Chinese Diff-locks (RD128)

[Tikka7mm08]

Hi - I have got one for the rear (Puma 90) with compressor, switches, etc and will get it fitted (next week). The first impression is these are solid and well made - price NZD750. I know the price seems at odds with the first 2 qualities!

I thought I might post some close-up photos in case anyone is interested, and then report on how it goes.

Bob

[Marty110]

Hi there, thanks for the post. A friend of mine who builds diff locks and re-builds diffs, trans, etc looked at getting gears made in China (he currently gets them made in Italy) mainly had problems with the quality of the steel and hard facing. It was mainly with consistency - 7/10 would measure out at the specified hardness the rest would fail - the failure rate was too high. That was a few years ago so will be interested to see the longevity of these as things have changed in China with their increasing participation in car manufacturing.

[benji]

I wad talking to one of the engineers at arb about these Chinese copies. He was saying the steel is hard, but not tough; so it will fatigue easy over time (wether that's biase or not...)

I did hear a story about one of these centres destroying itself on a corrugated road.

But the proof is in the pudding; that was a while ago now.

[Tombie]

Personally I think that knowingly buying an illegal copy of a companys product is immoral.

It deters investment and ongoing development... Why should companies continue to develope their product is people buy the knock off?

These Chinalockers are the old generation locker, without all the improvements of the current units - and have questionable hardening on the gear surfaces.

For $300.00 more you could of had the real deal, and a warranty...

If that cheap locker breaks / grinds itself to pieces, the cost will be a lot more than your savings...

Note: I wish you no malace, the above comments are my opinion only, and I hope you incur no further out of pocket expenses due to the quality of your purchase...

[Tikka7mm08]

This thread is about a test of these lockers, morality and ethics of the product are above my pay grade. As an aside ARB lockers cost a lot more in NZ.

[Drover]

Personally I think that knowingly buying an illegal copy of a companys product is immoral.

It deters investment and ongoing development... Why should companies continue to develope their product is people buy the knock off?

These Chinalockers are the old generation locker, without all the improvements of the current units - and have questionable hardening on the gear surfaces.

For $300.00 more you could of had the real deal, and a warranty...

If that cheap locker breaks / grinds itself to pieces, the cost will be a lot more than your savings...

Note: I wish you no malace, the above comments are my opinion only, and I hope you incur no further out of pocket expenses due to the quality of your purchase...

Don't find myself agreeing with Tombie much, but he is spot on with this one.

I got a quote from Ashcroft a few weeks ago for front air locker, HD gears set up in the centre. £ 850.

I get that is AUD$1300 -an extra $600ish but it's an Ashcroft and a full bolt up, Quality is unquestionable.

It will be the Ashcroft for me and when I am 3000k's from help I won't give it second thought.

[Tikka7mm08]

Righto fellas I was trying to do a helpful thread as I had trouble finding first hand experience related about these lockers.If they don't perform then those like me considering PRC made may choose to go down a different path (as you both advocate). Please start your own thread on PRC vs everyone else etc. This thread is for the curious and interested.

[Wicks89]

Yeah dude I'm listening.

Without being a serious metallurgist you'd never know about the quality of the steel etc unless it was visibly dramatically worse or better. Even then you need them both side by side.

[Kevin B]

AsTikka said this thread is about testing a chinese locker, not a comparison between it and an ARB one and ill be watching for first impressions and any ongoing reports, im not advocating buying one over the other im just interested and when folks take a risk in the name of research im all for it, you never know, I hope it works well and never implodes.

[noogie]

Personally I think that knowingly buying an illegal copy of a companys product is immoral.

It deters investment and ongoing development... Why should companies continue to develope their product is people buy the knock off?

These Chinalockers are the old generation locker, without all the improvements of the current units - and have questionable hardening on the gear surfaces.

For $300.00 more you could of had the real deal, and a warranty...

If that cheap locker breaks / grinds itself to pieces, the cost will be a lot more than your savings...

Note: I wish you no malace, the above comments are my opinion only, and I hope you incur no further out of pocket expenses due to the quality of your purchase...

I couldn't agree more.
The cost of setting up the lockers isn't cheap so I would just pay extra and get the quality product that is proven and has a warranty.
There are videos on youtube that demonstrate the quality differences between Chinese rip offs and a quality locker.
Good luck all the same.:)

[Tikka7mm08]

FFS I didn't post seeking anyone's opinion on these lockers, I offered to share fact based experience to inform the forum for those interested. I understand the nature of a forum is that it invokes discussion and opinions being offered but please can we stop using this thread and start a new one for those that want to talk about PRC made lockers vs others, the ethics of such lockers and so on. I am not doing a comparison test, simply reporting on lockers that I have purchased.

[2stroke]

Don't know about the Rover ones but I've been playing with 2 chinalockers for my 2stroke Suzuki 4x4. Finish doesn't seem all that great but they have the "U" profile o-ring and commonly available 6mm airline, instead of the ARB only 5mm stuff. Tested one on the bench and it locks, unlocks, doesn't leak. Not saying I'd put one in the Rover but certainly okay for the Suzuki and I'm certain to give it a thorough test. Have to build the housings first though.

