And Now, Bye Bye Toyota

[pop058]

Toyota to cease manufacturing by 2017 | Sky News Australia (http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=949055&cid=BP_RSS_TOPSTORIES_1_Toyotatoceasemanufacturing by2017_100214)

[amtravic1]

Its a pity. I wonder if they would have stayed if they had got the agreement with the unions.

[Firefish]

Very sad. However, we have the highest labour costs in the world. Unless we can offer benefits to offset these costs we are going to keep losing manufacturing to overseas.

[richard4u2]

every Australian who bought a car that was made overseas are the problem

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Its OK the Australian century died at the end of the 20th century, we are becoming a third World economy, sacrificed on the alter of unfettered one way free trade.

In future we will only export things we dig out of the ground, a few things we grow that can be harvested by machine and of course we will export jobs. Even our once great universities are being eclipsed by universities in countries whose academics we and the west educated.

Glad I don't have kids because we are leaving them with a nation in economic decline.

[Firefish]

Glad I don't have kids because we are leaving them with a nation in economic decline.

Sadly, I often have similar sentiments...

[Chucaro]

Its OK the Australian century died at the end of the 20th century, we are becoming a third World economy, sacrificed on the alter of unfettered one way free trade.

In future we will only export things we dig out of the ground, a few things we grow that can be harvested by machine and of course we will export jobs. Even our once great universities are being eclipsed by universities in countries whose academics we and the west educated.

Glad I don't have kids because we are leaving them with a nation in economic decline.

I agree with you but be aware the the so call 3rd world countries have manufacturing industry and become emerged economies.
I am not sure were Australia will be but will not surprise me that we will come another Spain if we are not careful.

[Michael2]

every Australian who bought a car that was made overseas are the problem

That's a bit rich on a Land Rover forum.

Foreign cars contributed to the local economy by paying their value over in Tax.

Local cars cost the tax payer their value in subsidies and tax breaks.

Just let people drive what they want to drive. So if you're a manufacturer, make what people want. I think there was a Simpsons episode about this.

:DThe above has been said with a degree of humour, let's not make this political.:D

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Are we like Rome? The empire was in decline but the citizens were so full of Rome's greatness and transfixed on the gladitorial games in the Coliseum they didn't see the Vandals and Hun on the horizon.

At times I feel that we are similarly transfixed on sport, NYE fireworks and our holidays that we don't see our own decline.

[amtravic1]

That's a bit rich on a Land Rover forum.

Foreign cars contributed to the local economy by paying their value over in Tax.

Local cars cost the tax payer their value in subsidies and tax breaks.

Just let people drive what they want to drive. So if you're a manufacturer, make what people want. I think there was a Simpsons episode about this.

:DThe above has been said with a degree of humour, let's not make this political.:D

It seems to me that the Australian manafacturers have not made cars people want for some time, as reflected in the poor sales. It is still a shame that we are loosing those industries which employ many people.

[mikehzz]

Let's try a glass half full approach? These emerging economies with lower wages and lower standards of living will eventually even out up on our level. In the mean time, we get the opportunity to figure out how we are going to survive the fact we are temporarily priced out. I'm sure there is a think tank think tanking our strategy as we speak. When everything does eventually become a level playing field again, we will have had many years head start on them because we will take advantage of this golden opportunity. Meanwhile our resources will prop us up for a while. We can also bask in the glory of having the world's richest sheila. How good is that? I feel positively optimistic now....as long as global warming is a hoax of course...and that Fukishima won't destroy humanity....:D

[Lotz-A-Landies]

IMHO that wrong car propaganda is a furphy. Most of the model decisions have not been made by the local subsidiaries but by the major manufacturers in their overseas head offices.

Why tool up for a small car to produce a few thousand cars a year in Australia when you can tool up for hundreds of thousands of cars and supply the World from a single low cost/low benefit/low tax country and achieve economies of scale.

We missed the boat when the CSIRO developed manufacturing robots and we failed to capitalise on them in our local automotive production. Too much resistance to their introduction and not enough investment foresight.

