Working on the Tinnie

[Chops]

Its been about 4 years since my little boat has hit the water :eek:, and I'm in need of some water adventure ;) So time to get the girl organised.

So the other week, I spent a day cleaning her. Using a preasure washer, blowing out the leaves, dirt and moss :eek:, and the old matting stuff I stuck on top so I did'nt slip, it was a massive job :(, but now its all good. I've emptied out the old fuel, which did'nt look too healthy I might add.

So, after some discussions with a few mates and dealers, it had been sugested I replace the water pump before even attempting to start her.

I dont have any manuals or anything, so in preperation I've checked out a few Tube vids on how the pump is replaced,, looks pretty basic ;)
Today after work, I called into the boat shop on Springvale Rd,, (daydreamed whilst looking at some really nice new boats :eek:,, wish I was wealthy :(), then went and purchased a new water pump.
Genuine Yamaha one to suit the 25H,,, $55. :D I know you can buy them much cheaper through ebay etc, but they're not genuine, and the previous owner of the boat said he had problems when he went down the "cheap path". So I'm best not to temp fate ;)
Cant believe how small it is though. Not quite too sure how this poor little thing is going to do the job,, but ah well, we'll see what happens. If all goes to plan, will do the fix this weekend :D
I'll see if I can remember to take some pics as I go too :D

Any of you guys change over your own pumps often, or do you just send it to the shop to be done?

[Pilbara130]

Good to hear your getting back on the water. I don't think it will be a big job to change out the water pump on a little outboard as you said youtube is your friend. Also check your fuel lines make sure they haven't become brittle. Look forward to your trip reports.
Dan

[LandyAndy]

Goodluck with that.
Australia day came a weekend early,will be working on getting mine fixed.Would have been out on the water if I had time to sort it.
Andrew

[newhue]

in the past I have used the shop, I believe a water pump every 12 months is a good thing, regardless of use, if you wish to go out. So a good exercise there, something I will need to do in the future.
Perhaps some new plugs also.

That feeling of hitting the water is so grand, glad the inspiration has come round for you.

[LandyAndy]

Jason.
When you say a waterpump per year,do you mean the impler???
Andrew

[Chops]

Thanks Jason,, yeah, the "bug" if you like, has kind of hit me again. It's just work, moving and what seems to be general "life" stuff seems to get in the way a bit. On the river up at Albury, a lot of my time on the water was spent sleeping :D. I find it very relaxing in a boat.
So with a few of the right people around you, poking, podding etc, it seems it will happen again, and reasonably soon. Have just finished cleaning out the car, and am about to wash it,,, then will start on the pump :D

Andy, yep, they mostly seem to recommend replacing the impeller once a year. It can come as a kit which includes a new insert cartridge, plate, impeller. A couple of other things like o rings woodruff key etc should be there also. The kit is probably twice the price of just the impeller, but it ensures all mating surfaces to the impeller are in good condition and working well.

[LandyAndy]

Mine has had 2 impellers during my ownership.Havent quite cracked 50 hours myself.
Andrew

[Chops]

Been working on the boat today, but had to wait for the sun to go behind the house,, bit hot here today :D
The first pic is the new pump impeller and associated parts. Looking at it, my first thought was,, "how tiny is that?"
So, I start pulling the leg apart to get at the pump,, all good, too easy. Forgot to undo the gear lever at first, but once done, a very easy job.
So with the leg set up on my table, I start to dissasemble the unit. Looking at it, I'm starting to wonder just how this all goes together. I can see a "round" housing :confused: Oh well,, maybe all hidden underneath,,,,,
Undo the three screws holding the housing,, just knowing where this is all going :(
Ohh look at that,,, everything is round,,, not square :mad:

So ends this part of the lesson for this week boys,,,

On the other hand,, Andy, this is why we do this yearly, bianually if in salt water. Check out the sand in the impeller unit. On inspection too of the impeller, it is shagged well and truely. Quite brittle in sections (towards the tips mostly), and the guys were right, if I had started it without changing, it would have broken off and gone into areas its not supposed to be in.
Not sure if its a problem or not, but I'm seeing the cup section looks to be painted with something, which is disintergrating as well :confused:
Dont forget though, my boat hasnt been in the water for like 4 years now, so this time out of "lube" so to speak, wont have done the unit any good at all. I'm not sure if I was to keep it filled with water whether it would change things at all. Like keep it in a rubbish bin full of water. Good excuse to start it every so often too I spose.

