Nulon 75W-90 full synthetic gear oil.

[ugu80]

Went looking for Castrol Syntrans (or Motul Gear 300) for the R-380 manual gearbox at local auto shops and the only alternative I could find, off the shelf, was the Nulon 75W-90 fully synthetic gear oil. Reads okay on their website, but so does Valvoline which failed miserably on independent testing I found on the web. Has anyone had any experience or could comment on the suitability of the subject Nulon for the R380?

[mick88]

One thing that has me wondering is:
What is "fully synthetic" oil made from?

Cheers, mick.

[incisor]

i tried nulon and i thought it was crap..

syntrans is wayyyy much better product

(tried on my wife's hi-ace camper)

[Don 130]

After using syntrans in my gearbox and finding it seemed to loose it's capacity to maintain good shift characteristics, I've recently put a Penrite syn gear oil in it. It's still early days, but good shifting is back and I'll be watching to see if it lasts till the 20,000km change time which the syntrans didn't quite make. The price is also much better.
Don.

[ugu80]

Thanks for that. I have always used the Penrite 70w-75 Pro Gear but I wanted to try the Syntrans for its higher temperature rating. My problem is availability here.

[harro]

IIRC Nulon 75w-90 is a GL5 and the spec for the R380 is GL4 which is the Nulon 75w-85 smooth shift however as Inc says it is not that good in the R380 anyway.

FWIW The Penrite 75w-85 fully synthetic was far better in my R380.
And the Penrite Transgear 75w-80 is almost identical in spec to MTF94 (LR recommended lube for the R380) although I haven't tried it.

Cheers,
Paul.

[ugu80]

Cairns is nice but winter here is COLD[bigsad]. I'll stick with the Penrite 70W-75, it has done me well so far.

What I did find of interest is that all the oil manufactures web sites, when you list a 300tdi Defender in their lubricants search, recommend ATF for the gearbox except Penrite, which list their 70W-75 Pro Gear. Perhaps none of the others know about the Land Rover memo a dozen or more years ago recommending low viscosity gear oil. Another thing I found was; too bad we don't get AMSOIL.

[ugu80]

One thing that has me wondering is:
What is "fully synthetic" oil made from?

Cheers, mick.
Just for you, Mick.

"Synthetic oil is a lubricant consisting of chemical compounds that are artificially made (synthesized). Synthetic lubricants can be manufactured using chemically modified petroleum components rather than whole crude oil, but can also be synthesized from other raw materials."

"It is made through a chemical process known as the Fischer-Tropsch process, starting with raw materials like methane, carbon monoxide, and carbon dioxide. This process was developed by Germany in WWII, when that country's access to crude oil was very limited."

[harro]

Cairns is nice but winter here is COLD[bigsad]. I'll stick with the Penrite 70W-75, it has done me well so far.

What I did find of interest is that all the oil manufactures web sites, when you list a 300tdi Defender in their lubricants search, recommend ATF for the gearbox except Penrite, which list their 70W-75 Pro Gear. Perhaps none of the others know about the Land Rover memo a dozen or more years ago recommending low viscosity gear oil. Another thing I found was; too bad we don't get AMSOIL.


Just had a look at the Penrite Lube Guide and 70w-75 is recommended for the 300tdi R380 as you have said which was news to me.
And yet the Td5 R380 recommended lube is the 75w-80 Transgear?
I know there have been slight changes to the R380 over the years but I didn't realise the actual gear oil spec would be different.
But good to see neither recommendation is ATF anymore.

Learn something every day:D

[Don 130]

Penrite's lube guide suggests GEAR OIL 80W-90 for the transfer. I need to do this soon. Any one used this and is it any good?
Don

[harro]

Penrite's lube guide suggests GEAR OIL 80W-90 for the transfer. I need to do this soon. Any one used this and is it any good?
Don

Hi Don,
I use the Penrite Pro Gear 75w-90 in T/case and diffs.
Although the Lube Guide suggests Gear Oil 80w-90 the Pro Gear is a full Synthetic GL5 which I believe is better up here for the heat.
But it is a fair bit more expensive.

Cheers,
Paul.

[ugu80]

Penrite's lube guide suggests GEAR OIL 80W-90 for the transfer. I need to do this soon. Any one used this and is it any good?
Don

If its Penrite it's good.

