Snorkel word of warning

[Keithy P38]

Hey guys

It may seem obvious, but didn't hit home until today. When you get a snorkel fitted/manufactured/whatever, make sure it has a drain in the bottom of the airbox. By plugging up a drain, you have no chance of letting rain water or the old garden hose water when you wash your rangie out.

Today (if you read the Lifted P38 thread) I went on a trip of around 400km with the Townsville Landy club (known as Roving Around 4X4), it was an awesome day with 8 vehicles turning up (funny enough, 2 D3's, 2 Puma Defenders, 2 P38's, a D1 and a GU Patrol). It'd be a 6 out of 10 for difficulty - the other P38 that came along is a '96 HSE with all-terrains and he cleared all obstacles without fuss.

Anyway, back to my story!

So we're on the home stretch, about 100km to go, all highway. It starts raining - not just rain, it was cats'n'dogs rain. We were reduced to a slow-moving convoy at around 50km/h it was that hard! Now i'm not one to believe in jokes turning out to be real, but I was joking with the other P38 owner that one of us was due not to make it back to Townsville without a drama of some sort... So my snorkel took in water... Lots of it... In one way i'm lucky - my airbox has a drain and the water drained just as quickly as it went in. In the other way, i'm not so lucky and during an overtaking manouvre (this commodore pulled in front of me as i was doing 90km/h in bucketing rain and the only option was to overtake as I couldnt slow down fast enough) the engine began to choke. I got past him and it kept choking and choking until eventually the engine stalled.

I pulled off the road and discovered that my air filter was wet. Very wet. As if it had been sitting in a bucket of water all day - wet. So was my MAF and the intake pipework. The engine snuffed out because it couldn't get air past the air filter (luckily), so I put a spare that was on hand and it fired up and after 20secs was like nothing had happened and it drove home with no ill-effects (PHEW). If anything it's actually a bit peppier! Perhaps a good hot day and 300km plus a steam clean could have done it some good?

As a result, i'm getting some sort of sock to put over the head for wet weather events such as today.

Anyway, i've built up all this hype over nothing really - here's the few pics I took! The flex shot is pretty ordinary, I still had about 3" of bag on the piston and the bump stops were 2 1/2" from touching on the other side, so there's more available than what you see here - it was the only real photo op for me as I use my iPhone as a navigation device and it was on it's pedestal all day.

It was a great trip, a good mix of landy's (and a jap), and I returned awesome fuel figures (used a tad over 1/3 of the tank for the 300km travelled) and the display shows an average of 13.5l/100km (i'll confirm that when i fuel up tomorrow, but am expecting a fill of around 32 litres). Old mate with the '96 P38 was sitting at exactly the same fuel consumption dash readout as me for the first 70km leg of the journey, on the same 255/70 tyres (albeit his are all-terrains not muddies).

Enjoy!
Keithy

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=72966&d=1392547683
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=72967&d=1392547901
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=72968&d=1392548244
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=72969&d=1392548892
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=72970&d=1392549095

[Keithy P38]

One last pic...

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=72971&d=1392549439

[FANTOM P38]

Thanks for heads up Keithy, I'm sure all of us considering a snorkel will keep this advice in mind whilst installing. Need to consider how to prevent a repeat of that if we can, not everyone will be carrying a spare filter.

[Keithy P38]

Yeah, it's definitely something to keep in mind.

It did a good job to keep running as long as it did with that amount of water through the filter! Preventing it from getting in would be the first step. I think a sock would go some way to achieving that in my case - not so sure about the ram-head style ones.

[benji]

I wonder if the likes of a Safari snorkel head would solve some of that. A novel way to clean the engine though.

Looks like a great trip.

[davidsonsm]

Yeah I thought the safari style heads were supposed to separate the water from the air? You see a lot of these heads reversed.

I've not got a drain in my air box at present but I intend fitting one - perhaps with some clear hose and a manually operated valve. You could leave the valve open if you want - perhaps in combination with a non-return valve.

[Robsrod 58]

Why not try installing one of those nipply thingos used for the A/C drain through the floor tunnel in the bottom of the air box. That should allow one way water flow. Just a thought..

