2015 Defenders to have DSC

[mike_beecham]

From 'The 4WD Handbook' (Robert Pepper):

"From 2015 Model Year the 90 station wagon and 110 Station wagon will be fitted with Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) as standard. This will be packaged with ABS and therefore means that these Defender models will have ABS with Electronic Traction Control (ETC) and DSC as standard. ABS will also be available for the first time on 130 wheel base Defender models"

Why kill it off then?

Michael

[Lagerfan]

Guessing ... but the 2nd (and latest?) edition of the 4wd handbook is a couple of years old now, maybe that was the plan at the time?

[OffTrack]

Why kill it off then?


ESC is essentially a brake ECU update. It's an easy add on that gives the Defender another 12+ months life.

Euro 6 emissions regulations take effect in either August 2015 or August 2016 depending on which class of the N1 category the Defender falls into. Apparently the 2.2 Puma can be made compliant without too much trouble, so it should make it past that hurdle.

The very outer limit of Defender viability is 24/2/2018 when N1 category vehicles must comply with pedestrian protection regulation. This would require a complete redesign of the front end body work.

Posing a hypothetical: Land Rover would need time to sell non-compliant Defenders through the dealer network prior to Feb 2018, so you'd have to assume MY2017 would be the latest "old skool" Defender Land Rover could build providing they choose to keep the life support switched on that long.

cheers
Paul

[mike_beecham]

This quote came from Robert's Facebook site (The 4WD Handbook). So it is current I'd expect. I guess l am trying to decide WHEN too buy a new Defender. I want one with as much safety gear as l can get obviously.

Michael

[Psimpson7]

The quote is inaccurate however it is in its correct form on land rovers news site.

can be found here:

Land Rover Debuts Black Pack And Silver Pack Defenders At The 2014 Geneva International Motor Show (http://newsroom.jaguarlandrover.com/en-in/land-rover/news/2014/02/lr_def_blacksilverpacks_190214/)

The full quote is:

Dynamic Stability Control
From 2015 all UK and European specification Defenders will be fitted with Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) as standard. This will be packaged with ABS and therefore means that all new UK and European specification Defenders will have ABS with Electronic Traction Control (ETC) and DSC as standard. ABS will also be available for the first time on 130 wheel base Defender models.

[newhue]

This quote came from Robert's Facebook site (The 4WD Handbook). So it is current I'd expect. I guess l am trying to decide WHEN too buy a new Defender. I want one with as much safety gear as l can get obviously.

Michael

why then, would you not buy a Disco. The basic charm of a Defender would be lost is you want it to have a swag of safety.

[mike_beecham]

Um...because l want the Defender!

I have had a Disco. It didn't stand up to the task. I'm on my third Defender now...

I cant see an issue with having a Defender with some basic, modern safety additions? I don't see how this departs in any way from the 'basic charm of a Defender'?

Michael

[Landy86]

November 2014 is the last defender delivered to Perth for good

There continuing to make them for a few more years but will not be importing them to australia

[Lagerfan]

This quote came from Robert's Facebook site (The 4WD Handbook). So it is current I'd expect.

Ok I get you, I wondered why an 18+ month old book would talk about it!

Is DSC just more electronics/software? If it's just "smarter" software then I suppose it would be an easy addition to make to the current crop of Defenders even if they are ending shortly after MY15, I mean they would use the same code in other models anyhow.

[bemm52]

November 2014 is the last defender delivered to Perth for good





I'm in the market again where did this info come from


Cheers Paul

[islu51]

Land Rover did announce at the Geneva Motor Show yesterday that all UK 90/110 now have dynamic stability control and the 130 will have ABS/TC from the last quarter of tis year.. maybe it will live a little longer in the EU, and not just in Kenya/Malaysia...

[newhue]

Um...because l want the Defender!

I have had a Disco. It didn't stand up to the task. I'm on my third Defender now...

I cant see an issue with having a Defender with some basic, modern safety additions? I don't see how this departs in any way from the 'basic charm of a Defender'?

Michael

yeh must be me getting old. Unnecessary complexity and expanse seems to do it for me. I fail to see how an underpowered, all wheel drive, four wheel disc braked bus needs stuff like that.
It's tractor like gears make it no racer anywhere. It's hard to drive fast, then if you manage to do so it handles like crud. Then being all wheel drive means it's not sliding anywhere unless you are purposely trying. And even then it doesn't work really.
The four wheel disc brakes work fine, I can't get mine to lock on bitumen, or if so only for a millisecond as weight transfers then it's back to hard braking. And that is with no ABS. Gravel, well in theory we all should slow down, otherwise the safety aids have you fooled.
So the Defender being the simple beast it already is, is a pretty safe truck to start with because of what it is. I guess drive to the conditions isn't a flashy marketing statement like DTS, ETC, ABS. Like I said, must be getting old.