I've always used Penrite for everything but I've got Trans Gear 75w-90 semi synthetic in the transfer case. IMHO semi or full synthetic is always better than straight mineral. I use Pro Gear 80w-140 full synthetic in my diffs (as one mechanic said to me, "I think that's a bit of overkill", but, like the gearbox, the Salisbury's do run hot).

Another interesting point is Penrite recommend their semi-synthetic HPR15 diesel over their full synthetic HPR15 for the 300tdi as the semi-synthetic has better soot suspension qualities than the fully synthetic.

[ugu80]

I fired off an e-mail to Penrite Technical department:

I have a 1996 Defender and have religiously used Penrite Pro Gear 70w-75 in the R380 gearbox. There has been a shift away from Pro Gear for the R380 to Castrol Syntrans 75w-85 by both private and better specialist Land Rover service workshops as it reputedly gives a better, smoother shift with a higher temperature protection rating. As you will know, the R380 gearbox has an inadequate oil capacity which makes the box run hot, especially in slow offroad situations. I was just wondering what you recommend to give better protection and shift quality at high temperature (as in offroading) while still providing the cold viscosity required by the gearbox oil pump.

Here is the reply:

Based on your enquiry regarding your vehicle our recommendation is:

ProGear 75W-85 (Formerly known as SIN Man Trans).

[Robmacca]

Hey Guys, reopening an old post.....

I might have made a blue in that I too thought that the Defender Gearbox (R380) ran a ATF for the Gearbox and some months ago, I bought some to service my R380, but as yet haven't gotten around to replace the Gearbox Oil. From what I've read, I now should not be using ATF in my R380 Gearbox?

or can I? I live Queensland so no real cold weather as such.....




Cairns is nice but winter here is COLD. I'll stick with the Penrite 70W-75, it has done me well so far.

What I did find of interest is that all the oil manufactures web sites, [B]when you list a 300tdi Defender in their lubricants search, recommend ATF for the gearbox except Penrite, which list their 70W-75 Pro Gear. Perhaps none of the others know about the Land Rover memo a dozen or more years ago recommending low viscosity gear oil. Another thing I found was; too bad we don't get AMSOIL.

[scarry]

i tried nulon and i thought it was crap..

syntrans is wayyyy much better product

(tried on my wife's hi-ace camper)

I have it in two of our Hi Ace vans manual gearboxes,including the one i drive,no problems so far.

FWIW,the Toyota stuff OEM(which is not available,even from toyota) does 200 000km,but the problem is they don't change at at the 200 000km,so buy around 280000km the vehicle has one whining gearbox[bigsad]

[incisor]

it maybe "ok" but it definitely isn't anywhere near as good.

seen it too many times now.

once gear changes start to slow down using the nylon, change to syntrans and after a couple of weeks the difference is obvious.

have yet to see it not improve a box running nylon..

always prepared for a first time tho :p

[Robmacca]

Hey Guys, reopening an old post.....

I might have made a blue in that I too thought that the Defender Gearbox (R380) ran a ATF for the Gearbox and some months ago, I bought some to service my R380, but as yet haven't gotten around to replace the Gearbox Oil. From what I've read, I now should not be using ATF in my R380 Gearbox?

or can I? I live Queensland so no real cold weather as such.....

Found the following on the castrol website:
Manual Transmission
Service Refill Capacity: 2.7 Litres. See note 416 (http://www.datateck.com.au/lube/castr_au/#idNote416) below.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/04/523.jpg
CASTROL ATF DEX III
An automatic transmission and power steering fluid for use in GM automatic transmissions pre 2005 and in many automatic transmissions where DEXRON® (II or III) or MERCON® performance is required.

NOTE 416 states:

416With R380 manual transmission. For severe applications or towing use CASTROL SYNTRANS 75W-85.

My question: What is classed as "Severe applications"? -- Is 4WDriving classed as Severe?

[incisor]

driving in heavy traffic every day is classed as severe :p

[rick130]

Rob, MTF94, a 75W-80 dedicated manual transmission fluid superseded ATF as the R380 fluid from 1996 or 7, it was Land Rover's factory and dealer fill from then on.

There's heaps of info here in The Good Oil on why, alternatives, etc.

[CraigE]

I prefer Penrite and have been running it, however when I could not get Penrite I did run Nulon and found it to be fine. When changed did not appear to be any overheating - burning of oil, colour had not changed. Syntrans is ok as well but way overpriced and no better than Penrite IMHO.