[Tikka7mm08]

and I'm certain to give it a thorough test.

Would be interested to see how you get on. I fly home late tonight and hope to upload some photos tomorrow. I only had a chance to have a quick look at the gear teeth and they seem very well cut. I read somewhere about people removing machining burrs before putting these in but I can't see any on this set although the outside has some scratches but this shouldn't effect operation.

[Tikka7mm08]

At risk of fuelling the comparison fire that I am attempting to quell...NZ supplied ARB locker $1886 incGST and compressor (baby one just for lockers) is $312inc. So around $2200 or nearly 3x the cost of the Chinese locker/compressor I've bought to experiment with. Going to be interesting to see how they go.

[Kevin B]

i will be interested in seeing the outcome of your testing Tikka, i have been for a while been contemplating getting lockers, just cannot justify paying 2/3 the value of my D1 for them if not more in some cases, i will be watching closely, hoping you put in lots of pictures and details about the install and the end result when you finally get them out in the weeds for a test, there are litterally thousands of products to come out of china, some really good and some that are totally ****, same with Local made poroducts..

[Tikka7mm08]

Will get lots of product shots for you, will try re fitting but that is going to be done by land rover specialist who has done quite a few. I know what you mean about accessory cost vs vehicle value - I have '78 SIII that I'd love to put a Roverdrive (o/d) into but they are about $2250.

[Chilly]

Hi Tikka7mm08,

I thought I had read on this forum before regarding these lockers..have you done a search...thought they had been given good reports....

[Tikka7mm08]

Hey mate yeah I did try a search - was hoping to revive or add to a thread. Didn't hit anything under chinese rd128...

[Tank]

Hey mate yeah I did try a search - was hoping to revive or add to a thread. Didn't hit anything under chinese rd128...
Go to the bottom of this page, left hand corner and type in Chinese Lockers and you will some info on these lockers, Regards Frank.

[Tikka7mm08]

Thank you Tank - works a lot better than than the search at the top. I'll post photos here soon, other threads seem to get into a lot of debate.

[Tikka7mm08]

http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx251/Tikka7mm08/Mobile%20Uploads/20140206_092707_zpsargugvqp.jpg

http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx251/Tikka7mm08/Mobile%20Uploads/20140206_092842_zpsaa8xih2y.jpg

http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx251/Tikka7mm08/Mobile%20Uploads/20140206_093004_zpsupnwtkov.jpg

http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx251/Tikka7mm08/Mobile%20Uploads/20140206_093037_zps27vupukv.jpg

http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx251/Tikka7mm08/Mobile%20Uploads/20140206_093205_zps9co3v1vh.jpg

http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx251/Tikka7mm08/Mobile%20Uploads/20140206_093226_zpsuj8mkq1k.jpg

[123rover50]

Did the ARB book come with the Chinese kit?:eek:

[Kevin B]

it actually stands for Asian Re-Branded... lol :wasntme:

[Tikka7mm08]

Yes it did, was quite surprised as that is really taking the ****!

[2stroke]

Does it only have a single cross shaft? My older ones for the Suzuki are 4 pinion is this one only 2 pinion? :eek: Don't ever remember seeing instructions at all for mine.

[Tikka7mm08]

Can't check. At the 7's in Wellington now.

[Judo]

:lol2: @ manual.

I don't think I could bring myself to buy a cheap knock off locker at this stage, but am happily following to see your experience!

[benji]

Wow, those costs are prohibitive aren't they! And to add to the heat, fuel in NZ is over $2 a litre... ouch.

Best of luck with the locker; no offense meant with my comments.

[Ancient Mariner]

I bought a 3 jaw chinese lathe chuck about one third the price of a top english model.The quality was excellent as good as the english one. 40+years on still in use and as good as the day it was purchased .So I would`nt knock it just because its chinese Just a bit of luck needed

AM

[steane]

Plenty of people are running chockers in other makes without any issues. I personally know a few who are giving them a hard time without a problem with the actual locker. Only failure I know of is with the ARB copy compressor, a couple of which had issues in the first 18mths.

I'm sure theyll work alright in a landy which should get a few beards twitching:p

[Kevin B]

PMSL @ Chockers ....

[Busman]

I have run Chinese lockers for a few years without issue.
On my RRC l was running up to 37's with no issue at any point.
I now have one in the rear of my D2, no issue.
I also have them in my comp truck with 42 iroks, happy to run them
with no issues.

Says it all ready !!

[Tikka7mm08]

+1 for 'Chockers'.

Cheers Dave - great to hear some positive first hand experience. I'm already thinking about the front diff!!

[Kevin B]

hey all,

seeing as we are talking about Lockers, just a thought also, if your only going to install one which would you do Front or rear??

Sorry Tikka if this is a hijack let me know and ill edit it to a few Smileys :)

Kevin

[Tikka7mm08]

Always read rear first of only 1 locker.

[Judo]

Definitely rear for me.

[Corgie Carrier]

Did you get the lockers off eBay? Do you have a link?

Neale

Sent from my MEDION E4002 using AULRO mobile app

[voltron]

Im not sure of Tikas supplier but these are guys who I have seen good reports from. I wasn't going to go down this path but now Tika has brought it up, it has def generated more interest for me.

RD128 / RD56 (http://www.china4x4extreme.com/item.asp?Id=280)

[Tikka7mm08]

Air Locker -RD128 Landrover (Diff Lock) | Trade Me (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=686714866)

I couldn't get them cheaper direct.

[Witchdoctor]

Try these guys

4wd Air Lockers, 4wd Air Lockers direct from Guangzhou Deliang Auto Accessory Co., Ltd. in China (Mainland) (http://dl4wd.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-214027237/4wd_Air_Lockers.html)

Never used them but very good price, the price i got quoted from them was $480USD including everything needed to operate without fitting

Cheers
David

[2stroke]

So Tikka is it 4 pinion or 2? To me if it's 2 pinion that'd be a dealbreaker more so than being Chinese.

[Tikka7mm08]

Flying home today so will look...pinions are the 'crossmember' things?

[rangieman]

Flying home today so will look...pinions are the 'crossmember' things?

Yes the cross shaft in the centre , The pin you can see in the middle between the two axle drive splines;)

[Tikka7mm08]

http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx251/Tikka7mm08/Mobile%20Uploads/20140209_171127_zpsqtlr1atl.jpg

ok there are 4 circles like these around the outside. One pinion goes right thru (2 circles), then there are 2 pinions that separately go in to the center (2 other circles). Does this sound right?

[2stroke]

Okay, thanks, yep that's 4 pinion, those "circles" are the cross shafts for the pinion gears. It's the newer ARB "2piece" design.

[Tikka7mm08]

Okay that's good to know...dropping truck off today and will pick up end of week, keen to post photos of fitment and video of it in action.

[Tikka7mm08]

Spoke to LR people putting it in - set it up on lathe and all is straight and true. It is so good and like for like they actually think they are produced for ARB on the quiet so they don't miss out altogether! I don't think that is likely. Wheel bearing also needs replacing - bugger.

[Tikka7mm08]

Very pleased with fitting...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx251/Tikka7mm08/Mobile%20Uploads/20140214_142937_zpscceutnka.jpg

http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx251/Tikka7mm08/Mobile%20Uploads/20140214_1428180_zpsyabwadtc.jpg

[gromit]

I'm interested to see how the locker performs.

There are some pictures here http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/191538-inside-wenling-haifeng-difflock-company.html of what I think is the HF difflock factory.



Colin

[rar110]

I'm interested to see how the locker performs. There are some pictures here http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/191538-inside-wenling-haifeng-difflock-company.html of what I think is the HF difflock factory. Colin

Looks like some factories here in the 70s before WPHS.

[gromit]

Looks like some factories here in the 70s before WPHS.

Did factories here back then also have what looks like a very high scrap rate ?
On a positive note at least they have some sort of quality control......


Colin

[Tikka7mm08]

gave them a whirl last night. Got to point where no traction, flicked on the chocker in the rear and away I went. Very keen on front locker now.

[squidsd1]

How much has it cost u all up with installation, postage etc ? Glad they turned out for u

Sent from my GT-I9305T using AULRO mobile app

[Tikka7mm08]

locker $750 (front now ordered). Fitting inc wiring, and a wheel bearing replaced was $1150...

[squidsd1]

That is so good

Sent from my GT-I9305T using AULRO mobile app

[Tikka7mm08]

I felt a sharp pain on the fitting cost...good thing is the front is straight forward as all the wiring is in for it.

[n plus one]

FYI, it looks like my mate's (genuine) rear ARB locker has lunched itself after the first dozen or so uses - looks like its done a bit of broader damage to the diff too.

[Tombie]

FYI, it looks like my mate's (genuine) rear ARB locker has lunched itself after the first dozen or so uses - looks like its done a bit of broader damage to the diff too.


Ten to the dollar it's installation or cw&p failure

[Tikka7mm08]

i will only use mine at idle speeds...hoping to have a long run with it - magic feeling with front left and rear right wheels spinning to flick 2 switched and drive out.

[voltron]

From Tenda Off Road Accessories I just got given a delivered price for front and rear RD 128 and RD 138 by air shipping $1278 total US. This includes both compressors.

I guess if you only want the rear then you would halve that.

Cheers

[Tikka7mm08]

Does the 128 also go in the front on a Puma 90??

[voltron]

Does the 128 also go in the front on a Puma 90??

The way the email reads, the 138 goes in the rear and 128 in the front of the 90 as well as the 110, yes that is correct.

[Didge]

AUD995 will get you an Ashcroft locker from Lucky8 in the USA and AUD879 will get you one from Ashcroft in England so why gamble on a cheap copy to save a $100 odd dollars when you can buy what are arguably the best for a tiny bit more. I assume you'd also have to add freight with the Chockers.

[n plus one]

AUD995 will get you an Ashcroft locker from Lucky8 in the USA and AUD879 will get you one from Ashcroft in England so why gamble on a cheap copy to save a $100 odd dollars when you can buy what are arguably the best for a tiny bit more. I assume you'd also have to add freight with the Chockers.

I thought he said $1278US landed including two compressors?

[Didge]

Yeah the price I just checked on was lockers only. Mind you, I'm always mindful of not wasting money on an old car by buying accessories are, for the most part, largely unnecessary. You can easily do most of Oz without lockers.

[Slunnie]

Yeah the price I just checked on was lockers only. Mind you, I'm always mindful of not wasting money on an old car by buying accessories are, for the most part, largely unnecessary. You can easily do most of Oz without lockers.

You can do most of oz without a 4wd. Everybody plays differently.

[Tombie]

You can do most of oz without a 4wd. Everybody plays differently.


And some of us also like building vehicles for the fun of it as well :)

[Tikka7mm08]

Was definitely a 128 I put in the rear and I thought they can go in the front too. Yeah I probably don't a locker, in fact probably not even tla 4wd...but I do like knowing if needed I have the capability.

[voltron]

Was definitely a 128 I put in the rear and I thought they can go in the front too. Yeah I probably don't a locker, in fact probably not even tla 4wd...but I do like knowing if needed I have the capability.

I am the same tbh, most of the time I probably don't need a locker much like my winch, but should I need it, then I may as well have it their available even if they are chokers. If Im stuck and all I have is chokers, I guess it's better then having nothing.

[rar110]

so its been about 3 weeks since you gave an update. How is the new locker going?

[Tombie]

I am the same tbh, most of the time I probably don't need a locker much like my winch, but should I need it, then I may as well have it their available even if they are chokers. If Im stuck and all I have is chokers, I guess it's better then having nothing.


Keep in mind...

Having a cheap winch - when you need it, it likely won't do the job - Seen this several times...

Same for poor metallurgical quality lockers...

To compare: Would you trust the cheapest parachute?

[dullbird]

Mike

Of course you would!!

Using the same context as Voltron

You telling me that if the only parachute left in a diving plane was one that said made in Taiwan you wouldn't put it on?


Sorry Mike that's a terrible anallagy :lol2:

[Tombie]

Yes I would, but I wouldn't be expecting the best out of it...

In fact, I'd be expecting to be going splat!!!!!!!

[Tombie]

I'd also use a plastic cup to throw water on a fire - but wouldn't expect it to be suitable or likely to help!!!

[dullbird]

And that's his point surely something is better than nothing at all

[Tombie]

Nah... Getting into a jam (with the thought that if it goes bad your cheap winch/locker/parachute will save your life/vehicle) is not a good place to be... It's more likely to end in tears.

How's this for an analogy?

If I had to go to war as a soldier, I'd want the best armour, and The best weapon.

I'd want to know when I pull the trigger it won't jam, and will fire every time, as it should.

And I want to know my armour will protect me from everything it's designed to stop.

:)

[Tombie]

And that's his point surely something is better than nothing at all


A condom with a hole in it is no better than not having one :D

Hahahaha

[Wal Rat]

Why do just about all post here end up with someone waxing on about it is legal or not do only lawyers drive land rovers or is it wannabe ......?

[gromit]

Why do just about all post here end up with someone waxing on about it is legal or not do only lawyers drive land rovers or is it wannabe ......?

A lot of people don't want cheap 'knock off' products because they are usually inferior copies. Some people have morals or standards and would rather buy the genuine product.

If everyone purchases the 'knock offs' then there is little development of the product because the manufacturer has no money coming in for R&D.
The Chinese lockers are an older ARB design so if you pay the extra for the real thing you get the latest, stronger design.

It's interesting that the Chinese companies spend time/money copying a known brand so that they can sell off the back of that companies marketing and advertising. If they actually developed their own design they could spend more time/money in the engineering of the product and might produce a half decent product.

Wannabe lawyers......I don't think so.


Colin

[Tombie]

Why do just about all post here end up with someone waxing on about it is legal or not do only lawyers drive land rovers or is it wannabe ......?


How about if there were unregistered, in regulated tow truck operators??? Zipping around under Cutting the industry.

Feel really happy then?

[Markvesna]

Personally I think that knowingly buying an illegal copy of a companys product is immoral.

It deters investment and ongoing development... Why should companies continue to develope their product is people buy the knock off?

These Chinalockers are the old generation locker, without all the improvements of the current units - and have questionable hardening on the gear surfaces.

For $300.00 more you could of had the real deal, and a warranty...

If that cheap locker breaks / grinds itself to pieces, the cost will be a lot more than your savings...

Note: I wish you no malace, the above comments are my opinion only, and I hope you incur no further out of pocket expenses due to the quality of your purchase...

Yer but isn't the Defenders gear box built built in china :confused:

[Gerokent]

Yer but isn't the Defenders gear box built built in china :confused:

No, the ford mustang's gearbox is made in china, not the deefer.

[gromit]

Yer but isn't the Defenders gear box built built in china :confused:

'Made in China' and design blatently copied by a Chinese company are two different thngs......


Colin

[FeatherWeightDriver]

A condom with a hole in it is no better than not having one :D

I disagree - it is worse! ;):eek::twisted:

[Mick_Marsh]

A condom with a hole in it is no better than not having one :D

Hahahaha
Oddly, that's how friends got their third child.

[voltron]

If someone can't afford the real deal ARB locker, does that mean then they have no moral right to have any kind of locker despite the fact there is a cheaper possibly inferior one available that they can afford?

I think this is why people buy Supercheap gear instead of OL gear or ARB gear. I personally never had any intention of a Locker but if it was cheap enough then the thought does cross my mind.

I have a moral high horse I sit on for downloading illegal music and movies, but I don't preach it. It's just a personal thing I believe in.

[gromit]

If someone can't afford the real deal ARB locker, does that mean then they have no moral right to have any kind of locker despite the fact there is a cheaper possibly inferior one available that they can afford?

I think this is why people buy Supercheap gear instead of OL gear or ARB gear. I personally never had any intention of a Locker but if it was cheap enough then the thought does cross my mind.



The issue is the blatent copying of an existing product. In the case of the locker, right down to copying ARB's packaging and then including a copy of the ARB instructions, with their logo on, which are copyrighted.
If it was just the choice of buying a cheaper locker then it's a different issue.

When ARB post the videos of their tests of the Chinese lockers on YouTube everyone claims it was a 'set up'.
ARB can't win.......


Colin

[weeds]

it can be tough maintaining our hobbies whether it be 4wding, mtbing, fishing, model planes etc etc.........

I try and buy genuine good quality gear that is value for money, sometime if have to make a compromise.......if I couldn't afford say and arb locker I would probably go an auto locker first than the copy last...bless the previous owner of my rig who install front and rear arb lockers

each to their own and spend your hard earnt dollars which ever way you want.

[voltron]

The issue is the blatent copying of an existing product. In the case of the locker, right down to copying ARB's packaging and then including a copy of the ARB instructions, with their logo on, which are copyrighted.
If it was just the choice of buying a cheaper locker then it's a different issue.

When ARB post the videos of their tests of the Chinese lockers on YouTube everyone claims it was a 'set up'.
ARB can't win.......


Colin

Blame ARB for making such a good product I suppose. :p

IN all seriousness some people just can't foot their bill so will look for other options, that can't be stopped I guess.

[workingonit]

And if I bleed 'I can't afford an ARB or Chinese locker copy infringement...then down to the local pub to buy the parts from your stolen vehicle...should be OK?!

Or is it a case that some of ARB design is out of copyright? Therefore open to legit copying.

[gromit]

Or is it a case that some of ARB design is out of copyright? Therefore open to legit copying.

So the Chinese feel the need to copy ARB packaging & instructions as well as the product ?

I guess it's a problem selling a vehicle with lockers. Do they add to it's value unless the seller has an invoice with the registration number on it ? "Yes mate, they're genuine ARB lockers, I saw the box they came in and still have the instructions........."


Colin

[frantic]

it can be tough maintaining our hobbies whether it be 4wding, mtbing, fishing, model planes etc etc.........

I try and buy genuine good quality gear that is value for money, sometime if have to make a compromise.......if I couldn't afford say and arb locker I would probably go an auto locker first than the copy last...bless the previous owner of my rig who install front and rear arb lockers

each to their own and spend your hard earnt dollars which ever way you want.

Yup I did this to the rear sals with a genuine Detroit direct from lucky8 USA. Served me well with hy-Tuff axles so far. I'm now thinking about front but a copy is not on my radar, rather a used maxi or wait n save for ARB/Ashcroft.

As to copyright! It does not exist in China and outside China most companies are to scared to pursue legal action. A cherry that look identical to a rav 4 or a great Wall that looks the same as a d-max / rodeo.

[workingonit]

They copy the ARB paperwork because 'Ingrish' is not their first language and saves a few more dollars on translating (poorly) their own set of instructions. It is cheeky. Wonder what steps ARB takes to fight this, other that youtube vids?

I've got Ashcroft lockers which were easy to install.

Just so this appears relevant to the originator of the thread my friend (Chinese Australian ironically) got some socialist lockers for his Jimny - to test them he locked up the vehicle and donuted it in a local car park for about 15 minutes before deciding all was good.

[rar110]

Is it such a moral problem if ARB don't make or sell this model locker any more. I thought copyright covered R & D for 10 years then open slather.

I can see a problem if ARB release a product and immediately after copies of the same, better or lesser quality flood the market.

I am still on the fence, superseded chocker or Detroit. They are about the same price.

[gromit]

Is it such a moral problem if ARB don't make or sell this model locker any more. I thought copyright covered R & D for 10 years then open slather.

I can see a problem if ARB release a product and immediately after copies of the same, better or lesser quality flood the market.

I am still on the fence, superseded chocker or Detroit. They are about the same price.

Did you look at the link I posted that shows the inside of the Chinese factory ?
ÎÂÁëÊк£·ç²îËÙÆ÷ÓÐÏÞ¹«Ë¾ ³ÏÐŵµ°¸ (http://kcjxpj.1688.com/page/creditdetail.htm)

Might help make your mind up.


Colin

[frantic]

Just a question, do they make a copy of the Detroit ?
That is older than any ARB and has a bigger market. Or are the yanks more likely to sue them so they don't do it?

[Tombie]

Patent infringement aside, I just wouldn't / won't trust the unknown metallurgical properties of these things in my vehicle.

A failure is a show stopper...

[gromit]

Patent infringement aside, I just wouldn't / won't trust the unknown metallurgical properties of these things in my vehicle.

A failure is a show stopper...

You also need to consider that the cheapo Chinese diff centre is in use every day you drive the vehicle.
110Kph down the freeway with your kids onboard and relying on the unknown materials used in a diff centre that was made down to a price not to a specification ?
Every time you take a corner those cast gears, possibly with incorrect backlash settings, are meshing & grinding away.....

I had a look at the internals of a Chinese locker recently and one of the funniest things were the thrust washers. ARB - hardened & ground steel. Chocker - one stamped from brass the other from copper !?
I'm not saying they are all like this but I guess they are made from whatever is available at the time.


You might be lucky.......but why take the risk ?



Colin

[flagg]

Did you look at the link I posted that shows the inside of the Chinese factory ?
ÎÂÁëÊк£·ç²îËÙÆ÷ÓÐÏÞ¹«Ë¾ ³ÏÐŵµ°¸ (http://kcjxpj.1688.com/page/creditdetail.htm)

Might help make your mind up.


Colin

Mmmm OH&S

[2stroke]

I wouldn't consider putting one in my Landie but I am in the process of putting 2 in my LJ50. I bought them secondhand, still in boxes. Because there's so much experimentation involved to adapt them for this purpose (Vitara crownwheel & pinion in Sierra pinion housing in custom axle housings) I'd prefer to take a punt on these cheaper options. Besides if they fail in the Suzuki I won't be far from home (or the Landie and trailer at worst:)). Should they fail in the 130 it could potentially be life and death.
The ones I have are the older 3 piece ARB design and although the finish doesn't compare to ARB's product the things seem to go together fine and there's no backlash issues in the planetaries and the thrust washers seemed okay, though can't remember what they are made of, steel I think. They don't leak at all on a bench test.
Looking at the one in Tikka's pictures it is actually ARB's current 2 piece design even.

[frantic]

Personal experience with "steel". There are many different grades and quality of those steels. We use the only aus manufacturer of steel rope (one steel) for our cranes, several years ago some bean counter switched to a foreign(china or India) made brand that they claimed had "exactly the same grade and make". The failure rate more than doubled, as did the down time repairing faster wearing ropes . They quickly switched back to Oz made rope.
Now 2stroke it might be made of "steel" but if the chemistry is wrong( say to much carbon) it may as well be porcelein :twisted:

[2stroke]

Personal experience with "steel". There are many different grades and quality of those steels.
Now 2stroke it might be made of "steel" but if the chemistry is wrong( say to much carbon) it may as well be porcelein :twisted:
The steel I was referring to was the planetary thrust washers. If anything the material the locker is made of is a bit soft, suits me fine as for the Suzuki it's more likely to be a shock load kill a diff than it actually wear out.
As I said my faith in the China locker doesn't extend to putting one into the Defender. That's due to the unknown of their metallurgy only.

[Tikka7mm08]

Just back from a week chasing Sika...so far I can report only good things. I have tried the locker a few times and it has worked flawlessly.

[CraigE]

This will be interesting to see how it performs long term.
I am on the fence a little with cheaper production items.
Does anyone by woolworths brand foods, SCR car accessories etc?
If I buy a winch for example for the amount of use it would get I think I would buy the cheaper version and just ensure it is maintained a lot like buying a Land Rover to begin with.
Chinese / Thai / Korean manufacturing is getting much better, so may be an option.
The question I have is are ARB lockers completely 100% Australian made, not assembled but made? I doubt it. My understanding is most of the casting is done OS, someone else may be able to confirm this.
Have also seen many ARB lockers fail and as said they use fittings that are hard to replace off the shelf.
What also annoys me is it is cheaper to buy an ARB locker in the US, so how does that work if they are made here. There is no excuse for this.
Not against an ARB lockers and if I fit one would be would probably be an ARB or Ashcroft.

[voltron]

.
What also annoys me is it is cheaper to buy an ARB locker in the US, so how does that work if they are made here. There is no excuse for this.
Not against an ARB lockers and if I fit one would be would probably be an ARB or Ashcroft.

My understanding would be that Economics determines this. The American population dwarfs Australia so a reduced price opeing them up to a larger market would see them still make huge profits. I asked this Question to a Billabong head honcho and this was the reasoning he gave me for comparing what we pay for an Australian brand and what they pay. $60 as opposed to $25 for the same shirt.

If this is right or not I don't know but that was the excuse I was given.

Cheers.

[CraigE]

My understanding would be that Economics determines this. The American population dwarfs Australia so a reduced price opeing them up to a larger market would see them still make huge profits. I asked this Question to a Billabong head honcho and this was the reasoning he gave me for comparing what we pay for an Australian brand and what they pay. $60 as opposed to $25 for the same shirt.

If this is right or not I don't know but that was the excuse I was given.

Cheers.

