Switching to Electronic Ignition

[Scallops]

Folks - I've just bought a kit to convert the little one from points and capacitor to electronic ignition......

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=151110972460&globalID=EBAY-AU

It's being fitted by my Sunnybank Autoelectrician bloke, who will set the timing perfectly once fitted and then I should be good to go.....and go.....and go.....!:)

Just seems hard to find quality capacitors and points these days. And I plan on using my Series 1 quite a bit, so being reliable is even more important, and it seems to me that most issues are electrical in nature.

I'll let you know how this progresses.

[Scallops]

Got my kit.....fitting next weekend...the defeat of Lucas, Prince of Darkness, is nigh.

[THE BOOGER]

They work well I converted my s111 2.6 much more reliable I cheated and got the whole distributor:D

[JDNSW]

I've thought about changing to electronic ignition - but using the 2a most days over the last twenty years, I have replaced the points twice, and the condenser once (and it did not need it!). I have had ignition problems - low tension wiring, high tension leads, spark plugs, and most recently, the coil - none of which would have been affected any differently if I had electronic ignition rather than conventional Kettering ignition. So I have decided to stick with the original! I think it is now running better than it ever has, suggesting the coil might have been below par for a long time.

John

[Scallops]

My new condenser lasted 3 weeks. My gap closed up by 5 degrees of dwell over 400km.....So my points, my condenser, are anything but reliable. Luck of the draw? Dunno. Time will tell regarding EI. But there again, if I have the same good run as you, John, what has been demonstrated? I reckon EI is a winner because it's set right and forget.

NOS condensers are useless - they have a lifespan apparently, but I have seen similar comment elsewhere....as long as you're going, I'm in favour.,

[S3ute]

Dan,

Hello from Harare.

Thinking of fitting EI to my own truck.

However, not wanting to sound like Eyore, but from reading into the topic there seems to be EI and EI.

Not all after the event EI units seem to enjoy an overwhelming chorus of support, including Accuspark which I believe are either Chinese or Indian manufactured. May be wrong there.

The UK manufactured units seem to be pretty good, so keen to share anyone's longer term experience with the various breeds.

Cheers,

Neil

[Scallops]

My Accuspark has no " made in " place ( just says UK on the box), but they are distributed by Watford Classics in England and Rob Roy Classic Road and Track in Victoria. The Australian rep reckons he's sold thousands of units, with a very low fail rate. He has run one in his MG for the past 9 years without issue. They have an excellent reputation actually. It comes with a 3 year warranty. I suspect they are made in China, but they need to be installed correctly, and suitability etc is coil dependant etc (low resistance coils can't be used).

I suspect those that have had issues were unaware of some of the more nuanced install details.

If if fails, putting back the points is easy, but items such as Petronics are essentially identical.

[Phil B]

I have 2 S3 2.25 petrol swb's both running on EI for 12 months now.
With one I bought the whole distributor with the EI fitted because the bearings in the old one were past it. The other recieved a kit. I did both myself. Both kits were from Ebay.
I am very pleased with the result. Better starting, better idle and smoother all round.

I would recommend this conversion on all 2.25's.

Regards,

Phil

[Scallops]

I have 2 S3 2.25 petrol swb's both running on EI for 12 months now.
With one I bought the whole distributor with the EI fitted because the bearings in the old one were past it. The other recieved a kit. I did both myself. Both kits were from Ebay.
I am very pleased with the result. Better starting, better idle and smoother all round.

I would recommend this conversion on all 2.25's.

Regards,

Phil

I know Accuspark make both the dissys and the kits.....who made your EI stuff, Phil?

[Bigbjorn]

Given my far less than satisfactory experiences with automotive electronics I would use a points distributor and a Jaycar electronic ignition kit that uses the points as the trigger. These can be installed so that WHEN (not if) the electronics fail, you swap around two wires and continue on your way on points.

[Killer]

I have a Lumenition kit in my Game, it was on it when my father in law bought the vehicle in 1982, no issues with it yet.

Cheers, Mick.

[Timj]

Given my far less than satisfactory experiences with automotive electronics I would use a points distributor and a Jaycar electronic ignition kit that uses the points as the trigger. These can be installed so that WHEN (not if) the electronics fail, you swap around two wires and continue on your way on points.

One of the main reasons for using electronic ignition is that the points wear on the contact point with the shaft and change their settings as they wear they also pit and wear on the actual points where the spark happens and reduce their efficiency over time. The EI that Dan has ordered is the same as what I put in mine quite a while ago and has no mechanical or electrical contact points to wear.

