Should I buy a defender?

[Joshmorg]

Hi everyone.

During my visit to the 4wd expo at Newcastle my misconceptions and assumptions about Defenders was respectfully smashed by John from Opposite Lock in Islington. He convinced me I should buy one and pointed me here. So...

Should I buy one?
I want a comfortable daily that can take me to Cape York and across the Simpson in the not too distant future.
What, if any, accessories will I need to get me and an offroad camper to these destinations?

What are some major pluses and minuses of a defender?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Josh.

[dullbird]

Josh a defender will easily get you to the cape and to the simpson straight out of the box...

will it get you there in comfort? the only person that can answer that question is you...because we dont know what your comfort requirements as a person are.

why dont you tell us what your misconceptions and asumptions were and that way we can tall you if they are true or not and perhaps try and answer your questions in this manner

The question you have asked has been asked time and time again on here so I would encourage you to use the search function.

what are you driving now? why are you looking to change it.

there are many many minus to a Land Rover (some of them are just considered a Land Rover thing to people that own them) however the pluses I personally feel out weigh those minuses :)

the biggest thing for me is if you have to convince someone to buy a defender then they probably should really be driving one...because you either love em or you hate them..
Go drive one if you havent already because at least that would be a start :)

[Joshmorg]

Thanks. I currently drive a lowered, 300 rwkw v8 ute. So this would be a complete change. My wife and I want to do some travelling soon so the ute has to go. I am simply at the research stage and am narrowing down my options of vehicle (defender, hilux, navara, patrol) before I go and start test driving some.

I have been searching and found a lot of useful info.

Comfortability - it has to better and more forgiving than a lowered ute i guess?

Assumptions and misconceptions - traditionally plagued by problems (oil leaks, new pumps, replace bearings and other basic consumables at half regular shelf life, no creature comforts like good air con, decent radio etc). My other misconception was that they simply weren't as capable and as reliable (daily and offroad) as a hilux, navara or patrol. Having looked at the specs side by side and talking with John, the defender seems more than capable 'out of the box' but reliability is a big thing for me. I regularly log book service any vehicle I own and will do so with the next. I just can't afford to be replacing part after part each service. Is this common in defenders? One defender owner has done over 200,000 kms and the biggest thing replaced was a water pump.

So what should I expect if i purchase a second hand 110 or 130, 2002 to 2009 model with around 100-200,000 kms?

[Rurover]

Josh,

Given the year range you've specified, I guess you'd be looking at a Td5.
It's not as comfortable as the current Puma Defenders, as the air con is somewhat underwhelming and the heater is not much better.

However I found my previous Td5 comfortable to drive on long journeys, despite what the professional road testers tend to say. (ie "shocking ergonomics" etc).
The thing is, you sit up straight with your legs bent as they should be (no stuck out in front of you as they would be in your fancy ute). You have a great view of the road, and the instruments and controls are pretty well where you expect them to be.

The clutch will be much heavier than in your ute, the indicators are on the LHS, the gear change requires a bit of patience (no slick changes here!) and the turning circle is similar to a Kenworth truck. Oh and the passenger foot well is a bit crowded by the air con fan etc.

So if you're doing a lot of stop-start commuting, it can be a bit of a pain, bit on the open road, it's fine. It'll probably get about the same fuel consumption as your ute, but the tyres will last MUCH longer (100,000km if you're careful!).
But it's when you take it off-road that it really feels "RIGHT".
Just feels as though it belongs there, inspires great confidence, and makes you smile. (Though your wife may be like mine, and panic when the going gets tough.... just smile in a knowing way and reassure here that she's in a Land Rover and it'll all be OK... )

Mechanically the Td5 is a nice simple beast, despite being "fly by wire". Reliable engine (no timing belt to break!), well proven transmission and no real weaknesses that I can recall.
Look for rust in the corners of the door frames, make sure the gearbox shifts smoothly (though slowly as mentioned), DO make sure it easily selects Hi and Lo ratio and stays there when selected, and listen for excess "clunk" when changing gear..this is backlash in the drive train, generally caused by wear.

The beauty of the Defender is that you can add all sorts of accessories quite easily.. after all, it's just a big bare aluminium box with plenty of room to insert camping gear, recovery equipment etc.