[Keithy P38]

Good ideas! I guess with all of them you could drill a hole in the airbox on the engine side and fit the tubing/valving. It's too late for me to fit a ram head now, I've gotta get creative!

I guess another drain wouldn't be necessary if the water wasn't there in the first place!

[Dougal]

What sort of snorkle head have you got?
IMO ram air is completely over-rated and at legal speeds isn't worth the hassle. Rear facing will stop 95% of dramas like that.

[Keithy P38]

Mine is a stainless snorkel, the intake is on the roof (about 15mm above roof height) facing the drivers rear quarter.

[PhilipA]

The ARB ram type heads and Chinese copies drop quite a bit of the water out of suspension before it goes down the tube.

The idea is the snorkel opening is in the middle of a bigger open area and the water going in through the grille largely hits the rear wall of the head and runs out the drains in 4 places.
I had a LRA snorkel on my RRC with an ARB type head and although the air cleaner got damp in places a couple of times in really heavy rain , it never became sodden.
I have Chinese copy on my TD5 and I noticed that the Chinese had almost faithfully copied the ARB head but had not extended the slots past the flat section at the bottom where the clamp goes to drain the water that collects in the head. So anyone else with a Chinese snorkel should extend the slots.
It is essential to clean all the dead bees, leaves etc out of there periodically also.
I think that your problem was more to do with your snorkel entry design rather than snorkels in general. If you cut it off with a vertical section at the top and fit an ARB head ( sitting vertical) the problem will be reduced greatly probably to the extent of not being a problem any more.
Regards Philip A
BTW I don't believe the ARB/Donaldson heads are like that to provide ram air, they are there to act as a separator for water. I did a test using a Minihelic air pressure gauge on my RRC and found almost no ram effect( maybe 1inch of water) at 80Kmh and that was into a throttled V8. it would probably be nil in a diesel where there is no throttle plate preventing air past..

[benji]

I'll be going one of the round head to negate ram effect playing with the lpg.

Maybe a hose with a manual valve would be best. Just turn it off when doing crossings.

[Dougal]

The most ram-air effect you can get at 80km/h is 300Pa (30mm water gauge). At 100km/h that is 460Pa (46mm water gauge). It's so low it's pointless.

But to get that you need completely still air in the collector.

[Keithy P38]

Thanks for the info!

I might screw in a ball valve and be done with it. As my snorkel head is on the horizontal, I can't improve the design to prevent heavy rain water getting in. It was fine today in moderate rain but I still definitely need to put the valve in.

It would also serve as a warning to anyone going the DIY or stainless route.

Cheers
Keithy

[PhilipA]

What I do is just silastic the drain burper up about 95% and any water going in from the snorkel will drip out .

You would have to be careful with a hose not to have a rise in it or the water could back up to the level of the rise.
This is all that is necessary unless you are stopped in water and if you have water over the element in a 38A or a TD5 Disco for that matter you will have far more problems than just a wet air filter.
Regards Philip A

[redandy3575]

Interesting read on the water entry. Can't say i had that problem with mine as of yet, though i did find every now and then a drop or two at the air entry to the box which after a few hours evapourated from the heat of the engine. The company that made it put a small extended 1/3 round roof type lip extending about an inch over the snorkel opening which is meant to draw the water away an off the snorkel with the wind. Though having said that, id be looking at drilling a small drainage hole and plugging it up with a rubber grommet when crossing deep rivers.

[Keithy P38]

My airbox already has a drainage hole! And it's clear/free of debris! As I mentioned up the top, it was ****ing down with rain - harder than I've ever driven through before! Took the Rangie around town yesterday in moderate rain and the water was draining away fine, the air filter is dry.

[PaulP38a]

The ill-fated HRA snorkel/RAI had a couple of design features to reduce the effect of rain ingress:
- grille on the head to disperse/slow down rain drops with a couple of drain holes at the head;
- early designs with Safari heads used the existing drain slots;
- "ducks bum" in the air box to allow any excess water to escape.

[996TURBO]

Had the same problem with my snorkel on a very heavy and stormy rain...

Considering a new snorkel head.:mad: