Cooper LTZ Zion issues?

[~Rich~]

Hi Guys,
I am on my second set of Cooper LTZ Zion tyres and have not had an issue with them either on standard 4wd club trips on Sydney sandstone and other rock types. Even a pounding in the Simpson from Dalhousie Springs to Mt Dare and 6 days complete cross country did not faze them.

Some have sidewall issues and some have had cracking in Perth & the US.
Here are some photo's of what the cracks look like:
Cooper Zeon LTZ issue. - F150online Forums (http://www.f150online.com/forums/wheels-tires-brakes/431063-cooper-zeon-ltz-issue.html)
I think they may have something to do with the extreme road temperatures that both Perth & some parts of the US get.

Here is an excerpt from Marque / The Range Rover club mag re staking and weak sidewalls, Cooper Tyres have responded to this letter as well:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/118.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/VSK5/media/img043_zps3757c3f8.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/119.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/VSK5/media/img044_zps9b1c6eaa.jpg.html)

pdf file available here:
https://app.box.com/s/zaobm3f1is27ahsg4wr0

[Dougal]

The LTZ 275/45R20's on a family members RRS haven't cracked into the casing, but are showing crazing through the tread-blocks. Worst on the fronts.

These are tyres ~1.5 years old. Not quite 50,000km and almost no offroad use.
I have almost identical cracks on some Michelin XPC here, but they are ~15 years old.

[Redback]

We had a similar experience with our Cooper Tyres also, mine were STs/ST-Cs and STTs, on our old D2, I personally don't think they are a very good tyre and they certainly don't like the rough stuff.

Baz.

[JohnF]

we recently threw the tread on a Cooper discovery tire 245/70/R!6, around 10,000 km left on it at a guess. Tyre stayed up, but it ripped out our fuel filler pipe--fixed, and it also broke a tail light. This tire had cracking in side wall near the rim but that is not where this tire failed--the tread pulled away. Not sure I would get Coopers again. Oh but the tire did not go flat so we got to where we could pull of the road which was Tar.

Certainly this is a different Cooper to yours.

[scarry]

The bottom line is, as said,why can LR not provide 18" wheels for these vehicles?

Or even better,design them for 17" as an option,but also capable of running 19" or 20' for those that want them.

There are many other vehicles around the same weight and power that run 17"s.

The tyre guys must love those easily damaged,high wearing low profile tyres.

[Dougal]

The bottom line is, as said,why can LR not provide 18" wheels for these vehicles?

Or even better,design them for 17" as an option,but also capable of running 19" or 20' for those that want them.

There are many other vehicles around the same weight and power that run 17"s.

The tyre guys must love those easily damaged,high wearing low profile tyres.

Tyres cracking isn't landrovers problem.

[phl]

The bottom line is, as said,why can LR not provide 18" wheels for these vehicles?

Or even better,design them for 17" as an option,but also capable of running 19" or 20' for those that want them.


Let's be honest with ourselves here; how many Discos actually go off-road? I'd hazard a guess, and say very few.

Each different tyre means inventory.

The trend now for on-road prestige vehicles is low profile tyres.

Ergo they stock what is commonly sold, and don't bother with what they don't sell in any volume.

[Dougal]

Let's be honest with ourselves here; how many Discos actually go off-road? I'd hazard a guess, and say very few.

Each different tyre means inventory.

The trend now for on-road prestige vehicles is low profile tyres.

Ergo they stock what is commonly sold, and don't bother with what they don't sell in any volume.

You're forgetting speed rating. Vehicles have to come out with rubber which meets or exceeds the vehicles top-speed.
Back in RRC days the rpm was limited on the EFI engines to keep the top-speed just within the rating of the tyres they had then.

The SDV6 is a modest 180km/h. The V8 D4 is 195km/h. Almost all the Sports can top 200km/h.

You can't honestly expect 300mm disc brakes and 16" wheels on a chassis that does that.

[discotwinturbo]

Let's be honest with ourselves here; how many Discos actually go off-road? I'd hazard a guess, and say very few. Each different tyre means inventory. The trend now for on-road prestige vehicles is low profile tyres. Ergo they stock what is commonly sold, and don't bother with what they don't sell in any volume.

I do...every possible opportunity. Rocks, sand, crappy dirt tracks....and even mud.
My Coopers don't get an easy life.
No issues with Coopers after 13 years.

Brett....

[scarry]

Tyres cracking isn't landrovers problem.

Who said it was?:confused:

[~Rich~]

That's exactly my experience with the 285/60 R18's LTZ's as well!

Seems funny that some can give their tyres a pounding and yet not have any issues. Perhaps there is more to the driving/ load and tyre pressures than we think.

[scarry]

Let's be honest with ourselves here; how many Discos actually go off-road? I'd hazard a guess, and say very few.

Each different tyre means inventory.

The trend now for on-road prestige vehicles is low profile tyres.

Ergo they stock what is commonly sold, and don't bother with what they don't sell in any volume.

So is the Disco an off road vehicle or not?

I am pretty sure it is sold as one,you only have to look at LR advertising.

maybe it is turning into an 'on road prestige vehicle'

LR was always known as a manufacturer of off road vehicles.

Looks like they have moved to a different market,particularly with the Defender being dropped shortly.

And some models of the RRS/RR having no TC.

This will probably also filter down to the Disco as well.

So lets be honest with ourselves,if you want a touring wagon that can also be used off road,well maybe you will have to purchase something else......

[gghaggis]

Why do you need something else? It's a _choice_ . If you want a transfer case you can have one.

Cheers,

Gordon

[scarry]

That's exactly my experience with the 285/60 R18's LTZ's as well!

Seems funny that some can give their tyres a pounding and yet not have any issues. Perhaps there is more to the driving/ load and tyre pressures than we think.


What pressures do you run them at,maybe helpful to others on here.

Those roads around MT Dare,and up through Finke are very bad,corrugations are unbelievable.

I was surprised my 17"s stood up to them,we were heavily loaded.

[JamesH]

I'm not looking to do anything hardcore in the way of off road touring but I just want to be able to take the car off road into the outback and handle harsh roads & tracks like the one from Dalhousie to Mt Dare or the GRR and up to Mitchell Plateau etc.

I know the car can do my kind of touring on its ear but it's getting like finding 19' tyres for the job is going to be a lot more difficult than it should be.

[jonesy63]

Comparing pressures in a 285/60R18 will probably not be any use for people with 19" wheels and even less useful for those with 20" wheels.

[scarry]

Why do you need something else? It's a _choice_ . If you want a transfer case you can have one.

Cheers,

Gordon

Agreed

Was talking more about low profile tyres,and limited tyre options.




"Comparing pressures in a 285/60R18 will probably not be any use for people with 19" wheels and even less useful for those with 20" wheels."

Many on here run 18"s,so the info i am sure would be helpful(for the people that run 18's).

[~Rich~]

Comparing pressures in a 285/60R18 will probably not be any use for people with 19" wheels and even less useful for those with 20" wheels.

This is quite true, on that section from Dalhousie to Mt Dare I was running at approx 24psi cold. I'm sure however it would of risen quite substantially during that drive!

What pressure you use is so much a drivers decision which can change day to day depending on road conditions. Yes it also alters with different sidewall aspect ratio's.

Experience plays a big part of this decision.

[phl]

So is the Disco an off road vehicle or not?

I am pretty sure it is sold as one,you only have to look at LR advertising.
[deleted]

And some models of the RRS/RR having no TC.

This will probably also filter down to the Disco as well.


In LR case, they can demonstrate the FFRR doing difficult tracks in 20" wheels; that's all most buyers want to know. Doesn't matter if it will last very long on those tracks...

As for TC, I know we bang on all day about it, but if there are enough gears, potentially there is no need for a TC. After all, the old vehicles were 4 speeds boxes, which, with TC, gave you 8 speeds at best (if not 7 due to overlap). As it is, the D4 generally starts in 2nd, so it's not inconceivable that we can have a 10 speed, with normal driving starting in 4th or 5th, but can drop down to 1st, which will be equivalent for 1st low. The torque converter also helps when driving off, albeit doesn't help when trying to retard speed.

[Dougal]

Why do you need something else? It's a _choice_ . If you want a transfer case you can have one.

Cheers,

Gordon

Even without a transfer case they have the same number of forward gears add the original range rover.

[Redback]

Also take into account that 2 vehicles travelling the same road are not going to have the same experience, one of those vehicals may have bad luck and other may not, regardless of the tyres or rim size.

When we did the high country in 2011/12, with our GG AT2 255/60/18s, we had 3 or 4 punchures, yet 4 months later on the same tyres going back to the High Country, we had none and we were travelling on rougher tracks.

Sometimes **** happens

Baz.

[PhilipA]

Hmm re the no low range.
I read a reprot by a bloke with a new Freelander who went up Mt Pinnibar . AFAIR it was on Exploroz.
Anyway he got to the top OK but he reported in passing sort of that his transmission overheat light had come on on the way up.

Now IMHO one of the functions of low range is to keep the transmission cooler than it would be in high range in slow going as there is less torque converter slip particlularly in sand on on very steep long hills.

Granted the new transmissions have a lower first but I doubt that it is as low as low first or second in a car with transfer box.

As many of us know, a transmission overheat light is not good and I wonder how many transmissions will be trashed by people without low range trying a bit too hard.

Regards Philip A

[jon3950]

This is quite true, on that section from Dalhousie to Mt Dare I was running at approx 24psi cold. I'm sure however it would of risen quite substantially during that drive!

What pressure you use is so much a drivers decision which can change day to day depending on road conditions. Yes it also alters with different sidewall aspect ratio's.

Experience plays a big part of this decision.

Exactly. And therein lies the problem.

I think too much misinformation is spread regarding lowering tyre pressures - 4wd magazines and the like saying you must run at this pressure etc, which people treat as gospel. Look at the Coopers recommendation earlier. Just saying run the same pressure all round suggests they don't understand what's happening on the Disco. LR recommend higher pressures at the rear for a reason.

The simple fact is that different tyres, running under different loads, in different conditions need different pressures to work properly. With high profile tyres running at low speed you can get away with a lot more, but as the profiles lowers the pressure becomes more critical as your playing with less sidewall.

Cheers,
Jon

[chuck]

I did a trip with a FL 2 in Toolangi.

The first big hill in drive it had a transmission overheat light come on.

After this it was put into 2nd for steep hills and did not have a problem.

In fact I was very impressed by its ability.

The 8 speed Amarok auto with no transfer case is getting very good off road reviews.

[~Rich~]

Please keep the topic "On Topic"
Thanks