As mentioned see if you can borrow or comprehensively test drive the beast before buying one, and do take it off-road so you get that smile on your face!

Good Luck,

Alan

[jasonedu]

However I found my previous Td5 comfortable to drive on long journeys, despite what the professional road testers tend to say. (ie "shocking ergonomics" etc).
The thing is, you sit up straight with your legs bent as they should be (no stuck out in front of you as they would be in your fancy ute).

When you first sit in a defender it will feel different - thats not bad it just takes a bit of getting used to.

I also find being up against the door (something everyone seems to worry about) means my knee sits a lot straighter as well as it isn't hanging out to the side.

But definitely very comfortable for longer journeys.

[Cobber]

I've done three trips to Adelaide and back in my td5 110 and while not being the most comfortable car ever made you still get out at the other end as can still use your legs so it's not too bad :D if you're going for a second hand car the two main things to look for are a good service history and signs if rust - don't be afraid to get under it. Mines at 230000 kms without any major work needed over 10 years - a well maintained td5 will last forever :BigThumb:

I also drive a (diesel) Hilux for work so I can make comparisons between the two. Honestly I find the Toyota is more comfortable and tends to cover distance a bit easier, but it is fairly thirsty and I've found it to be more unreliable that the Defender - I do some hard Kilometres in both. Put simply, the Landy feels like it is screwed together better :cool: the air con / stereo in the hilux is better but I've never had a drama with either in the Defender, not even in the middle of summer do I find that the air con struggles. These would be better again in a new Defender.

On road ability is much of a muchness but there's no question the Landy is better off road. If you're buying second hand don't be afraid to shop around a bit. You will probably find you'll end up with a Defender that's already had some after market gear fitted to it :BigThumb:

[Trundle]

I own a Patrol, have a 'work' Navara, and a 130 300Tdi, the Navara is one of the worst cars I have driven, I find it gutless, and if your towing, then trying to reverse in the thing is pointless. The Patrol is a family wagon, 7 seats and can go off road, better than the Navara, but I wouldn't do to much off roading in it, I find it wallowee(?). The 130 is my vehicle of choice, if I'm going out bush, or for a long run. Comfortable, tough, and as reliable as YOU make it. I do a lot of sand/beach driving where I am, and the 130 makes it feel effortless in comparison to the other two.
As others have said, the comfort thing is an innately personal thing, that you will only know after doing some Ks. Go to a dealer and test drive a new one and see what you think.
Just remember that no matter what you buy, someone will have had bad experiences with it, and written about it somewhere. Most people don't write about the good stuff.
Cheers

[Pickles2]

Thanks. I currently drive a lowered, 300 rwkw v8 ute. So this would be a complete change. My wife and I want to do some travelling soon so the ute has to go. I am simply at the research stage and am narrowing down my options of vehicle (defender, hilux, navara, patrol) before I go and start test driving some.

I have been searching and found a lot of useful info.

Comfortability - it has to better and more forgiving than a lowered ute i guess?

Assumptions and misconceptions - traditionally plagued by problems (oil leaks, new pumps, replace bearings and other basic consumables at half regular shelf life, no creature comforts like good air con, decent radio etc). My other misconception was that they simply weren't as capable and as reliable (daily and offroad) as a hilux, navara or patrol. Having looked at the specs side by side and talking with John, the defender seems more than capable 'out of the box' but reliability is a big thing for me. I regularly log book service any vehicle I own and will do so with the next. I just can't afford to be replacing part after part each service. Is this common in defenders? One defender owner has done over 200,000 kms and the biggest thing replaced was a water pump.

So what should I expect if i purchase a second hand 110 or 130, 2002 to 2009 model with around 100-200,000 kms?
300RWKW Ute?
Our other car is a C63, & I even prefer "driving" (and you really do have to DRIVE them!), the Defender over the C63.
Should you buy one?....Of course you should, but, if possible, one with lower ks than you are talking about.
Cheers, Pickles.

[noyakfat]

Should I buy one?

YES

[camel_landy]

It is a Vegemite car... You'll either love it or hate it.

Frankly, it's a 30yr old car, based on a 60yr old design. It's uncomfortable, noisy, poor ventilation, crap turning circle and requires regular servicing.

