Adjustable Panhard Rods

[mtb_gary]

Since installing the HRA 2" lift kit and Arnott Gen 111 bags I have been getting tyre rub with the 265/75/16's at maximum articulation on the chassis rail on the RHS rear due to the axle no longer being centred under the car. Thanks to others on the forum who have pinned it down to the Panhard rod that that needs lengthening when the vehicle is lifted. I am estimating approximately 10 mm is all that is needed. and so began the project.

Step 1. Source a second set of Panhard rods for modifying. These were sourced for $22 each from Linn Rover in Perth.

Step 2. Source adjusters. These were sourced from Technico Automotive Components in Melbourne. Cost for these to be custom made was $65 ea + $14 P&H. The bosses were bored to 30.05 mm and have 3/4" threads for the adjustment. The great thing about these adjusters is that the adjustment can be made with the Panhard rod attached to the car.

If anyone else is interested, Andrew at Technico Automotive Components has suggested a cheaper price is available for a group buy ;)

Step 3. Get them professionally welded. I have very basic welding skills with my ark welder, so for this vital part of the vehicle I elected not to do this job myself. I made contact with Mike at XLR8 Fabrication. The cost for cutting of the panhard rods, pressing on the bosses (they needed a bit of encouragement), then plug weld and circumferential weld the 4 bosses cost me a slab of Cougars (the drink not the women:wasntme:) at $70.
73098

Step 4. Get them painted in a rust proof paint

Step 5. Fit them on the car, adjust to cenralise the axle

Step 6. Get out and have some fun :D

So far I'm up to getting them painted when I get home this afternoon. I'll allow a couple of days for the pant to dry so all going well I should get them fitted over the weekend or Monday at the latest ;).

Total cost $258 for 2 adjustable Panhard rods

Gary

[davidsonsm]

Jolly good work. Top job. Get those wheels centred - but in which height position? The quandary. I'd favour in the highway height (former standard height'ish with lift). Then get an alignment.

[mtb_gary]

Jolly good work. Top job. Get those wheels centred - but in which height position? The quandary. I'd favour in the highway height (former standard height'ish with lift). Then get an alignment.


I was thinking half way between highway and standard as a compromise. Either way it's still going to be much loser to central than it currently sits, even at highway height.

Gary

[DANMAL]

That looks great! Gary, I agree somewhere between highway and standard heights, as the diff really starts to step out in standard height.. did you need to tell them the measurements of where to cut the rod or did you just give them the instructions supplied with the adjusters. .
Cheers
Sam

[mtb_gary]

That looks great! Gary, I agree somewhere between highway and standard heights, as the diff really starts to step out in standard height.. did you need to tell them the measurements of where to cut the rod or did you just give them the instructions supplied with the adjusters. .
Cheers
Sam


Sam
I had already done the first cut on each of the rods to determine the internal diameter of the rods, XLR8 cut the 102mm from one half of the rods for both front and rear. So much easier with a drop saw with a metal cutting blade than me with a hack saw ;). The instructions were just for how I wanted them welded, as the dimensions on the p38 adjusters are different to the instructions. The end of the Panhard rod on mine goes into the boss 30mm before it is seated. Then allow 102 mm for the remainder of the boss plus the adjusting nuts at their minimum setting. Effectively the rods when in their minimum length are equivalent in length to the originals.

Gary

[DANMAL]

Cool thanks for that, interested in seeing how it goes as I think, it seems only you and I are the only p38s with that rear right rubbing problem hahaha.. ill upload some photos I took the other day showing the limited flex on the right rear..
Sam

[DANMAL]

Ok just realized I took pic from wrong side:confused:but clearly other side has much more travel with still 2" before hits bumpstop

[FANTOM P38]

Been thinking about this since I fitted my Hard Range 2" lift & Gen III bags!
However my thoughts are along the lines of - why not just extend the original panhard rod mounts by extra 2"?? That compensates for 2" spacers!

Yet to get under & measure up everything, maybe you guys already looked at this option and decided to go down path of adjustable panhards.
Interested to hear any other thoughts on this!

[Keithy P38]

By lengthening the Panhard you increase the arc in which it sweeps, thus minimising potential return scrubbing issues. If the rod was simply moved across you could potentially move the scrubbing issue to the other tyre on that particular axle.

[davidsonsm]

Yeah that, plus it's not straightforward. The existing chassis brackets are a little more complicated than you'd imagine they should be.

[mtb_gary]

The rear bar is in :D. Expect a good workout on the wrench when undoing the bolts! These suckers are in tight. But they came out and the whole exchange of bars was straight forward. I haven't done any measrements yet but I did have a quick play at adjusting. As expected nice and easy.

Below are a few more pics of the process and of course the all important installed. See next post - I reached my maximum 5 pics :(

73348

73349

73350

73351

73352

[mtb_gary]

The remaining pictures

73353

73354

73355

73356

Now for testing and adjustment :D

Gary

[Keithy P38]

Looks the goods mate!