So,, I'll finish cleaning it all up, chase down the correct pump,, and then finish fitting it all up :D

[Chops]

Pics arent too clear,, sorry about that.

[LandyAndy]

Thanks Marcus.
Will make sure I will continue getting one done every annual service.
Cheers
Andrew

[Mick_Marsh]

Hey Chops.
You should be doing a little less working on your tinnie and a little more relaxing around the campfire with your friends.

[alien]

Hey Chops.
You should be doing a little less working on your tinnie and a little more relaxing around the campfire with your friends.
There is no better way to gain friends than having a working boat.

[Mick_Marsh]

Ahhhh! I see.
So, Andy and Chops have no friends. They are busily getting some. Or, trying to.

[Chops]

Hey Chops.

You should be doing a little less working on your tinnie and a little more relaxing around the campfire with your friends.

Hummmm,, yes,I was really wanting to be there Mick. Hope you guys all had a great weekend up the bush. Hopefully Leeanne wont be working next time :D


There is no better way to gain friends than having a working boat.

hehe,, I dont need any more friends, but always more than happy to have those I have around me,, no matter what the excuse to do so :D

[Chops]

Ahhhh! I see.
So, Andy and Chops have no friends. They are busily getting some. Or, trying to.

No,,, you dont see,,,
You were up the bush, probably getting stuck into the plonk ;),,,,

And Andy and I have heaps of friends :D
And even if we dont,,, we have each other :D

[LandyAndy]

Once our boats are going we will be able to offer free rides on a boogie board dragged thru shark infested waters(they are getting scarce in WA!!).I even have some good berley to make the ride even more interesting.
Andrew

[Mick_Marsh]

No,,, you dont see,,,
You were up the bush, probably getting stuck into the plonk ;),,,,

And Andy and I have heaps of friends :D
And even if we dont,,, we have each other :D
Needed one word removed. Just in the interests of accuracy.

[Chops]

Once our boats are going we will be able to offer free rides on a boogie board dragged thru shark infested waters(they are getting scarce in WA!!).I even have some good berley to make the ride even more interesting.
Andrew

And I have one of those bannana thingies to tow behind mine too :D Although I suspect Mick, and others, will have to have been stuck into the plonk hard to get on the back of it ;)

[LandyAndy]

Gorrilla tape will secure even the biggest in the mob;););););)
Andrew

[Chops]

Well, on the way home I called into the boat shop and picked up the new pump. A bit of confusion as mines an old motor.
So I cleaned up all the surfaces properly, and fitted up the new unit. A bit tricky to get the impeller to feed in right to the pump housing, as in working out the right way. Glad I had the old one to help guide me in the right direction, (I think ;))
So all bolted in, and now bolted back up to the boat. I'm hoping the weekend will see me imerse it in water,,,, then I'll know if I did it right :eek:

You'll notice on the old impeller, its been sitting incorectly in the housing. One of the blades actually faces the wrong way. Not sure if it would run like this, or if it just happens when the motor stops sometimes, then goes right when started again. Either way, I'm guessing it would be an issue :eek:
Also suspect the old unit to be an after market job and not genuine. Theres a black coating of what looks to be paint on the inside of the cup :confused:

Anyway, get some new fuel, check the plugs etc, and I'll see how she goes :D

Almost there :D

[newhue]

well done chops, don't forget the pillow.

[alien]

Just plug the hose in at home and save a trip to the boat ramp for when you have the rods and bait handy.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/51.jpg (http://www.google.com.au/url'sa=i&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=7Z4xFdrdEd8WiM&tbnid=JBZtzIb7SnOEUM:&ved=0CAgQjRw4pQE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.seascrew.com%2Fbrowse.cfm%3F OUTBOARD---INBOARD-MOTOR-ACCESSORIES%26l%3D0000000832&ei=duPpUpWWMcejkQWL-YCoBw&psig=AFQjCNE8srMUd-gab9NR3B2C_WBMou8w_Q&ust=1391146230847113)

[LandyAndy]

I have a set of them for cleaning.
After chatting with my great mate Graz Im looking for some sort of tub to do my testing with.
With muffs you wont know if the impeller is stuffed as the water is pressure fed.
Andrew

[Chops]

Yeah, I've got a set of muffs, but have only used them when I've been camped somewhere I have access to fresh water,, van parks etc.
I normally just use a 60lt rubbish bin filled with water at home.