If you're buying with your head, get a Disco. A Disco will also do all of that, straight out of the box.

However, it's your money... Your choice.

M

[Leyland1980]

Get a TD5 they are ace!

[Joshmorg]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts!

My budget is up to about $35000 so based on that i can get a fairly decent defender with some extras but ks from 80000 and up. I would like as little ks as possible but budget restricts my options a little. Thanks again!

300RWKW Ute? Not sure if you're asking what it meant but it has 300 rear wheel kilowatts of power 400+horse power.

[ThorneGator]

In a 'word', yes!

To your first question.... I have always said that it is pretty close to the most uncomfortable, and least convenient of cars to own, but I wouldn't change it for anything. There are more rational of cars to own, but is that what we are here for, being rational? This is a vehicle that is about the trip and not the destination, even if that trip is just to the local shops.
Afterall, we buy with our heart (emotion) and defend our decision with our brain (logic). So buy what makes you excited, and all else will follow.

Regarding your comment on budget, etc....
I purchased mine with around 80k on clock, and have been very diligent with servicing and giving the ol'girl what ever she needs, instead of 'cutting corners'; she has never left me stranded.
To date (175k), I have replaced the fuel pump, a couple relays, a couple of swivel hubs seals, and the rear half-shaft seals....not to bad IMO.

Enjoy!

[Hooroo]

G'day Josh.
If your wife will be driving it and you think she is happy in something a little agricultural then 'yes', go for it.
If you think she will be happy I'm sure you'll love it. These vehicles get under your skin - they have real character.
This is over budget but there is a beaut for sale in Tamworth at the mo. 2013 model with 10k km - like new! And it has several after market bits on it. And it's the right colour. White! (You won't get stressed with a white one when it gets scratched on narrow tracks - and it will!)
2013 Land Rover Defender 110 13MY (http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Land-Rover-Defender-2013/AGC-AD-15244097/?Cr=36&sdmvc=1)
Buy one and enjoy!

[loneranger]

I test drove a Defender in 2010 when we were looking. We ended up getting a Dmax as we couldn't resolve the parking issue at the time cos of the carport height. I still remember that drive as the most fun I have had driving a car. I didn't take it off-road but from the seating position I imagine it will be a lot easier than my Dmax.

My wife drove it as well and had to have first go and for someone who doesn't like driving I reckon I'll need to hide the keys when we get our 110 wagon in June. ;)

Take one for a test drive and you will have a pretty good idea after that.

[superquag]

Land Rover ergonomics are in a differant universe to Jap stuff. Take up the suggestions of very long test-drives, both of you. You will either like or loathe it, and despite the normal advice of going with your first impressions, take some time to get yourself used to them. Or not...:o
People who find Holden seats "comfortable" will find it hard to adapt to the upright LR philosophy...

Compared to my old Pajero, the Classic steering wheel is way to close, and yet the accelerator is too far away. Not only, but the amount of travel to get full power is ridiculous.
Today, I almost prefer it... My 6'+ son complained of the same things...and now I can't get him out of MY car.:p

One of life's satisfactions is successfully fixing things....and LR can give you plenty of practice, usually replacing or adjusting things that the Japs have had sorted for decades. If you object to silly maintenance items, then stick with boring Jap cars.

Depending on where you want to go, you can get great off-road ability with a lot more comfort in a well-sorted D2a. - diesel. - And still have change out of your 35K

No matter how great a 'Deafener' is in the Ruff Stuff, most of your driving will be on smooth(ish) roads, where you may as well have comfort.

Test-drive some D2s as well.

[Pickles2]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts!

My budget is up to about $35000 so based on that i can get a fairly decent defender with some extras but ks from 80000 and up. I would like as little ks as possible but budget restricts my options a little. Thanks again!

300RWKW Ute? Not sure if you're asking what it meant but it has 300 rear wheel kilowatts of power 400+horse power.
I know exactly what you meant. Had lots of V8s before the Defender. The point I was trying to make, well what I have realized anyway, is that whilst I've had lots of powerful cars, & loved them, the Defender has shown me a whole new dimension......not that I wouldn't mind 300RWKW in a Defender,...now that would be "interesting"!
Cheers, Pickles.