[PAT303]

Hey Guys, reopening an old post.....

I might have made a blue in that I too thought that the Defender Gearbox (R380) ran a ATF for the Gearbox and some months ago, I bought some to service my R380, but as yet haven't gotten around to replace the Gearbox Oil. From what I've read, I now should not be using ATF in my R380 Gearbox?

or can I? I live Queensland so no real cold weather as such.....

Mate,do yourself a favour,run Redline MTL.I"ve run it in temps from freezing Kalgoorlie winter's to boiling Newman summers with not issue's what so ever.I'll disagree with every poster on this forum over this,MTL is better than ANY oil or fluid in the R380,and I think I've used them all. Pat

[Robmacca]

Mate,do yourself a favour,run Redline MTL.I"ve run it in temps from freezing Kalgoorlie winter's to boiling Newman summers with not issue's what so ever.I'll disagree with every poster on this forum over this,MTL is better than ANY oil or fluid in the R380,and I think I've used them all. Pat

Pat, where can u source MTL from?

btw: What does MTL stand for?

[PhilipA]

MTL= Manual Transmission Light AFAIR.
Regards Philip A

[PAT303]

Pat, where can u source MTL from?

btw: What does MTL stand for?

I got it from an ebay supplier.$120 for 3 litres delivered. Pat

[rangieman]

I dont disagree here But i will say every gearbox is different and will react differently with different drivers , conditions , oil`s and climates even if the gear box came out from the same manufacture [wink11]
So in my opinion try what oil is suggested here (not ATF) and make your own decision [thumbsupbig]
Not saying what i use is gospel for others but it works for me and my usage i do use Redline and am happy with my results[bigwhistle]

[Michael2]

For a long time I used Penrite Synthetic ATF in the R380 (Defender) as it had better high temp stability than Light Gear Oil.

I'd also found the Penrite Light Gear oil gave a very notchy and poor shift in the LT77 box (Classic Range Rover).

I've since used the Redline, which has been pretty good, but have since switched to the Nulon 75-80, which has given the best shift characteristics of all the oils.

[rick130]

Mate,do yourself a favour,run Redline MTL.I"ve run it in temps from freezing Kalgoorlie winter's to boiling Newman summers with not issue's what so ever.I'll disagree with every poster on this forum over this,MTL is better than ANY oil or fluid in the R380,and I think I've used them all. Pat

I'll disagree ! [biggrin]

It's good, but not the best I've used, and I've made up witches brews of MTL and MT90 to cure the dreaded bearing rattle/shift quality deteriorating at high temps too.

Motul Gear 300 is the overall best I've used, but Neo 7W racing gear oil has the hands down best cold shifting I've ever experienced in an R380.

[PAT303]

I'll disagree ! [biggrin]

It's good, but not the best I've used, and I've made up witches brews of MTL and MT90 to cure the dreaded bearing rattle/shift quality deteriorating at high temps too.

Motul Gear 300 is the overall best I've used, but Neo 7W racing gear oil has the hands down best cold shifting I've ever experienced in an R380.

Never heard of Neo 7W but I'll take your word on it.Were do you get it from Rick?.

[bsperka]

Severe applications can mean anything from stop/start traffic to using it as a 4wd.

[rick130]

Never heard of Neo 7W but I'll take your word on it.Were do you get it from Rick?.
Left over from my race days several lifetimes ago Pat.
The then importer used to sponsor me.
Their gear and engine oil cost $95/5 litres in 1995.[emoji33]

[PAT303]

Yep,I remember those days Rick,my Kart is still in the shed,I would break it's back putting my voluptuous arse in it these days. Pat

[4runnernomore]

Hi all,

just had a new Ashcroft's gearbox and transfer fitted to Chaffy my TD5 D2 with all the options ticked. HD bearings, sleeved case etc, etc hopefully making it as strong as it can get. My transfer already runs the extended finned sump, which was transferred to the new transfer and had a $$ATB fitted.

After a lot of research my mechanic (landrover D2 TD5 owner as well) decided on running Penrite Progear 70W-75 full synthetic in the gearbox for the quality shifting and resistance to shearing in the heat.

still in the running in phase with only about 600km on the gearbox transfer combo so far. Gearbox shift has been a bit stiff especially into third. Box has been adjusted a couple of times and with some km getting put on it now it appears to be shifting better.