We produce food but virtually don't process it here, we mine minerals but don't refine it here and soon the same with oil. We lack value adding because our labour already adds too much cost in the initial production. Yes we also have environmental legislation that prevents polluting industries such as smelters remaining in coutry when they can move to an emerging economy who don't have the same greenhouse restrictions or environmental protections.

[mikehzz]

You said the magic word....robots. That will put those eager third worlders back in their place. Australians should be sitting on beaches controlling a mindless workforce via Australian manufactured tablets..the iAussie seems appropriate. It's also about time we invented food replicators ala Star Trek. These are the first thoughts of my think tank. If someone could just run with them please?

[Cobber]

I've often said without fleet sales Toyota would have been gone a long time ago. Holden were in the same boat. In Toyotas case the big money earners are Landcruisers and Hiluxs to the mining/construction industry due mostly to vehicle turn over ... both of which are made overseas.

The reality is this country needs industry to survive but successive governments have done nothing to help. Bail outs aren't the answer. Long term support would not only likely cost less but provide confidence but probably cost less in the long run. The other side of that I guess is which industries get aid and which don't, and where does it come from? We all pay the price eventually. :( that said, I can't imagine many thousands joining the dole queue is going to be particularly cost effective either ...


We had it good for a while but this country needs a big kick in the arse. People won't like it because it seems we want everything for free in the 21st century (:mad: ) but if something isn't done we are only setting ourselves up for failure. Nails ... Coffin ... Etc :(

[DT-P38]

Its OK the Australian century died at the end of the 20th century, we are becoming a third World economy, sacrificed on the alter of unfettered one way free trade.

In future we will only export things we dig out of the ground, a few things we grow that can be harvested by machine and of course we will export jobs.


My thoughts exactly.

I reckon we need to farm more and get that top end food bowl going. Dam the crap out of everything like the Ord scheme. Then start to feed the Indians and the Chinese when they run out of farmland. While we're at it stiff them silly with export incentives for our GM producers. But keep all the nice safe organic stuff for us. Employ our blue collar people in big beautiful new climate controlled sheds sprouting seedlings and grafting in growth boosting modified clone plants.

People always gotta eat. The rest is fluff.

[manic]

Let's try a glass half full approach? These emerging economies with lower wages and lower standards of living will eventually even out up on our level. In the mean time, we get the opportunity to figure out how we are going to survive the fact we are temporarily priced out. I'm sure there is a think tank think tanking our strategy as we speak. When everything does eventually become a level playing field again, we will have had many years head start on them because we will take advantage of this golden opportunity. Meanwhile our resources will prop us up for a while. We can also bask in the glory of having the world's richest sheila. How good is that? I feel positively optimistic now....as long as global warming is a hoax of course...and that Fukishima won't destroy humanity....:D

aahh optimism , how refreshing.

Australia has done boom busts before. The opportunity to get super rich is taken by a fortunate few. When the boom is over, they get to move on and make more money whilst those with mortgages get to chew on dust.

It just amazes me that the majority seem almost happy to let a small bunch of ****s run off with all the money.

[sheerluck]

every Australian who bought a car that was made overseas are the problem

Interesting thought. So every Aussie should own a Falcodore, regardless of what their actual needs are.

[bob10]

Let's think outside the norm., why don't we make bicycles & motorbikes, perhaps a jeepny type thing, for Asia? Make it a rule you can only drive such a thing in our big cities? Perhaps electric models, recharge them at work?


Why not, [except for massive egos, who have to be seen in the " right ' vehicle. Bob

[Mick_Marsh]

Interesting thought. So every Aussie should own a Falcodore, regardless of what their actual needs are.
I've just spent four days of the last five driving around in a Territory towing a tandem full of stuff doing the "AULRO Courier" thing. I traveled 3000km. Petrol consumption averaged (acording to the trip computer) 14.3l/100km. Really enjoyed the drive. It is a great vehicle. Every Aussie family should have one. And a Commodore.
The rest are toys or rubbish or both.

[Ean Austral]

My thoughts exactly.

