which P38 ?

[pop058]

Just thinking out loud ATM but if one was to look at getting a P38, what year/model/drivelines should I be looking for ??

I have had a couple of RRCs as my DD before and currently the wife and I both have D1s. Although Nan loves her V8 auto, I find mine (V8 manual) uncomfortable on trips and was contemplating going back to a Rangie.

The RRC has always been my favourite but was thinking what about these P38s. You hear some horror stories but you get that with most cars/models :D.

Any do's or (constructive) dont's are more than welcome.

T.I.A.

Paul

[PeterH]

I had an '89 classic for 7 years before moving on to my current 2001 HSE P38.
It is a big move up from the classic with all the modern electronics, air suspension, nice interior and drive.
Owning a classic is a great primer to owning a P38, it will make sense mechanically if you like to do your own maintenence.
Of course with any complicated vehicle, there are more things to go wrong, fortunately most of those are small annoying problems, most of which can be fixed yourself with help from this forum and rangerovers.net
Personally, I would be looking at the updated version that came in about mid 1999, it has the highly regarded thor engine management system, you can identify them with the clear front indicators.
A faultmate is a must, that thing has been a huge help to me in diagnosing problems. Also the rave manual is a must have.
You can read about P38's and thier faults as much as you like, but ultimately, when you get behind the wheel, you'll know why so many of us persist with them!
The big thing with any Range Rover is maintenance. If you are able to maintain it yourself, that is the key to keeping costs reasonable.
I have done virtually every job so far myself, which is nice to know it wasn't done by a first year apprentice in a mechanics shop somewhere.
I have collected a nice array of quality tools now, which makes things much more bearable when you are underneath and covered in grease!
Good luck with the P38 hunting.

[Scouse]

updated version that came in about mid 1999, it has the highly regarded thor engine management system, you can identify them with the clear front indicators.Thor came out in the 1999MY with orange indicator lenses. They went white/clear in 2000MY.

[wayneg]

Peter is pretty bang on with his advice, Get a Thor if your budget can stretch, thats not to say the earlier cars are not worth considering. 4 wheel traction control,Stronger front diff, more torque, better KPL Bosch engine management is what you pay more for. 2000my cars have different lights front rear and fog. Maintenance is paramount, parts are relatively cheap but If you cant turn a spanner yourself then forget it. Cooling system must be 100% Air suspension can be challenging but fixable

[Keithy P38]

Yeah definitely happy with my '99 Bosch HSE. It's been faultless for me (excluding the alternator the day I bought it and crank position sensor a year later - things that could happen to any commodore or falcon, not specifically a P38).

It's taken me over 40,000 lovely kilometers over 4yrs, through Cape York (where I towed 3t of classic Range Rover back through Lakefield to Cairns), through the goldfields and everywhere in between, it lives in touring mode and sees nothing but low range every time! Certainly is an adventure machine! Brings back better fuel consumption than the V8 Commodore it replaced!

Wouldn't change it for quids! Luxury, performance, great towing ability, excellent 4wd capability - what more could you ask!

Cheers
Keithy

[TheTree]

HI

Great advice here, my 1999 HSE 4.6 is a true luxury beast and I love it:D

The only other thing I can suggest is get one with an LPG injection system fitted

Good luck
Steve

[pop058]

The general lean appears to be toward the 4.6. Is there any issues with the 4.0 other than that "there is no substitute for cubic inches" :D

[Pedro_The_Swift]

if memory serves the last 4.6's were more powerful- wheres that wiki page--
"The final version, used in the Range Rover, produced 222 hp (166 kW) at 4,750 rpm and 300 ft•lbf (407 Nm) at 2,600 rpm"


oh,, and the 4L will drop a liner,,,

[Grumbles]

If contemplating a P38 then I think the only choice is the full disaster - a Vogue model. Might as well have all the luxuries the P38 can offer.

[Hoges]

if memory serves the last 4.6's were more powerful- wheres that wiki page--
"The final version, used in the Range Rover, produced 222 hp (166 kW) at 4,750 rpm and 300 ft•lbf (407 Nm) at 2,600 rpm"


oh,, and the 4L will drop a liner,,,

Not sure the 166kw version of the 4.6 ever came here in the P38. May have been in the last of the D2s. IIRC all the 4.6 and 4.0 engines in the P38 models had the low compression version (8.37:1) which in the P38 was about 10-12 kw less than the high compression version.... an extra 10-12kw would be handy... especially on long ascending grades..

[Keithy P38]

Yeah we got the 156kW and 400Nm version from '99 on... What's a few killer wasps between friends!

[redandy3575]

If i recall correctly, i believe the GEMS 4.6 had 157kw, then later the first of the thors had 150kw but higher torgue som 400nm, then the last of the Thors kicked up to 160kw.

[Keithy P38]

That'd be it!

[Scouse]

Not sure the 166kw version of the 4.6 ever came here in the P38. May have been in the last of the D2s. IIRC all the 4.6 and 4.0 engines in the P38 models had the low compression version (8.37:1) which in the P38 was about 10-12 kw less than the high compression version.... an extra 10-12kw would be handy... especially on long ascending grades..
2001 & 2002 MY cars had the high compression engines. They have a 60D prefix.