I'm inthe NT and do a lot of high speed highway km between Katherine and Darwin @120-130 km hour with air temps up to 40 degree ambient especially with the build up happening.(God knows what the temp coming off the road will be, probably at least 60 degrees)

Heading down to Katherine in the morning when it's cooler the gearbox temp peaked at 94-95degrees. On the way back to Darwin in the afternoon on another day gearbox temp peaked at 100 and touched 101 for a little bit.

I dont recall call my gearbox temps getting that high on my old gearbox ( not sure what oil it was running ).

I can't find anything on the net regarding specific heat range for the 70-75 and I am hoping it will be more than fine been a fully synthetic. Obviously a bit concerned with temps hitting 100 after spending so much coin on the new gearbox and transfer.

going to change out the oil around the 1000-1200 km mark to get of any build swaff/bronze.

Should I be concerned about the temps the box is reaching seeing as I don't recall my old box getting that hot. Once we have some additional km on the box would I be better off running the PROGEAR 75/85 or 75W/90 as it specifically mentions consistent high temps and shock loads. Obviously I want to maintain quality shifting characteristics.mRemember I am in the NT availability can be an issue. However the Penrite range seems to be well represented up her.


Rick 130 would really like to hear your advice.


Cheers, Chris

[rick130]

Chris, my personal preference fort the R380 is Motul Gear 300.
The shift quality is superb, and you don't get the bearing and gear rattle that oils such as Castrol Syntans 75W-85 can exhibit at high ambients.
Don't let anyone tell you it's too thick/high viscosity, it works well to below 0°, something you won't need to worry about. ;)

If you can source it, that is my go to, just be prepared for sticker shock.

The work BT50 with the MT82 is now filled with Pro Gear 75W-90 and the shift quality when cold has suffered when compared to the Mazda factory fill.

[donh54]

Has anyone asked Ashcroft for their recommendation?

[scarry]

it maybe "ok" but it definitely isn't anywhere near as good.

seen it too many times now.

once gear changes start to slow down using the nylon, change to syntrans and after a couple of weeks the difference is obvious.

have yet to see it not improve a box running nylon..

always prepared for a first time tho :p

Hmm,have to agree,noticed in the cold weather,shifting while cold is not good,once hot perfect.

I spoke to the guy at the dealer,his comment was go back to mineral oil in the Vans,and all will be OK.Every synthetic oil they have tried has caused customer complaints.Strange the original synthetic OEM oil,with very long drainage intervals was fine,but it is not available,even from the dealer.

[rick130]

Has anyone asked Ashcroft for their recommendation?MTF94 or equivalent

[4runnernomore]

Has anyone asked Ashcroft for their recommendation?


Chris, my personal preference fort the R380 is Motul Gear 300.
The shift quality is superb, and you don't get the bearing and gear rattle that oils such as Castrol Syntans 75W-85 can exhibit at high ambients.
Don't let anyone tell you it's too thick/high viscosity, it works well to below 0°, something you won't need to worry about. ;)

If you can source it, that is my go to, just be prepared for sticker shock.

The work BT50 with the MT82 is now filled with Pro Gear 75W-90 and the shift quality when cold has suffered when compared to the Mazda factory fill.


Thanks Rick, appreciate your insight and experience.

Donh54, Ashcroft website still states MTF94. I have sent them an email asking the question.

Cheers, Chirs

[rick130]

Donh54, Ashcroft website still states MTF94. I have sent them an email asking the question.

Cheers, Chirs

Texaco in the UK still make it, just that Caltex stored importing it a few years. ago

Castrol Syntrans 75W-85 is excellent, but at high ambients and under high load it starts to get a little thin and you can get shift baulking and gear rattle, as does Redline MTL and the MTL/MT90 brew I used (before Redline released their 75W-85.)

[4runnernomore]

Texaco in the UK still make it, just that Caltex stored importing it a few years. ago

Castrol Syntrans 75W-85 is excellent, but at high ambients and under high load it starts to get a little thin and you can get shift baulking and gear rattle, as does Redline MTL and the MTL/MT90 brew I used (before Redline released their 75W-85.)


It's certainly a minefield out there and the more you read the more confused you get.

it will be interesting to see what Ashcroft replies with.