Cheers,

Tim.

[Scallops]

Set ups that use the points as a trigger are not utilising the Hall effect sensor type mechanism and my research indicates that units that don't (Hall effect type units effectively use a magnetic field to regulate output voltage) are less reliable. Likely in part at least, for all the reasons Tim puts above. Let's see how I go. I have faith!

[bee utey]

Given my far less than satisfactory experiences with automotive electronics I would use a points distributor and a Jaycar electronic ignition kit that uses the points as the trigger. These can be installed so that WHEN (not if) the electronics fail, you swap around two wires and continue on your way on points.

In the dim dark ages of the later 1970's and 80's I fitted many transistor assisted "Ultra" ignition boxes. They were quick to change back to points. Some still pass through my hands to this very day. However most owners didn't/wouldn't know how to check points to save their lives so I eventually gave up and went fully electronic. (I had one guy ring me and tell me he had checked his points and they were fine! What he had done was apply a dwell angle meter to the electronic output instead of getting out a feeler gauge! Moron!)The Crane kits worked well too, the optical pickup didn't require the removal of the points cam so you could in theory go back to points at any time. I never had one fail.

The trouble was though was of course that the vehicle owners were simply unable to manage the task and so the effort was basically wasted. For the last 20 odd years I have been going fully electronic instead, using manufacturer's OEM components where possible. While failures still occur, the cost of spares is now so low you just carry a set of electronic spares as needed. Any repair is then permanent and doesn't need a fiddle later. It's the reasoning behind my Lucas module replacements, a coil, Bosch module and spare pickup pack quite tightly.

[Phil B]

Accuspark I think.
I will check tonight.

[Scallops]

In the dim dark ages of the later 1970's and 80's I fitted many transistor assisted "Ultra" ignition boxes. They were quick to change back to points. Some still pass through my hands to this very day. However most owners didn't/wouldn't know how to check points to save their lives so I eventually gave up and went fully electronic. (I had one guy ring me and tell me he had checked his points and they were fine! What he had done was apply a dwell angle meter to the electronic output instead of getting out a feeler gauge! Moron!)The Crane kits worked well too, the optical pickup didn't require the removal of the points cam so you could in theory go back to points at any time. I never had one fail.

The trouble was though was of course that the vehicle owners were simply unable to manage the task and so the effort was basically wasted. For the last 20 odd years I have been going fully electronic instead, using manufacturer's OEM components where possible. While failures still occur, the cost of spares is now so low you just carry a set of electronic spares as needed. Any repair is then permanent and doesn't need a fiddle later. It's the reasoning behind my Lucas module replacements, a coil, Bosch module and spare pickup pack quite tightly.

Was thinking of chucking an entire extra module under the seat as a spare....at $50.00, why not?

[Scallops]

Well, now I'm really ****ed off.

So, I take the kit to 'ol mate the auto-electrician to fit for me. I had 2 kits in the car, because I had ordered one for a DM2 dissy, thinking that was what I'd need. My original dissy is a DM2....my new dissy will be a DM2, right? Well, my new dissy from Craddocks is actually a 25D, which I hadn't realised until earlier this week....so I reordered a kit for this type of dissy - now I have 2 kits, and was going to return the DM2 version for a full refund.

Anyhow, the 25D kit is the right one, but we find the magnet part that slides onto the rotor shaft is too small a diameter for my shaft???? I ring the kit's seller - he tells me all 25D's have a 16.5mm diameter shaft and if not it'll be close enough if we just push it on. Well, my shaft is 17.5mm diameter and it simply won't fit. To make things worse, we tried filing the magnet to make it fit....got to bare metal and decided that might make it fail if it were used. It would still not go onto the rotor shaft.

But things got worse - 'ol mate opened the dm2 kit to try it's magnet - it was exactly the same. Thing is, the seller had asked me if I'd opened either kit when I asked about returning them. Needless to say, when I spoke to the seller of the kits, I was even more ****ed off to have it confirmed that he wouldn't accept returns if they had been opened. So basically, no kit will fit my distributor because the bloody shaft is too large a diameter.

So now I have 2 electronic ignition kits - 1 for a DM2 that is in perfect order, and a 25D kit perfect except for the magnet. And a ****e quality copy of a 25D that is so far out of tolerance it's a joke.

I rang fair trading - they confirmed that if there were nothing wrong with the kit, then the seller is within his rights to not acceprt it back opened. I was quite surprised by that, but there you go. I have sent Craddocks an email too, explaining the issue with the dissy, and will try to get them to accept it back and return my money. The implications are that when using points, a feeler gauge will set an incorrect dwell angle because the increased diameter of the rotating shaft will result in slower times per rotation. The shaft diameter within a class of distributor should be the same.