[roverrescue]

Chops I know you have it all apart now but a suggestion for perhaps next time or for others.
Annual look at water pump is usually a good idea.
One thing to include while you have the lower gear case off. Find the water draw tube, most will allow your average run of the mill garden hose to slide over. Slide the hose over the draw tube.
No take off the two bolts that hold the thermostat housing (make sure you have a new thermostat sealing rubber and new gasket they will need to be replaced)
Now tuen on the water (do not run engine) water will flood the cooling passages and poor out the thermo housing giving it a proper flush.

Now is the time to also change water jacket / head anodes if fitted.

Trick with installing the water pump is that the drive shaft generally always turns clockwise when looking down. So have the impeller pinned by the woodruff on the shaft with a new wash plate and new o-ring underneath. Slide the water pump down the shaft then with a touch of anti sieze on the impeller blades turn the shaft clockwise and slide the pump over the blades. They will slide into position.

Probably enough rambling

Steve

[Chops]

Thanks Steve,,
Bugger, I wish you'd said that a tad earlier :D

Next time I will do as you sugest. I've been trying to find a manual online, but havent had any luck so far :(
In all the times I've run it, I've had no problems with her other than a flooding issue, and it was my own fault for not paying attention to how I tried to start it. I have to hold the handle juuust right,, well,, sometimes when your keen to get going onto the next spot, you tend not to really concerntrate :angel:

We'll see how I go in the morning when I try and kick her over. :D

[Pilbara130]

Good advice Steve.

These are the head anodes that come our of my engine after a year.

72174
72175
72176

Dan

[Chops]

Hi guys,
Is it possible for one of you to take a pick of where these are on the motor please?

Most two strokes are very similar in design, so even if its not a Yamaha you take a pick of, I should still be able to check it out. Mines only a 25hp, and very old, but it's done next to nothing in salt water since it was fully rebuilt several years ago, so I'm not overly stressed, but would like to check anyway.

Thanks in advance if you can help with this guys.

[LandyAndy]

Marcus,do you have the original owners manual????
I looked here,the oldest online version is 1998,it may help.
Owners Manuals | Yamaha Outboards (http://www.yamahaoutboards.com/owner-resources/owners-manuals)
Andrew

[Chops]

Thanks Andy.
I've checked out most of them already, but they dont go early enough, Its believed the motor is about 1985-ish.
I think I've found an original workshop manual online thats for sale. I just need to contact Yam to find out if it is the right one, and its also posible I may be able to buy one from them anyway. Just have a tad more research to do

[roverrescue]

CHops,
on a 25 of that vintage I would be very surprised if it had anodes within the cooling jacket.
Most likely one of the reasons why they are so good at rusting out the exhaust manifold/baffles
To be honest chops on smaller 2 strokes for my use i will usually remove the thermostat altogether. They will run a little cooler but up here thats not an issue and the thermostat by its very nature limits good flushing.


Pilbara that is some good going build up you have in your cooling passages. I would be yanking the leg and power flushing the system from the draw tube with those anodes and the thermostat out to flush that stuff. Perhaps even consider some Salt-X or equivalent?

S

[Pilbara130]

CHops,
on a 25 of that vintage I would be very surprised if it had anodes within the cooling jacket.
Most likely one of the reasons why they are so good at rusting out the exhaust manifold/baffles
To be honest chops on smaller 2 strokes for my use i will usually remove the thermostat altogether. They will run a little cooler but up here thats not an issue and the thermostat by its very nature limits good flushing.


Pilbara that is some good going build up you have in your cooling passages. I would be yanking the leg and power flushing the system from the draw tube with those anodes and the thermostat out to flush that stuff. Perhaps even consider some Salt-X or equivalent?

S

Steve leg was dropped and was all done this week. To much use and a little bit of abuse. Will try a bit harder this year to maintain along the way.
Dan

[roverrescue]

The killer in my experience is week long camping trips.
Engine gets run usually in pretty average coastal waters with mud and sand thrown around
And then doesnt get flushed till end of the trip!