Adjustability is a good thing!

[PaulP38a]

Nice job Gary.

What have I been saying for years about 33" tyres? 255/85R16 and they don't scrub at the rear. That extra 10mm width on yours must be difference ;)

My old Hard Rangie did have an adjustable Panhard at the front, which Andy made up for me a few years back. Sorted the diff-offset on highway and standard height nicely.

I don't think he gets on here much these days, but I will ask him about it next time we speak.

Cheers, Paul.

[davidsonsm]

I picked up a couple of panhard rods this week from matar motors.

Will get the adjusters turned and push fitted next week.

Off topic, I also picked up a coolant expansion tank to mod with a level sensor. Plus an extra EAS air tank to double the on board air. And a pair of sway bar links. They'll be modded to make them in to quick disconnect links - once I figure out where to buy some precision tube.

[mtb_gary]

I picked up a couple of panhard rods this week from matar motors.

Will get the adjusters turned and push fitted next week.

Off topic, I also picked up a coolant expansion tank to mod with a level sensor. Plus an extra EAS air tank to double the on board air. And a pair of sway bar links. They'll be modded to make them in to quick disconnect links - once I figure out where to buy some precision tube.

Sean

That's quite a collection! Our Matar mates must love you!

The message back from Andrew at Technico Automotive

"The bars look great. Nice welding by your fabricator too.
At "very tight" i would say the pipe size is 30.11mm so i will make any future orders slightly larger for easier assembly.

Thanks for posting up the details on the forum, it's much appreciated. Be sure to give a yell if we can help out with anything else. As well as turned parts we also have CNC milling facilities so can make pretty much anything :)

We may have a nice engine mount upgrade available for you guys soon too, based on our torque master billet alloy/polyurethane mounts"

Andrew may be able to assist in the sway bar disconnect links? And not too far from your place in Dingley Village. Just let him know you found out about them from here and who knows we may have a very friendly fabricator on side ;)

Gary

[davidsonsm]

Great to forge these relationships. Always good to know a friendly machine shop.

Wonder what's driving the engine mount idea?

Yeah the guy at matar was pleased with the start to his day. He has a treasure trove of a shed. There was a lovely looking 3.0 turbo diesel and gearbox sitting on the floor out of a 95 D3. Would suit brave p38 owner wishing engine transplant.

He rocked up in a navy blue p38 with 33" muddies and a HRA lift kit that was for sale. I wonder how many of those lift kits paul sold?

Matar's own p38 was a rather nice example burgundy example with bull bar and snorkel. Tried to get him on the forum.

[clubagreenie]

Do you have a contact number for Andrew as I'll be after an adjuster to remake the D2's front rod.

[mtb_gary]

Do you have a contact number for Andrew as I'll be after an adjuster to remake the D2's front rod.

No contact numbers, only an email address. Andrew was fairly prompt on his return emails.

technico@live.com.au

Gary

[clubagreenie]

Thanks. I looked under the name Technicolor in melb but what came up didnt seem too promising.

Will be in touch.

Tell me did you do any reinforcing or the rod itself while you had access to the centre? I was originally looking at cutting the original, plus a section of a spare damaged rod to make the new required length (fixed) plus adding a solid insert. Welding the insert to the outer via cross drilled holes down its length and filleting the joins and welding and grinding/turning flush to finish.

Downside is you need to get it perfectly right the first time. Upside is it looks perfectly stock.

[mtb_gary]

Not "Technicolor" but "Technico", as in:

Technico Racing (http://technicoracing.com/cs/)

No additional reinforcement was done for the fit up. Once the lock nuts are tightened up it feels rock solid. I guess only time will tell as to its long term durability.

Gary

[clubagreenie]

Damn auto correct.

[mtb_gary]

Damn auto correct.
;):D

Gary

[davidsonsm]

Prepared the spare set of panhard rods today.

Ill get the 7/8" weld stud turned down to press fit inside the rod. And the same at the other end on the adjuster. Then welded. Then painted.

Jobs a good un.

7361473615

[mtb_gary]

The front rod is now in place.
73786
As an observation when removing the original rod the chassis of the car moved sideways around 10mm when I was working on the rear Panhard rod. At the time I thought nothing of it and because I had the ability to extend the length of the rod on my new one simply wound the thread out to suit (plus this was where I was going to extend the rod anyway). This morning I fitted the front one, and exactly the same occurred. As the original Panhard rod was removed the chassis moved around 10mm in the direction of the RHS requiring once again a lengthening of the Panhard rod to refit.
73787
Coincidence? I think not:angel:. The car was set at "standard height to make room under the car for working, which was the same height that prior to the fitting of the Panhard rods I had determined that I needed around 10mm more length on the rod due to the 2" suspension lift. Removing the original Panhard rod the car seems to have centred itself over the axle :D. A few measurements from wheel to chassis front and back as well as a visual inspection of eyeing up the wheels in reference to the guards verified the positioning.