[wayneg]

I shall have to take a gander at my late 2001 car

Factory 4.0 Litre Engines
42D R.R efi 9.34:1 CR 1994 onwards
44D R.R efi 8.13:1 CR 1994 onwards
57D R.R efi 8.13:1 CR 1998 onwards
58D R.R efi 9.34:1 CR 1998 onwards
92D R.R efi 8.13:1 CR Canada 1998 onwards
95D R.R efi 9.34:1 CR NAS 1998 onwards
Factory 4.6 Litre Engines
46D R.R efi 9.34:1 CR 1994 onwards
48D R.R efi 8.12.1 CR 1994 onwards
59D R.R efi 8.12:1 CR 1998 onwards
60D R.R efi 9.34:1 CR 1998 onwards
93D R.R efi 8.12:1 CR Canada 1998 onwards
96D R.R efi 9.34:1 CR NAS 1998 onwards

[PaulP38a]

Nothing wrong with the 4.0 Thor engine. My old 1999 4.0 had just as much grunt as the previous 1995 4.6 HSE GEMS.

The 4.0 (S, SE) models in Oz were considered "pov packs" as, unless optioned, generally did not have the nicer interior, sunroof and extra footwell lamps of the 4.6 HSE models.

[wayneg]

Just got to look at my engine number today and its a High comp 9.34, 60D prefix.
As its got sequential gas I recon thats a good thing.

[Robsrod 58]

As its got sequential gas I recon thats a good thing.

Not at 93c/l as it is in Sydney ATM!!!

Rob

[wayneg]

Same price in Perth but at least I know my high comp engine is going to make better use of it especially on Police engine setting. Will use Gas in Town and petrol on runs.

[Keithy P38]

What gains do you get from Police setting exactly? I've seen it, but dare not turn it on in case my P38 turns into a chaser or transformer somehow!

[wayneg]

PeterJam and I spent a couple of hours looking over both my cars with a Blackbox test set. The Police setting give a couple of degrees more advance. could not find anything else
cant be more specific than that

[Keithy P38]

So it's essentially a performance enhancing drug! I wonder if it alters the transmission settings too?

[Keithy P38]

I'll have a look on the BBS forum

[wayneg]

Please let us know your findings

[Keithy P38]

So all I could find on Police mode was:

- When fitted with the switches, would enable the flashing lights
- Allows the engine to run with the keys out and doors locked
- Disables the rev limiter on Thor motors
- Runs a richer fuel map from 3000rpm onwards

Apparently it super-chills the doughnut fridge in the rear as well.

Cheers
Keithy

[wayneg]

We definitely observed more advance which we were looking out for after the 1st observation, having no blues and two`s on the roof and no doughnut cooler I will have to take your word on that. My engine turns off when I turn and remove the key thankfully. Better keep it below 3000rpm or the fuel consumption might suffer.

[Keithy P38]

Yeah! Could be handy when towing and overtaking though!

[Hoges]

We definitely observed more advance which we were looking out for after the 1st observation, having no blues and two`s on the roof and no doughnut cooler I will have to take your word on that. My engine turns off when I turn and remove the key thankfully. Better keep it below 3000rpm or the fuel consumption might suffer.

How did you observe the additional advance? did you notice any measurable performance improvement? Am thinking that with 95/98 octane and the transmission button set for "sport", it might be worth it... there's a big performance hole in the low compression fuel map between 1700 and 2500 rpm especially in top gear...damn I miss my 5.7L of sequentially fuel injected wizardry from Detroit!!!

[Keithy P38]

It's only a matter of enabling it on the BECM, isn't it?

When I've got a few days spare I'll enable it and go for a drive.

[wayneg]

Yes its only a BECM switchable item.
With the engine running connected to live data on the Blackbox Rovacom unit ( Pro Garage setup ) Peterjam, well versed in these things was monitoring the live data. Not 100% what we were looking at screen wise but it showed lots of data including advance . Also showed one oxygen sensor full rich, not working and a random missfire.
He was surprised to see more more advance and pointed it out
As the new car had it set to on when I bought it I presumed it was something a clued up LPG fitter switched on when installing the Sequential Gas.
As for performance the new car feels more sprightly than the other but that might be just the correct size tyres .

[Keithy P38]

I can feel another YouTube comparison coming on!

[Hoges]

On second thoughts, the fuel mapping/timing etc. is controlled by the EMS. So switching the BECM to "Police" setting would imply an instruction to the EMS from the BECM... If ...and it's a big "IF" this is the case then the "instruction" could be either to specify the new settings...or simply direct the EMS to adopt "setting Police" which is already part of the EMS firmware.

I am thinking that it is likely to be the latter situation...if at all. The original post prompted me to do a bit of a search... the Police Setting appears to be mainly associated with various lighting options as well as the vehicle requiring additional wiring looms to be added to the existing harness... There is a specific warning in the BBS against setting the BECM to Police if the vehicle has not been set up....

EDIT: the extra advance may have been due to the EMS detecting a lean mixture and compensating thereby causing the oxygen sensor to read "rich". Need to have a look at the fuel trim as well to get some context.

[Keithy P38]

There is only one 'real' way to find out!

[Hoges]

:twisted::D;)

[wayneg]

From recollection the advance was only more at higher revs, It could have been the 3000 mark