That comes down to were the product is made as well. Billabong has been made in China for years. Still no justification for $25 US and $60 in Australia. You can buy Billabong shorts in Thailand for around $10 genuine. I am wearing a pair atm and I have compared them to Billabong in surf shops here and they are identical. Having said that there are Thai imitations as well which while good ar not quite as bad.

[n plus one]

Just back from a week chasing Sika...so far I can report only good things. I have tried the locker a few times and it has worked flawlessly.

Thanks mate, keep us updated - we'll see how your cheapies fair against my mate's genuine locker - so far you're up one nil!

[jackz]

hey all,

seeing as we are talking about Lockers, just a thought also, if your only going to install one which would you do Front or rear??

Sorry Tikka if this is a hijack let me know and ill edit it to a few Smileys :)

Kevin
Many years ago I started looking at lockers for the 110,I could only afford to do one end of the truck. I did the front due to the fact that the front is the one that seems to do most of the work when climbing, and when in ruts, it is easier to climb the front out with the looker in the front.

[Gerokent]

[QUOTE=gromit;2106090]You also need to consider that the cheapo Chinese diff centre is in use every day you drive the vehicle.
110Kph down the freeway with your kids onboard and relying on the unknown materials used in a diff centre that was made down to a price not to a specification ?
Every time you take a corner those cast gears, possibly with incorrect backlash settings, are meshing & grinding away.....



Unknown materials, made to a price not a spec, incorrect backlash-
Sounds like you are describing a rover diff
:wasntme:

[Tombie]

If you have a vehicle with an LSD rear fit to the front, otherwise go rear.

Rear axle has the highest traction loads when climbing.
Only when the surface becomes so loose or slippery that traction is lacking (eg bog hole) does the front come into its own and pull you forward.

Lower tyre pressure up front compared to rear also assists in these situations.

[jackz]

If you have a vehicle with an LSD rear fit to the front, otherwise go rear.

Rear axle has the highest traction loads when climbing.
Only when the surface becomes so loose or slippery that traction is lacking (eg bog hole) does the front come into its own and pull you forward.

Lower tyre pressure up front compared to rear also assists in these situations.
not trying to start an argument, isn't it when the surface becomes so loose or slippery that traction is lacking (eg bog hole) that you want the locker to have maximum impact. When climbing, if the rear has a higher load, it is less likely to loose traction and spin one wheel, whereas maintaining drive to both wheels at the front end would be more advantagous.

[n plus one]

not trying to start an argument, isn't it when the surface becomes so loose or slippery that traction is lacking (eg bog hole) that you want the locker to have maximum impact. When climbing, if the rear has a higher load, it is less likely to loose traction and spin one wheel, whereas maintaining drive to both wheels at the front end would be more advantagous.

Yes, but up a steep hill a loss of rear traction will definitely stop you, a loss of front traction might/might not.

It's just a weight transfer issue - imagine you had a blown diff and had to get up a steep hill to get home - would you rather a blown front diff or a blown rear diff?

[gromit]

The question I have is are ARB lockers completely 100% Australian made, not assembled but made? I doubt it. My understanding is most of the casting is done OS, someone else may be able to confirm this.
Have also seen many ARB lockers fail and as said they use fittings that are hard to replace off the shelf.
What also annoys me is it is cheaper to buy an ARB locker in the US, so how does that work if they are made here. There is no excuse for this.
Not against an ARB lockers and if I fit one would be would probably be an ARB or Ashcroft.

I know that the ARB casting for the lockers is carried out in NSW and heat treatment is done in VIC.

I cannot comment on the ARB lockers failing statement but at least you can buy spare parts for the ARB lockers, try to source parts for a chocker (I'm sure someone will now jump in and say 'that's because they don't break.....'). A lot of the chockers are 'hand made' ie. parts are made to fit each other which makes it almost impossible to provide spare parts without measuring the mating parts. ARB parts are all made to tolerances which allow full interchangeability.

When you say 'fittings that are hard to replace off the shelf' do you mean the airline fittings ? I work in the pneumatics industry and the 5mm tube and fittings are available if you know where to look. The company I work for has access to them but we don't stock them because nobody asks for them (one bloke every 6 months wanting one fitting is about the limit).
If it's a problem replace both fittings & the tube with 6mm OD. Also I think that ARB sell a repair kit with a 5mm tube joiner or they'll sell you the 1/8"BSP to 5mm fittings.

It's often cheaper to buy from the US because of the sheer volume of sales.
For example, a reseller in the US might shift 20 lockers per week, a 4WD shop in Melbourne sells maybe 2 per month. There will probably be a reccomended sell price but the US reseller can decide to reduce his profit margin because he is selling lots of units. He advertises the lower price and generates more sales (including overseas sales to Australia).
More purchasing power = better prices so as the US reseller's sales increase he probably gets a better price.
You also have to factor in exchange rates and whether you end up paying GST when you import.



Colin

[voltron]

Yes, but up a steep hill a loss of rear traction will definitely stop you, a loss of front traction might/might not.

It's just a weight transfer issue - imagine you had a blown diff and had to get up a steep hill to get home - would you rather a blown front diff or a blown rear diff?

Is it easier to push or pull, is that what your saying?