[Pickles2]

November 2014 is the last defender delivered to Perth for good

There continuing to make them for a few more years but will not be importing them to australia
There is another thread on this issue.
JLR's OFFICIAL "Worldwide" statement is that the last Defender will roll off the line at Solihull UK on the 20th December 2015. They will not be making them "for a few more years".
Obviously, if you want one, you'd have to order it before that.
The crucial date will be the "Date For Final Orders", which will be the last date that you will be able to have a Defender built, TO YOUR SPECIFICATIONS, ie, containing options that you require that have to be fitted on the line during production, at Solihull. There has been no official "Date For Final Orders" released as yet, but it would likely be at least 6 months prior to the final production date of 20/12/15.....but it would of course depend upon demand...the factory can onlly make so many in a given time?
Cheers, Pickles.

[Jeff]

So, do I order the latest one I can, or just keep the one I have. Will it do another 300,000 km without trouble like the first 300,000?

Jeff

:rocket:

[ScottW]

I cant see an issue with having a Defender with some basic, modern safety additions?

The biggest safety addition you can make to any car is putting a good driver behind the wheel. Then you won't need all the electrickery running the brakes for you.

Remember that snow and ice on the roads isn't as big an issue here compared to other countries, so all this stuff is a little less relevant.

[hay_howie]

The biggest safety addition you can make to any car is putting a good driver behind the wheel. Then you won't need all the electrickery running the brakes for you.

Yes but u can't account for the other drivers and animals that will always be out of your control!

[ramblingboy42]

There is another thread on this issue.
JLR's OFFICIAL "Worldwide" statement is that the last Defender will roll off the line at Solihull UK on the 20th December 2015. They will not be making them "for a few more years".
Obviously, if you want one, you'd have to order it before that.
The crucial date will be the "Date For Final Orders", which will be the last date that you will be able to have a Defender built, TO YOUR SPECIFICATIONS, ie, containing options that you require that have to be fitted on the line during production, at Solihull. There has been no official "Date For Final Orders" released as yet, but it would likely be at least 6 months prior to the final production date of 20/12/15.....but it would of course depend upon demand...the factory can onlly make so many in a given time?
Cheers, Pickles.

See my thread posted today in general chat.

[Pickles2]

See my thread posted today in general chat.
I already have.
Thanks, Pickles.

[mike_beecham]

Ok.
Not sure about others in this thread that seem to **** can me for my desire to increase safety in Defenders, but, l use my vehicle for work. It is getting hard to justify through the risk management process the use of 4WDs that only have ABS as an active safety feature.

Before the purists molest me:
I realise they are slow. I know that competent operators are important. I realise experience is crucial. I also understand the desire to keep things simple (stupid).

I work and travel in remote areas. When l'm working, people are relying on me for their safety. I appreciate having a simple vehicle for this reason. However, again, l see no issue in making software upgrades and changes to allow for systems like stability control.

These changes must be introduced or the Defender will be no more....oh wait....it is no more.

If you are happy with your 200TDi....keep it....but for me....l want and look forward to some much needed improvements to safety.

Michael

[newhue]

Yes but u can't account for the other drivers and animals that will always be out of your control!

I'd imagine if you swerve to miss an animal in a Defender than you are going to need more than eletrickery to keep it upright.
I guess in the end our views are moot, car manufacturers will add stuff for marketing purposes to look like they are bettering the vehicle. Governments and safety councils will decide what we supposedly need and will to pay for.
Maybe a text blocker when the vehicle is running would be far more practical than a device that allows you to speed and the car compensates for the drivers lack of brains.

[Landy86]

I'm in the market again where did this info come from


Cheers Paul

All the dealers in Western Australia told me the same thing when I was looking

[Landy86]

I'm not sure why people say the defender is unstable and unsafe

I have 2 1986. 110 defenders

One is a 2 door panel van with a 5litre rover motor and the other a 2 door ute with 600 hp that I race off road
It does 200 km hour off road
It's stable and handles better than my 2012 sr5 hilux off road.

The only unsafe thing I can see is in a roll over

The race landy has all stock running gear also

[bemm52]

stumbled on this it may be relevant 2015 Land Rover Defender special packs | carsguide.com.au (http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-reviews/car-news/2015_land_rover_defender_special-packs_82136_20140220)


Cheers

[ScottW]

Yes but u can't account for the other drivers and animals that will always be out of your control!

The point I was (badly) trying to make is that on average, a safe driver crusing around in a 2 door RRC would be safer that a bad driver with poor concentrationin a brand new Rang Rover.

There would be very few instances where the electronic driver aids would make a meaningful difference in outcome of a situation where an animal or another driver pulls out in front of you. Airbags and chassis design play a much bigger part. Whether a defender has DSC or not will not change the effectiveness of the airbag set-up, or structural integrity of the cockpit space in the event of a crash.

If you are worried about safety, buy a car with a top safety rating. If you want a defender, buy a defender.

[Jeff]

stumbled on this it may be relevant 2015 Land Rover Defender special packs | carsguide.com.au (http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-reviews/car-news/2015_land_rover_defender_special-packs_82136_20140220)


Cheers

Black headlining? I wonder if it will sag as quickly as the white one.