I've decided to send an email to simonbbc and explain this sorry tale, and get him to send me a replacement electronic distributor to replace my original DM2. IF anyone has a DM2 or a 25D dissy in their Landy, and would like to try EI, let me know and you can try the kit. I have enough parts between the 2 kits to set up either distributor properly and with unmolested parts.

It's no good to me, so someone might as well get the benefit of my $100.00 down the drain.

[Timj]

Damn, that's no good. Is that what you tried to ring me about this morning? I have been off at meetings etc all day and didn't get home till after 7 so haven't had a chance to call you back.

Why would they make a dizzy with a different shaft size? Can understand the guy not wanting to take the kits back though they often will if the contents are all there as well as the packaging and have obviously not been used.

Craddocks are usually pretty good so worth a try but it does depend who they got them from.

Cheers,

Tim.

[Scallops]

Damn, that's no good. Is that what you tried to ring me about this morning? I have been off at meetings etc all day and didn't get home till after 7 so haven't had a chance to call you back.

Why would they make a dizzy with a different shaft size? Can understand the guy not wanting to take the kits back though they often will if the contents are all there as well as the packaging and have obviously not been used.

Craddocks are usually pretty good so worth a try but it does depend who they got them from.

Cheers,

Tim.

G'day Tim - yeah! Thought I'd call you before I stabbed myself in the neck with a plastic fork I found at the railway station.....:D

Things have got somewhat better. Craddocks have acknowledged the dissy they sent me is crap....and I'm getting my dosh back - minus my freight cost.

Meanwhile, I spoke to Inc. tonight who swears by the high energy dissy/low resistance coil combo made by Powerspark.....Pommy manufacture. I'm talking to simonbbc about it.....looking at getting a Powerspark high energy 25D electronic dissy with side exit cap, coupled with a low resistance coil. He's chucking in a set of black leads - which will look better than than the blue silicon jobbies I have now. I can overhaul my original DM2 (with points + condenser) in my own time, keeping too my current coil, and have a full conventional backup if ever the need arises.

Unlike some commentators, most people I trust assure me that this happening will simply never occur. Can only hope so! :)

I just can't understand why people are not jumping at electronic ignition. So - I'm going to offer in the AULRO markets a full Electronic ignition kit suitable for either a DM2 or 25D dissy for $40.00 - it'll come with a 2nd Hall sensor mech free - that's $15.00 less than you can get anywhere else (plus a second "brain") and it's completely new, unmolested, and good to go....any club members want it? I'll throw in a rice cooker free! :D

[S3ute]

Dan,

Hello from Johannesburg - having a beer or two getting ready for the long traverse home.

I am interested in your kits if they will fit my truck. It has a 2.25l - supposedly 1969 vintage.

Get home tomorrow, but almost immediately head back across to Perth for the week.

Cheers,

Neil

[Scallops]

Dan,



Hello from Johannesburg - having a beer or two getting ready for the long traverse home.



I am interested in your kits if they will fit my truck. It has a 2.25l - supposedly 1969 vintage.



Get home tomorrow, but almost immediately head back across to Perth for the week.



Cheers,



Neil



Hello Neil,



You might have a 25D dissy being a '69 model and if so it's yours - as above, I can supply everything required, in perfect as new condition. If you have a 45D dissy, the output to the low voltage wire is different. Let me know what you have otherwise I'll put it in the AULRO market area. :)



You need a rice cooker? :D

The semi circle cutout in the side of the dissy cap is what you're looking for....if your cap looks like this, then you have a 25D and the kit will work. (also works with side exit caps)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/143.jpg

[Scallops]

So I now have my solution in the mail.......

1 X Powerspark High Energy electronic 25D dissy with curve to suit my Land Rover and side exit cap.

1 X Lucas DLB198 high energy electronic ignition coil

1 X Land Rover High quality silicon black 8mm HT leads .

Awesome! simonbbc is great to deal with :BigThumb:

[S3ute]

Hello Neil,



You might have a 25D dissy being a '69 model and if so it's yours - as above, I can supply everything required, in perfect as new condition. If you have a 45D dissy, the output to the low voltage wire is different. Let me know what you have otherwise I'll put it in the AULRO market area. :)



You need a rice cooker? :D

The semi circle cutout in the side of the dissy cap is what you're looking for....if your cap looks like this, then you have a 25D and the kit will work. (also works with side exit caps)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/143.jpg

Hello again from Sydney airport.

