Why South Australia?

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I cant see any of them being used below the tropic of capricorn--

New P 8A's (http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/abbott-government-to-spend-4b-on-new-patrol-aircraft-20140221-335t4.html)

[BigJon]

Because there is a state election coming up?

[Pedro_The_Swift]

:rolleyes::rolleyes:
surely not--

[driftwagon]

Why not Tasmania then :p we have a state election soon

[BMKal]

Naaaah ...................

Should be WA .............................. we've got a Senate election coming up. :p

[Mick_Marsh]

Where are the Orions currently based?

[ramblingboy42]

South Australia....Edinburgh.

Have been for a long time.

[Mick_Marsh]

I see.
Whenever Mr Swift replaces that old, cracked toilet seat, he expects to build a new toilet in a different room of the house for the new seat.

[Basil135]

Royal Australian Air Force's Base Edinburgh is 25kms north of Adelaide. It is primarily home to No 92 Wing's AP-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft that conduct surveillance operations throughout Australia's airspace, and Aerospace Operational Support Group Headquarters.

No 92 Wing - maritime operations
No 10 Squadron - AP-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft
No 11 Squadron - AP-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I see.
Whenever Mr Swift replaces that old, cracked toilet seat, he expects to build a new toilet in a different room of the house for the new seat.

[with all due respect to Basil],,
I'd expect, Mr Marsh, the employees to be near the workplace. If I had a 5000klm drive to work every day I'd go broke.

Lucky I'm not paying for all that kero,,

wait a minute-- :angel:

[Chucaro]

Why they are based in SA??
Perhaps it is to stop the invaders from Tasmania :confused:
They should move it to NT or far north Qld.
...........I am going to cope some .........with this post :angel:

[Basil135]

Edinburgh was my old base.

Love those old birds. And the planes were nice too.. :D


Just for giggles, if the pilots had some VIP's or newbies on board, they would turn a couple of the fans off, citing that it was getting a bit chilly. Those would be the fans on the outside.....on the wings.... that keep them moving forward.

SOP was they could run on 2, for extended range, but there might have been the odd occasion that only 1 was needed.. ;)

[Mick_Marsh]

[with all due respect to Basil],,
I'd expect, Mr Marsh, the employees to be near the workplace. If I had a 5000klm drive to work every day I'd go broke.

Lucky I'm not paying for all that kero,,

wait a minute-- :angel:
Surely operational matters take them all around the Australian coast.

[ramblingboy42]

It doesn't matter where they are based.

Once in the sky , they hook up to every possible radio, satellite, transmission they can moniter.

They maintain constant contact with all our allies and I believe there is never a moment when one of them isn't airborne.

I have indulged in a flight with 92 Wing and it is an amazing experience.

You see things you are never allowed to discuss and some things they dont let you see.

If any of you ever have the opportunity to indulge in a reconnaisance flight do not hestitate.

They are very serious, you must attend pre flight training and briefings, you all eat different meals at different times, made by different cooks.

The P-8's will be awesome in the role.....cabin space.

[bob10]

I cant see any of them being used below the tropic of capricorn--

New P 8A's (http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/abbott-government-to-spend-4b-on-new-patrol-aircraft-20140221-335t4.html)


If you see the RAAF infrastructure already there, and the fact we have/ will have air to air refuelling tankers, it makes good economic sense to base them there, Bob


RAAF Units

Surveillance and Response Group RAAF - No 92 Wing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._92_Wing_RAAF) - maritime operations


10SQNNo. 10 Squadron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._10_Squadron_RAAF) - Orion maritime patrol aircraft


11SQNNo. 11 Squadron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._11_Squadron_RAAF) - Orion maritime patrol aircraft


Others292SQNNo. 292 Squadron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._292_Squadron_RAAF) - Air and Ground crew training1RSU


No. 1 Radar Surveillance Unit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._1_Radar_Surveillance_Unit_RAAF)44WG DET EDN