Yours looks like a grey powerhead, so Im guessing a yammie 4 stroke.
At least you can rest assured the pro operators run them for upwards of 2000 hours with minimal servicing and never really getting flushed so the anodes likely do the job of prptecting the bits that count. But regular servicing with liberal use of antisieze makes servicing quick easy and painless

S

[Chops]

Alright my learned friends,,

Have done everything I can think of in order to preparing her for starting, as in checked plugs, drained and re-primed fuel etc, bucket of water to sit the prop and water intake in,,, but now I have a problem with the tiller handle :eek:.
It seems to be jammed in the "Up" position.
I have pawed all over this, and can see/feel nothing. Theres no cogs to get jammed up, the throttle control is cable, and works fine, goes in/out of gear. Its just stuck up. :mad:
Frustrating, as I need it down in order to try and start her. (Its a "hanging on/leverage" thing)

Any ideas.

[Chops]

I forgot,,
It hasnt been getting tight or anything, it just seemed to go up, then wont come down. Its almost as if its been locked up by some kind of connecting lever or something. :confused::confused:

[Pilbara130]

Yeh that exactly what happens I'm home for a week at a time and my engine only gets flushed once when I put it away so that's a fair bit of running on the flats in not the best of water. In saying that I have over 700 hours on mine and it hasn't missed a beat 115 suzuki. Most of the guide boats hear also run the suzuki and have well over 4000 hour. The problem most people have is opposite to what they think is doing the righty by minimising there run time on the motor keeping there hours down. I would buy a motor with 1000 hours from a guide over a engine the same age with 200 hour that's been sitting in the shed.

[Pilbara130]

I forgot,,
It hasnt been getting tight or anything, it just seemed to go up, then wont come down. Its almost as if its been locked up by some kind of connecting lever or something. :confused::confused:

Can you take a picture of the tiller arm ?

[roverrescue]

Chops,
does the tiller pivot have a grease nipple
could it just be seized up crusted grease
straight petrol will dissolve old grease quicker than most other things, just dont use a lighter for illumination ;)

S

[Chops]

A couple of pics.
Theres no grease nipple that I spotted for this hinge. Prior to it locking up, it moved very freely with no signs of catching/scraping or anything, quite loose in fact.
Its a bit hot out at the moment,, she's sitting in the sun, so when it goes over the house I'll get some CRC or something and give it a spray.

[Chops]

Chops,
does the tiller pivot have a grease nipple
could it just be seized up crusted grease
straight petrol will dissolve old grease quicker than most other things, just dont use a lighter for illumination ;)

S

hehe,, funny you should say that,, I was out there having a fag whilst pumping the fresh fuel through the line earlier ;)

[roverrescue]

For mine that looks like it will be our olf friend a fine blend of Al, NaCl and time!
First try hot (as in boiling) soapy water poured over the mechanism, then penetrating oil of your choice and then once it is moving you need to get some nickel antisieze into the hinge pin/pivot

S

[Chops]

Thanks Steve, I cant believe its just gone in an instant like that. One of the bolts was pretty tight with it too. I'll report back when done,, (see you in a week or two :()

[Tombie]

Once our boats are going we will be able to offer free rides on a boogie board dragged thru shark infested waters(they are getting scarce in WA!!).I even have some good berley to make the ride even more interesting.
Andrew


Live bait trolling is the best!!!

[LandyAndy]

Marcus,when are you hitting the water to test your handi-work????
Spoke to my Bro last nite,we are hoping to have a fish in the 1st 2nd March:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
Andrew

[Chops]

G'day Andy,

I'm hoping I might be able to get out this weekend, but not looking good :(, so maybe the one after.

I got the tiller working tonight,,, in the rain :mad:. Very gummed up, so now its cleaned up and lubed, so should be good. Then had a crack at starting it. That took a bit, but got it to fire, then I think I managed to flood it, so I'll have another crack again tomorrow.

[LandyAndy]

May be worth dropping a squirt of oil in thru the spark plug hole and pulling it over without the plugs to lubricate the piston rings.
Going to crank mine up on the weekend,just need to find a decent size container rather than using muffs.
Andrew

[Chops]

If you have access through your work, you should be able to get hold of a plastic 200Lt drum, or even a steel one will do. Get one of the boys there to clean it up and cut the top off it at a height that allows you to get your motor in.
Other than that, maybe a trip to Bunnings or somewhere for a 60Lt plastic rubbish bin. You may find a bin a touch short, if so, grab some kind of box to place under it to get height.