I reckon we need to farm more and get that top end food bowl going. Dam the crap out of everything like the Ord scheme. Then start to feed the Indians and the Chinese when they run out of farmland. While we're at it stiff them silly with export incentives for our GM producers. But keep all the nice safe organic stuff for us. Employ our blue collar people in big beautiful new climate controlled sheds sprouting seedlings and grafting in growth boosting modified clone plants.

People always gotta eat. The rest is fluff.


That is of course assuming all our prime land hasn't already been bought by overseas investers..


Cheers Ean

[MR LR]

If they made cars people wanted, there would have been no issue, I just bought an XR6 Falcon to have as a daily driver, so my comment is not biased, not many people want a big Aussie 6 or 8.

The cars that private consumers are buying are all made offshore now anyway, the unions and companies should stop whingeing, it's their **** up, the product has been wrong for 20 years.

Cheers
Will

[LandyAndy]

I've just spent four days of the last five driving around in a Territory towing a tandem full of stuff doing the "AULRO Courier" thing. I traveled 3000km. Petrol consumption averaged (acording to the trip computer) 14.3l/100km. Really enjoyed the drive. It is a great vehicle. Every Aussie family should have one. And a Commodore.
The rest are toys or rubbish or both.
Ive got a Turbo Territory Mick.Only driven it twice,no more than 200km.Probably a good thing as my D2 is strong enough,that thing is a licence destroyer.LOVERLY VEHICLE.
Andrew

[landy]

every Australian who bought a car that was made overseas are the problem

And where was your land rover made?:cool:

Just saying!

[LandyAndy]

If they made cars people wanted, there would have been no issue, I just bought an XR6 Falcon to have as a daily driver, so my comment is not biased, not many people want a big Aussie 6 or 8.

The cars that private consumers are buying are all made offshore now anyway, the unions and companies should stop whingeing, it's their **** up, the product has been wrong for 20 years.

Cheers
Will

We STRONGLY encouraged and HELPED our boy buy a BA XR6,his first car.We are 160km from the city where he attends university.GREAT open road car,very economical and cheap on parts.Strong vehicle if a collision with a roo or buz box occurs.
He has paid off what we put in already.
Andrew

[Lotz-A-Landies]

If they made cars people wanted, there would have been no issue, I just bought an XR6 Falcon to have as a daily driver, so my comment is not biased, not many people want a big Aussie 6 or 8.

The cars that private consumers are buying are all made offshore now anyway, the unions and companies should stop whingeing, it's their **** up, the product has been wrong for 20 years.

Cheers
WillWill, its still a furphy, who made the decision to continue to make the Falcon and not a Fiesta, you can bet that decision was made in Dearborn Michigan and not Geelong Victoria.

Max Yasuda CEO of Toyota, today said that to have economies of scale an automotive plant needs to make hundreds of thousands of cars a year and Australian plants come no where near that figure, add to that Toyota lost at least $2,500 on every Camry it exported to the Middle East. With less than 100K cars a year and input costs in Au at least twice as expensive as plants in Europe none of the Au manufacturers could survive. (BTW the Australian taxpayer subsidised every Toyota worker at $75,000 per year and Holden workers at $50K.)

The question remains, that if we want to compete with Thai or Chinese workers for wages and conditions then we can have car, washing machine or food processing plants.

Diana

[LandyAndy]

Im pretty good at rubbing my crystal balls!!!!!!
When the dust settles I bet we still get a Dunnydoor and Falcoon,made in China or the Phillipines etc.Lets just see.
Andrew

[Mick_Marsh]

The Territory I was driving was John's. He has friends from America who visit. ( He visits them as well.) When these Americans visit, he takes them around the place in his Territory. They comment on what a nice car it is and how well such a car would do over in the good ole US of A.

[roverrescue]

People always gotta eat. The rest is fluff.

I think yall missed it in the commode falcoon wrangling
(ps we own a veesix commode wagon just to put in some credentials)

If you dont eat you dont ****
If you dont **** you die

We need to get real and realise that the "emerging market" is not ID-gismoid-Irrific-upskilling-matrixification
BUT IT IS SUPPLYING THE # BILLION NORTHERNERS WITH FOOD

we have dirt

we have water

we should use it rather than **** our rocks away at 2 cents a giga-tonne


red-wine enhanced Steve matrix enabled over and out.