No. 44 Wing Detachment Edinburgh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._44_Wing_RAAF) - Australian air traffic control - Aerospace Operational Support Group RAAF - WInformation Warfare Wing RAAF - (TU 646.7.1)JEWOSUJoint Electronic Warfare Operational Support UnitRAAF AISRAAF Aeronautical Information Service87SQN


No. 87 Squadron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._87_Squadron_RAAF) - Air Intelligence462SQN


No. 462 Squadron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._462_Squadron_RAAF) - information securityAir Systems Development and Test Wing (TU 646.7.2)AFTSAircraft Research and Development Unit RAAF - (ARDU) Flight Test Squadron (AFTS)ASESARDU Systems Engineering Squadron (ASES)ASCEAAircraft/Stores Compatibility Engineering Agency (ASCEA)AVMEDInstitute of Aviation Medicine (AVMED)


Woomera Test Range - (TU 646.7.3)HQWTRHeadquarters Woomera Test Range (HQWTR)WTROPSWTR Range Operations BranchWRARAAF Woomera Airfield -WPAWoomera Prohibited AreaWTRENGWTR Range Engineering Bra1AFDS


No. 1 Airfield Defence Squadron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._1_Airfield_Defence_Squadron_RAAF) - Airfield Defence Guards24SQN


No. 24 Squadron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._24_Squadron_RAAF) - RAAF Edinburgh Combat Support

[bob10]

Besides, it's a moot point, when you consider where they actually go, Bob




The best intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance aircraft in the world

(http://www.cartenav.com/index.php/testimonials/details/the_best_intelligence_surveillance_and_reconnaissa nce_aircraft_in_the_world/) AP-3C Orion Fleet, Royal Australian Air Force (http://www.asdnews.com/news/25791/AF_AP-3C_Orions_-_7_Years_of_Continuous_Middle_East_Operations_.htm )


AIMS-ISR™ is the situational awareness solution of choice for what Aerospace & Defence News calls “the best intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance aircraft in the world” – the Royal Australian Air Force’s AP-3C Orion fleet.
Published on ASDNews: Jan 29, 2010

Air Force AP-3C Orions have achieved an extraordinary seven years of continuous Middle East operations, providing crucial support to Australian and coalition forces.

Chief of Air Force, Air Marshal (AIRMSHL) Mark Binskin said the Orions had flown more than 1750 missions involving 16500 flying hours supporting Operations Bastille, Falconer, Catalyst and Slipper.

During the past 7 years the Orion crews have conducted overland intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) tasks in Afghanistan and Iraq, maritime patrols of the Persian Gulf and North Arabian Sea and more recently, counter-piracy missions in the vicinity of Somalia, working closely with the US-led Combined Maritime Force (CMF) and other international task forces.

"This milestone is a great tribute to the men and women of Air Force's Surveillance and Response Group who have worked long hours flying and maintaining the Orions. Maintenance staff have often worked in 50C plus temperatures to achieve a very high aircraft availability rate," AIRMSHL Binskin said.

The RAAF Orion detachment in the Middle East includes approximately 88 people and two aircraft.

"The support provided by members of Air Force's Combat Support Group, Maritime Patrol Systems Program Office and Aerospace Operational Support Group have been vital to the Orions' achievements in the Middle East."

RAAF's AP-3C Orions are among the best intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance aircraft in the world. Orions can transmit real-time surveillance pictures, providing essential situational awareness to commanders on the ground.

Many of the Orions' other capabilities are classified. The sensitive nature of much of the Orions' ISR work means their contribution to the Australian Defence Force's mission success in the Middle East is not always publicly recognised.

"Many of our AP-3C Orion people have done four and in some cases five deployments to the Middle East. I understand the impact this has on personal lives and I thank their families and friends in Australia for the vital support they provide," AIRMSHL Binskin said.

In addition to ongoing work in the Middle East, Air Force Orions also provide significant support to Operation Resolute, patrolling Australia's northern maritime approaches.

Source : Mod Australia

[Ralph1Malph]

It's also a matter of personnel.
Just because the public seem to think that military assets should be based in 'god forsaken butt hole locations', you have to remember that Defence has to man them!

As a Soldier, I can tell you that Darwin, NW Cape, Tindal and other butthole places do not recruit that well at all!

