Four Corners-Tonight-A must watch for Truckies.

[Ausfree]

For the truckies among us (particularly the long haul ones) an interesting program on how dangerous the industry is becoming. "Four Corners" tonight ABC 8.30pm Daylight Saving Time in the Eastern States.

This Trucking Life - Four Corners (http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2014/01/30/3934918.htm)

[Lotz-A-Landies]

You notice that, even though maintenance on this fleet was run down by the private equity firm owners, no one mentions that the design of the road had anything to do with it.

This location at the bottom of a long steep hill without any emergency stopping bay or gravel bed has been the scene of numerous truck accidents, so the RTA answer was to put a "Don Burke" round-about to ensure the trucks in the emergency tips over wrecking more havock and fatalities.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/1085.jpg
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-03/cootes-accused-of-cutting-corners-on-truck-maintenance/5234052

Without the shrubbery feature round-about the truck could have used the up-hill grade (where you can see it burning) to slow and stop the truck.

[shining]

I don't know the area.... Is the gradient signed "Steep Descent - Trucks and Buses must use low gear"?

[vnx205]

For the truckies among us

It's not just the truckies who need to watch the program.

Other road users who share the road with trucks should know what is going on.

In fact anyone with any interest in important issues should watch.

It will be interesting to see how broad a view the program takes of the issue. There isn't just one issue here that is contributing to the problem.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I don't know the area.... Is the gradient signed "Steep Descent - Trucks and Buses must use low gear"?Yes it is but the accident happened after the low gear area ended, by that time the driver had already lost control and was sounding his horn madly to warn motorists.

[UncleHo]

Well, if he had lost control before the end of LOW gear area then he was quite possibly not in low gear,and was possibly trying to make up time to stay within his schedule, possibly traffic earlier on his run had made him slip behind.

Yes,I know that piece of road well,both from driving a car, truck, and motorcycle,Yup! And it is a good test road on a bike,flat down prone on the tank and wick it :twisted:

cheers

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I wasn't there, but who's to say he didn't mis a gear at the top and was out of control burning out his brakes all the way down.

The fact is that had the round-about not been there, or it was on a different alignment, the tanker probably would not have been tipped on its side and we wouldn't be having this discussion. BTW it's not the first fatal at that intersection, nor the second, previous truck accidents have even taken out houses.

[Ausfree]

It's not just the truckies who need to watch the program.

Other road users who share the road with trucks should know what is going on.

In fact anyone with any interest in important issues should watch.

It will be interesting to see how broad a view the program takes of the issue. There isn't just one issue here that is contributing to the problem.Absolutely agree, it is a must watch program for all road users.

[shining]

Wow. Given the other photos and other traffic the toll could have been much worse.:eek:

[frantic]

No Cookies | thetelegraph.com.au (http://m.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/australian-trucking-association-appeals-for-government-to-make-foreign-drivers-eligible-for-457-visas-to-aid-shortage/story-fni0cx12-1226794470866)
Just a current push to make all road users a bit more worried. Imagine a 457 visa B-Double driver whacked on no doze and other special remedies who has poor English and has been awake 16+hours, rushing though the burbs to get to the local depot on time. ( 1hr drive to work then the New limit of 15.5hrs On the job)
Now he drives home, 1hr, 5hrs sleep then back to depot x how many days?

[UncleHo]

I can remember the days of "Pink Ladies in Black Tights" ;)

[MickMc]

I drive a race car transporter from SA, VIC, NSW to QLD. The stories you tell amongst other heavy vehicle drivers seem unrealistic until you show them the dash cam footage. I wouldn't drive without it recording these days.

[mikehzz]

Dad was a truckie and truckies used to be my driving role models. However, lately my opinion has dropped through the floor. Rude, aggressive "car" drivers who happen to be driving big trucks. Is the change brought on by stress? You can drive all through the UK and Europe and marvel at the patience and control of the truckies there. I don't mean to insult the many decent truckies here...and don't tell me it's all because of the idiot car drivers because most car drivers have always been idiots. :)

[tonic]

I drive a race car transporter from SA, VIC, NSW to QLD. The stories you tell amongst other heavy vehicle drivers seem unrealistic until you show them the dash cam footage. I wouldn't drive without it recording these days.


Yes, I drive a low loader very infrequently as I spend most of my time in a drilling rig, but I too am going to buy a camera. Even for a sometimes truckie you see enough and have to avoid enough to be concerned.

[V8Ian]

Today Tonight's moved to channel 2. Very much cherry picking facts. Plenty of inaccuracies.

[vnx205]

Can you elaborate?

[V8Ian]

Start with seventeen hour days in WA. No mention was made that seventeen hour cannot be done consecutively, no let's alarm the punters and lead them to believe that they are the norm performed every day.

I'll expand later in the week, I need some sleep now, ready for another fourteen hour day tomorrow.

[vnx205]

I didn't assume the 17 hours would be consecutive, so they didn't need to explain that to me.

I would have expected that at the very least there would at least be some meal breaks and toilet breaks during the 17 hours.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Start with seventeen hour days in WA. No mention was made that seventeen hour cannot be done consecutively, no let's alarm the punters and lead them to believe that they are the norm performed every day.

I'll expand later in the week, I need some sleep now, ready for another fourteen hour day tomorrow.But it is still 17 hours in a day, irrespective of the number of breaks in between. Every hour more driving is less hours for rest and sleeping.

Plenty of sleep research out there and no one can tell me that weeks or months with less than 7 hours sleep/day is not going to lead to long term fatigue.

However, what I got from the show was the correlation between lower rates (or not increasing rates) in an environment of increasing costs meaning that drivers and owner operators having to spend more time on the road than is healthy for the drivers and the roads.

[Blknight.aus]

But it is still 17 hours in a day, irrespective of the number of breaks in between. Every hour more driving is less hours for rest and sleeping.

Plenty of sleep research out there and no one can tell me that weeks or months with less than 7 hours sleep/day is not going to lead to long term fatigue.

However, what I got from the show was the correlation between lower rates (or not increasing rates) in an environment of increasing costs meaning that drivers and owner operators having to spend more time on the road than is healthy for the drivers and the roads.

yep but from old memory you can do that 17 hour day once, and once only in a fortnight.

and in reality it turns out to be effectively a 12 hour working day with 5 hours of mandated breaks in there and most guys will use the 17 hour day at the end of the run or for a particularly hard load/unload day because the 17 hour day (from memory) mandates a minimum of a 12 (and i suspect it might be 24) hours break away from the truck.

[gavinwibrow]

And the underlying message is the bosses and new gov't want to (and look like succeding) get rid of the one positive initiative of the last 20 years trying to give truckies a living wage and a life.

[87County]

....

However, what I got from the show was the correlation between lower rates (or not increasing rates) in an environment of increasing costs meaning that drivers and owner operators having to spend more time on the road than is healthy for the drivers and the roads.


Coles (Wesfarmers) reckon it's all for the good of the economy (or was it their economy?)

The other criminal thing is that it is other road users and drivers who pay the cost to lives (thinking of the driver who got 5 yrs gaol in WA and his victims), not the companies or their clients.

[mikehzz]

And the underlying message is the bosses and new gov't want to (and look like succeding) get rid of the one positive initiative of the last 20 years trying to give truckies a living wage and a life.

The bosses and the government* are very chummy at the moment (sort of like, what's the term?...a love in?)...the drivers have no friends. You do understand it's economic? Do NOT stand between a corporation and its money.

*Disclaimer: Please note my comments are not to be construed as political in nature. My comments are purely to point out what I believe are the goals and behaviours of big business in general from my own observations.

[Petetheprinta]

I know nothing about the trucking life whatsoever, nada zilch. I don't even know anyone who drives a truck. After watching the show my sympathies certainly lie with the drivers. What I don't understand is why the drivers don't get together and demand a living wage. From the show I understand there is a drivers owners assoc/union of sorts. Surely a few days of non delivery would have the likes of Coles and Woolworths on their knees. I realize it would be a time of imposition and hardship for the drivers but surely the end would justify the means. Is this too simplistic a view?