I will check out the cap tomorrow - really useful photo. I had intended to order an EI unit over the months but didn't know what distributor was is the truck (S3 but supposedly a S2A motor).

Cheers,

Neil

[S3ute]

You need a rice cooker? :D



Dan,

Hello again.

Forgot to answer this critical question.....

The Aldi unit we bought for a trifling sum a few years back is still offering a sterling service.

Cheers,

Neil

[Scallops]

Dan,



Hello again.



Forgot to answer this critical question.....



The Aldi unit we bought for a trifling sum a few years back is still offering a sterling service.



Cheers,



Neil


Ha ha, No worries. If my kit doesn't fit your dissy I'll throw it in the deal in the AULRO markets. BTW - simonbbc has sent me a replacement magnet ring so I now have 2 full kits for sale - one for a DM2, and one for a 25D. But you have first option on either.

[Homestar]

Given my far less than satisfactory experiences with automotive electronics I would use a points distributor and a Jaycar electronic ignition kit that uses the points as the trigger. These can be installed so that WHEN (not if) the electronics fail, you swap around two wires and continue on your way on points.

As pointed out, it's very easy and cheap to carry a few spares. Not that I've needed them, but I carry spares for any electrical item that can stop the 101. That is a fuel pump, coil, ignition amp and reluctor ring. Cheap insurance that will have me back on the road in minutes if they ever fail. You also gain easier starting, smoother running, etc by the nice fat consistent spark. :)

[S3ute]

Hello Neil,


The semi circle cutout in the side of the dissy cap is what you're looking for....if your cap looks like this, then you have a 25D and the kit will work. (also works with side exit caps)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/143.jpg

Dan,

Hello,

My distributor cap does not have a cut out section as per the photo - it does say Lucas, Made in England.

Not sure what model it actually is. The truck's heritage has always been a bit vague to me - it was advertised as being Jan 74, turned out that the chassis and body are September 75, the gearbox is Series 3 but the engine number suggests the block comes from a 1969 2A....... Who knows where the distributor came from.....

So, not sure your bits are the right ones or not. Main reason why I had not previously ordered a kit.

Cheers,

Neil

[Scallops]

Dan,



Hello,



My distributor cap does not have a cut out section as per the photo - it does say Lucas, Made in England.



Not sure what model it actually is. The truck's heritage has always been a bit vague to me - it was advertised as being Jan 74, turned out that the chassis and body are September 75, the gearbox is Series 3 but the engine number suggests the block comes from a 1969 2A....... Who knows where the distributor came from.....



So, not sure your bits are the right ones or not. Main reason why I had not previously ordered a kit.







Cheers,



Neil





Google Lucas 45D - likely be one of them I'd say. That's cool - I'll sell them via AULRO markets....

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/132.jpg

[S3ute]

Google Lucas 45D - likely be one of them I'd say. That's cool - I'll sell them via AULRO markets....

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/132.jpg

Dan,

Hello again.

Yes, that is just what I did earlier on this morning and came to the conclusion that it is indeed fitted with a Lucas 45D unit.

Cheers,

Neil

[wrinklearthur]

Will the standard side entry cap fit the electronic distributor, as nothing will cause you more grief than the sparkplug leads rubbing under the bonnet on a wet day?

That's why I changed my cap to the original side entry style, but I am still running a standard distributor.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/130.jpg
.

[Scallops]

Will the standard side entry cap fit the electronic distributor, as nothing will cause you more grief than the sparkplug leads rubbing under the bonnet on a wet day?

That's why I changed my cap to the original side entry style, but I am still running a standard distributor.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/130.jpg
.

The complete electronic distributor I have ordered is coming with a side exit cap. You can request either.

[S3ute]

Hello again.

As noted in an earlier post, I have been musing over fitting an electronic ignition kit into the distributor of my 2.25P ute. Seems to be all the go.

A quick question re the coil please.

Lucas make a range of sports coils which may or may not come as part of the conversion - seems like changing to a higher output coil might a worthwhile upgrade while changing over the distributor kit. However, I am not an auto electrician and am a bit confused on what is the best option.

Three coils in particular seem to commonly pop up in the topic of conversions - viz DBL105, DBL110 and DBL198.

From my limited reading and web site checking the DBL105 is a commonly listed conversion option, but various sites (e.g. Simonbbc) rate it as incompatible with the Land Rover 2.25P motor, while others suggest that it is OK. DBL198 is also listed as incompatible on the same sites. DBL110 is listed as compatible.