I am a little worried that the 70w/75 may be to thin for the temps up here and that is why I am getting high gearbox temps. Will keep an ear out for gear rattle as well. It will be interesting to see what the oil is like after pulling it out at the 1000-1200 km. I suppose whilst running in the box the claimed quick full pressure flow at start up will be beneficial.

I already have the 70/75 to replace the existing oil in the gearbox as Repco had a AANT 30% sale on this weekend.

I will have to investigate how easily available the Motul Gear 300 is up here.

Cheers, Chris

[Roverlord off road spares]

One thing that has me wondering is:
What is "fully synthetic" oil made from?

Cheers, mick.
I watched TV program called Dirty Jobs, the compare worked at a rendering plant in that episodes, they were rendering down dead animals, like dead cows, dead deer etc . The end product was fat and meal,the meal was turned in to chicken food . The compare asked about the Oil/Tallow stuff what it's end use was, the owner of the plant said used in make up and synthethic oil.

[rick130]

I will have to investigate how easily available the Motul Gear 300 is up here.

Cheers, Chris

Either a motorbike store or contact the importer for a dealer

[Vern]

Either a motorbike store or contact the importer for a dealerWhat about motul motylgear 75/80w for gearbox and transcase??

[sierrafery]

After a lot of research my mechanic (landrover D2 TD5 owner as well) decided on running Penrite Progear 70W-75 full synthetic in the gearbox for the quality shifting and resistance to shearing in the heat.

...
The R380 box is extremely sensitive to the oil... i've changed 3 types of "alternative" oils in mine in less than a month cos the geashift was sh*t especially from cold then i bit the bullet and bought the genuine MTF94 / STC9158 which made the box to work as a new one... use only that oil in the gearbox and you'll not regret it.

[incisor]

The R380 box is extremely sensitive to the oil... i've changed 3 types of "alternative" oils in mine in less than a month cos the geashift was sh*t especially from cold then i bit the bullet and bought the genuine MTF94 / STC9158 which made the box to work as a new one... use only that oil in the gearbox and you'll not regret it.

If you have changed them in under a month then you haven’t given the additive package time to do what it needs to do IMHO

[sierrafery]

I dont think so cos after i filled it with MTF94 it changed gears like a dream on the first drive

[incisor]

I dont think so cos after i filled it with MTF94 it changed gears like a dream on the first drive

it's been my experience over many years.

but would be a dull world if everything was predictable...

[sierrafery]

I dont contest your experience but i was too fed up with that hard gear change to wait untill eventually some additive pack kicks in(i didnt even know that), maybe the fact that it's very cold here in winter (below -20*C) had some effect as well cos to select 1'st and 2'nd gear untill it warmed up was a real nightmare, the oils i've tried were as follows in this order: Castrol Syntrans 75W85(this was the worst), Mobil Delvac XTP 75W80, Red Line 75W80 mtf, all recommended by different oil dealers as being the suitable alternative for STC9158 which was not on anyone's stock, the last Red Line was the best of them but still not enough to please me as the genuine stuff did.... i'm sure now that i'll not put anything else than STC9158 in my gearbox.

[incisor]

maybe the fact that it's very cold here in winter (below -20*C) had some effect as well cos to select 1'st and 2'nd gear untill it warmed up was a real nightmare, the oils i've tried were as follows in this order:

thats exactly the reason the others are slow until warmed up...

in my neck of the woods your trying to cover your butt in the the hottest temps as it is very rarely below 0*C but can be above +40*C ambient and thats where MTF and ATF etc arent too flash and you hear your box rattling etc etc.

LR specs in the user manual reckon ATF is good from -50*C to +50*C which is why they specified it i imagine and went to MTF94 when there were failures etc as MTF had a better additive package.

any comparison should be relative to your environment and people should probably state that when discussing this subject

[4runnernomore]

Well , heard back from the man himself David Ashcroft. Unfortunately he wasn't able to provide any further insight as he did not have any experience wi the oils mentioned.

Email reply below.

Hi Chris,

Sorry but I am not familiar with these oils, we just use either MTF94 or a good ATF, they may be fine but I just have no experience with them,

Sorry we cant help further,


Kind regards
Dave Ashcroft

so no closer to any answers, looks like we are pioneers.

Cheers, Chris