[rangietragic]

A defender is more than just a car.It is a living thing with its own personality. If you buy one there will be times when you will say"BLOODY DEFENDERS" but most of the time you will love it if you accept that,being hand built,it WILL have a personality of its own.I've had my td5 130 for over 5 years and still love it,most of the time;)

[TimJones]

Very happy with my 2003 Defender 90. No major problems and the air-con is v-cold even out Longreach way.

[voltron]

People are probably sick of my story but long story short I went to buy a Jeep Wrangler and drove out with a new Defender. I think the reason for that was I could relate to the car on an emotional level through my childhood and my working life. Comfort and all the bells and whistles was initially what I was after but I spotted a Defender, drove it and was sold pretty much in an instant.

AFter researching the Defender there were some shortcomings you should acknowledge about the car before commiting to buying one and with a few minor problems I have had, I was ready for and sorted promptly without any fuss or stress. Its not perfect but I think thats what I like about it. My wife drives a BMW X6 and we always opt to go out driving in the defender if we go anywhere together. Thats just how awesome the car is.

If you have any doubts I would play it safe and stick with a Japanes make 4x4.

[Rustbucket]

Have had a bit of experience with Jap vehicles and all are quite competent but soulless. A Hilux is good example, easier to drive around town than a defender but thirsty and gutless when towing. The Defender will put a smile on your face because it has character and owners are like a club. Try to talk to a Hilux owner in a carpark about their vehicle!! John at OL Islington is a good guy, listen to him and seriously consider a Defender

[Silenceisgolden]

I agree with Superquag - if you don't like the Defender, don't give up on Landrovers. Try a D2 diesel and save a lot of money c/w $35,000 or buy a D3/D4 and know you are driving the best 4WD money can buy.

I have a D4 and a TD5 130 Defender. I find the Defender seats more comfortable on along trip, but it is bloody noisy - that's why I bought the D4.

In the past I have had a D1 and a D2 - both have loads of character, as does the D4. You can't help liking them........especially the Defenders.

[Witchdoctor]

I think if you need to be talked into buying a Defender, this beast is not for you!
A Defender is a 4x4 that one knows they need!

Cheers
David

[Dockstrada]

I own 3 Land Rovers now a 2003 4.4 petrol Range Rover a 2008 Puma 2.4 TDi 110 and a 2012 Range Rover TDV8. The Range Rovers are very comfy for sure, but once I jump back into the Defender I feel at home again, I could drive it all day and absolutely love it . Which one do i drive every day ? Jeremiah my Defender , why ? because he's special and makes me feel that way every time I grab the wheel .
You won't jump into the Defender and absolutely love it from the get go , it will take time.
There are day when Jeremiah upsets me , but all is forgiven quiet quickly as he's such a good friend.

[Cammo]

If you want a change of lifestyle - buy a defender.
If you want an appliance to suit your current lifestyle - buy something jap.
Because that is all they are - whitegoods to serve a purpose and be thrown out when they cease to do so. Not like landrovers - thats why some 70 odd percent of landrovers ever made are still on the go today.
Im 25. I've had 3 landrovers, still have 2 of them, and never have or never will have anything else.

[ctgiles84]

I always wanted a defender. I have had a D1 auto tdi, a V8 D2 & a td5 D2. I used to have an 80 series cruiser but now have come back to a D3 TDV6 HSE(wife's car) & have recently bought my dream car a td5 110 defender with a few extras. My suggestion is buy one. You will never look back. I love my 110. I have a fairly new hilux for a work ute and it is the most under powered & uncomfortable vehicle I have ever driven.

The defender is a simple but unique vehicle that will do everything you want it to do!

[Didge]

If you wanna be part of an elite set who have fun - buy the Defender
If you wanna be a commoner - buy a Jap 4X4
You know that ad for Colorbond roofing where the guy goes out the front door in his undies to get the paper and stops to admire his roof? Get a Deefer and feel the same love.

[noyakfat]

You know that ad for Colorbond roofing where the guy goes out the front door in his undies to get the paper and stops to admire his roof? Get a Deefer and feel the same love.

Good point... I must remember to alert the neighbours to avert their eyes from late March onwards... :p