[2stroke]

The question remains, that if we want to compete with Thai or Chinese workers for wages and conditions then we can have car, washing machine or food processing plants.

Diana
Though we won't be able to afford the products we manufacture, just like the Thai and Chinese workers.

[Chucaro]

Im pretty good at rubbing my crystal balls!!!!!!
When the dust settles I bet we still get a Dunnydoor and Falcoon,made in China or the Phillipines etc.Lets just see.
Andrew

With the new free trade agreement signed with Korea their goods enter Australia without paying one single cent in tariffs.
China in 2011/12 provided one billon dollars in subsides for the car industry upsetting USA government and on the top of that they keep their currency artificially low.
I cannot say any more, the rest is stuff for the Cantina :)

[460cixy]

Im pretty good at rubbing my crystal balls!!!!!!
When the dust settles I bet we still get a Dunnydoor and Falcoon,made in China or the Phillipines etc.Lets just see.
Andrew

Yup I can foresee a chingadoor on the horizon

[Ean Austral]

Just watched Ross Greenwoods take on the car industry in Australia, and he compared a Toyota Camry cost new in USA , Canada , and here.


Guess what....It cost $10,000 more to buy one here than over there.. WHY..


Its called TAX. been imposed for years... Yep we live in the lucky country




Cheers Ean

[jx2mad]

I heard on tv today that Australia day being on a Thursday obviously meant that Friday was a normal work day. Well guess what, Toyota had 40% absent on the Friday!.. where does all this stop?

[Chucaro]

I heard on tv today that Australia day being on a Thursday obviously meant that Friday was a normal work day. Well guess what, Toyota had 40% absent on the Friday!.. where does all this stop?

Loyalty have to work both ways, perhaps the workers have learned by their mates in Holden that companies do not give a dam about them ?
Just wonder how much absenteeism was among management..............

[MR LR]

I heard on tv today that Australia day being on a Thursday obviously meant that Friday was a normal work day. Well guess what, Toyota had 40% absent on the Friday!.. where does all this stop?
The last time I checked Australia Day this year was a Sunday and Monday was a public holiday. jussayin...

[incisor]

The last time I checked Australia Day this year was a Sunday and Monday was a public holiday. jussayin...

gold!

[jx2mad]

DONG! HIT ME ON THE HEAD. I don't know why they reported that then.:):)

[sheerluck]

DONG! HIT ME ON THE HEAD. I don't know why they reported that then.:):)

Last time Australia Day was on a Thursday was in 2012. Perhaps you misheard the year?

[jx2mad]

Probably that was it.

[Mick_Marsh]

One of the companies I worked for told us to take the Monday before cup day off. Staff took annual leave Casuals and contractors weren't paid. The company saved heaps on the power bill.

[SBD4]

Loyalty have to work both ways, perhaps the workers have learned by their mates in Holden that companies do not give a dam about them ?
Just wonder how much absenteeism was among management..............

Lets not do the us and them spin. There was no mention of blue collar vs white collar absenteeism just that a lot of people took a sickie. :)

Who ever they are, they should do the right thing and take leave instead of chucking a sickie. Sick leave is not a leave entitlement, you only get it if you're sick. It costs businesses a stack when sick leave is taken and when slackers decide to use it as holiday leave then it is even worse. While the employee (white or blue) does this, the normal leave is still on the books for the business and must be provisioned on the balance sheet ie cash in bank to cover it. Add to that loss of productivity etc and the costs go up further and before you know it the business owners are wondering why they can't make it work.

This is a symptom of what is wrong with the mentality towards work. Some work is crap and some work better than crap - just get on and do it properly and work your way to better opportunities. While a lots of people do the right thing, 30% of the work force chucking a sickie is unsustainable. These people need to look over their shoulder a little more at who is looking to take their job. It's the worker in India, China or Korea. Work ethic is key!


some articles:
An extra 170,000 people call in sick after Australia Day (http://www.afr.com/p/national/an_extra_people_call_in_sick_after_YhJlcssW2RpjUoy ftBhnMM)
Sick and tired of absenteeism (http://www.smh.com.au/small-business/blogs/work-in-progress/sick-and-tired-of-absenteeism-20120217-1tcdy.html)

[Chucaro]

Lets not do the us and them spin. There was no mention of blue collar vs white collar absenteeism just that a lot of people took a sickie. :)

Who ever they are, they should do the right thing and take leave instead of chucking a sickie. .................................................. ...