Sean, it will be interesting to see if you experience the same when you do yours ;).

Gary

[davidsonsm]

So the car self centres without the panhard rods. Interesting. What would centre the car over the axles? You'd imagine it would flop to one side.

That's great. Well done Gary. Any idea at this stage, how far out the centreline of the axle is in highway height?

Are you planning a wheel alignment now?

[mtb_gary]

So the car self centres without the panhard rods. Interesting. What would centre the car over the axles? You'd imagine it would flop to one side.

That's great. Well done Gary. Any idea at this stage, how far out the centreline of the axle is in highway height?

Are you planning a wheel alignment now?

My guess only! A combination of radius arms and air springs finding the point of the least resistance. I'm not an engineer (or even close) but I can't see any other reason for the self centering. I haven't measured the highway setting yet, maybe later today or tomorrow.

As for the wheel alignment, I'll take it for a drive over the weekend (furniture removal for my step son and his wife who are moving house) and see how it behaves ;).

Gary

Gary

[clubagreenie]

With coils it'll centre itself well as they try to re-establish themselves vertically. The airsprings will do pretty much the same, the pressure will just try to push it into the correct shape. Any stored tension in bushes will also push itself back to neutral.

[Keithy P38]

Makes sense to me! The Panhard rod has a hard job!

[DANMAL]

Been thinking about this since I fitted my Hard Range 2" lift & Gen III bags!
However my thoughts are along the lines of - why not just extend the original panhard rod mounts by extra 2"?? That compensates for 2" spacers!

Yet to get under & measure up everything, maybe you guys already looked at this option and decided to go down path of adjustable panhards.
Interested to hear any other thoughts on this!

martin i think you should take a look at yours because remember how you told me that your left rear sensor keeps popping off and i told you its probably because the diff is off center.. id say now its defenately your problem.

[davidsonsm]

I added the adjusters to the rods I'd acquired, on Wednesday this week.

A friendly chap at the local Land Rover independent garage let me user their lathe and press. Oh what fun. Hard to imagine how you can possibly live without a lathe. And a press of course. I'll get him a slab of his tipple in return.

So with the weld studs and adjusters pressed in I welded them up. Then cleaned them up and painted them with this end result. Just got to fit them now.

7425474255

[mtb_gary]

Well done. It's a very popular currency, is the liquid currency. Mine cost me a slab of cougars ;).

Gary

[mtb_gary]

All complete now both front and rear, and re-centred the steering based on the steering wheel position, with the panhard rod adjusted the steering wheel position was out by 1/3 of a turn to the left.
Whilst measuring the gaps between the rear wheels and chassis I noticed the EAS heights were slightly out (12mm between left and right in standard height). No problem :angel: I'll hook up the laptop and tweak the values....wrong! The minimum and maximum values that are supposed to be available did not work in this instance :confused: so I have now changed the length of the height sensor arms on the rears to compensate and now I'm back in operation.
This weekend depending on sea conditions I will be either towing the boat (Sea Rover) down to the boat ramp to head offshore for some snapper and if we're really lucky some dhu fish or off into Julimar Forest for some serious 4x4ing. Either way it looks like a fun weekend ahead :D:D

Gary

[Keithy P38]

Love your work mate

[DANMAL]

All complete now both front and rear, and re-centred the steering based on the steering wheel position, with the panhard rod adjusted the steering wheel position was out by 1/3 of a turn to the left.


Gary

Hi Gary, great work mate! I've contacted Andrew from technico, in the process of getting them made as we speak. I'm a little confused on the steering issue you mentioned, how did you adjust your steering? From the steering rod? .
Cheers

[mtb_gary]

DANMAL, yes just the steering rod. I left the drag link unchanged as it controls the toe in/toe out. I should probably take it for a proper wheel alignment but during the test drive it performed beautifully with no pulling to the side when braking or driving and self centred when taking the hands off the wheel (carefully!).

Gary

[mtb_gary]

A quick check for flexing in the driveway this morning....all looking good! And it keeps the neighbours amused :D

74428

74429

74430

Gary

[davidsonsm]

Wow. Impressive. Good work once again.

[Keithy P38]

Very impressive mate! Looks all innocent in grandpa-spec wheels, them BAM! Flexes like a pro!

[mtb_gary]

"Grandpa-spec" thats a new description for the road wheel/tyre combo :D

Gary

[clubagreenie]

Yes, when you "pull" the diff across it pushes the drop arm across (to the right(or turns the wheels to the left if the steering wheel remains centred)) so the drag link need to be adjusted. The track rod stays fixed to maintain toe.

