Auto Trans education

[Plane Fixer]

Today I followed a Toy dual cab down Mt Wellington and he rode the brakes all the way down with a few seconds off the brakes. There was quite a stink of burnt brakes at the bottom.
I would suggest it was an auto and he did not have any clue how to drive an auto except to put it in D and let it do the rest; then simply use brakes as necessary.
Meanwhile I selected 2 or 3 and used engine braking with an occasional dab of brake as the guy in front braked harder at some corners or oncoming cars.
It appears that using an auto to assist in braking in certain situations or simply how to properly use one is not taught these days. As most cars in Australia are auto surely the correct use of these gearboxes should be part of driver training.

[DiscoMick]

Yeah, some people have no idea about engine braking. I often pull the Disco back to 3rd or even 2nd on steep descents just to ease the load on the brakes. I've had passengers ask me why I do that. My explanation seems a bit of a revelation to them.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[discotwinturbo]

Manual shift is the way.

Sport mode does give better engine braking, but that only kicks in once you start braking.

Brett.....

[BobD]

Its good off road in low range because if you select say sand mode, it will hold the low gears and provide heaps of engine braking without the driver doing anything. Its almost as good as a manual at picking the correct gear for engine braking as long as you are going slowly on hilly sand tracks. Too fast and it will choose higher gears with less engine braking.

Bob

[oldsalt]

Today I followed a Toy dual cab down Mt Wellington and he rode the brakes all the way down with a few seconds off the brakes. There was quite a stink of burnt brakes at the bottom.
I would suggest it was an auto and he did not have any clue how to drive an auto except to put it in D and let it do the rest; then simply use brakes as necessary.
Meanwhile I selected 2 or 3 and used engine braking with an occasional dab of brake as the guy in front braked harder at some corners or oncoming cars.
It appears that using an auto to assist in braking in certain situations or simply how to properly use one is not taught these days. As most cars in Australia are auto surely the correct use of these gearboxes should be part of driver training.

Driver training ??? - the way some people drive down here you would be excused for thinking that they had never heard of the concept of driver training :p

[pop058]

They don't teach them how to drive, they teach them how to get a licence.

Unfortunately, 2 totally different concepts :(

[phl]

I find Toyota didn't do a very good job with their auto box; not very intelligent and doesn't retard speed well. And this is from their upmarket brand...

So the driver in front may have found the brakes more reliable.

[letherm]

IMHO, people these days are taught to steer, not drive.

The problem is that most people are taught to drive in the city and no thought is given to country/mountain driving. I was taught on a manual a "few" :angel: years ago now. If you've learnt on a manual you appreciate how to use a gearbox - manual or auto. I used to manually select an appropriate gear on an auto box going up mountains too. It saves the gearbox hunting around for the right gear when you want to maintain a constant speed that's on the shift threshold between two gears, especially with a big boat on the back. I've only had my D4 since November and so far it doesn't need me to override the auto going up hill - it just powers up the hill no worries compared to my old Pajero. More power, diesel engine and 8 speed box no doubt help. :D

I do agree that this aspect of driving should be at least given some mention during a learner's tuition, even if only a quick demo going down a hill so they at least know about it.

Martin

[theresanothersteve]

Driver training ??? - the way some people drive down here you would be excused for thinking that they had never heard of the concept of driver training :p
If you do advanced driver training these days they teach you to use the brakes, not the gearbox to slow the vehicle. Even in a medium rigid you are not supposed to change down therough the box, each manouvere gets one gear change.

When my wife did a driving course as part of her employment she challenged the instructor. His answer was brakes are a consumable, and cheaper to replace than gearboxes and clutches.

Modern disc brakes are far less likely to fade due to heat buildup from sustained use, and most vehicles have auto boxes, but this really is a cop out, catering for the lowest common denominator.

I, too, put my auto box into manual and select a lower gear before going downhill. Although autos aren't as effective at slowing as a manual box, it still gives the driver greater control.

[XDrive]

Funny that some people are allowed to teach people to only use the brakes 'as it is a consumable' and when they fail, then does that make the driver/truck also consumable.

By using the gears correctly, you are not damaging the vehicle or wearing out the components. However, you are maintaining a level of control, which cannot be achieved on the brakes alone.