[THE BOOGER]

Unfortunately public support would soon change when the supermarkets run out of milk and bread in 1 or 2 days, if a blockade or strike went longer than 3 days truckies would be sacrificed by the public and vilified by the media. Can imagine today tonight with Chantell from south west Sydney 4 kids under 5 and no baby food or milk:(

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I know nothing about the trucking life whatsoever, nada zilch. I don't even know anyone who drives a truck. After watching the show my sympathies certainly lie with the drivers. What I don't understand is why the drivers don't get together and demand a living wage. From the show I understand there is a drivers owners assoc/union of sorts. Surely a few days of non delivery would have the likes of Coles and Woolworths on their knees. I realize it would be a time of imposition and hardship for the drivers but surely the end would justify the means. Is this too simplistic a view?We once had a blockade of the Hume Highway into Sydney but that was decades ago and the road has even moved from the Razorback.

One of the big issues is that a huge proportion of the industry is owner operators or owner sub contractors who provide themselves and their trucks to a transport company. These people have hugh finance payments on their trucks that are frequently worth more than a house, the only way they can keep up the payments and feed their family is to keep the wheels turning. Not delivering for a few days could easily be the loss of their truck and means of earning a living.

Added to this is the policy that many transport companies require their sub-contractors to have new trucks, replacing them every few years.

Many transport companies know that the rates they pay are unsustainable in the long term, but they also know that as one owner operator goes bankrupt there are more at the door wanting to get into the industry. These new ones will also eventually go bankrupt as well.

[Redback]

If they keep fining the drivers and not the transport companys(who are as much to blame) nothing will change, except more drivers will go broke and more accidents will happen due to fatigue, because drivers will need to drive for longer to pay the fines and feed their family and keep the truck on the road.

Baz.

[gavinwibrow]

We once had a blockade of the Hume Highway into Sydney but that was decades ago and the road has even moved from the Razorback.

One of the big issues is that a huge proportion of the industry is owner operators or owner sub contractors who provide themselves and their trucks to a transport company. These people have hugh finance payments on their trucks that are frequently worth more than a house, the only way they can keep up the payments and feed their family is to keep the wheels turning. Not delivering for a few days could easily be the loss of their truck and means of earning a living.

Added to this is the policy that many transport companies require their sub-contractors to have new trucks, replacing them every few years.

Many transport companies know that the rates they pay are unsustainable in the long term, but they also know that as one owner operator goes bankrupt there are more at the door wanting to get into the industry. These new ones will also eventually go bankrupt as well.
Quite right. It's called destructive competition.
I've been out of the transport loop for a while now, but truckies had their own worst enemies within their ranks. Anyone could buy a truck and undercut to get a contract, thinking they'd load up the price next timearound. Only trouble was a new bod would do exactly the same to them ad infinitum.

[Fatso]

IMHO Road transport should come under the control of the Dept Of Transport , the same as Rail, Airlines and Marine and special licences and medicals be made for Transport Drivers . This will then put the Req for Safety & Compliance where it belongs on the transport companies .

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Truck drivers currently have the requirement of medicals. Upon upgrading their licence from one class to another a medical clearance is required, also at licence renewal there is a medical questionnaire the answers to which may require a medical clearance.

GPs are under a mandate to notify the registration authorities if they diagnose certain conditions in a truck driver. Medicated type II diabetes, epilepsy and sleep apnoea are some of the conditions that will cancel a truck drivers licence.

[Bigbjorn]

Quite right. It's called destructive competition.
I've been out of the transport loop for a while now, but truckies had their own worst enemies within their ranks. Anyone could buy a truck and undercut to get a contract, thinking they'd load up the price next timearound. Only trouble was a new bod would do exactly the same to them ad infinitum.

The money lenders have a lot to answer for in this regard. Lending money to clients to lease a truck who never had a hope of making the payments long term. The lender had a security deposit, a mortgage over the suckers house, would get twelve months or more of monthly payments until competition, rising prices, maintenance started to bite, then could repossess and sell the vehicle, foreclose on the mortgage and seize the deposit. They made their money and the client and family are in the caravan park on the dole.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

...This location at the bottom of a long steep hill without any emergency stopping bay or gravel bed has been the scene of numerous truck accidents, so the RTA answer was to put a "Don Burke" round-about to ensure the trucks in the emergency tips over wrecking more havock and fatalities.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/1085.jpg
Fuel tanker company Cootes, involved in fatal Mona Vale accident, accused of cutting corners on maintenance - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-03/cootes-accused-of-cutting-corners-on-truck-maintenance/5234052)

Without the shrubbery feature round-about the truck could have used the up-hill grade (where you can see it burning) to slow and stop the truck.Just thought I'd post up a pic from the opposite end of the intersection showing the down grade approaching the Don Burke round-about.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/1086.jpg
Source: Tanker crash: trucking company accused of using old, defective vehicles | World news | theguardian.com (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/04/tanker-crash-trucking-company-accused-of-using-old-defective-vehicles)

[Ausfree]

What gets up my goat is the fact the Government is going on and on about road safety, "Speed Kills" and "Have a Break every 2 Hours", "Don't Drink and Drive" and all the rest of their nice sounding retoric.
But when it comes to a major menace on our roads such as an overtide, stressed and probably high on "Speed" Truckie, they don't seem to want to do anything to help here. The blame, if something goes wrong always ends up with the driver. The whole industry needs a drastic overhaul and realisitic delivery schedules made law. The average age of drivers is getting older as younger people do not want to work incredibly long hours for little remuneration.

Would I be a long distance truckie...............you have to be joking!!:censored:

[shining]

What I don't understand is why the drivers don't get together and demand a living wage.

Apologies for over simplifying...Because basic contract business (the business model for long haul trucking)for works on the principle of the cheapest price gets the business. So companies and owner drivers are all in a race to the bottom. This leads to pressure, short cuts cut-throat tactics.
It would take a lot of regulation and an award and a strong union. Invest in rail is my solution then trucks can do the last leg and every one would be in their own beds at night. (again apologies for an over simplified solution)

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Invest in rail is significantly over-simplified. Who is going to invest in rail inrfastructure? The Government??? Not likely at least in the forseeable future however short sighted that is.

As it is a lot of the transport infrustructure, particularly the fleet is paid for by a lot of small individuals buying and operating their own trucks.

[V8Ian]

I didn't assume the 17 hours would be consecutive, so they didn't need to explain that to me.

I would have expected that at the very least there would at least be some meal breaks and toilet breaks during the 17 hours.
Two days of seventeen hours accumulated cannot be done consecutively. A maximum of eighty-four hours a week is permitted with at least one break of twenty four hours.

[Ean Austral]

Two days of seventeen hours accumulated cannot be done consecutively. A maximum of eighty-four hours a week is permitted with at least one break of twenty four hours.


That 24hrs is completely out of the truck , is that correct Ian ?



Cheers Ean

[V8Ian]

That 24hrs is completely out of the truck , is that correct Ian ?



Cheers Ean
Ean I think you can sleep in the truck but no work related activities (i.e. washing, greasing, admin or invoicing etc. or making/receiving work related phone calls)
can be performed.

[V8Ian]

Rail to replace road! :Rolling: How many of you would have Ean's prawns for Christmas if they were delivered by rail? Better order them in March.
.

[Ean Austral]

What gets up my goat is the fact the Government is going on and on about road safety, "Speed Kills" and "Have a Break every 2 Hours", "Don't Drink and Drive" and all the rest of their nice sounding retoric.
But when it comes to a major menace on our roads such as an overtide, stressed and probably high on "Speed" Truckie, they don't seem to want to do anything to help here. The blame, if something goes wrong always ends up with the driver. The whole industry needs a drastic overhaul and realisitic delivery schedules made law. The average age of drivers is getting older as younger people do not want to work incredibly long hours for little remuneration.

Would I be a long distance truckie...............you have to be joking!!:censored:




Yep and then Mr & Mrs Joe public will complain even louder because something they ordered today didn't arrive yesterday, same thing they do now. I have been guilty of doing the same and it wasn't until I drove a road train myself I realised whats involved, and how much harder it is to drive a truck 3000kms compared to a car.


Cheers Ean

[V8Ian]

You have to love the hypocracy of governments who extol the danger of long hours performed by truck drivers, who they fine at $1,000 a hit, yet force the same or more hours on police, firemen, ambos, nurses and doctors. :mad:

[Ean Austral]

You have to love the hypocracy of governments who extol the danger of long hours performed by truck drivers, who they fine at $1,000 a hit, yet force the same or more hours on police, firemen, ambos, nurses and doctors. :mad:




Well said Ian,


Im just glad the fishing industry doesn't operate on land, cause when it comes to hours awake per day, day after day , week after week, people would die of shock if they knew the hours we worked, or were awake for.


Cheers Ean

[V8Ian]

On that show last night they carried on about only sleeping five hours a day. :o I only sleep five hours in twenty four whether I'm working or not. :confused:

[shining]

Rail to replace road! :Rolling: How many of you would have Ean's prawns for Christmas if they were delivered by rail? Better order them in March.
.

Yep that's the main problem. The inability to plan ahead and the need for instant gratification. AND the beanies that demand minimum stock holdings to maximise profits so that "just in time" delivery coupled with cut-throat competition means that a late delivery equals no stock on the shelves.

[shining]

On that show last night they carried on about only sleeping five hours a day. :o I only sleep five hours in twenty four whether I'm working or not. :confused:

I think the main problem is what they are doing for the other 19.;)

[Sitec]

'Without trucks Australia stops'.... I'd say its getting very close then. The cost of new trucks have gone up and are in the hundreds of thousands per prime mover, the insurance is massive, the freight companies set deadlines that can only just be reached if said truckie has no dramas along the way... and they always seem to forget about the loading and unloading times.... As for fuel costs.... Well, we won't even go there.
I've watched as a load of tractors gets delivered here in SA having come from Melbourne. That same avo, that same driver collects his back load and then using a second log book sets of back to Melbourne... He has to to pay for that truck!
The costs to get bulk objects/vehicles etc from state to state seem huge... That is until you actually sit down and take into account the costs involved.
As for drivers doing more hours than they should, that will never change as long as the log book system here is still in place.. For years, Europe has run a tacograph system (originally with a circular carbon disk behind the speedo) and now with a chip type card.. Now I know there are those saying "It'll never work in Oz, the distances are too great"... Well, there's part of the prob to start. No one should have to drive for more than 9.5 hours in a day with allotted rest breaks in between. No one. This system works. A drivers taco card is like a piece of gold to him in the UK. The taco is linked to the ECU, and if the operator goes over time, he's warned several times.... If he keeps going, the truck stops. If he gets caught with someone else's card..... Game over! Not worth the risk.
These are just my thoughts.. I used to haul containers the length and breadth of the UK.. Small distances by comparison but still full days. Deadlines were set and achievable. I'd love to do a stint on interstate work, or run the ore road trains in the Pilbara, but the way its run at the moment..... I'll take a rain check ta!

[rangieman]

Unfortunately public support would soon change when the supermarkets run out of milk and bread in 1 or 2 days, if a blockade or strike went longer than 3 days truckies would be sacrificed by the public and vilified by the media. Can imagine today tonight with Chantell from south west Sydney 4 kids under 5 and no baby food or milk:(

Dead right ;)
In the 70,s Truckies tried blockades all it did was damage their reputation:twisted:
Plus unfortunately some owner drivers were their own worst enemy that would refuse to stop at the blockades for fear of losing a contract and earnings.
Ive seen something similar in the eightys when i was doing interstate on sesame street (Hume)

Drivers were whinging of low rates police harassment fines and so on the same old it has been going on for years
But when one driver said he was going to blockade a bunch of owner drivers said they would ram him out of the way.

What hope have they got if no one sticks together they are behind the eightball doomed from the start .
= Big buisness , Police and goverment are laughing at the silly buggers:cool:
Its a age old whinge

[V8Ian]

Rail lacks the speed and flexibility of road, that will never change. Rail shines moving bulk commodities such as coal, ores and grains.

[Sitec]

Rail lacks the speed and flexibility of road, that will never change. Rail shines moving bulk commodities such as coal, ores and grains.

It does at the moment, for sure.... But if it was organised in conjunction with truckies at major intersections and cities, there could be daily trains to and from each city, with the trucks doing the state work all over each state. Delivery times would be similar, and a much larger tonnage could be shifted using less man power, freeing up lots of manpower to run a local network of delivery routes.. Truckie gets to stay local to home and family, and sleep at night! :)

[V8Ian]

'Without trucks Australia stops'.... I'd say its getting very close then. The cost of new trucks have gone up and are in the hundreds of thousands per prime mover, the insurance is massive, the freight companies set deadlines that can only just be reached if said truckie has no dramas along the way... and they always seem to forget about the loading and unloading times.... As for fuel costs.... Well, we won't even go there.
I've watched as a load of tractors gets delivered here in SA having come from Melbourne. That same avo, that same driver collects his back load and then using a second log book sets of back to Melbourne... He has to to pay for that truck!
The costs to get bulk objects/vehicles etc from state to state seem huge... That is until you actually sit down and take into account the costs involved.
As for drivers doing more hours than they should, that will never change as long as the log book system here is still in place.. For years, Europe has run a tacograph system (originally with a circular carbon disk behind the speedo) and now with a chip type card.. Now I know there are those saying "It'll never work in Oz, the distances are too great"... Well, there's part of the prob to start. No one should have to drive for more than 9.5 hours in a day with allotted rest breaks in between. No one. This system works. A drivers taco card is like a piece of gold to him in the UK. The taco is linked to the ECU, and if the operator goes over time, he's warned several times.... If he keeps going, the truck stops. If he gets caught with someone else's card..... Game over! Not worth the risk.
These are just my thoughts.. I used to haul containers the length and breadth of the UK.. Small distances by comparison but still full days. Deadlines were set and achievable. I'd love to do a stint on interstate work, or run the ore road trains in the Pilbara, but the way its run at the moment..... I'll take a rain check ta!
Tachos will not work in this country because back in the early '70s a medium sized fleet fitted them as a management tool. One of the drivers was stitched up for speeding and produced the card and a tacho expert as a defense. The judge found in favour of the prosecution (surprise, surprise) stating that tachos weren't reliable. A president has been set, prosecution cannot rely on an unreliable device.

[V8Ian]

Dead right ;)
In the 70,s Truckies tried blockades all it did was damage their reputation:twisted:
Plus unfortunately some owner drivers were their own worst enemy that would refuse to stop at the blockades for fear of losing a contract and earnings. And truck, house and family.
Ive seen something similar in the eightys when i was doing interstate on sesame street (Hume)

Drivers were whinging of low rates police harassment fines and so on the same old it has been going on for years
But when one driver said he was going to blockade a bunch of owner drivers said they would ram him out of the way.

What hope have they got if no one sticks together they are behind the eightball doomed from the start .
= Big buisness , Police and goverment are laughing at the silly buggers:cool:
Its a age old whingeThe majors are paying 10% (or less) of their charges, to the subbie who does all the work and bears all the costs. :mad:

[shining]

Dubbo, Blayney and Parkes have intermodal terminals and that is within a two hour range. Mixing modes makes sense.

And how come containers come from the other side of the world on a ship that takes weeks and then has to clear customs BUT THEN we have one night to get it from from Botany to Brisbane?

[Ean Austral]

Tachos will not work in this country because back in the early '70s a medium sized fleet fitted them as a management tool. One of the drivers was stitched up for speeding and produced the card and a tacho expert as a defense. The judge found in favour of the prosecution (surprise, surprise) stating that tachos weren't reliable. A president has been set, prosecution cannot rely on an unreliable device.


What happens in a 2 up situation with that set up?


The trawlers are tracked via satalite and are speed and course logged, maybe a system like that may work, but how defensable it would be im not sure, and wether it would work in the truck industry im not sure either.


Cheers Ean

[Sitec]

Tachos will not work in this country because back in the early '70s a medium sized fleet fitted them as a management tool. One of the drivers was stitched up for speeding and produced the card and a tacho expert as a defense. The judge found in favour of the prosecution (surprise, surprise) stating that tachos weren't reliable. A president has been set, prosecution cannot rely on an unreliable device.

Interesting, its the other way over there... They're too damn accurate, recording gear changes, fuel usage etc. Haulage companies are able to tell which drivers are fuel/throttle efficient, mechanically sympathetic to the rig.... Cops are also able to pull a card and accurately read it and tell how long the driver has been driving, where, and what route was used for any given vehicle.. Either way, something has to happen to help the truckie. Cheers. :)

[UncleHo]

A several decades ago most of the Eastern State Govts. thought it economical to shut down country rail lines as they were better serviced by Trucks,but they did not upgrade the roads and highways to cater for these trucks, I was once offered a drivers job with a now national company to drive Stanthorpe - Sydney Markets via New England H'way bogie rigid but had to do it in 12 hours or under,3 times over that time you gone,and that was in the mid 60's in the days of Vacc over Hydraulic :eek: the older drivers on here will know what the New England was like then,and the Pacific was even slower then single up and down.

[V8Ian]

It does at the moment, for sure.... But if it was organised in conjunction with truckies at major intersections and cities, there could be daily trains to and from each city, with the trucks doing the state work all over each state. Delivery times would be similar, and a much larger tonnage could be shifted using less man power, freeing up lots of manpower to run a local network of delivery routes.. Truckie gets to stay local to home and family, and sleep at night! :)

Won't be happening in the lifetime of any current AULROian, there simply is not the volume freight to make it viable except for the Melbourne/Sydney corridor. So many people have no idea of the distance between villages and hamlets in this country.

[V8Ian]

Interesting, its the other way over there... They're too damn accurate, recording gear changes, fuel usage etc. Haulage companies are able to tell which drivers are fuel/throttle efficient, mechanically sympathetic to the rig.... Cops are also able to pull a card and accurately read it and tell how long the driver has been driving, where, and what route was used for any given vehicle.. Either way, something has to happen to help the truckie. Cheers. :)

All that can now be done, and is, with GPS. It is a condition of HML and most PBS operations.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Rail to replace road! :Rolling: How many of you would have Ean's prawns for Christmas if they were delivered by rail? Better order them in March.
.:BigCry: Ean doesn't deliver to Sydney either by road or rail!

The trawlers are tracked via satalite and are speed and course logged, maybe a system like that may work, but how defensable it would be im not sure, and wether it would work in the truck industry im not sure either.


Cheers EanSome transport companies in Oz are already tracking their trucks. one owner in particular HHA has the system send him a message if the truck goes over 95KPH and then he rings the driver to find out what's happening.

One of our AULRO members was taking a security load across the continent, he arrived at the destination city ahead of schedule and having stopped for 5 minutes, got a phone call asking why he was stopped short of the delivery address and to remind him that at least one driver had to remain in the truck overnight. If it works like that for load monitoring, there is no reason that it cant be used for fatigue enforcement.

[Bigbjorn]

In the USA as of 1/1/14, all log books are now electronic, no paper. A driver for the huge fleet, York, told me they have been electronic for years. He also said that in states where the law enforcement was wired up for it, police etc. vehicles can read the drivers logbook by driving alongside. This will be the norm. There will be receivers along the highways accepting data from passing trucks and notifying law enforcement of an "over time" vehicle.

[V8Ian]

What happens in a 2 up situation with that set up?


The trawlers are tracked via satalite and are speed and course logged, maybe a system like that may work, but how defensable it would be im not sure, and wether it would work in the truck industry im not sure either.


Cheers Ean
It's being used already Ean. I was talking to a fellow who was intercepted at Dinmore pads (Ipswich) for dozens excessive speeding (112 kph) on a single trip from Dalby. He was running bobtail, therefore not required to be limited 90kph, to have the computer updated following a diff ratio change.

One of the fishermen I used to fuel in Cairns snagged and abandoned his nets at sea. He had to inform Canberra when he went back to retrieve his gear or he would have lost a fishing night. He was a top bloke and a battler who couldn't afford a deckie, he always got more fuel than he paid for and I always had fish for dinner. ;)

[V8Ian]

:BigCry: Ean doesn't deliver to Sydney either by road or rail!

Some transport in Oz are already tracking their trucks. one owner in particular HHA has the system send him a message if the truck goes over 95KPH and then he rings the driver to find out what's happening.

One of our AULRO members was taking a security load across the continent, he arrived at the destination city ahead of schedule and having stopped for 5 minutes, got a phone call asking why he was stopped short of the delivery address and to remind him that at least one driver had to remain in the truck overnight. If it works like that for load monitoring, there is no reason that it cant be used for fatigue enforcement.

That's because he doesn't like you Dianna. :p:p:p

[Bigbjorn]

Years ago, Finemores could tell precisely where a truck was. They were the first I knew of to be able to do this. TT&S used telemetry to change fuel settings to give more or less power according to where the truck was on its run.

[Ean Austral]

It's being used already Ean. I was talking to a fellow who was intercepted at Dinmore pads (Ipswich) for dozens excessive speeding (112 kph) on a single trip from Dalby. He was running bobtail, therefore not required to be limited 90kph, to have the computer updated following a diff ratio change.

One of the fishermen I used to fuel in Cairns snagged and abandoned his nets at sea. He had to inform Canberra when he went back to retrieve his gear or he would have lost a fishing night. He was a top bloke and a battler who couldn't afford a deckie, he always got more fuel than he paid for and I always had fish for dinner. ;)


Many years ago prior to our season start we had to steam thru corridors that were designed so the fleet stayed off the fishing grounds until opening day, on our way we got smashed by a tropical low that formed as we were on our way, after several hours I altered course as it was starting to get dangerous, when I was about 1 mile out off the corridor the phone rang and I think the guy on the end of the phone felt sorry for us after the reasons I gave him and the noise of everything banging and crashing.


Our fishery was basically run, if you crossed the lines you were guilty and had to prove you were innocent. Lucky for me he was an understanding bloke.


Cheers Ean

[V8Ian]

Many years ago prior to our season start we had to steam thru corridors that were designed so the fleet stayed off the fishing grounds until opening day, on our way we got smashed by a tropical low that formed as we were on our way, after several hours I altered course as it was starting to get dangerous, when I was about 1 mile out off the corridor the phone rang and I think the guy on the end of the phone felt sorry for us after the reasons I gave him and the noise of everything banging and crashing.


Our fishery was basically run, if you crossed the lines you were guilty and had to prove you were innocent. Lucky for me he was an understanding bloke.


Cheers EanFishing, farming and freighting; all bloody hard work, under-appreciated and essential services.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

That's because he doesn't like you Dianna. :p:p:pI gather he's not the only one! :( :( :(

[V8Ian]

I gather he's not the only one! :( :( :(

We duz mate the rest don't matter. :D

[LandyAndy]

Years ago, Finemores could tell precisely where a truck was. They were the first I knew of to be able to do this. TT&S used telemetry to change fuel settings to give more or less power according to where the truck was on its run.

Sounds like a load of poppycock to me.
I doubt it can be done today,nevermind years ago!!!!
Andrew

[Bigbjorn]

Sounds like a load of poppycock to me.
I doubt it can be done today,nevermind years ago!!!!
Andrew

Andrew, it is done much easier now with much smaller equipment. Electronic engine management systems can easily be managed remotely. Just needs a transmitter and a receiver wired in to send back the information and receive instructions.

Honda Formula 1 cars at one time had their engine management systems run by their Cray computer in Japan. This was later banned by the Formula 1 authorities.

Edit- Finemores were using radio direction finding equipment which technology was in use in WW2. As far as changing fuel settings, plenty of Aulrovers have or have had their EMS remapped. TT&S were doing it remotely not by plugging in.

[slug_burner]

The desire to be your own boss lures a lot of people into the trucking industry. The reality is that you end up working for the bank, the transport company, etc etc.

It is a hard life and I am glad I don't have to do it.

[frantic]

Andrew back 20+ years ago comet( TNT) had that radio positioning system in their small medium trucks to better manage the drivers. Today with modern GPS units the size of a wallet it would be easy to link those back to their HQ.
Unfortunately truckies need a centralized base wage/ contract rate like they do for shearers along with better and stricter policing of their maintenance. This would eliminate the jobs that pay under the cost of a basic wage and truck maintenance.
The better checking would still be required as has been shown even the profitable operators cut corners to make extra $$$$. There also needs to be better laws that charge company owners and managers who cut corners and put other road users at risk.

[weeds]

:BigCry: Ean doesn't deliver to Sydney either by road or rail!Some transport companies in Oz are already tracking their trucks. one owner in particular HHA has the system send him a message if the truck goes over 95KPH and then he rings the driver to find out what's happening.

One of our AULRO members was taking a security load across the continent, he arrived at the destination city ahead of schedule and having stopped for 5 minutes, got a phone call asking why he was stopped short of the delivery address and to remind him that at least one driver had to remain in the truck overnight. If it works like that for load monitoring, there is no reason that it cant be used for fatigue enforcement.

A good percentage of the bigger companies have this system.....Fox I believe were the first....we might even write it into the contract. the haulage company we use get notified when the truck exceeds the speed limit for more than six seconds....each truck is also fitted with two cameras, one facing forward and the other towards the drivers controls


Years ago, Finemores could tell precisely where a truck was. They were the first I knew of to be able to do this. TT&S used telemetry to change fuel settings to give more or less power according to where the truck was on its run.

I believe Lindsey Fox was firs to roll this out to a fleet of trucks.........

[vnx205]

I noticed that the biggest complaint of a group of drivers who were interviewed was that there are too many regulations. It doesn't seem to have occurred to them that if there were some appropriate regulations that their employers couldn't dodge, that they would be a lot better off.

Remember years ago, around the time of the truck blockades that John Laws was perpetuating the notion of truck drivers being independent, free spirits and some sort of demi-gods. The rest of us usually understand that we have to accept some regulation of our lives for the benefit of society and often for our own good. Truck drivers might have to come to the same realisation.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

But some of the regulations are plain silly.

Yes fatigue management is important, but having to pull the truck over because the times up when your 15 minutes or even half an hour from the final depot is just wrong. Human fatigue is multifactorial, it doesn't happen at twelve hours and one minute, or 13 hours and fifty nine minutes, being able to sleep in a real bed at home away from the constant traffic noise is far more restful and better for relieving fatigue.

Surely this can be taken into account, so long as the overall/weekly hours are maintained.

[vnx205]

I agree that some of the regulations seem silly.

Perhaps the trucking industry has to accept some of the blame for that.

If it had not been for the way so many of them tried to dodge the regulations and if it weren't for some of the ridiculous and dangerous things some of them have done in the past, it might not have been necessary to have such draconian regulations.

If the industry had shown a bit more common sense in the past, they might now only need sensible regulations. If they could be trusted to follow more flexible regulations, then that might be what they would have offered to them.

[Bigbjorn]

A good percentage of the bigger companies have this system.....Fox I believe were the first....we might even write it into the contract. the haulage company we use get notified when the truck exceeds the speed limit for more than six seconds....each truck is also fitted with two cameras, one facing forward and the other towards the drivers controls



I believe Lindsey Fox was firs to roll this out to a fleet of trucks.........

Finemores were using RDF more than 30 years ago. It was primitive compared to GP systems and used compass bearings from base stations at various of their depots to triangulate on the transmitter in the truck. The bearings had to be laid off by hand on a large map. The idea was to ascertain roughly where the truck was and was it moving or stationary. The need of course was to determine if the driver was stopped at a drinking hole or elsewhere for a spot of romance. Hourly (or less in suspicious cases) bearings could be taken to determine if the vehicle was moving. They may have only used this to keep the drivers on their toes and aware they were being watched.

[Ean Austral]

That's because he doesn't like you Dianna. :p:p:p

Sorry Dianna, I completely missed this one...Dont listen to Ian, hes just annoyed with me cause he spells his name wrong.:p:wasntme:


Cheers Ean

[disco gazza]

Toll have GPS tracking of all there vehicles plus another electronic tracking system in there trucks.
If you go over 100 kph,a light comes on,if over 102 kph a buzzer sounds(and its loud),if you go over 104 kph you loose your job.
We were told this at a meeting late last year ( we were one of the last in the Toll group).


cheers

[Lotz-A-Landies]

That's because he doesn't like you Dianna. :p:p:p
Sorry Dianna, I completely missed this one...Dont listen to Ian, hes just annoyed with me cause he spells his name wrong.:p:wasntme:

Cheers Ean
But we still don't get Ean Austral prawns into Sydney! :BigCry:

C Ya
Diana :)

[tonic]

But some of the regulations are plain silly.

Yes fatigue management is important, but having to pull the truck over because the times up when your 15 minutes or even half an hour from the final depot is just wrong. Human fatigue is multifactorial, it doesn't happen at twelve hours and one minute, or 13 hours and fifty nine minutes, being able to sleep in a real bed at home away from the constant traffic noise is far more restful and better for relieving fatigue.

Surely this can be taken into account, so long as the overall/weekly hours are maintained.


Most professional drivers are pretty good with their times and know the roads and how long from a-b etc. Where you come unstuck is a hold up for road works or some other thing.


If unexpected road works on a long section of road starts without warning you can get trapped. This can put you 15 minutes form your planned meal, shower and sleep area.

[shining]

If unexpected road works on a long section of road starts without warning you can get trapped. This can put you 15 minutes form your planned meal, shower and sleep area.

Livetraffic.com will give you accidents and RMS roadworks in NSW. I don't think it advises on council road works. Not sure about what is available in other states.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Livetraffic.com will give you accidents and RMS roadworks in NSW. I don't think it advises on council road works. Not sure about what is available in other states.AFAIK that is operated via 131-700 Traffic Conditions centre, pretty useless out of the CBD. e.g. Travelling south on the Hume, they had on the overhead traffic information signs "Hume Highway flooded Holbrook" "Take alternative route", so we turned into the Sturt Highway into Wagga Wagga only to drive through several kilometers of floodwaters before Forrest Hill.

When we arrived in Wagga the Sturt Hwy was closed West of Wagga and the Olympic Hwy closed a Uranquinty so we were stuck for most of the day. When we rang 131-700 they had less information than we had but they did tell us the Hume was open again. Not that we could get there.

[shining]

AFAIK that is operated via 131-700 Traffic Conditions centre, pretty useless out of the CBD. e.g. Travelling south on the Hume, they had on the overhead traffic information signs "Hume Highway flooded Holbrook" "Take alternative route", so we turned into the Sturt Highway into Wagga Wagga only to drive through several kilometers of floodwaters before Forrest Hill.

When we arrived in Wagga the Sturt Hwy was closed West of Wagga and the Olympic Hwy closed a Uranquinty so we were stuck for most of the day. When we rang 131-700 they had less information than we had but they did tell us the Hume was open again. Not that we could get there.

It can be hard to stay ahead of the game during flooding. It does seem to have planned roadworks on major roads and any incident emergency services are attending. At least it is something.

[zulu Delta 534]

Another sarcastic rave from an old bloke.
I am glad I no longer drive professionally, as when I did I had to comply with rules set out by the Police, Various Motor Transport bodies (all with different ideas state to state) log books, tachographs, twice yearly vehicular inspections, excessive Insurance and registration bills, was always under inspection by any member of the public who might take a dislike to the odd puff of diesel exhaust smoke, not permitted to use half my braking ability (Jake brake) when in a built up area (the time when I needed all I could get) and was constantly threatened with 'three strikes and I was out', double fines on public holidays, weighbridge and log book random checks and often even put over the shaker on the side of the road (interesting experience with a load of tourists on board)......But now, all that has changed, and I have become an honest to God "member of the protected public" a retiree, and now I can do whatever I feel like, when I feel like it and for as long as I feel like.
I can get up at 6.00am, work around the house all day, play with my Series vehicle and service my own car in the afternoon, babysit the grandkids that night then at around midnight, hop in the car, hook up a monstrous van and tootle off down the highway and drive as long as I like.
Life is great! No more compulsory annual medicals, no more having to pay for accreditation on top of licencing, and the best part is I can still drive the same size vehicles if I wish. Simply call it a motor home rather than a tourist coach..
It sure is a great system, hypocritical perhaps, but nevertheless Great. Depends on how you look at it I suppose.
Regards
Glen

[LandyAndy]

Andrew, it is done much easier now with much smaller equipment. Electronic engine management systems can easily be managed remotely. Just needs a transmitter and a receiver wired in to send back the information and receive instructions.

Honda Formula 1 cars at one time had their engine management systems run by their Cray computer in Japan. This was later banned by the Formula 1 authorities.

Edit- Finemores were using radio direction finding equipment which technology was in use in WW2. As far as changing fuel settings, plenty of Aulrovers have or have had their EMS remapped. TT&S were doing it remotely not by plugging in.

Ive remapped several ecus.It requires removing the exsisting mapping and then installing the new mapping.It cannot be done with the vehicle running,never mind driven.Years ago,poppycock:p:p:p:p:p,I still say they wouldnt be doing it now.Anyhow giving them more horespower wont help with the mandatory 105kph speed limiting,or are they changing that on the run too?????
Andrew

[LandyAndy]

Andrew back 20+ years ago comet( TNT) had that radio positioning system in their small medium trucks to better manage the drivers. Today with modern GPS units the size of a wallet it would be easy to link those back to their HQ.
Unfortunately truckies need a centralized base wage/ contract rate like they do for shearers along with better and stricter policing of their maintenance. This would eliminate the jobs that pay under the cost of a basic wage and truck maintenance.
The better checking would still be required as has been shown even the profitable operators cut corners to make extra $$$$. There also needs to be better laws that charge company owners and managers who cut corners and put other road users at risk.

One of our workers was a Linfox steerer.Their trucks had "co-pilot" wich was basically a black box recording how the driver drives the truck plus GPS tracking so speeds,acceleration braking were all recorded.It was used to manage truck destroying cowboys.
My comments were in regargds to heglem saying thay can up or down the performance of the truck remotely,dreaming.
Andrew

[shining]

Ive remapped several ecus.It requires removing the exsisting mapping and then installing the new mapping.It cannot be done with the vehicle running,never mind driven.Years ago,poppycock:p:p:p:p:p,I still say they wouldnt be doing it now.Anyhow giving them more horespower wont help with the mandatory 105kph speed limiting,or are they changing that on the run too?????
Andrew

Agreed but I understood that prime-movers in large companies are remapped for more or less power from time to time depending upon the set-up (eg roadtrain or semi)

[V8Ian]

You're wrong this time Andy, Brian's on the money.

[LandyAndy]

Agreed but I understood that prime-movers in large companies are remapped for more or less power from time to time depending upon the set-up (eg roadtrain or semi)

As we have a major truck route running thru our area we hear the steering wheel attendants all the time on the 40ch.
MANY are heard bitching about their modern trucks de-rating the horespower to protect itself.Onday an owner driver interupted 2 company drivers on the 40ch he was following,it turned out he had a very similar specced truck.Told them all they need to do was drop 10kmh earlier and not punish the trucks on the hills and they wont derate and they will maintain that 10kmh difference over the hills and not hold everyone up like you 2 are now you are de-rated .The 2 kiwi company drivers suddenly went quiet,GOLD.

Andrew

[MBZ460]

I wonder if people have a problem with "Jake braking" in city suburbs is because so many truckies want the loudest exhaust they can get. Much like many bogans/ricers in cars and bikers on their twins. Maximum "**** you" effect.

Does not have much to do with better peformance. A turbo diesel does not need to be loud to perform well.

[LandyAndy]

You're wrong this time Andy, Brian's on the money.

Post up proof,I do not belive it was possible YEARS AGO as he posted,never mind today.
You crunch gears,what would you have to say if you had just started pulling 3 trailers past 2 old timers towing caravans in convoy on a good clear stretch and some office johnyy suddenly decides to change the fueling on your truck because you are half an hour ahead of shedule and wants you to slow down(as per heglems post).

Years ago, Finemores could tell precisely where a truck was. They were the first I knew of to be able to do this. TT&S used telemetry to change fuel settings to give more or less power according to where the truck was on its run

Andrew

[LandyAndy]

I wonder if people have a problem with "Jake braking" in city suburbs is because so many truckies want the loudest exhaust they can get. Much like many bogans/ricers in cars and bikers on their twins. Maximum "**** you" effect.

Does not have much to do with better peformance. A turbo diesel does not need to be loud to perform well.

We have one,and stir him up on the 40ch all the time,it has no mufflers and he maxes out the jake brake.We ask him to get another one and it sometimes makes him miss a gear.Then he goes rite off on the 40ch,telling us we shouldnt build houses next to highways:D:D:D:D:D:D We is just enjoying a cold beer and stiring him.
Andrew

[MBZ460]

A reference I found, American:


The Jacobs company blames the loud noise you hear from passing trucks on the use of engine brakes in vehicles with poorly muffled or unmuffled exhaust systems (straight pipes, for example), exhaust systems that have been illegally modified or are poorly maintained, and/or truckers who simply enjoy making noise. Because of this, the Jacobs company feels that it's inaccurate, unfair, and maybe illegal to use their trademarked name in the generic sounding "NO JAKE BRAKES" signs, especially since some of their other jake brakes are quiet and noisy compression release engine brakes are made by other companies, too. These signs are often seen in residential areas adjacent to a highway. The federal government has required all vehicles manufactured since 1978 to meet noise requirements.

Another example of "professional drivers" ?

[LandyAndy]

The bloke we stir up travels thru town twice a day.His pipes have an awesome loud crack to them,definately no mufflers.And the way he drives I bet he keeps a brake mechanic in bussiness.
Andrew

[gavinwibrow]

The bloke we stir up travels thru town twice a day.His pipes have an awesome loud crack to them,definately no mufflers.And the way he drives I bet he keeps a brake mechanic in bussiness.
Andrew
And why hasn't your local fuzz had a quiet word with him?

[shining]

One thing from the program that "floored me" was the family of the good deceased Samaritan was refused a Workers Comp payout because he stopped and "broke his journey".
In NSW the rules have now changed such that travel to and from work are no longer covered by workers comp so the insurance companies don't even have to worry about rejecting the claim these days.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

The bloke we stir up travels thru town twice a day.His pipes have an awesome loud crack to them,definately no mufflers.And the way he drives I bet he keeps a brake mechanic in bussiness.
Andrew
And why hasn't your local fuzz had a quiet word with him?It might be against the law, but is there a ticket in it?

Its a phrase you often hear from Police.

The issue is that fines like this are frequently the ones challenged in court, which means the officer will have to attend court and sit around all day waiting for the case to come up and it may be on the officer's day off. So they don't issue the ticket in the first place.

[gavinwibrow]

One thing from the program that "floored me" was the family of the good deceased Samaritan was refused a Workers Comp payout because he stopped and "broke his journey".
In NSW the rules have now changed such that travel to and from work are no longer covered by workers comp so the insurance companies don't even have to worry about rejecting the claim these days.

Normally the same in WA for some maybe 10 years now, although you can get additional insurance - for example I think the public service union here has an arrangement for (maybe optional) journey travel. I presumed that the company or union was arranging that cover, as it would not normally apply otherwise.

[George130]

Normally the same in WA for some maybe 10 years now, although you can get additional insurance - for example I think the public service union here has an arrangement for (maybe optional) journey travel. I presumed that the company or union was arranging that cover, as it would not normally apply otherwise.

Public service has no cover for travel to or from your usual place of work. Union offers cover to members or you can take your own out. If you travel for work then you are covered.

[LandyAndy]

In WA you are covered for your "normal" daily trip to and from work.
If you do have an injury and you wernt on your "normal" trip you arent covered by workers comp.
IE,stop at the pub,go shopping etc etc etc and they will worm out of compo payments.
Andrew

[scarry]

Toll have GPS tracking of all there vehicles plus another electronic tracking system in there trucks.
If you go over 100 kph,a light comes on,if over 102 kph a buzzer sounds(and its loud),if you go over 104 kph you loose your job.
We were told this at a meeting late last year ( we were one of the last in the Toll group).


cheers

Mate of mine drives for these guys as well.When they first brought out the tracking,a couple of guys were shown the door for carting drugs.They were watched for a while(by the company) stopping where they shoudn't have been stopping,regularly.

[Stuck]

It might be against the law, but is there a ticket in it?

Its a phrase you often hear from Police.

The issue is that fines like this are frequently the ones challenged in court, which means the officer will have to attend court and sit around all day waiting for the case to come up and it may be on the officer's day off. So they don't issue the ticket in the first place.
The poor bugger. He or she has issued a ticket and the punter has taken it to court meaning that he/she now has to attend court on his/her day off which will no doubt be credited to his/her leave account and if it's not a leave day they get paid to attend court as opposed to the punter that copped the fine and has to sponsor his/her own leave and legal representation (don't the prosecution love adjournments, ask me how I know). The police service play on this crap making it more or less financially unviable to fight smaller charges.

[Sprint]

The poor bugger. He or she has issued a ticket and the punter has taken it to court meaning that he/she now has to attend court on his/her day off which will no doubt be credited to his/her leave account and if it's not a leave day they get paid to attend court as opposed to the punter that copped the fine and has to sponsor his/her own leave and legal representation (don't the prosecution love adjournments, ask me how I know). The police service play on this crap making it more or less financially unviable to fight smaller charges.

Exactly, I'm on pretty good terms with the local wallopers and they reckon its great when someone wants to contest a ticket, couple of hours of paperwork in the office gets them a paid day off the streets....

In thier words "we get paid to go to court, the defendant doesnt"

[gavinwibrow]

In WA you are covered for your "normal" daily trip to and from work.
If you do have an injury and you wernt on your "normal" trip you arent covered by workers comp.
IE,stop at the pub,go shopping etc etc etc and they will worm out of compo payments.
Andrew

Hi Andy - better check that statement for your situation as the rules for WA changed about 10 years or more ago and the to/from work journey is now not normally covered by workers comp. As I said before, you can get additional insurance cover - at a cost.
Of course it helps if you start work from home or live next door to work!!

[gavinwibrow]

Public service has no cover for travel to or from your usual place of work. Union offers cover to members or you can take your own out. If you travel for work then you are covered.
Thats what I said ie the employer is not workers comp liable for to/from work and home journey, but you can get cover eg via some unions

[Killer]

From what I have been told, Queensland is the only state that still covers workers travelling to or from work, and that is under review.

Cheers, Mick.

[LandyAndy]

Hi Andy - better check that statement for your situation as the rules for WA changed about 10 years or more ago and the to/from work journey is now not normally covered by workers comp. As I said before, you can get additional insurance cover - at a cost.
Of course it helps if you start work from home or live next door to work!!

I believe this was discussed at work in the last 2 years.We were told that diverting from our trip will geopordise workers comp.Perhaps some industries have removed it.Pretty sure it was a union organiser pedaling for members that brought it up.We are now union free,the only member was a thief,turns out unions wont protect them:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:.Will enquire at work.
Andrew

[Fatso]

I see Cootze had 15 trucks inspected last week and 8 of those were given defect notices , it is disturbing to see that safety is not very high in their Company Values .

[THE BOOGER]

I wonder were they real safety defects or things like led lights out there's safety defects and there's bull**** defects;)

[Fatso]

I wonder were they real safety defects or things like led lights out there's safety defects and there's bull**** defects;)

According to report I read on the news it was due to brakes and suspension , no more info than that . Of course not saying how accurate the report is knowing the media these days .

[Davehoos]

More time is spent on items like weights and measures, brake balance and position of lights.

brake balance is % across an axle and overall. our 1996 UD PK220 road gang would fail every year on rear axle,it could be adjustment but more likely it was grease,oil or tar/rocks in the drum. the 80 km drive to be tested was enough to throw out the pre inspection.


other trucks would be shackle pins-or loose rivots. Without an axle shacker you cant test.

Lights not working or up to spec often listed on paper work only, not as defects.


2 years ago we had to reposition number plates to suit speed camera angles.


last year we had other road users complaints of smoke off brakes on medium ridged on thunderbolts way roughly in the same area of 2 truck crash this week. I inspected the brakes all looked ok with little signs of heat. when I removed the wheel bearings they been cooked. It would have been months of use before they failed.

[Defender Defender]

If many companies are keeping an eye where their trucks are via GPS, it seems there is no need for a log book as surely the trucking companies, bound by their duty of care, should be responsible for keeping tabs and records on the driver's times, and therefore open to full prosecution for deriliction of duty if they know to be transgressions and they do nothing about it. Like anything to gather momentum, it just needs a gentle push. Big brother mightn't be so keen to keep tabs on everyone if they start to get slapped around instead of the little guy.

[THE BOOGER]

Cant always blame the company what about drivers that drive for more than one employer or are metro only no log book for them or hours. Obviously if the company sets times and distance targets that can not be meet with out breaking rules that is and should be on them not the driver.

[Defender Defender]

Yep, that's agreed. The industry's in a mess. I was always an advocate of the rail doing the long haul and trucks distributing goods from freight centres but, having worked in various parts of the bush for the last 10 years, all I've seen from successive Qld state governments is the continual closing of branch lines. They've even had the "forethought" to rip up some, if not all the rails, so noone can use them ever again without massive costs, so there's my solution ruined. I build roads for a living and can state that they aren't up to carrying the loads they're subjected to, nor is there any money to fix or upgrade them.....properly. Like the show stated- poor roads, low contract fees, escalating costs, ridiculous schedules, delays and unrealistic expectations are all problems. Finding a solution.....wow

[Ausfree]

Yep, that's agreed. The industry's in a mess. I was always an advocate of the rail doing the long haul and trucks distributing goods from freight centres but, having worked in various parts of the bush for the last 10 years, all I've seen from successive Qld state governments is the continual closing of branch lines. They've even had the "forethought" to rip up some, if not all the rails, so noone can use them ever again without massive costs, so there's my solution ruined. I build roads for a living and can state that they aren't up to carrying the loads they're subjected to, nor is there any money to fix or upgrade them.....properly. Like the show stated- poor roads, low contract fees, escalating costs, ridiculous schedules, delays and unrealistic expectations are all problems. Finding a solution.....wow
Yeah, it makes you wonder what is REALLY going on in this country. I am strongly against infrastructure being ripped up that was put down at great expense (and foresight) by earlier generations.

[superquag]

Putting it bluntly, some (?) contract truckers are not the brightest bunnies in the burrow.
Case in point:- For several months I drove a skip bin truck for a driver who'd lost his licence from points accumulation. The deal was, he owned and paid for the vehicle, the Company owned and maintained the bin-lifting equipment. Well, they were supposed to keep it serviced and fit for purpose...
Jobs were issued the night before via FAX, and it was up to him to schedule times and routes etc. Usually enough for a 8 to 12 hour day, and was not obliged to do all listed jobs, which would be carried over to next day.
The Company also had smaller fleet of 'wages' drivers.

Idea was, 'need' would motivate the contractors and they could make much more $$$ than the salaried 'steerers'. Few did, and them only by picking scrap metal out of bins and privately selling it, which was permitted. Or 'private' small bin jobs which was overlooked as long as they were'nt obvious or too many
...
My 'owner' did not fully understand his running costs, or even basic things such as $ per km in fuel/maintenance. Nor did he know what his tyres cost per 100km, only how many he bought last year....
.
The balance of good and bad jobs was such that the less bright buttons thought they were doing well...and could'nt see how the Company was shafting them with long-distance jobs mixed with the odd short one thrown in to keep them keen. They were paid per pick-up/delivery, not time/distance.
Company drivers invariably did the medium cost runs.

Interesting aside. In the European country he was from, demerit points only affect the class of licence you incur them on. All of his were points were done in his car. Not the truck. Here, he loses all licences... over there he'd have lost his car, but not the truck licence. Adn no need fo the rigmarole of "E" licence applications etc. - just ride a bicycle to work and drive the truck to earn a wage to pay his parking fines...

[frantic]

Unless your cover by private insurance, like that provided by a union, or your a subbie who works from a home office and has coverage YOU are no longer covered. https://www.riskcover.wa.gov.au/workerscomp/riskcover_claimsmanagement_workers_comp_faq.shtml
It's the same in NSW to the point we had to get the union involved in an incident where a bloke on overtime call out fell over in the change rooms after the cleaners left slippery wet fluid all over change room floor. Manager tried to claim under New rules he was on his way home so not covered. ( change room next to crib room, not off site)

[Bigbjorn]

Cant always blame the company what about drivers that drive for more than one employer or are metro only no log book for them or hours. Obviously if the company sets times and distance targets that can not be meet with out breaking rules that is and should be on them not the driver.

When I worked at GM-H Pagewood, the car carrier owner drivers for one major company would do metro work all day (no log book) and a country run at night. They would get 4-6 hours off duty and back into the Sydney work next morning. By Friday they would be like zombies. I remember seeing one guy who was so fatigued he drove a car up onto the top deck and then just stepped out into space as if he was on the ground.

Using local trucks to pick-up and deliver to and from transit centres will only work if the rail leg becomes super-fast and the trans-shipping between modes becomes super-efficient. Nowadays Eastern Seaboard customers want their freight next working day. Road freighters can do this door to door in the case of Brisbane-Sydney and Sydney-Melbourne no problem at all. No one has yet got rail freight that fast and efficient.

[Bigbjorn]

Yep, that's agreed. The industry's in a mess. I was always an advocate of the rail doing the long haul and trucks distributing goods from freight centres but, having worked in various parts of the bush for the last 10 years, all I've seen from successive Qld state governments is the continual closing of branch lines. They've even had the "forethought" to rip up some, if not all the rails, so noone can use them ever again without massive costs, so there's my solution ruined. I build roads for a living and can state that they aren't up to carrying the loads they're subjected to, nor is there any money to fix or upgrade them.....properly. Like the show stated- poor roads, low contract fees, escalating costs, ridiculous schedules, delays and unrealistic expectations are all problems. Finding a solution.....wow

Tell this to those country folk who stopped using rail because road was quicker and more efficient. No freight or passengers = no need for the branch line. The Qld. Government even had restrictive laws about what could be carried by road and who could carry it in order to support the govt. owned rail network. Many items could only be carried by road to or from rail. There was a system of permit holders who were the only people allowed to carry goods by road between certain points. They were not permitted to charge less than the railway. When the permit system was done away with in the early 1960's rail freight dropped to a trickle.