DBL105 is apparently suited for non-ballast ignition systems while DBL110 is for ballast systems. Barely grasp the subtleties of the difference between these systems, something to do with the wiring of the ignition coil and the starting relay and how much voltage goes to the coil after the engine starts, but presume the Land Rover is either one or t'other.

My question is which coil is really suited to the 2.25P motor when it has (e.g.) an Accuspark or Powerspark module fitted to the distributor (Lucas 45D)?

Incidentally, is there a difference between a 45D and 45D4 distributor (or is that just a typo in one of the eBay electronic ignition sites)?

Cheers,

Neil

[incisor]

depends on the kit you install

i fitted the simonbbc sport dissy which require a coil below 1.4ohms

Land Rover 2.0, 2.25, 2.5 High Energy 25D Distributor with Powermax Red Rotor Arm [D11] - £59.99 : Electronic Ignition, Home of the Powerspark electronic ignition and electronic distributor (http://www.simonbbc.com/distributors/4cyl-high-energy/land-rover-2.0-2.25-2.5-high-energy-25d-distributor-with-powermax-red-rotor-arm)

i fitted a mallory sports coil very similar to this

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/maa-30440

.5 ohm

is goodly :p

throws spark many inches so you need to be aware... or it tickles...

i use high quality bosch plugs

[Scallops]

If you just fit a kit to your original distributor, you don't need a new coil, Neil. As Inc says, a low resistance coil is only required when replacing your points dissy with a "high energy" electronic 45D distributor.

A kit will suffice with your current coil. People get the coil/full electronic dissy option if their original dissy is crapped out.

[S3ute]

Hello again from Brisbane.

Sounds like a worthy topic to pursue over a beer or two.............

Cheers,

Neil

[S3ute]

Hello again,

Returning to an earlier query - what, if anything, is the difference between a 45D and a 45D4 distributor?

While I'm at it - ballast vs non-ballast ignition?

Could be handy when I'm changing the topic with Mrs S3ute. "Yes, I know I forgot to feed the cat, but did you know the difference between.....".

Cheers,

Neil

[JDNSW]

Can't help with the 45D vs 45D4.

Ballast ignition has a coil designed to operate from 8volts, and has a resistor, referred to as a ballast resistor (which may be a resistive wire rather than a discrete resistor) between the coil and the ignition switch to drop the voltage from 12v to 8v. There is also usually an extra contact in the starter solenoid to supply voltage to the coil direct from the battery while the starter is operating - the idea is to compensate for the voltage drop caused by the starter, or to provide a boosted spark for starting. This was not used on any Series Landrovers (not sure about the V8).

Using an 8v coil designed for a ballast resistor without one will result in a 50% higher current, almost certainly resulting in overheating and eventual failure of the coil, and a short life for the contact set. Using a 12v coil with a ballast resistor will usually result in poor starting and hard to diagnose ignition problems.

The system was originally devised for 6v electrical systems, where the current draw when starting is much higher, and the often coupled with side valve engines that are a bit hard to start anyway. Usually only used with 12v on large engines or cars with inadequate battery capacity.

John

[Scallops]

The 45D4 designation is simply a reference to the distributor being for a 4 cylinder engine. Often electronic dissy replacements will use that type of designation to distinguish between the "same" dissy used in a 6 or 8 cylinder vehicle.

So if you are looking for the right kit, one for a 45D4 would be right.....as would any complete dissy listed as a 45D4.

[Scallops]

Fitted my Powerspark High Energy Distributor and low resistance coil yesterday....amazed that even I could do it.

Hit the start button - vehicle started with "enthusiasm".....took her for a drive - wow!:)

The difference is very noticable. Very responsive, and plenty of power because setting the timing is so easy with an electronic distributor. Happy to be rid of crappy Indian points and condensers. It's very easy to make this switch. When the penny finally drops for the rest of you (happens when your capaciter fails), let me know as I have a full convertion kit (DM2 or 25D) at a bargain price for the first lucky (and wise) soul. ;)

[Scallops]

Just an update - A report on my new ignition system, which includes a British made Powerspark High Energy Electronic distributor and Lucas low resistance coil, with new HT leads in period finish...... electronic ignition is simply brilliant. Matilda is performing in so many areas, so much better. Idling stability, starting ease, power delivery, fuel consumption.

Electronic ignition is simply the best upgrade you can make for an old vehicle. I also carry a spare module that can be easily fitted into the dissy in the unlikely event of failure (plus a brand new traditional dissy too!).

Why bother with setting point gaps, and changing condensors any more? My points changed their gap over a period of a month. Why bother? Having used both, I say it's madness not to make this conversion.