Jeff

:rocket:

[nedflanders]

ESC will require a lot more than software updates, a few more sensors for a start. Let's hope it's switchable as can you imagine lifting a wheel off road and it starts braking wheels. Probably an end to any after market suspension upgrades as well :(

[n plus one]

I'm not sure why people say the defender is unstable and unsafe

I have 2 1986. 110 defenders

One is a 2 door panel van with a 5litre rover motor and the other a 2 door ute with 600 hp that I race off road
It does 200 km hour off road
It's stable and handles better than my 2012 sr5 hilux off road.

The only unsafe thing I can see is in a roll over

The race landy has all stock running gear also

It's that ute of yours a Safari rig by any chance?

[specwarop]

stumbled on this it may be relevant 2015 Land Rover Defender special packs | carsguide.com.au (http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-reviews/car-news/2015_land_rover_defender_special-packs_82136_20140220)


Cheers

Looks like I am going to get a 2015 Defender then!!!
All it needs now is to be released with the TDV6 haha.

Hope they release pricing and information to dealers soon so I can order one for a early build date!!!

[Landy86]

It's that ute of yours a Safari rig by any chance?

No
My uncle and dad ordered one each in 86
Both came as hard tops with 3.5l v8

I've bought my uncles one wich he converted to a ute

[specwarop]

GENEVA MOTOR SHOW: Defender's last stand? - motoring.com.au (http://www.motoring.com.au/news/medium-4x4/land-rover/defender/geneva-motor-show-defenders-last-stand-41807)

" The new colour won't be available from the start of MY15 production, but will come on stream in August. Unfortunately, that rules it out for Australia, since the last shipment of Defender for the Australian market will be built and exported before the new colour comes on stream. And the Aussie-spec vehicles are due here in September of this year.
It's the last chance for local buyers to get in for a current series Defender. "

[frantic]

Ok.
Not sure about others in this thread that seem to **** can me for my desire to increase safety in Defenders, but, l use my vehicle for work. It is getting hard to justify through the risk management process the use of 4WDs that only have ABS as an active safety feature.

Before the purists molest me:
I realise they are slow. I know that competent operators are important. I realise experience is crucial. I also understand the desire to keep things simple (stupid).

I work and travel in remote areas. When l'm working, people are relying on me for their safety. I appreciate having a simple vehicle for this reason. However, again, l see no issue in making software upgrades and changes to allow for systems like stability control.

These changes must be introduced or the Defender will be no more....oh wait....it is no more.

If you are happy with your 200TDi....keep it....but for me....l want and look forward to some much needed improvements to safety.

Michael


Mike you can have your cake and eat it to!!!! The ESC will be introduced to the 2015 model year which starts from JULY 2014!!!!!!!:D


So if the last shipment is September this year, any made between july and then should have the ESC on 90/110 models.


Quote from carsguide article:
The 2015 model-year changes will be available from July 2014 production, and will also see stability control feature as standard on all Defender 90 and 110 models, adding to the existing ABS and traction control. Long-wheelbase Defender 130 models will also be available with ABS for the first time, but not the new stability control system.

[specwarop]

Are you guys reading that as the last Defender delivered to Australia, ever - will be Sept this year?

[frantic]

July .This. Year. they start to build 2015 mod year defenders(D4, RR, RRs etc) which means you almost certainly will not get the bling packages but you will get the ESC.
Unless you go now and do a special order, beg, as say the first special bling job, last car on the boat. But there would have to be other JLR shipments coming in between sept and December 2015 so I find it hard to understand if they are still ok to sell here until 2016? why they cannot do special orders until at least May or June next year.

[specwarop]

Well it just says that Sept that new White colour will be available, but wont be available to Oz. So September will be last shipment of Defender. But should be able to get the black/white packs if you like.

I am going to call the dealers here in WA for information, and to see if I can reserve a build date....

[scarry]

The DSC would have to have a switch to turn it off,or it won't have any off road ability.

Ask any D3/4 owner what happens in the rough stuff/sand when you forget to switch it off:mad:

[RecMec]

Hmm, thinking of discarding D2 for new Deffie, want the larger load space, don't know if arrival of DSC is enough to justify delaying the decision.

[Pickles2]

Well it just says that Sept that new White colour will be available, but wont be available to Oz. So September will be last shipment of Defender. But should be able to get the black/white packs if you like.

I am going to call the dealers here in WA for information, and to see if I can reserve a build date....
I will be interested in their response.
Pickles.

[specwarop]

Went to see a Dealer here in WA yesterday about the 2015 spec Defender and so forth.
He checked and there was only build dates available for April or May this year, which would mean delivery dates of July-Sept. He said he had no info on any other build dates after these dates. He also said that September is the likely date Defenders will be sent over to Australia.

So I thought about it for a bit, weighed up whether the 2015 spec was worth waiting for, and decided it wasnt. The advertised cosmetic changes would be great, but not that important to me. And the DSC would be nice, but really how necessary is it in a Defender. I also dont think the MY15 will come with much more than that.

So I booked in a build date, for July delivery.