Thank God for the Salvos

[LandyAndy]

The news over the last week has been shocking.
May those who did this to innocent children get what they deserve.
Andrew

[Chucaro]

I still cannot believe how people can do that, it is :censored:

[incisor]

trouble is the few bad ones destroy the overwhelming good the rest do...

[V8Ian]

When I saw the article I thought "If we can't trust the Salvos; who can we trust."
We do need to remember that these shockingly disgusting acts are only performed by a small minority of the groups from which they come.
Our repulsion is compounded by the hypocrisy of the perpetrators.

[schuy1]

And as far as Im concerned the media are no better than those accused, with the overwhelming slant being that the whole Salvation armys members are at fault! :o As Inc says there are only a few and accusing people willy nilly is shameful. To say that it was allowed is also wrong, these perpetrators are very very good at hiding their actions.But the same thing rares it head in that a very traumatic and emotional problem is being milked by the media.
Cheers Scott

[LandyAndy]

We dont know there were only a few yet.
A few priests,a few christian brothers,a few media entertainers.
A few always seems to become many.
I may be niave,but would never have thought this sought of crap would have happened in the Salvos.It seems children arent safe no mater what group is looking after them:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
Andrew

[twitchy]

I say just put them in general population & let them be dealt with correctly.:rocket:

[LandyAndy]

What really sickened me is the fact they were not only abusing the children but allegedly renting them out to other kiddy fiddlers.SAD.
Andrew

[incisor]

We dont know there were only a few yet.
A few priests,a few christian brothers,a few media entertainers.
A few always seems to become many.
I may be niave,but would never have thought this sought of crap would have happened in the Salvos.It seems children arent safe no mater what group is looking after them:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
Andrew

statistically and historically

the the vast majority of kiddy fiddling is done by close relatives in or near the kids home... by a magnitude of many many times ...

i still have trouble getting my head around the fact that i grew up in the middle of this, attended and mixed with kids attending schools reportedly with these issues, mingled with many hundreds of kids who were wards of the state living in places like nudgee orphanage and the one on the south side, nazareth house, many times had foster kids and the like living with me at home and i never ever once heard even a whisper or rumour of any of this sort of goings on, not one scareck.

truly astonishing is all i can say.

[incisor]

What really sickened me is the fact they were not only abusing the children but allegedly renting them out to other kiddy fiddlers.SAD.
Andrew

a very few were, not they all were....

hindsight is a marvelous thing... people were way too trusting it seems.

[Chucaro]

What really sickened me is the fact they were not only abusing the children but allegedly renting them out to other kiddy fiddlers.SAD.
Andrew

Add to that that few children escaped, when to the police to rise the matter and the police ignored them and returned them to the Salvos were they were place in cages. :mad:

[V8Ian]

i never ever once heard even a whisper or rumour of any of this sort of goings on, not one scareck.

truly astonishing is all i can say.

Not really Dave fear and shame were on the side of the sickos; fear of reprisal; fear of not being believed and fear of the shame and taunts from peers.
In our day an adult was always believed over a child.

[sheerluck]

What this proves is that wherever you have vulnerable or impressionable kids, you'll get sickos there to take advantage. Whether it's the Catholic priests, Salvos children's homes, foster carers or schools, it seems that there's always someone wanting to take advantage of their position in the worst way possible.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

What has me wondering is that the Salvos made a compensation payment to one of the victims many years ago and promoted one of the alleged perpetrators from Captain to Major and only today suspended him.

Who's been covering up what?

[incisor]

Not really Dave fear and shame were on the side of the sickos; fear of reprisal; fear of not being believed and fear of the shame and taunts from peers.
In our day an adult was always believed over a child.

i can't remember a kid acting odd, sobbing, cowering in fear or anything that would have twigged you that something was amiss..

true, it was a whole different world.

my mum and dad, over the years looked after many many kids from orphanages etc and she has no recollection of ever having even the slightest inkling that any of this could have been happening. she is thankful my old man never got wind of it or he would have been done for murdering someone.

[Graz]

It really disturbed me to hear about this abuse, I have a lot of time for the Salvo's due the enormous good they do for the community.
Over here in WA if a large brushfire occurs they always turn up with their gear to feed us and other brigade crews all hours of the day until the fire is extinguished.
I always have a few gold coins for the Salvo's when they do their tin rattling.
I think the majority of people will understand this abuse is the result of a few bad eggs and that the vast majority of the people in the organisation are good so continue to support them when they can.

[superquag]

Incisor, you will rarely if ever have heard of it, Kids involved compensate, compartmentalize, deny and hide it. From themselves,,,and everyone else. Even they don't always comprehend the totallity of what they're being subjected to.

.What your parents provided was a very normal, safe and highly desirable enviroment which was a safe haven for these kids. There was no way in the world would they risk it by mentioning dark secrets (if any). Rarely will they confide amongst their peer group, much less to other adults/parents... Sad, but true.
Which is why the perpetrators get away with so much for so long. When they die is when their 'targets' begin to feel safe enough to open up...

Spent 9 years of my school days at church-run boarding schools..

On a matter of 'scientific' observation, this kind of self-supporting group behaviour is not limited to perverts. Any group will close up and protect its own members... Businessmen know 'who' in their circle are the shonky (er) operators, yet would'nt report them to the relative governing bodies, Cops are known for closing ranks, and medical ..... well, how easy is it to get a Doctor to dob in, much less testify against a fellow Fellow !!!
And we all know the fate of Nurses blowing whistles on meglomaniacal medicos. Especially in Queensland...