If the Orions move from Edinburgh, RAAF won't be able to crew them!

In the same vein as teachers, coppers and tradesmen can't be enticed to move to bollocks locations, ADF members likewise want decent schools for their kids, nice homes that aren't in the 'western battlegrounds' and access to good medical specialists!

Cheers
Ralph

[bob10]

It's also a matter of personnel.
Just because the public seem to think that military assets should be based in 'god forsaken butt hole locations', you have to remember that Defence has to man them!

As a Soldier, I can tell you that Darwin, NW Cape, Tindal and other butthole places do not recruit that well at all!

If the Orions move from Edinburgh, RAAF won't be able to crew them!

In the same vein as teachers, coppers and tradesmen can't be enticed to move to bollocks locations, ADF members likewise want decent schools for their kids, nice homes that aren't in the 'western battlegrounds' and access to good medical specialists!

Cheers
Ralph


I understand what you are saying, but we must be from a different generation. I joined at 15, joined my first ship at 19, after an apprenticeship. Joined it Monday morning,0800, sailed for NZ 10.00. 1968. Each year after that, spent at least 6 to 9 months away, until 1975, when I was posted ashore. Met & married a wonderful woman, our first child was born while I was on the way to Hawaii, for RIMPAC exercises. Came home, another child conceived, I saw him born. At Manly hospital Sydney.


Then sailed for England for the Queens Silver Jubilee, for about 7 months. Came back, into refit, got piped to the Engineers office. they needed someone to go to Darwin, ASAP. Two of us were overdue for shore time, quick story, I went home, asked the wife, she said yes, told the Engineer , he sent a signal. Another short story, piped to the office Friday , good news, bad news, good news, I'm going to Darwin, bad news , I fly out tomorrow. My wife had to organise the removal, etc, with the help of her brother, who lived next door.


Whilst in Darwin, did a bit of shore time, then joined a patrol boat. 6 weeks out 1 to 2 weeks in. Year round. None of this refugee bull****, we boarded foreign fishing boats, doing a real job. Sometimes armed. That's another story. Then to Sydney, new patrol boat , Bass strait oil rig patrols.
6 Weeks out, one in , perhaps two. Year round. Left in 1985. Am I complaining? Not on your life. I joined to do a job, not get one. Still married to my wonderful wife after 39 years. The only complaint? She got so used to managing the family finances, She wont give that back. Probably just as well, Bob ;)

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Ok,, I asked an innocent question,,
and got a great answer;)

here's another,,


what do we do with the old Orions?

[Mick_Marsh]

How many have we got?
I'd like to see quite a few gifted to museums. One could go to that museum in Darwin with the B52. I hope they keep a few flying for air shows too.

[digger]

Ok,, I asked an innocent question,,
and got a great answer;)

here's another,,


what do we do with the old Orions?

I assume we will gift them to Indonesia as they apparently have to keep an eye on their waters, some cheeky bugger apparently recently 'invaded' their waters...:angel:

also that way they can whinge and whine about us and keep a better eye on us and threat etc

[ramblingboy42]

There are , I believe , 19 of them. They are in excellent condition and if not sold partly gutted to another country, they would be very good freighters.

They were , ie the a/c type designed as longhaul international passenger a/c shortly prior to jets and competed on the jet routes for a long time.

They are not much slower over most routes than a jet, but the 737 derived P-8 is just so much better an aircraft.....in every role.

[Sitec]

I know little about Edinburgh, but I used to drive past there daily, and have several mates who work there... Its established, its in reach of a lot of employees...(and there'll be a whole lot more looking for work with the inevitable demise of Holden). When you look at the map, apart from Uluru, North Adelaide is fairly central to all other major cities. Edinburgh is also in a good location as the runway leads out over farmland, something which would prob be hard to find 30min from the center of Sydney, Brisbane, Perth, Melbourne.... Having come in from the outside, Adelaide and SA seems to be forgotten with lots of stuff... We need this, and I think its great. Re the Orions... They're fantastic, and if they're as good as someone earlier said they are... then why are we replacing them??? And NO, they don't need giving away!! They need keeping and utilising within Australia!! Its about time Australia started lookin after itself, its borders and its people rather than becoming too open. It all happened yeas ago in the UK, and they are now in a very slippery downhill slope!