[LandyAndy]

Im 160ks away from civilisation:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool: so no Bunnings here!!!!
Somewhere down the back I have a stainless laundry trough,hoping that its big enough.Next stop is the drum muster point at out tip.Should be able to get something there ;);););););)
Andrew

[Chops]

Had another go at getting her going last night :(

Started to run for all of about 15 seconds, then died,, then I suspect flooded.

Seem to have spark, but I'm thinking she might have to go to the shop for a carby tune or maybe to make sure the spark is right. The plugs look ok, they're not gummed up or anything, not sure what the gap should be though.

On a brighter note,, the pump looks to be working well :D

[Chops]

Yee haaaa

Success at last. :D:D

Fired up the girl this evening. Trying to be very careful not to flood it and keep it going. So, check this, set that, pull the cord,,,, nothing.
Thats cool, turn off the choke, set the throttle again, making sure its in just the right spot,, pull the cord,,,,,,,,,,,,, brummm brummmm and awayyyy we go :D
Just in case you cant tell,,, I'll be very happy at this point :D

It didnt really last all that long, maybe a minute or so, but happy to hear her run at long last. So, she stops and as I go to try and restart her, I notice a massive amount of fuel under the carby :eek:
I suspect there has been some kind of blockage, and its let go with eccess fuel going everywhere.
So after I've checked the line etc, pulled off the air filter cover to let it dry out a bit, I reset every thing and pull the cord again. Twice even,,, same as before. She seems to have this wierd ritual you have to go through to start her :confused:
But anyway, she fires straight up, no real effort as such, and stays running :D. So I just let her idle over for a few minutes, not looking to rev the guts out of her after sitting for so long.
So whilst I'm feeling good,, getting wet feet ;), I notice water coming out of several spots on the leg, which, I've never noticed before, so Now I'm nervous something might be wrong. :(
Have a look at the pics, and see what you think. It is quite possible its just doing what its supposed to be doing, and its just I've never noticed it before :confused:

Anyway,, as Mick says, I'm in a position to go out and make some new friends now,,, apparently ;)
hehe,, maybe I'll just go and see a couple of my existing mates up at the Murray, and Dartmouth :D

[Tombie]

You talking the water below the cav plate?
Normal

[LandyAndy]

Marcus.
If it keeps flooding and that fuel is below the carb I would suspect an issue with the float or its adjustment.Have you put a carby kit thru it??? Would be money well spent.In car carbies left for years you often see the copper float has collapsed.Unsure if marine carbies use the same floats or neoprene ones.
Andrew

[Chops]

Cheers guys,
Have not done a kit in it at all Andy, but as you say, well worth thinking about. One would think it should be ok, even though it hasnt run for so long. The engine was fully rebuilt about 12 months prior to my buying it. I let it cool right down and started her again,,, no problems, and I'm about to go out and do it again now.

I've marked where the water is coming out. Two sort of look normal, as you say, the one under the cavity plate, but theres also one about the same level, but at the rear of the leg.
Then theres water coming out at the front,, kind of looks like over flow at the top :confused:
Then, at the very front, down low, there seems to be another outlet, although I'm looking at it thinking its over flow directly from the pump :confused:

[LandyAndy]

The one at the rear looks like water spraying from a pinhole,is it a machined hole????
Just looked at my outboard(merc 75hp 2 stroke),it has plastic tubing joining in the same general spots.Worth googling images of yours to see what the same outboard looks like.
Andrew

[Chops]

Thanks Andy, I'll have a look tomorrow, but at this point I think thay all are machined/cast holes.
I have just never noticed them before,, :angel:
I'm still debating if I'll try and buy the manual I found on the net. If I had one I could work it all out a lot easier. Its just at $80, seems a bit much :(

[Chops]

Pretty happy at the moment with the motor.

All week, I've been going out and starting her at various times, and she has fired up and run with no dramas what so ever :D.
I've even had it in gear for a while, just at idle, and all seems to be ok at the moment.
So now the real test comes, take her out into the big blue,, or maybe a dirty little creek for a run for a couple of hours. I'm hoping to have a go at this either tomorrow (Sunday) or it may have to wait until next weekend.
Theoretically, I may be able to sneak down to Carrum boat ramp after work and give her a run. It'll be quieter through the week I would suspect, and easier to get a ramp. Might be a better option if something should go wrong too, as its a small creek/river which allows easy access back to the ramp :eek: