Lift Blitz on the horizon in QLD

[tonic]

Hi All.


I was running over my 110 with a fellow Landy nut and current sergeant of police at our local traffic branch. As some of the mods, nothing special, on my car where done by the previous owner, I wanted to make sure I would not come unglued in a road side check like those conducted at Inskip Point in October.


Anyway, with regard to lifting your vehicle in Queensland it goes like this. You can have 50mm without needing a Mod Plate. This can be either, 50mm suspension or 50mm body or a combination of both but not exceeding 50mm in total lift. Once you go over 50mm you need a Mod Plate.


If you are caught without a Mod Plate with greater than 50mm lift, your car will be deemed unroadworthy and you are going to have a bad day, especially if you away on holiday and have to have everything towed home. If you are caught a second time your car will be impounded at your expense for 90 days.


So from what he said my understanding was that if you go over 50mm you need to change all your suspension, radius arms etc etc and then get a mod plate, otherwise, if caught you will be put off the road.


Apparently we can expect to see road side checks starting soon. Think it's time I bought a tilt tray.

[London Boy]

Hi All.


I was running over my 110 with a fellow Landy nut and current sergeant of police at our local traffic branch. As some of the mods, nothing special, on my car where done by the previous owner, I wanted to make sure I would not come unglued in a road side check like those conducted at Inskip Point in October.


Anyway, with regard to lifting your vehicle in Queensland it goes like this. You can have 50mm without needing a Mod Plate. This can be either, 50mm suspension or 50mm body or a combination of both but not exceeding 50mm in total lift. Once you go over 50mm you need a Mod Plate.


If you are caught without a Mod Plate with greater than 50mm lift, your car will be deemed unroadworthy and you are going to have a bad day, especially if you away on holiday and have to have everything towed home. If you are caught a second time your car will be impounded at your expense for 90 days.


So from what he said my understanding was that if you go over 50mm you need to change all your suspension, radius arms etc etc and then get a mod plate, otherwise, if caught you will be put off the road.


Apparently we can expect to see road side checks starting soon. Think it's time I bought a tilt tray.
In Qld you can, as well as the 50mm lift, have 25mm on the tyres (i.e. 50mm greater diameter) giving 75mm max lift w/o engineering.

[Dougal]

It would be very interesting to see the factory figures for ride height. I've found these for the RRC, but 90/110/defender came out with a whole lot more suspension, body and tyre options than the RRC did.

Is it really a problem if they ticket the people with 4-6" lifts and big rubber just for posing?

[uninformed]

Hi All.


I was running over my 110 with a fellow Landy nut and current sergeant of police at our local traffic branch. As some of the mods, nothing special, on my car where done by the previous owner, I wanted to make sure I would not come unglued in a road side check like those conducted at Inskip Point in October.


Anyway, with regard to lifting your vehicle in Queensland it goes like this. You can have 50mm without needing a Mod Plate. This can be either, 50mm suspension or 50mm body or a combination of both but not exceeding 50mm in total lift. Once you go over 50mm you need a Mod Plate.


If you are caught without a Mod Plate with greater than 50mm lift, your car will be deemed unroadworthy and you are going to have a bad day, especially if you away on holiday and have to have everything towed home. If you are caught a second time your car will be impounded at your expense for 90 days.


So from what he said my understanding was that if you go over 50mm you need to change all your suspension, radius arms etc etc and then get a mod plate, otherwise, if caught you will be put off the road.


Apparently we can expect to see road side checks starting soon. Think it's time I bought a tilt tray.

Did he actually say you would need to change the suspension links to go over 50mm lift.

I would find that funny as:

There is no guide lines for 4x4 suspension links and changing them in the NCOP or QLD DOT regs.

and

Who determines it, I dont think the police have a engineering back ground...

I would also like to know how they determine a 50mm or greater lift? I can tell you that the factory rear bumpstop clearance on my stock 110 ute with alloy tray (as came from LR dealer) will have a larger distance than a stock 110 wagon.....

[tonic]

Did he actually say you would need to change the suspension links to go over 50mm lift.

I would find that funny as:

There is no guide lines for 4x4 suspension links and changing them in the NCOP or QLD DOT regs.

and

Who determines it, I dont think the police have a engineering back ground...

I would also like to know how they determine a 50mm or greater lift? I can tell you that the factory rear bumpstop clearance on my stock 110 ute with alloy tray (as came from LR dealer) will have a larger distance than a stock 110 wagon.....


He said you would have to do what ever it took to get the mod plate including linkages etc. It would depend on who is doing the mod plate.


They will more than likely have calibrated measuring devices and work of a list of say guard heights or other lines on the car. I have seen the wheels they use to roll under cars to measure minimum heights.


It's like everything, where there is a will there is a way. Queensland Transport does have qualified people for various vehicles, that's who will be doing the road side checks, when they get around to it. I meet with 2 every year when we put the trucks in for machinery.

[tonic]

The police don't have to have qualified people, they can order you to take your car for a Queensland Transport inspection where they do have qualified people.

[uninformed]

The police don't have to have qualified people, they can order you to take your car for a Queensland Transport inspection where they do have qualified people.

My limited experience shows that the Police fine is given first, some times biased by opinion, and they are not in the habbit of over turning fines, no matter how wrong they may be.

I do not have a problem with rules and regulations
I do not have a problem with those being enforced

I do have a problem with the inconsistancy of the enforcment
I do have a problem with the way QLD DOT has set up the implementation of the NCOP and how hard it is to get information and find suitable people to apply said information to modifications.

Im not "shooting the messenger", I understand you are just passing on information.

Its just an area that has been extremely frustrating for me for many years.

It is also now an area that can be used to fill the revenue quota that Mr Newman and Co have set.

[V8Ian]

The police don't have to have qualified people, they can order you to take your car for a Queensland Transport inspection where they do have qualified people.

The staff at QT inspection stations and roadside tests have no mechanical qualifications either.

[tonic]

My limited experience shows that the Police fine is given first, some times biased by opinion, and they are not in the habbit of over turning fines, no matter how wrong they may be.

I do not have a problem with rules and regulations
I do not have a problem with those being enforced

I do have a problem with the inconsistancy of the enforcment
I do have a problem with the way QLD DOT has set up the implementation of the NCOP and how hard it is to get information and find suitable people to apply said information to modifications.

Im not "shooting the messenger", I understand you are just passing on information.

Its just an area that has been extremely frustrating for me for many years.

It is also now an area that can be used to fill the revenue quota that Mr Newman and Co have set.


Yep

[tonic]

The staff at QT inspection stations and roadside tests have no mechanical qualifications either.


That depends on if they do a task force style inspection station If they are targeting one thing they will have qualified people at the sites, but you are correct, not generally.

[scarry]

I would also like to know how they determine a 50mm or greater lift? I can tell you that the factory rear bumpstop clearance on my stock 110 ute with alloy tray (as came from LR dealer) will have a larger distance than a stock 110 wagon.....

Exactly

Say with a common vehicle such as a GU wagon they would probably have a good idea,but with a deefer,there have been many models over many years,so they would probably have no idea,and they are not as common as say a GU or a 79/100 series.

But hopefully it may get rid of some of those rediculously lifted Pootrols that are around.

[tonic]

Exactly

Say with a common vehicle such as a GU wagon they would probably have a good idea,but with a deefer,there have been many models over many years,so they would probably have no idea,and they are not as common as say a GU or a 79/100 series.

But hopefully it may get rid of some of those rediculously lifted Pootrols that are around.



Yer, they're the ones. Mine has a 50mm lift which I inherited when I bought it. Wider but standard height tyres.


My mate said they probably wouldn't even take a second look. The idea of the thread was just to pass on what you can do as explained to me. I think we all know the type of thing they will be looking for.


As Uninformed said, it is hard to get information or find the people who know it when you need it. I called one day about a wide load I wanted to bring to the Gold Coast from Childers on a Sunday. I was put onto a team member with specialist knowledge. She put me on hold once I posed the question. She then came back and told me where to find it on the internet. I explained that I was sitting in a drilling rig in the bush and had no internet which was why I was calling. I then got told I should have better organised myself and perhaps I should head to the nearest town to use a computer in the library.


I'll give you all one guess as to my reaction to that bit of help from Queensland Transport :rocket:

[Ralph1Malph]

It is also now an area that can be used to fill the revenue quota that Mr Newman and Co have set.

I followed you up until then!:p
I don't know how long height regulations have been part of the law, but I suggest a while.
So in truth, up until this supposed cracked down, law enforcement officers have been under policing these laws.
We tend to prefer to take our chances with this sort of thing as many laws and regulations are under policed.
In some ways, proper policing actually leads to law changes if it is discovered that the law is difficult to enforce or does not lead to the outcomes intended.
I for one will run the gauntlet as I want to throw another 25mm under the disco shortly. I also see a real opportunity here for next gen air suspension or variable height suspension.

Cheers
Ralph

[trog]

In addition to the legalities of modifications I personally feel that if the insurance company has doubts , it isnt worth the risk. I would hate to put time and effort into a vehicle only to find the policy is voided for a few extra mm's of rubber or lift.

[uninformed]

I followed you up until then!:p
I don't know how long height regulations have been part of the law, but I suggest a while.
So in truth, up until this supposed cracked down, law enforcement officers have been under policing these laws.
We tend to prefer to take our chances with this sort of thing as many laws and regulations are under policed.
In some ways, proper policing actually leads to law changes if it is discovered that the law is difficult to enforce or does not lead to the outcomes intended.
I for one will run the gauntlet as I want to throw another 25mm under the disco shortly. I also see a real opportunity here for next gen air suspension or variable height suspension.

Cheers
Ralph

Its pretty much is being talked about all over SEQ. A huge increase in ticketing for minor vehicle offences. I have received it personally. On top of which, no questions asked, no warning given, just tickets issued.

Im not saying that we should be allowed to brake the law, or have unsafe vehicles.

I do find the lack of clear information and the ease of which it is extracted quite painful, on top of which the Police always fall back to the failsafe of "Ignorance of the law is no excuse". I do not have the time to study and become an expert in the "light vehicle code" Which probably wouldn't matter if my interpretation is different to the fining officer.

Which brings me back to "once the ticket is issued, they are not in the habit of over turning it, no matter how wrong they are"

Here is one example that I find ridiculous and unsafe: We are allowed to increase lift by 50mm with no extra work. We can go over that with the appropriate engineering. We are NOT allowed to increase track width greater than 50mm over all (25mm each side)

If vehicle safety is a concern, and COG/roll angle a big part there of, how much wheel track extension is needed to nullify any change due to the paltry 50mm lift... ;)

[dullbird]

"once the ticket is issued, they are not in the habit of over turning it, no matter how wrong they are"

Then surely if you can prove they are wrong you court elect...thats why they are probably not in the habbit of over turning beaus they possibly bank on the fact that most people go oh its not worth fighting it in court because it cost to much money.

but if your right then your right...so prove them wrong

[mark2]

The staff at QT inspection stations and roadside tests have no mechanical qualifications either.

Some dont, but many do. I have a friend who works for QLD Transport as an inspector or 'scaley' and who is also a trade qualified diesel fitter/mechanic. He has a lot of colleauges who are either ex mechanics or ex police officers.

[uninformed]

Then surely if you can prove they are wrong you court elect...thats why they are probably not in the habbit of over turning beaus they possibly bank on the fact that most people go oh its not worth fighting it in court because it cost to much money.

but if your right then your right...so prove them wrong

Time and money is well and truly on their side. Trust me not even the courts do their duty in this area.

[dullbird]

courts can not ignore actual proof! however if you turn up with weak arguments then of course they are not going to over turn...the biggest thing I find with courts is, even when people think they are right they turn up not realising that they haven't interpreted the law correctly but more importantly they turn up with no proof in defence of the allegation.
My experience of course is not in automotive industry even when it comes to court. but when I do go to court I get to listen to diferent criminal proceedings and its amazing what does get overturned in court and I have seen judges give cops a dressing down too (all be it in a politically correct way;) ). :D

[42rangie]

Like this?:D

Les

[uninformed]

courts can not ignore actual proof! however if you turn up with weak arguments then of course they are not going to over turn...the biggest thing I find with courts is, even when people think they are right they turn up not realising that they haven't interpreted the law correctly but more importantly they turn up with no proof in defence of the allegation.
My experience of course is not in automotive industry even when it comes to court. but when I do go to court I get to listen to diferent criminal proceedings and its amazing what does get overturned in court and I have seen judges give cops a dressing down too (all be it in a politically correct way;) ). :D

A friend of mine has a case pending. He clearly has a lot of hard evidence on his side. The case is still in "limbo" ( I.e. the Police are not following it up) They tried a lot of tactics like court date on his birthday, go to court hrs away rather than more local to him, stall for more prep time etc. The courts should have thrown it out by now. If he was in the wrong in the slightess, the Police would have fronted, made their case and pursued the full fine etc.

At this stage (well over 2 years since commencment) the case is still pending, that is, he has not been made to pay the fine, but nore have they ofically withdrawn it etc. He fully expects to have it "pop up" in years to come. At which time he will be ready, again, as he has been every time they requested him....

I would like to give you more facts on the case, but as its not settled feel it not right. It has been a huge eye opener to me :mad:

[Redback]

How will this affect interstate vehicles travelling around in QLD, because our lift laws are slightly different and I believe most states are different to other states.

Why isn't this a National, there was going to be a national standard, but QLD and one other state refused to be apart of it, is this true, does anyone know??

Baz.

[ScottW]

This is no surprise. All the kids with turbo imports are sick of being harrassed, so moved on to 4wd's, which they then modified with big lifts and big wheels.

The number of people who had the mindset of "It doesn't affect me so why should I care" while the police were ripping a new one to all the import drivers was frustrating as blind Freddy could see this coming.

Either way, if you have any worries of queries, I recommend give Queensland Transports 'Vehicle Standards' a call on 3114 5844. These are the technical guys that seem to know this stuff properly. I found them quite helpful in the past.