[V8Ian]

Well if they were in a union................................:whistling:

The industry is controlled by two major companies. While these two outfits openly advocate safety, lower speed limits and GPS/sat-nav tracking they are vehemently opposed to a minimum safe rate. :confused: The first three issues would save the majors money and give them a cost advantage over subbies. Conversely a minimum safe rate would significantly increase costs to the prime contractor.

An owner driver/ sub-contractor has between $500,000 and $750,000 invested in each B-double. Rego costs $15,000 a year, steer tyres are $600 each, with drive and trailer tyres $3-400 each; there are 32 of them (~$11,250). The subbie is only paid a GPO to GPO kilometre rate, meaning loading time and delays are not paid for. Further, freight loaded (for example) in Dandenong consigned to Nerangba is paid as Melbourne 3000 Post Office to Brisbane 4000 Post Office kilometres. Expect 5 mpg from these trucks, it doesn't take long for fuel bills to exceed tens of thousands.

The subbie typically receives 10% or less than what the prime contractor charges, not a bad return on the cost of a phone line.

When your back's against the wall you'll do what it takes to feed your kids and pay the mortgage.

[Ean Austral]

Well if they were in a union................................:whistling:

The industry is controlled by two major companies. While these two outfits openly advocate safety, lower speed limits and GPS/sat-nav tracking they are vehemently opposed to a minimum safe rate. :confused: The first three issues would save the majors money and give them a cost advantage over subbies. Conversely a minimum safe rate would significantly increase costs to the prime contractor.

An owner driver/ sub-contractor has between $500,000 and $750,000 invested in each B-double. Rego costs $15,000 a year, steer tyres are $600 each, with drive and trailer tyres $3-400 each; there are 32 of them (~$11,250). The subbie is only paid a GPO to GPO kilometre rate, meaning loading time and delays are not paid for. Further, freight loaded (for example) in Dandenong consigned to Nerangba is paid as Melbourne 3000 Post Office to Brisbane 4000 Post Office kilometres. Expect 5 mpg from these trucks, it doesn't take long for fuel bills to exceed tens of thousands.

The subbie typically receives 10% or less than what the prime contractor charges, not a bad return on the cost of a phone line.

When your back's against the wall you'll do what it takes to feed your kids and pay the mortgage.


I was told about 1 of the big 2 company's offering a 3rd party to deliver a couple of trailers to an interstate depot and offered extra $$ if it could go EXPRESS. when I asked what express meant , it was quicker than their own drivers were allowed to do it.


I have no reason to doubt the bloke who told me , as he was the one who did it, and for all the reasons mentioned, ie costs involved in the operation of the truck Vs the prices paid to subbie for work


Even people who promote the safe practices don't always practice what they preach.


It seems very wrong to me that the trucking industry comes under such intense scrutiny, when any person driving a car can jump in it and drive non stop from one state to another without question.


After all isn't about make ALL road users safer.


Cheers Ean

[V8Ian]

I was told about 1 of the big 2 company's offering a 3rd party to deliver a couple of trailers to an interstate depot and offered extra $$ if it could go EXPRESS. when I asked what express meant , it was quicker than their own drivers were allowed to do it.


I have no reason to doubt the bloke who told me , as he was the one who did it, and for all the reasons mentioned, ie costs involved in the operation of the truck Vs the prices paid to subbie for work


Even people who promote the safe practices don't always practice what they preach.


It seems very wrong to me that the trucking industry comes under such intense scrutiny, when any person driving a car can jump in it and drive non stop from one state to another without question.


After all isn't about make ALL road users safer.


Cheers Ean
Quite common practice Ean, the absolutely, positively overnight type express divisions dispatch the company trucks first, then painted subbies and lastly unpainted subbies who are expected to arrive at the same time, often without enough legal time. ETAs are usually given verbally so they can be denied if the smelly stuff hits the fan.
All your points are valid. Why do governments refuse to treat roads as a truckies' workplace?

[frantic]

The B-BIG difference is what happens when a car driver falls asleep compared to a truck/bus driver. A B-double driver dozes and takes out a house, several cars or another bus, 99% of car smashes are either single or 2 cars and in the few where they do hit a truck or bus, usually the truck/bus occupants are relatively ok.
Most workplaces have swipe cards, trucks should have the same , insert your license and off you go with time limits etc recorded. Make them instantly downloadable at certain hotspots in various areas so like the cops newer rego checking computers in their cars.

[beefy]

I hang around the drivers over here and do lots of long haul driving. the biggest problems with most of these guys is they are on drugs and the road house hop. the go hard to get the road house and then sit there and talk rubbish for an hour and then they are behind. here in wa we have longer hours available and if you do it right you can do it, make great time and not be to stressed. I normally start driving at 5am breakfast at 8am , morning tea at 10.30am lunch at 12.30 afternoon tea at 3.30 dinner at 6.30 and then bed by 11 and you have done 1300kms with pushing it and have lots of breaks

[slug_burner]

Well if they were in a union................................:whistling:

The industry is controlled by two major companies. While these two outfits openly advocate safety, lower speed limits and GPS/sat-nav tracking they are vehemently opposed to a minimum safe rate. :confused: The first three issues would save the majors money and give them a cost advantage over subbies. Conversely a minimum safe rate would significantly increase costs to the prime contractor.

An owner driver/ sub-contractor has between $500,000 and $750,000 invested in each B-double. Rego costs $15,000 a year, steer tyres are $600 each, with drive and trailer tyres $3-400 each; there are 32 of them (~$11,250). The subbie is only paid a GPO to GPO kilometre rate, meaning loading time and delays are not paid for. Further, freight loaded (for example) in Dandenong consigned to Nerangba is paid as Melbourne 3000 Post Office to Brisbane 4000 Post Office kilometres. Expect 5 mpg from these trucks, it doesn't take long for fuel bills to exceed tens of thousands.

The subbie typically receives 10% or less than what the prime contractor charges, not a bad return on the cost of a phone line.

When your back's against the wall you'll do what it takes to feed your kids and pay the mortgage.

You have to question what you are doing when you are doing illegal stuff.

The biggest problem is not the running costs of the vehicle but the loan repayments. Not enough equity in the truck and trailer means that the bank takes most of what you earn. They paint themselves into a corner before they even start.

[frantic]

I hang around the drivers over here and do lots of long haul driving. the biggest problems with most of these guys is they are on drugs and the road house hop. the go hard to get the road house and then sit there and talk rubbish for an hour and then they are behind. here in wa we have longer hours available and if you do it right you can do it, make great time and not be to stressed. I normally start driving at 5am breakfast at 8am , morning tea at 10.30am lunch at 12.30 afternoon tea at 3.30 dinner at 6.30 and then bed by 11 and you have done 1300kms with pushing it and have lots of breaks

And this is why we need traceable monitoring of hours and limits.
Going from beefy's post he's doing 18hr days with 5.5 hrs sleep , it would be" interesting" driving near him after 5-6 days of that schedule. :eek:

[Ean Austral]

And this is why we need traceable monitoring of hours and limits.
Going from beefy's post he's doing 18hr days with 5.5 hrs sleep , it would be" interesting" driving near him after 5-6 days of that schedule. :eek:

Those hours were standard when I was fishing, and we would do them every day for 4 months straight.

The only day he would be a problem is the day/night he didnt get a good sleep.

I gave up fishing over 2 yrs ago and still dont sleep any longer than 5-6 hours every day

Cheers Ean

[42rangie]

Just a point about 'Mercan trucks.

My brother drives for a moderate-to-large trucking firm. He got a new Kenworth 3 months ago. Nice truck. GPS, satcom, digital logbook, engine power management via satelite, even tells the company when and where the trailer was dropped off.

When he starts the engine he has to punch in his ID number to log in to the system.

Les

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Just a point about 'Mercan trucks.

My brother drives for a moderate-to-large trucking firm. ...Trust the septics to be first with "big brother" (the Orson Welles' 1984 type, not the TV verson). Next you'll drive through a safety camera which will download your data and they'll send you an infringement via SMS message. :D

A mate recently returned from doing a load to Perth, a few days later received a please explain because the truck was photographed in WA and NSW with the same one-up driver at the wheel with illegal transit times. The problem was he wasn't one up each time he went through the cameras it was the same driver but the owner driver was in the sleeper cab. Only cleared the case when both logbooks were submitted.