Note that I mentioned management only, not the administrative workers.
Regarding sickies I agree with you, they should loose that day plus payment for the public holiday.
Sick days are to help those that are sick not to have long weekends.

[incisor]

in my day you had to be there at least 4 hours before and after a public holiday to get paid for it...

[bob10]

Note that I mentioned management only, not the administrative workers.
Regarding sickies I agree with you, they should loose that day plus payment for the public holiday.
Sick days are to help those that are sick not to have long weekends.


As much as I don't want to get into this merry go round of I said you said, ad finitum, if workers were allowed to convert their sickies on retirement, to either their long service , or leave credits, and if they could carry over sick leave benefits from job to job, [ but only access previous benefits at retirement, ] that would be an incentive to stay at work. Could be part of an enterprise bargain. Bob

[incisor]

As much as I don't want to get into this merry go round of I said you said, ad finitum, if workers were allowed to convert their sickies on retirement, to either their long service , or leave credits, and if they could carry over sick leave benefits from job to job, [ but only access previous benefits at retirement, ] that would be an incentive to stay at work. Could be part of an enterprise bargain. Bob

you used to be able to preserve up to 7 weeks of them before they vanished into the ether, what is it these days?

[LandyAndy]

Heard on the wirless today that now tojo have bailed out it means there is no reason for a tax on ANY imported vehicle into awestralia.
Makes our Landys 5% cheaper:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:: cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
Andrew

[Mick_Marsh]

Heard on the wirless today that now tojo have bailed out it means there is no reason for a tax on ANY imported vehicle into awestralia.
Makes our Landys 5% cheaper:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:: cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
Andrew
Pity I'm not earning the cash to buy one.

[ADMIRAL]

As much as I don't want to get into this merry go round of I said you said, ad finitum, if workers were allowed to convert their sickies on retirement, to either their long service , or leave credits, and if they could carry over sick leave benefits from job to job, [ but only access previous benefits at retirement, ] that would be an incentive to stay at work. Could be part of an enterprise bargain. Bob

Before going any further with the debate on that tack, perhaps have a look at why the 3 major US manufacturers got into so much trouble. They were paying benefits for workers who had been out of the industry for decades.

[Ranga]

Just watched Ross Greenwoods take on the car industry in Australia, and he compared a Toyota Camry cost new in USA , Canada , and here.


Guess what....It cost $10,000 more to buy one here than over there.. WHY..


Its called TAX. been imposed for years... Yep we live in the lucky country




Cheers Ean

Then again, I read recently about a guy in the US getting charged $55k for an emergency appendectomy! Swings and round-abouts maybe...

[pannawonica]

I heard. On the telly today that the average car worker was on 50k Shock horror and the unions where to blame. If true I would like to know what they consider a fair amount ! ;)

[Michael2]

I think sick leave can be used for mental health.

If you found out your employer was closing down soon, you might feel a bit dejected.

I suppose the other option would be to go to work and fill out a work cover form for work related stress, I've coined the term "industrial despondency" - that way you don't lose your sick leave entitlement.:wasntme:

I think it's better for everyone if we just let the guys take a sickie, given the bad news they just got. It's not a holiday, it's a stress (sick) day.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I heard. On the telly today that the average car worker was on 50k Shock horror and the unions where to blame. If true I would like to know what they consider a fair amount ! ;)A Chinese auto worker earns between $US2 and $US6 per hour.

Would Australian automotive workers get out of bed for that sort of money?

After 2017 they won't have to get ot of bed! The Chinese will have all their jobs.