[4runnernomore]

The fleet is ageing and have been refitted at least once (airframe hours).

as good as they are are and the "product" they produce they are becoming tired.

unfortunately like everything replacing them cost money just like replacing your car.

with the retirement of the H model herc's there is no longer a common engine in the airforce fleet like the hmodel herc's and Orion's share.

I believe a few of them will go to New Zealand to replace their A model Orion's.

cheers, Chris

[UncleHo]

They will probably go to Indo like our 4 Hercs have that will keep the engines a compatable :) then they could be used to spot fish shoals so that our old patrol boats can net them :p

[zulu Delta 534]

I too could never quite understand why our Anti Submarine Squadron was stationed in South Australia rather than in the northern part of the country, where I assumed the major requirement would be, until I happened to make this very same statement to a person in the know.
This person enlightened me about a rather unique logistical hurdle we have in Australia called the "GAFA" and this "GAFA" stretches for miles and miles in all directions. (Anyone who has flown across the continent has seen it).
If one was to roughly draw a circle around Australia's coastline and then look for the most centrally located populated spot, with logistical resupply access suitable for an airbase, you may understand why Edinburgh is the obvious choice. By basing the aircraft here in Edinburgh it involves the least amount of travel over the GAFA (Great Australian "F" All) regardless of to which ocean the aircraft is deployed, therefore saving deployment time as well as fuel costs and when one takes into consideration the size of our coastline, it is fairly logical.
Regards
Glen

[Bushie]

Strangely I thought we had a fairly substantial coastline, a fair bit of it is around the southern side of the country, sure the current issues are to the north, but we also need to keep the southern side under some degree of surveillance, even if it only picks up the off Japanese whaler in the area :o


Martyn

[Damo89]

None of this refugee bull****, we boarded foreign fishing boats, doing a real job. Sometimes armed.

Jesus mate, that is a bit of a naive and insulting comment!

[Basil135]

Jesus mate, that is a bit of a naive and insulting comment!

You need to realise that it was a different world back then.

The Indo fishing boats would do more than just fish in Australian waters. They were, and still are, known to move drugs quite easily that way.

It is just these days, the focus is on the "refugee" boats, and not the fishing boats.

[bob10]

Jesus mate, that is a bit of a naive and insulting comment!
It wasn't meant to be insulting, just a statement of fact. If you are in the job, look up the R.O.P's of the Patrol boats back in the late 70's, & 80's. I appreciate the fact the Navy is involved in operations with refugees, and is doing a professional job, as it always has. As said, things were very different back in the day, when Patrol Boats were the hardest working Fleet units, and for a while, were the only truly operational Fleet units, as opposed to being on exercise. Naïve? I lost that after Vietnam. No offence meant, Bob

[Damo89]

Yep, lost my naivety after active war service too, best take a look at what the Army does up that way. Its not just Indo's smuggling stuff that the Navy picks up. Not much has changed guys.

[bob10]

Yep, lost my naivety after active war service too, best take a look at what the Army does up that way. Its not just Indo's smuggling stuff that the Navy picks up. Not much has changed guys.


When I was in Darwin, Norforce [ Jawforce to the regs] were training men to handle horses & packhorses, and more indigenous soldiers were being recruited. There was no better intelligence network than the local indigenous people, and having members of their tribal group in the Independent Company, speaking the language, worked. I knew a couple of the Cadre staff for Norforce, and, being Vietnam veterans, their opinion of some of the Company as soldiers was , I guess, naturally not high. But they all agreed, as intelligence gatherers, they were very, very good. The Patrol boats not only dealt with Indonesian fishing boats, but Taiwanese long liners as well as the occasional drug smuggler. And Trochus shell pirates. The only boats we towed in were fishing boats under arrest. Haven't heard much about that for a while. Let's hope the focus on refugees hasn't taken the focus off illegal fishing. They will be having a field day. They take everything. Bob