[Bigbjorn]

Either way, if you have any worries of queries, I recommend give Queensland Transports 'Vehicle Standards' a call on 3114 5844. These are the technical guys that seem to know this stuff properly. I found them quite helpful in the past.

I once was preparing an article for a club magazine regarding the legality of certain popular accessories and the methods of fitment. I consulted the QT website and where this was not clear, I contacted either Vehicle Standards or Modifications direct. I did learn that if you speak to three QT officers you will get three opinions. In one case, I gave up and wrote to the Minister's office, copy to the Dept. head, and my local member requesting the Minister give a definitive opinion. I certainly put the brown stuff in the ventilators but did get a written reply. I suggested in my article that any club members with this particular accessory laminate a copy of the minister's reply and keep it in the car with them.

The QT regulations and the NCOP are written in public service English and rarely give a black or white, yes or no, answer to your research. The regs seem designed to draw a veil over the meanings, confuse and obfuscate, and thus cover the public service arse.

[Blknight.aus]

The staff at QT inspection stations and roadside tests have no mechanical qualifications either.

generally I concur...


I knew it was bad but i had it confirmed when I was getting rego on fozzy.

apparently my brake pads were underthickness and needed changing

I had 2 problems with this...

1. I had the safety cert in hand and it indicated no such problem
2. Fozzy has drum brakes.

it was very entertaining listening to the bloke bull**** his way around when I asked him how he inspected the brakes without taking the wheels off...

[Redback]

I once was preparing an article for a club magazine regarding the legality of certain popular accessories and the methods of fitment. I consulted the QT website and where this was not clear, I contacted either Vehicle Standards or Modifications direct. I did learn that if you speak to three QT officers you will get three opinions. In one case, I gave up and wrote to the Minister's office, copy to the Dept. head, and my local member requesting the Minister give a definitive opinion. I certainly put the brown stuff in the ventilators but did get a written reply. I suggested in my article that any club members with this particular accessory laminate a copy of the minister's reply and keep it in the car with them.

The QT regulations and the NCOP are written in public service English and rarely give a black or white, yes or no, answer to your research. The regs seem designed to draw a veil over the meanings, confuse and obfuscate, and thus cover the public service arse.

The new NSW regs seemed pretty clear when I read them, and they included air suspension as well, you can lift your car 50mm in suspension and go up 7%(51mm) in tyre size without an engineers cert, from memory(can't find the link)

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I would also like to know how they determine a 50mm or greater lift? I can tell you that the factory rear bumpstop clearance on my stock 110 ute with alloy tray (as came from LR dealer) will have a larger distance than a stock 110 wagon.....You will find there are publications issued to Blue Slip examiners and the transport authorities that list the orginal specifications of all vehicle make and model types sold in Australia for the last 20 years or so. They list the location of the numbers and the relevant weights and measures of each model. They even list the differences between years of the same make and model variant.

At least those are available in NSW and I have no doub't that QT have the same.

[JDNSW]

You will find there are publications issued to Blue Slip examiners and the transport authorities that list the orginal specifications of all vehicle make and model types sold in Australia for the last 20 years or so. They list the location of the numbers and the relevant weights and measures of each model. They even list the differences between years of the same make and model variant.

At least those are available in NSW and I have no doub't that QT have the same.

Driving two vehicles 28 and 44 years old, the relevance to me seems a bit strained!

John

[Keithy P38]

That's why I love the airbag suspension on my P38!

I've lifted it 2", but you wouldn't tell unless you looked underneath or came 4wding with me.

[Dougal]

That's why I love the airbag suspension on my P38!

I've lifted it 2", but you wouldn't tell unless you looked underneath or came 4wding with me.

Honestly though, I doubt these guys are after the guys with 55mm lifts. They'll surely start with the low-hanging fruit. 6+ inch lifts on mall-crawlers.

[uninformed]

Honestly though, I doubt these guys are after the guys with 55mm lifts. They'll surely start with the low-hanging fruit. 6+ inch lifts on mall-crawlers.

Problem is a 2 inch lift in a Defender has about the same guard clearance as a patrol with a 4-5 inch lift. So, going by look, either they think the Patrol is OK or the Landy not.

Once pulled over it can be the start of a big can of worms (If they dont get you for one thing, they will look for more)

Only time will tell....

[2stroke]

On the bright side though, it evens the playing field for somebody like me who uses old Suzukis and Defenders as a weapon of choice. In the '80s, where not many people ran more than 2" lift, 60 series Toyotas and MQ wagons weren't used much for the tougher stuff because, (apart from the very high purchase price) the body damage was just too easy to come by. The cars that did best were series Rovers, LJ suzukis, 40 series 'cruisers, CJ Jeeps etc. Once the law puts the 3" body lift in the bin, along with 35s and 6" spring lift my LJ Suzi and Defender suddenly become capable again.:p