[Firefish]

Australia’s huge manufacturing labour costs | | MacroBusiness (http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2014/01/australias-huge-manufacturing-labour-costs/)

Some scary figures on Manufacturing. Portrait of a dying industry.

[rangietragic]

Heard on the wirless today that now tojo have bailed out it means there is no reason for a tax on ANY imported vehicle into awestralia.
Makes our Landys 5% cheaper:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:: cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
Andrew
Like THATS going to happen:Rolling:

[LandyAndy]

Pity I'm not earning the cash to buy one.

Me neither Mick.
Saw a nice D4 online,Red with the black kit.Looks a million bucks,they only want $114000 for it.
See If my Lotto Godz look after me this weekend.
Andrew

[LandyAndy]

A Chinese auto worker earns between $US2 and $US6 per hour.

Would Australian automotive workers get out of bed for that sort of money?

After 2017 they won't have to get ot of bed! The Chinese will have all their jobs.

I think you will find the going rate for blue collar workers in the good ole USA is only $12 per hour.
In no way do I suggest this is OK.
Andrew

[Michael2]

In the US a worker may make $12p/h, but a $400K equivalent house can be got for $120K and food is half the price; fuel is cheaper, and so are clothes.

In China, it's only a few $USD per month to pay for food and accom.

Here a guy can make $50K and half of it goes to the mortgage. Take Tax and food out of that and it looks like the Chinese have a higher disposable income. - Just that they don't earn enough to buy a car.

[Chucaro]

Every time that the issue of production cost is raised, the solution it is to bring the wages down!
Forget about that, it is not that simple unless they do not care to finish the building and retail industry plus many small business because people will lost the purchasing power.
A better way to reduce costs is to make the production more efficient with more output and less labour.
That will require capital equipment investment like VW done with the Passat factory but for some reason the engineering industry management culture in Australia is reluctant in doing that.
There still in Australia engineering shops using machine tools 60 years old and pretending that the workers earn money according to productivity.

[Ratel10mm]

If you're using pre-CNC & robotic production in a mass manufacturing situation, you're dead in the water. Your QC & productivity just won't be up to the task.
I thnk a lot of people claim 'high labour costs' in Oz without having done any research. Take a look at the German car manufacturers. Iirc A production line drone @ BMW earns significantly more than I could in the UK at the time, with a higher education etc.
Apart from a significantly higher employer pension / super contribution, I'm about the same or slightly worse paid here than the UK, for doing the same job.

Management here makes the same simple mistake management in the UK makes - they don't actually put in any effort & look to see where they can make real, intelligent & useful savings within a business, they just let the accountants pick a number to reduce.

Protectionist policies don't work either, for any purchase that can realistically be privately shipped. Take books - we pay a ridiculous price for books in Oz, to 'protect & nurture local authors'. Well sorry, since the internet has made the business world flat, if the book is too expensive here I'll buy it overseas.
So that gov't policy has actually screwed the local printer, wholesaler & book shop. Nice one, Gov't. :rolleyes:

[LandyAndy]

In the US a worker may make $12p/h, but a $400K equivalent house can be got for $120K and food is half the price; fuel is cheaper, and so are clothes.

In China, it's only a few $USD per month to pay for food and accom.

Here a guy can make $50K and half of it goes to the mortgage. Take Tax and food out of that and it looks like the Chinese have a higher disposable income. - Just that they don't earn enough to buy a car.

Tell me about it.Only just starting to be "comfortable" at 47 and having worked my guts out at low wages in the past,loving my current income,worked hard and long to get what I get now.
Andrew

[Fifth Columnist]

They've shot themselves in the foot again!
BBC News - Toyota to recall 1.9 million Prius hybrids (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26148711)

[Mick_Marsh]

They've shot themselves in the foot again!
BBC News - Toyota to recall 1.9 million Prius hybrids (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26148711)
Interesting bit of that article.
Despite its problems, Toyota is forecasting a record profit for this year because of the effects of the weaker Japanese currency, which makes its cars cheaper abroad.
When the Japanese yen strengthens and the Aussie dollar weakens, as it no doubt will, we will be wishing we hadn't lost our Australin manufacturing as Toyotas become a very expensive car to buy.