[JDNSW]

Thinking back to my childhood, I remember one boy in our class (would have been about grade 5) was away a week or two and when he came back had some quite severe damage to his face half healed. He did not want to talk about it so none of us insisted. It is only in recent years that I have realised that he must have been beaten up, almost certainly by his father. In those days, it would have been considered nobody else's business, and no investigation would have been held by anyone, even if, for example, school teachers had suspicions.

Sexual abuse, leaving no obvious physical damage, would have even less chance of being investigated. The victim would not have talked about it - nobody talked (publicly) about sex in those days and certainly not children, who were supposed to be asexual and ignorant of anything to do with it. Any child who did, in any context, would embarrass the adult they talked to, and would themselves be the one who came under suspicion.

These attitudes only began to change in the 1980s, but remained very widespread to the end of the twentieth century, and even today - look at the outcries you still hear about sex education or nudity (e.g. the outcry about the Henson pictures, found on classification to be G or PG rated!).

I cannot escape thinking that the great enabler for this sort of activity is the attitude of society to sex, which has historically ensured that secrecy will be preserved and is still a strong force in this direction.

Of course, as has been pointed out by incisor, statistically, the vast majority of sexual assaults on children are made by close family members, usually the father. This being the case, should we be at all surprised that where an institution is acting in loco parentis, father figures in the institution are sometimes doing the same? It might be instructive to compare the proportions of institutional 'parents' who are guilty to real parents who are, but since both classes are almost certainly greatly underreported, it is probably a waste of time to try.

John

[ramblingboy42]

I have been a youth counsellor and as Inc says , more fiddling is done in the homes than what is reported.

The fact that the very same organisations that should be supporting are actively participating is very disturbing.

As a counsellor I was aware of some awful situations but unless the victims wanted police action, then none was taken....except in extreme cases where we would meet with senior counsellors and discuss all ramifications before reporting the matter and then 'we' had to give evidence.

In many cases we knew the perpetrator well and that was hard.

I hope this doesn't tarnish the Sallies too much.

The micks have been dealing with it so long they've become professional at it.

[alittlebitconcerned]

These BS so called christian religious institutes sicken me beyond belief.
Ok, not everyone in them are peodophiles, but lets not ignore that MANY people in these clubs knew/know of what has/is going on and did/do nothing. Those that argue against this fact are ignorant or self delusional.
A sick and twisted state of affairs that has been going on as long as there have been "churches". Argue against me if you will but I know of far too many people from many different denominations that have first hand experience of cover ups and abuse.

[Chucaro]

These BS so called christian religious institutes sicken me beyond belief.
Ok, not everyone in them are peodophiles, but lets not ignore that MANY people in these clubs knew/know of what has/is going on and did/do nothing. Those that argue against this fact are ignorant or self delusional.
A sick and twisted state of affairs that has been going on as long as there have been "churches". Argue against me if you will but I know of far too many people from many different denominations that have first hand experience of cover ups and abuse.

IMO it have nothing to do with institutions have to do with some of the dark sides of human nature.
If you leave for a moment the sexual abuse and concentrate in physical abuse only think about slavery and trafficking of children and the possibilities that some of the products that are made by them are purchased by us here in Oz.
I think that we have to look what we unintentionally allowed to happen were we invest and what we purchase.
Ethical investment in shares and super is a good place to start.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Children who are victims of abuse and sexual assault are not always the ones cowering and crying in the corner, not always the shy or withdrawn ones they may be the children acting out and getting into trouble. They don't display a single set of identifiable symptoms.

Rock spiders on the other hand are frequently "nice" personable people holding positions of respect in the community. I won't say respectable people.

[UncleHo]

In the 18+ years that I was a school bus driver, both Primary and Secondary only on 2 occasions did I detect bruises and marks on children, 1 boy and 1 girl, both with severe belt/strap marks on legs and bruises on the girl's cheeks,my management had a policy of drivers reporting all and any suspicions,which I duly did on each occasion,he reported same to Education Dept.which I presume took appropriate action. But I did have a year 9 girl try to come on strongly to me,she was my daughter's class mate,wouldn't take NO for an answer, and got quite narky at the rebuff,she was eventually expelled for coming on to a male teacher,very sad in a way the girl obviously needed professional help, that was back in the 1980's and 90's.gave it up in 2000 after 18+ years, the kids became too feral.:mad:

[alittlebitconcerned]

IMO it have nothing to do with institutions have to do with some of the dark sides of human nature.
If you leave for a moment the sexual abuse and concentrate in physical abuse only think about slavery and trafficking of children and the possibilities that some of the products that are made by them are purchased by us here in Oz.
I think that we have to look what we unintentionally allowed to happen were we invest and what we purchase.
Ethical investment in shares and super is a good place to start.

I think the darker side of human nature is more easily kept in check when there are direct consequences for actions, and corrupted institutes effectively short circuit this law of the jungle. It is infinitely more insidious when the institute that loudly preaches peace, justice, honesty and love, does so while destroying innocent lives.
On a side note, the interesting thing i've noticed with my Ethical super is that it generally does better than the main stream ones.

[superquag]

"...Rock spiders on the other hand are frequently "nice" personable people holding positions of respect in the community. ..."

Amen to that. - From my experience these folk are always extremely likeable, ranging from meek and mild, through to delightfully extroverted. but always liked and trusted by ordinary folk...

There was a particularly nasty person in a major country town over here... very well connected to many other Leading & Respectable citizens...had them all fooled for years whilst he did his damage. Some even defended him at his trial.

No, he was'nt a Catholic or a Salvo...:eek:

[rangietragic]

Reminds me of that cretin ferguson,one look at him and you would think kids would have run a mile.Successful conmen are usually nice and trustworthy on the surface also.A few rotten salvos has not diminished my general respect for them though.