[jackz]

That's fair enough if you have to choose to only have one operating diff, however in the case where you have TWO operating diffs, which, let's face it, is the ideal scenario when out using your vehicle, I prefer to be able to drive the front end up onto obstacles being as that is where the majority of the weigh is in the Ute, the back end seems to just be pulled easily up anything that the front has traveled over.
It seems to be a similar thing to getting a loaded wheel-barrow over a large rock; is easier to pull it over than push it!

[workingonit]

Up hill the weight transfers to the rear(?) then there is torque screw that might also lift the front and cause traction loss. In worse case flip vehicle front to rear on its roof - my understanding why you should drive tractors backward up steep hills.

[rar110]

Up hill the weight transfers to the rear(?) then there is torque screw that might also lift the front and cause traction loss. In worse case flip vehicle front to rear on its roof - my understanding why you should drive tractors backward up steep hills.
Wheel standing a fergy 135 up a hill is a scary experience.

[Bushie]

My take is that everything I have come across that has a locking device, be it automatic, limited slip or detroit etc, if there's only one it's in the rear.


Martyn

[jackz]

I think the whole argument about front or rear lockers is one of those that comes down to personal opinion. luckily I have one in each end so I can still drive up really steep hills forwards or backwards, depending on which diff is blown. We are doing a trip/blokes weekend to Mt Walker over Easter, (can you still call it Easter??), so will try to compare and video a few different scenarios using one locker at a time to see what works best.(for me!)

[Didge]

Inonce saw a videobwhere the 4wd action mob ( yes I know they're a bunch of yahoos) dd a test on all the possible locker options and the result was 2 are better than 1 but the front only took them further than the rear only- rather puzzling: that said, mine is in the rear :)

[Didge]

I meant I once saw a video....

[jackz]

Inonce saw a videobwhere the 4wd action mob ( yes I know they're a bunch of yahoos) dd a test on all the possible locker options and the result was 2 are better than 1 but the front only took them further than the rear only- rather puzzling: that said, mine is in the rear :)
I did notice when I fitted the front only, the difference was huge, since fitting the rear, the difference was not really discernable.

[Didge]

interesting isn't it as I thought the rear would make the most difference, given the weight shift towards the rear when pointing uphill.

[Tombie]

4wd action test was with LSD equipped vehicles iirc.

Having had front and rear lockers the rear gives far more benefit most of the time.

Only very few occasions where scrambling may be better with a front locker, and then without the rear pushing you're more likely to tear the front end apart.

[Tikka7mm08]

Got stuck bottom of gully yesterday due to morning dew on grass. Could've waited a few hours for sun to burn it off but instead flicked on the rear locker and quietly climbed out. Very happy with the locker so far.

[Tikka7mm08]

Update...went for a drive up flooded river banks yesterday with mate in Disco tdi. Got to a cut out bank that you could only approach at a sharp angle. The TDI had a few goes and then with momentum bounced over. The Puma 90 did a lot worse due to shorter wheel length and wasn't going to make it over (may be it would of with a lot of momentum). However, compressor on and locker engaged and the 90 just idled up and over. I have just received the front locker so will report on this too. Quietly impressed with stock road tyres too as went everywhere the Disco did in mud with Cooper muds on.

[dullbird]

They are mud and snow tyres so a little better than road. I consider grabbers to be a bit more like a less aggressive AT

But still they are reasonably good when others are on a more purpose fit tyre :)

[jakeslouw]

The issue is the blatent copying of an existing product. In the case of the locker, right down to copying ARB's packaging and then including a copy of the ARB instructions, with their logo on, which are copyrighted.
If it was just the choice of buying a cheaper locker then it's a different issue.

When ARB post the videos of their tests of the Chinese lockers on YouTube everyone claims it was a 'set up'.
ARB can't win.......


Colin

So should Britpart close up shop?

What about Volkspares?

Britpart copies OEM spares items and sells them, so does Volkspares. Often they even use the same OEM part number.

[Didge]

Seems like everyone,I mean most, are happy to buy chinese products (even if they breaking patent laws) that put someone else out of work but wouldn't be happy if the same thing happened to them.
I can't understand how successive governments have continually failed us in maintaining manufacturing in Australia. We are all now on an international playing field with China and they winning the game simply through manufacturing. I know about all the facets of competition, wages, tariffs, exchange rates, etc, etc but it needs to be China vs the rest of the world if we are to survive. sorry sort of got off the topic :(

[Tikka7mm08]

Diff-locks still going great. Got to creat of steep slippery hill and started spinning...locks engaged and away I went saving an awkward decent. I noticed the compressor stay on for quite a bit, would stop then start again with locks engaged. Is this normal? Wondering if I had a leak...

[SSmith]

Diff-locks still going great. Got to creat of steep slippery hill and started spinning...locks engaged and away I went saving an awkward decent. I noticed the compressor stay on for quite a bit, would stop then start again with locks engaged. Is this normal? Wondering if I had a leak...

Ideally it should not need to run once lockers are activated, but this is not very practical - yes you have a leak.

Id just look at how frequently the compressor runs and for how long, as to whether or not to do the seals.

Seals are not hard to do or expensive. Just getting at them takes a while.

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