Defender Purchasing Dilemma

[specwarop]

With the (old) news that the Defender will be discontinued soon due to various reasons, is there any worth in purchasing one these days?

Arguably, the Land Cruiser 70 is the direct competitor in Australia for the Defender, and it comes with far more refinements and safety considerations. However, it is more expensive....

But is the lack of safety points in the Defender, such as airbags - enough to prevent anyone from purchasing one? Or does that combined with its agricultural nature (in an age where people want the extra luxuries to go with the reliability and toughness), further fuel to the fire?

What do you guys think these days, buy a new Defender, spend a bit extra and get a LC70 - or change genres and get a Discovery.

[tuesdayfox]

Personally I will at least buy one with permanent 4wd. I don't think fitting an airbag In a high power rear wheel drive would help much when drifting:D

Cheer
Marrin

[voltron]

I love my Defender, but if you are happy to part with the cash and except the running cost's of a LC then I would just go with the LC. Same thing but different, debatably just as capable and Toyota build quality is generally of high standard. That V8 well, say no more.

But I do love my Defender and probably would never buy a LC despite contemplating it now and again.

Have I confused you??

Cheers

[specwarop]

Whats the cause of the running costs of an LC (that V8 heavy on the fuel)? Help a noob like me understand what it is about the current Defender range that would keep you coming back? At this stage of my thoughts, the LC just seems like better value, you get more for the price? I hope someone can prove me wrong because I am a diehard LandRover fan!

[Psimpson7]

I ordered a new Defender for the very reason that they dont have a ton of features I dont want. I am happy with no airbags etc. I also wanted a new Defender specifically. I dont mind the 76 series wagons but there are a few things that put me off. Leaf springs on the rear and the narrow rear track being a couple. The price is another! ! They are 20k to expensive

[n plus one]

With the (old) news that the Defender will be discontinued soon due to various reasons, is there any worth in purchasing one these days?

Arguably, the Land Cruiser 70 is the direct competitor in Australia for the Defender, and it comes with far more refinements and safety considerations. However, it is more expensive....

But is the lack of safety points in the Defender, such as airbags - enough to prevent anyone from purchasing one? Or does that combined with its agricultural nature (in an age where people want the extra luxuries to go with the reliability and toughness), further fuel to the fire?

What do you guys think these days, buy a new Defender, spend a bit extra and get a LC70 - or change genres and get a Discovery.

No ABS or TC on the LC70...

[tuesdayfox]

Thought about this when buying my puma 110. Correct me if I am wrong, the handling of a permanent 4wd is way better than that of a part time 4wd that are basically rwd on road. I have only driven wrangler before and the thing will drift thought a roundabout if not handled properly...( perhaps due to my poor driving skills).
As for the safety, defender is basically always underpowered so you won't be speeding.
M

[specwarop]

Sorry whats TC?

[n plus one]

Sorry whats TC?

Traction Control, though to be fair it's more of an off-road aid than an on-road safety device in a Defender...

[specwarop]

Thats what I guessed it was, but thought that it seems a bit out of place, considering they dont have cruise control...

[djgrima]

I looked at it this way. The LC is twenty or so grand dearer. On top of that is the extra fuel, add the extra insurance, you'll go through two more sets of tyres and probably heap of electrical issues after the warranty expires. Then you have a huge service bill each time you drop it off at Toyota. They sound nice, are comfy and allot of my mates have them. But if you're not sure, your best bet is to go LC, because you really do have to love a Landy to own it otherwise you'll see it as curse.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using AULRO mobile app

[Ean Austral]

Im no expert , but drove a LC ute with the V8 diesel ( was a hire ute so would be latest model ) 4500ks basically non stop with the wife as a co driver, and they would be the most uncomfortable car I have ever driven.


We had to stop every 2 hrs as I couldn't feel my but cheeks. Can only compare it with my D2 & D3 for fuel and tell you what its thirsty, very thirsty.


Cant say about a comparision to a defender as I have only just recently driven a defender around a couple of streets.


Can tell you the disco is worth a look .


Cheers Ean

[specwarop]

Are the LCs really that bad with fuel, and chewing through tyres and expensive services. I would have thought a LandRover would be more expensive for servicing being a premium brand...

[Psimpson7]

If you are serious I would think the best bet would be to call up your local dealer and ask for servicing prices / schedules. You can compare them directly then.

[weeds]

A mate of mine has switched from a TD5 defer to a 76 series tray back single cab thingy.............apart from fuel towing his camper he says he wished he had done it years ago........he just got back from a trip to the Kimberley's.......not one issue at all, including no burning of oil. He also says the narrow rear track is only an issue on the black stuff, I issues off road.

[Tomo]

The newer 76 series now have ABS, I think it came in 2012...

I have a 2009 76 Series for work and a 2009 110 defender as my personal car.

Offroad the Defender is far better. Defender has a far better ride and much better wheel travel and with the combination of traction control and anti stall it can simply walk thru deep ruts with ease where my 76 over the same ground ran out of wheel travel and was very close to being bogged. Corrugations and dirt road touring are much nicer in the defer.


Onroad - The 76 series is great on the highway, that V8 is a ripper. At high speed the stability of the 76 is better. I have seen 160km/h in a 76 no probs, this was passing a roadtrain. The NT has 130 speed limits (well most of it apart from a 200km stretch nth of Alice which is back to being unlimited) The defer you have the speed limiter at 140 and beyond approx 120 they do not feel the most stable of machines. I do not push mine above 120 generally

Fuel consumption - the 76 is probably about 3-6L per 100km thirstier, obviously depends upon how you drive them.

The 76 has approx 100K on the clock and not one thing has gone wrong. The defender has 82K on the clock and has had numerous oil leaks fixed under warranty the gearbox was taken out to fix leaks, rear Transfer case seal, hub seal, vacuum pump. 2 egr valves (one just outside of warranty at a cost of $1200) and the ac system blew a few hoses and needed work. The reliability of the defer seems to have stabilised now. It seems that the defer come out of the factory 95% finished and the rest is done under warranty.

Now this is from a sample of 2 and there are some design faults known within the 76 as well such as starter motor, injectors, and high oil consumption,

[Loubrey]

You are obviously aware that the LC70 is being discontinued as well…?

All new vehicles being sold from the beginning of 2016 (unconfirmed date) will need to have fully integrated "Automatic Stability Control" or whatever its known as with different manufacturers as well as the airbag issue which will come in about the same time. Both Defender and LC70 falls under that hammer.

The big construction and mining company's fleet managers have already started phasing LC70's out of their long term plans.

So whatever you decide to buy, the Defender's imminent discontinuation should not really be a feature in a decision versus a LC70

[specwarop]

Surely it cant be that hard to modify the car to fit ASC?

Anyways, I am pretty keen on the Defender. I am looking into getting a novated lease through the company I work for. The online simple quote is telling me that it will cost me $1700 a month for 5 years, equalling $100k roughly. Does that seem right to you? Obviously that also includes fuel (est 30000km a year), servicing, tyres, rego, insurance, roadside assistance - over that 5 years.

Sound right to you - $50k to run the car for 5 years...

[frantic]

Surely it cant be that hard to modify the car to fit ASC?

Anyways, I am pretty keen on the Defender. I am looking into getting a novated lease through the company I work for. The online simple quote is telling me that it will cost me $1700 a month for 5 years, equalling $100k roughly. Does that seem right to you? Obviously that also includes fuel (est 30000km a year), servicing, tyres, rego, insurance, roadside assistance - over that 5 years.

Sound right to you - $50k to run the car for 5 years...


not sure but break it down,
Fuel: about 280l a month so $1,60=$448 retail, often they will give you a fleet card and get bulk fuel discount.;)
Pay off a certain percentage over 5 years, so say 50%(you insert correct figures): =$10,000 a year=$833/month
Interest on remaining residual , could be anything from ZERO to $2-300 a month. Often they have low or no interest specials.
Servicing, now a independent may charge you but LR used to offer free servicing instead of a fleet discount , if that's still the case get it factored in;).
Depending on your residual and other factors, you could be on anything from close to $1000- your quoted $1700.
Also the cost of the lease will increase if you get extras added like a bulbar, winch, rock sliders, muddies, interior kit, led's etc. But is also a 50:50 good idea as you don't have to save for them later when you may not have the cash.

[jasonedu]

But is the lack of safety points in the Defender, such as airbags - enough to prevent anyone from purchasing one?

there was a good discussion about this a a year or so ago on actual crash statistics out of the UK and the Defender was one of the safest cars in a two vehicle collision. I suspect this is because the other softer lighter car becomes your crumple zone.

your driving style will be more important for a single vehicle accident. take it easy and this wont be a problem either :-)

[specwarop]

Found out the remaining residual on the novated lease would be $15k.

My quote included the following specifics: $2500/yr maintenance, $1500 arb bullbar, $1000 cruise control, towbar $1305, $500 body coloured roof, $670 side rails, $5700 fuel usage/yr.


Would you guys bother getting the LR supplied accessories?
Such as mudflaps, rubber mats, side rails, bullbar, snorkel, towbar.

Or is it cheaper, and better quality, to get aftermarket branding items?

[Tomo]

I have got a 110 wagon on a novated lease and have been happy with it....

Tow bar - Genuine LR are the best. They have the best departure angle, however you cannot fit a long range tank with one......

Snorkel - Mantec is exactly the same as genuine one and much less.

front mudflaps - you can get brittpartt ones which seem exactly the same as the LR ones cheeper

Rubber mats - the genuine ones do look pretty good, however i dont have them...

Side rails - not sure

I have bought stuff direct from UK and been able to claim the $ back from my novated lease provider, however you may want to check with them......

[newhue]

specwarop you probably right there. I pay 960 per month for just he truck, but if I add my own 20K of accessories, and 17K retainer its all close enough to 100K in the end. Keep in mind too. It's very easy for insurance to write of a Defender, so respect the investment.

I seem to be one of the few who like the factory snorkel. It tanks a bit of modding with silicone, or a Nugget Stuff kit to make it water tight. But it has good anti leaf and rain design, and also has dust extraction tornadoes built in to the system. This doesn't mean however you will pulling it apart after original installation to make it a snorkel. LR wont seal it for you.

Buy a second hand tow bar. Triumph Spared SA will freight you one for $350ish. They know what fits, and they are not hard to fit. I've never heard of a warranty issue with a tow bar. I think I paid $800ish for my factory.

MR Auto have very good fitted floor mats for half what LR want. Standard are good but at 100K I have warn half through the mat from my drivers heel. Maybe I'm expecting a bit much there.

Not sure what a LR Bbar is worth. They are winch capable but don't have the cut outs done yet. They are made by ARB and slightly different to ARB's I think, but only slightly. Worth pricing.

Side rails, wait and see. Standard are too low for good 4x4ing. Sliders are in my mind more about side impact than sliding on any rock. I have however used mine as a pivot point to get the 130 through a patch of trees. I stand on them for roof loading for work more than anything.

lastly. Had a look over a LC myself one day. I fail to see how it can be any more than what it is if it were not for marketing. Chassis is small, and generally small components. The tray space on a twin cab seems to have more overhang then support. Piddly exhaust. Potential front diff, fire wall, oil issues. And those rear leaf springs. I once had a leaf pack LC, never again, coils are king in my view. Then there is poor internal console design, and no air con standard all for 20K more.

I admit my Defer has had plenty of warranty work, but all at minimal cost to me. Always had a loaner, and always no arguments from the dealer. But it also has done a 5000km high country, and two hard 7500km desert trips without an issue. And many many weekly or weekend trips, and I never lifted the bonnet or had a failure.

I think you have made a good choice.

[Steve223]

I also looked in to the LC76 series and the engine seems to have injectors issues at the 180k mark and sometimes much earlier cost to fix 1k per injector.

Not to mention that it would have cost me about the same to buy as my defender but I would have had to spent another 20k to deck it out

[Pickles2]

Specwarop, Is a Defender for you?....well of course, only you can decide that.
I reckon you ought to get down to your friendly LR Dealer & take an extended drive in a Defender, & then do the same with a Landcruiser, or whatever else it is that you think may interest you.
To own a Defender, I think you really have to "Love" them, & be aware of how "different" they are, because there are lots of vehicles which will be more powerful, comfortable, & practical, BUT, they are not a Defender.
Defender is an Icon, Legend, Historic, Special, all that sort of stuff, but if you don't "Like" it, then something else may be best, for you.
Regards, Pickles.
(I did post words to this effect a few days ago, but my post appears to heve been "lost"?)

[patclan]

Do Land rover still offer the corporate pack? When I did my novated lease in 2009, ( finishes in November this year when I need to find 15k) they gave me 3 years/100k free servicing and the fitted mats front and middle as part of the pack, all I had to do was ask for it.

Cheers
Pat

[noyakfat]

Do Land rover still offer the corporate pack?

Yes, they do indeed :)

[specwarop]

What does the 3year/100k free servicing comprise of?
The warranty servicing? If so thatd be a good $5000 worth?

[patclan]

What does the 3year/100k free servicing comprise of?
The warranty servicing? If so that be a good $5000 worth?


Well for me it was every 10k service up to the 100k one.

Cheers
Pat.