilock: :nazilock::nazilock:

Don't forget the Winter Olympics in Russia, while we are in Europe might as well slip over for a look-see. Aussie athletes in it you know, we have to do our bit and barrack for them.:p

[rb30gtr]

Sad to see. I am 30 now, and have almost completely stopped partying in the city that I have loved for many years, but now even being 6ft 2 and a big build I fear for what can happen in the streets. I used to frequent the cross every weekend, for almost 10 years, and never saw so much as a bloody nose, or bouncers wailing on some drunk bloke.

In my opinion, 2 things to get rid of in this country that will start to help
MMA or UFC
Soccer

And lastly, it is Ice, Ice and more Ice. Call it whatever you want, but that is the biggest problem these days. Mix it up with a generous dose of alcohol and hey presto. And even worse, get it into a concoction with one of the average roid user and you have a monster on your hands, a monster that wants to be the next UFC/MMA legend.

When I was that age it was all Ecstasy, and all that happened in any of the clubs was everyone loved everyone else and drank way too much water. It was a good time for people to party.

It's not about the penalty that can be given to someone that causes a crime, we should be talking about prevention.

Any young blokes pumping weights injecting roids and watching this UFC should be rounded up and sent to war, maybe that will ease their frustration and help them appreciate what other generations had to go through.

[carlschmid2002]

A group of teenagers here in Townsville last night stole a troopy and crashed into a tree and rolled. End result one 18 year old dead, one 14 year old fighting for there life and two more injured. The car was stolen. For a town of about 100000 there have been 30 car thefts this week. 26 arrests. I refuse to believe that there are that many thieves. Our courts keep letting them out. Did I mention that the Mayor's car got stolen in December as well. They will probably blame the owner because he left his windows down too far or the keys were too accessible.

[Ausfree]

Adding to my previous post, where I said Premier O'Farrell has not introduced lockouts. I had heard that in an early report, but watching TV this morning Barry O'Farrell was interviewed and lockouts HAVE been introduced.:)

Certain areas in Sydney now have 1.30am lockouts and 3am closing. I guess all the measures introduced are a small step toward preventing assaults. but as has been mentioned many times previously in this Thread, other things such as drugs and steroids also contribute to this situation. How you are going to combat that is a real problem.:confused:

[rb30gtr]

It will be interesting to see how it pans out. Shame that all of the sane minded party goers are now disadvantaged because of the minority of morons. I guess it is just like everything else in this world we live in.

[bob10]

ill weigh in here.
i think there is honestly no incentive to not commit a crime in australia.

.


Unfortunately, the evidence supports that , over & over. Chief Magistrate Tim Carmody says in the Courier Mail Tue. Jan.21 ;


He would have given an alleged Bandidos ' prospect' more time behind bars ' if he could', for his part in the infamous Broadbeach bikie brawl. He went on to say " However, because of the sentences that have already been imposed on others involved in this riot... if I impose a sentence that I think the defendant deserves he is likely to be left with a sense of grievance" [my italics] Bob [So much for getting tough. the article is accompanied by the defendant giving the middle finger salute.]

[vnx205]

It will be interesting to see how it pans out. Shame that all of the sane minded party goers are now disadvantaged because of the minority of morons. I guess it is just like everything else in this world we live in.

How are sane minded party goers disadvantaged by those measures?

[DiscoMick]

I thought O'Farrell's package sounded pretty sensible, at first glance.

I know a magistrate. He sends people to jail when necessary, but he's also very keen to try to find a better alternative, when it is possible. It's obviously better to have someone change their behaviour than go to prison and likely have their bad behaviour confirmed by what happens to them inside.
Trouble is, some people just grow up bad. There's no other way to say it. The real question is how to jerk the others, who are just being stupid, into growing up. It's not easy.

[Tote]

I grew up going to b&s balls where fairly serious amounts of grog were consumed yet the most serious assault I saw was someone who was being obnoxious getting gaffer taped from head to toe
So what's changed since the late 80's - early 90s
Drug choice has changed from dope, eccies and heroin to ice / speed
A culture of not going out till 11:00 has evolved due to extended trading hours

Maybe the trading hours reductions will help....
Regards,
Tote

Sent from my Nexus 7 using AULRO mobile app

[Bigbjorn]

I reckon if you haven't got enough grog into you by midnight then you haven't been trying. Last drinks at 11.30 and doors shut, lights out at midnight.

My growing up and rip roaring years the pubs shut at 10.00pm and didn't open on Sunday. We still managed to get falling down drunk. We didn't go to the few night clubs because we weren't paid enough. Maybe go to one for a special occasion every blue moon. I can't recall much fighting going on.

[Paulie]

perhaps the difference is between going out to have a good time, and gee I've ended up a little/lot drunk, vs, going out to get drunk??

Currently in the UK/Europe, where it seems there is much more drinking yet the streets feel much safer...

me thinks it might be the culture, not the booze.

[Ausfree]

perhaps the difference is between going out to have a good time, and gee I've ended up a little/lot drunk, vs, going out to get drunk??

Currently in the UK/Europe, where it seems there is much more drinking yet the streets feel much safer...

me thinks it might be the culture, not the booze.

Agree absolutely. Add booze plus steroids/drugs and you have a recipe for disaster.

[Chucaro]

Police pelted with glass bottles during mass brawl in Melbourne (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-25/glass-bottles-thrown-at-police-during-mass-brawl-in-melbourne/5218650)

Missed an opportunity to use that 80 youths to clean parks and remove weeds :(

I hope that arrests coming soon and that a Magistrate have the right ideas about what to do with them.

[C00P]

People who are ****ed and spoiling for a fight aren't thinking about the length of sentence they might get if they hurt someone. So the effect of long sentences will be to temporarily take someone off the street which might give the community a brief respite. Eventually they'll return to the street with the same attitudes and habits (or probably even worse ones) that they had when they went in.
If you are going to put people into jail then you have to do something with them while they are there to instill better attitudes and habits. Otherwise it's just a waste of taxpayer's money- and the jails in most of our states are already full- and chewing up a lot of our dollars that we could better spend elsewhere.
It's a lot less expensive to tackle this particular problem at the other end- by shutting off the supply of alcohol a bit earlier and getting people out of the pubs and clubs. The price we pay for that is a reduction in profitability of the pubs and clubs (they'll adjust) and a few people will whinge because they can't drink in a pub or club all night (boo hoo). The taxpayer savings will come from reduced hospital, police, court, and jail costs. Do the sums, the costs every time someone gets badly assaulted and injured, and where the police make an arrest are huge. (And that's not including the cost to the individuals involved- whether victim or perpetrator).
As for blaming the parents- well, there's an enormous industry out there telling us all its OK to drink on any occasion; that if you don't own a <insert favourite consumer items here> you're a loser, so you better work some extra hours to get one- don't bother spending that time with the kids they can look after themselves; and meanwhile the kids are being told that if they don't look like <insert favourite female pin-up or male body builder here> then they are losers... so the boys go to the gym and find that work-outs take time so some go for the quick jab approach, forgetting that steroids (among other side effects, such as sterility) can make you nasty and violent, especially if you are coming down off ice and you have a skinful of booze. (Meanwhile the girls are getting botoxed so they all look the same, and some are having boob jobs and being told that they have to give the guys head or they'll get dropped....)
Is it any wonder things are getting a bit screwed up? Pity the poor parents, some of whom know little better themselves anyway, trying to compete with that barrage of information.....
Sorry, rants getting a bit longer in my old age...

Coop