[mtb_gary]

I got my terminology wrong :o. It was the drag link I changed (the one that has the steering damper attached to it).

Gary

[DANMAL]

I got my terminology wrong :o. It was the drag link I changed (the one that has the steering damper attached to it).

Gary

Your forgiven gary haha, although I get confused between those 2 rods on the front.. which one is the track rod?

[benji]

Garry I'm a bit relieved I'm not the only one who entertains the neighbours like that in the driveway.

Was your drivers side front on the bumpstop? It looks like it's got more to go!

[mtb_gary]

No, still had a bit more to go at the front :D. The back would have been pretty much on it's limit.

Gary

[clubagreenie]

Track rod adjusts track, well the track on one side of the wheel which altered the toe. The other is the drag link (remembered by "it drags all the other bits around"). It adjusts steering centre.

On a D2 there's a stop on the drop arm which holds the steering box at straight ahead when aligned and you screw a bolt through it. Then adjust track rod for toe, then drag link for "parallels" making the wheels straight in relation to the vehicle.

[Scouse]

For those without the welding skills to make your own adjustable panhard rods, Whiteline Suspension may be an option.


Here's a front rod on eBay:
Whiteline W83100 Suspension Part Front Land Rover Range Rover 1994 2002 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Whiteline-W83100-Suspension-part-Front-LAND-ROVER-RANGE-ROVER-1994-2002-/181361466881?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3ARange+Rover&hash=item2a39fc5e01)


I assume they do a rear too.

[Scouse]

This one's $60 cheaper as it's on 'sale':
Whiteline W83100 Suspension Part Front Land Rover Range Rover 1994 2002 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Whiteline-W83100-Suspension-part-Front-LAND-ROVER-RANGE-ROVER-1994-2002-/161192889785?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3ARange+Rover&hash=item2587d84db9)

[davidsonsm]

Amazing find given the eBay listing description.

[Scouse]

Amazing find given the eBay listing description.They also sell camber correction screws:
Whiteline KCA414 Camber Correction Screw Front Land Rover Range Rover 1998 2002 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Whiteline-KCA414-Camber-Correction-Screw-Front-LAND-ROVER-RANGE-ROVER-1998-2002-/151211457936?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3ARange+Rover&hash=item2334e7bd90)


I wonder how they work.......

[mtb_gary]

And why only 1998-2002? I hadn't realized the suspension changed after 1998.

Gary

[Keithy P38]

Are they adjustable? I can justify $200 on a panhard if it means no mucking around!

[davidsonsm]

They sure look adjustable. Whether theyre "on vehicle adjustable", not sure. But that's no biggy.

[Scouse]

While some of their pictures appear to show generic suspension systems, the rod does look like a P38 one & the description is: WHITELINE Suspension part Front - Panhard rod - complete adjustable assembly

If you go to Whiteline's website, you can track down a closer supplier who may do a better price but $200 including postage is a decent deal in my book.

[TheTree]

Hi

Inetresinglym the one on Ebay W83100 which says Range Rover 94-2002, if you search on the whiteline site, it says it's for a D2

Whiteline w83100 Panhard rod - complete adjustable assembly (http://www.whiteline.com.au/product_detail4.php?part_number=w83100)

Steve

[clubagreenie]

It also says LHD only and suits all D2's which doesn't allow for the change in length between D2/D2a which is more than could be allowed for in adjustment.

[Keithy P38]

I guess they can't make up their mind what they wanted it to fit!

[TheTree]

Hi

They have these adjustable sway bar links for a P38 though

Whiteline KLC180-090 Sway bar - link assembly heavy duty adjustable ball/ball style (http://www.whiteline.com.au/product_detail4.php?part_number=KLC180-090)

Steve

[davidsonsm]

Put my adjustable rear rod on today. Jeese the chasis bolt was tight. The axle bolt a little easier.

I've set the new rod up to be central in standard height. Reckon it was only a 10mm extension on the length of the rod. As per Gary's experience.

Hope to get the front one done tomorrow.

75900

[Keithy P38]

Gary mentioned to me that they can be a bit... err... tight!

Good to see it on!

[davidsonsm]

Put the front adjustable panhard rod on this morning. Much quicker when you know spanner/socket sizes. Once again - about 10mm out.

Will get a wheel alignment next.

Had to adjust drag link slightly.

Will probably remove and swap the bushes for those ive taken off. They were poly bushes fitted in the last couple of years. Better than those ive just installed.

I also greased all the prop shaft nipples whilst under there and tightened the bottom nuts on each of the shockers - prompted by others. They were too slack.

[davidsonsm]

Photo to prove it:

76052

Next job is to fit the extended sway bar links (with disconnect feature).

[Keithy P38]

Looking good mate!

[mtb_gary]

Keith, you're next in line ;)

Gary

[Keithy P38]

Certainly am!