If you are using the gears correctly, you will be in the correct gear to accelerate away from danger should the need arise.

If a person is only taught to use the brakes to stop and the brakes fail, they have no idea how to slow the vehicle down safely.

Automatics gearboxes, 'hunting' between gears such as changing up and down due to being on the threshold of a gear, generates a tremendous amount of heat in the torque converter. Heat is not good for an automatic gearbox and will destroy it very quickly. Learning to chose a gear manually, alows more control over certain situations.

Unfortunately, a lot of people buy automatics and have no regard for the complexities of these gearboxes. Modern vehicle can cope with 90% of the driving that we experience on an everyday basis, it is the last 10% that requires more thought and more control.

In our Driver Training courses we teach people, to 'think' about their driving, both on and off road. Chosing the correct gear in advance (by looking ahead) allow the driver and the vehicle to aproach obstacles with much more control and less stress. This also applies to driving on-road or towing.

If you look at most manual vehicles (5 speed) you will find that 4th gear is a direct 1:1 ratio, Fifth being overdrive. Similar statistics are for 6 speed manuals where generally 4th is 1:1 or direct drive. If we look at the modern 8 speed automatic gearboxes, (take the VW Amarok as an example) 6th gear is closer to 1:1 and the last two gears are overdrive.

You do not necesairly want to be driving in these overdrive ratios with a large caravan or trailer and then simply floor the accelerator to get up a hill.

Same principle applies to driving on the beach or off road, where the vehicle may go into these overdrive ratios and then when you hit a patch of really soft sand off road and again floor the accelerator you can damage these gearboxes.

There are cases of people destroying manual gearboxes due to towing in fifth or sixth gear too often as well.

Most modern automatics allow you some control over the gearbox, either with 'paddle shifts' on the steering wheel or through a 'sport' or 'sequential' mode in the gearbox itself.

[JamesH]

While not disagreeing with any of the above, I haven't used anything other than D since getting my car a year ago. Gearbox seems fine at picking gears, I don't need to brake going down hills and as I'm slowing up for the lights it seems to change down as it wants. I don't tow and haven't felt the need to use command shift.

Used to have a Defender and driving that, I was never big on engine braking. I'd change down to match the revs to the speed of the car. I know by doing this there is an element of EB when you come off the throttle and maybe that's what you mean.

As I said, I'm not saying I'm right, but I just like the car to be balanced and not labouring against itself. Dropping a cog and having the revs jump isn't how I like to roll.

[jon3950]

In our Driver Training courses we teach people, to 'think' about their driving,

Well that will never catch on. :o

[Meken]

If it's all about using brakes on decent, then the QLD gov needs to change that big sign at the top of the toowoomba range advising trucks to use low gear

[superquag]

Being born in the middle of last Century I was taught to use service brakes last, after engaging the brain and lower gears.

I'd rather keep my linings for when I really need them.

Edit;- neither of the Bus & Coach companies I've worked for regard brakes as 'consumable' ...

[sheerluck]

I've had a similar experience, but it was a Corolla (?!) towing a small trailer that I was following. Halfway down the very long and steep descent and there was the stench of burning brakes. Got to the bottom, and his brake discs were glowing and the pads smoking really badly, and he had to pull off into the emergency run off area.

[letherm]

While not disagreeing with any of the above, I haven't used anything other than D since getting my car a year ago. Gearbox seems fine at picking gears, I don't need to brake going down hills and as I'm slowing up for the lights it seems to change down as it wants. I don't tow and haven't felt the need to use command shift.

Used to have a Defender and driving that, I was never big on engine braking. I'd change down to match the revs to the speed of the car. I know by doing this there is an element of EB when you come off the throttle and maybe that's what you mean.

As I said, I'm not saying I'm right, but I just like the car to be balanced and not labouring against itself. Dropping a cog and having the revs jump isn't how I like to roll.

At least you know how to do it if necessary and I think that's the main point of this thread. :)

[Plane Fixer]

Yes, the point I was trying to make is simply lack of education. After that how people drive is up to them.
I have experienced lack of brakes at the bottom of a deep wadi in Yemen when I was nearly kidnapped. I was outrunning them and in an old Pajero and I was in a hurry to get to the police post at the village at the bottom of the wadi.
Just one of the interesting places I have worked..........