Japan honouring War dead, right, or wrong?

[bob10]

Considering Japan does not teach their children about WW2, should this happen? Bob


BBC News - Remembering Japan's kamikaze pilots (http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26256048)

[bob10]

And, what Japanese history lessons leave out, Bob


BBC News - What Japanese history lessons leave out (http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21226068)

[lyonsy]

Honoring your country's war dead is a basic right of any country
But they also need to rember what they were ordered to do and did. Its same as Germany

[jonesfam]

Not the solders fault what those in power decide.
The whole culture & education of Japan was different before WW2 so, by all means, honour those that gave their lives.
Jonesfam

[DeeJay]

Bob,
The only common thing between those two articles was that they were about WW2 & Japan.
Two totally different subjects in the one thread..

[Jojo]

Every soldier fights for a righteous cause. It is only the winning one who decides whose cause is more righteous.
Let them remember all the lives lost needlessly!

[mikehzz]

History...if you invade other countries and you don't win, then you are an arsehole. Churchill had a good quote, "History will be kind to me because I will write it". :D

[schuy1]

I do not begrudge the remembering of war dead,The "Honoring" of participates that wantonly disregarded the rules of war in regard to civilians and captured I do question, The convenient overlooking of their history in the school system is also questionable, considering the extant it is done in Germany . The reasoning behind it of course lies with American requirements to have Japan on side for the cold war and to aid the eastern expansion and consolidation of American business ops after the war!( Yeah yeah, Im cynical :D) The same reason Russia was allowed to control eastern europe! And dont forget Stalin killed far more of his own than any invading forces did! cheers Scott

[85 county]

History...if you invade other countries and you don't win, then you are an arsehole. Churchill had a good quote, "History will be kind to me because I will write it". :D

and he did and it is

[bob10]

Bob,
The only common thing between those two articles was that they were about WW2 & Japan.
Two totally different subjects in the one thread..


I disagree. They are related. The Japanese have cleansed their education system of negative history of WW2, young Japanese have been taught a sterilised version since WW2. Most know nothing of Nanking, for example. There are even 'historians ' who claim it did not happen. Atrocities committed by Japanese soldiers have been omitted from their version of history. Now they want to glorify the Kamakazi, the Divine Wind, young men brainwashed into throwing their lives away, even though the War was lost.


The education of young Japanese , and the glorification of their their War ' heroes' go hand in hand. In that sense, there is indeed a common thread between the two. I'm surprised you could not make the connection. Bob

edit--follow the link to Nanking, then tell me they should be glorified.
The History Place - Genocide in the 20th Century: Rape of Nanking ... (http://www.google.com.au/url'sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CD4QFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.historyplace.com%2Fworldhisto ry%2Fgenocide%2Fnanking.htm&ei=1a0PU_DZOIWqkwWtkYDICQ&usg=AFQjCNGEVbmrz4Ri17PnMM11O_IWkT3MZQ)

www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/genocide/nanking.htm‎

Cached (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:RA-94nYaI3EJ:www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/genocide/nanking.htm+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au)
Similar (https://www.google.com.au/search?biw=1024&bih=651&q=related:www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/genocide/nanking.htm+nanking&tbo=1&sa=X&ei=1a0PU_DZOIWqkwWtkYDICQ&sqi=2&ved=0CEIQHzAD)





In December of 1937, the Japanese Imperial Army marched into China's capital city of Nanking and proceeded to murder 300,000 out of 600,000 civilians

And ;

Kamikaze (http://www.ww2australia.gov.au/waratsea/kamikaze.html)

[Disco_Mike]

What the Japanese did during this time was hardly honourable, and it's shocking (but not unsurprising) that they're not taught more about what happened. That said, they have a right to honour those who died, but I think it's about time they told the real reason for why they died.

[303gunner]

History...if you invade other countries and you don't win, then you are an arsehole. Churchill had a good quote, "History will be kind to me because I will write it". :D
Funny, in WW1, Australia went entirely the other way.


Our first military action was to send a combined Navy/Army Task Force to the German province of Papua, seizing the radio base and preventing the place becoming a port of re-supply for German raiders harassing Australian shipping. We argued after the war to retain the province as war reparations, thus setting up a home for soldier settlers as plantation owners (who would later become Coast Watchers) and setting up a forward shield for the defence of the Australian mainland in WW2. (It is a point of RSL History that the RSSILA Branch in Pre-WW2 Kavieng on New Ireland had the highest membership saturation, with 85% of the town's white male population being members. This was in the days when you had to be a returned serviceman to be a member of the RSL!)


In every way, it was a major success in the "Nation-building" of a young Australian nation, Militarily, Strategically and Economically, and would remain so for 3/4 of the 20th Century. It proved the ability and professionalism of our armed forces against a major European power.


However, politically it was kept quiet, as it was the brainchild of Lithgow's-own Prime Minister Joeseph Cook, the PM who committed us to WW1. He was soon beaten in an election by Andrew Fisher, who was not keen for political reasons to crow the successes of his predecessor. The next "Big Thing" to trump up was the Gallipoli Campaign, which really had nothing going for it in a PR sense. Planned by the English, invading a country that wasn't threatening Australia in any way, and ultimately failing to achieve it's aims at a heavy cost to Australian life. It really didn't highlight our ability to do anything on our own as an independent nation, in fact it reinforced our place as a cog within an Empire. However, the abilities and character of the Aussie soldier still shone through, and that is rightly remembered.


But who remembers WW1 Rabaul and it's impact on Australia? And just like the Japanese, why isn't this history being taught to our schoolkids? :censored:

[Roverlord off road spares]

Hi this is Mario's wife Heather.
Just though I would put my 2 cents in.
No one wins wars, everyone looses, there is no right or wrong in wars, that how things where done back there. Our son has studied japanese language for the last 6 years. Has been over there on a student echange and met an old guy that was one of the survivor of the big bomb. We have had kids from Japan on a student exchange. It was great to see the Japanese kids and our kids getting along so great, Brendon still facebooks them. The adults should take a leaf out of there book and we might not have so many conflicts.
Our son loves the people and the country it has change so much. He wants to study more of the language over there next year if it all goes to plan.
Want to teach English over there. Same with my mother in-law she was a kid in Germany when the war broke out, and when the war ended it took over 2 years to get back to Germany after they where evacuated.
We can only hope the kids from now on lean from our mistakes.
No one wins at all. Thanks guys that my 2 cents

[Xtreme]

For a true story of the amazing relationship between a British POW and a Japanese guard half a century after WW2, I'd recommend that you see the movie 'The Railway Man'.

Apologies for being a little off topic, but still related.

[Redback]

Hi this is Mario's wife Heather.
Just though I would put my 2 cents in.
No one wins wars, everyone looses, there is no right or wrong in wars, that how things where done back there. Our son has studied japanese language for the last 6 years. Has been over there on a student echange and met an old guy that was one of the survivor of the big bomb. We have had kids from Japan on a student exchange. It was great to see the Japanese kids and our kids getting along so great, Brendon still facebooks them. The adults should take a leaf out of there book and we might not have so many conflicts.
Our son loves the people and the country it has change so much. He wants to study more of the language over there next year if it all goes to plan.
Want to teach English over there. Same with my mother in-law she was a kid in Germany when the war broke out, and when the war ended it took over 2 years to get back to Germany after they where evacuated.
We can only hope the kids from now on lean from our mistakes.
No one wins at all. Thanks guys that my 2 cents

And there in lies the problem, the Japanese kids aren't being taught what happened and can't learn from their mistakes.

Yes knowone wins in war.

Baz.

[bob10]

Hi this is Mario's wife Heather.
Just though I would put my 2 cents in.
No one wins wars, everyone looses, there is no right or wrong in wars, that how things where done back there. Our son has studied japanese language for the last 6 years. Has been over there on a student echange and met an old guy that was one of the survivor of the big bomb. We have had kids from Japan on a student exchange. It was great to see the Japanese kids and our kids getting along so great, Brendon still facebooks them. The adults should take a leaf out of there book and we might not have so many conflicts.
Our son loves the people and the country it has change so much. He wants to study more of the language over there next year if it all goes to plan.
Want to teach English over there. Same with my mother in-law she was a kid in Germany when the war broke out, and when the war ended it took over 2 years to get back to Germany after they where evacuated.
We can only hope the kids from now on lean from our mistakes.
No one wins at all. Thanks guys that my 2 cents


Thank you Heather, for that lovely story. It's always good to hear such things, and hopefully the children of today will learn from the mistakes of the past. And you are right, there are no winners in War. It always seems to be the old men who send the young ones to War, Bob

[bob10]

For a true story of the amazing relationship between a British POW and a Japanese guard half a century after WW2, I'd recommend that you see the movie 'The Railway Man'.

Apologies for being a little off topic, but still related.


Yes, I've seen that movie. Can recommend it, Bob

[alittlebitconcerned]

I disagree. They are related. The Japanese have cleansed their education system of negative history of WW2, young Japanese have been taught a sterilised version since WW2. Most know nothing of Nanking, for example. There are even 'historians ' who claim it did not happen. Atrocities committed by Japanese soldiers have been omitted from their version of history. Now they want to glorify the Kamakazi, the Divine Wind, young men brainwashed into throwing their lives away, even though the War was lost.


The education of young Japanese , and the glorification of their their War ' heroes' go hand in hand. In that sense, there is indeed a common thread between the two. I'm surprised you could not make the connection. Bob

edit--follow the link to Nanking, then tell me they should be glorified.
The History Place - Genocide in the 20th Century: Rape of Nanking ... (http://www.google.com.au/url'sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CD4QFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.historyplace.com%2Fworldhisto ry%2Fgenocide%2Fnanking.htm&ei=1a0PU_DZOIWqkwWtkYDICQ&usg=AFQjCNGEVbmrz4Ri17PnMM11O_IWkT3MZQ)

www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/genocide/nanking.htm‎

Cached (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:RA-94nYaI3EJ:www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/genocide/nanking.htm+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au)
Similar (https://www.google.com.au/search?biw=1024&bih=651&q=related:www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/genocide/nanking.htm+nanking&tbo=1&sa=X&ei=1a0PU_DZOIWqkwWtkYDICQ&sqi=2&ved=0CEIQHzAD)





In December of 1937, the Japanese Imperial Army marched into China's capital city of Nanking and proceeded to murder 300,000 out of 600,000 civilians

And ;

Kamikaze (http://www.ww2australia.gov.au/waratsea/kamikaze.html)

When in Japan I went to a Onsen (bath house) where this "battle" was reproduced in absolutely exquisite hand carved bas relief timber screens that ran around the top of every room. The intricacy and attention to detail in the carving was very impressive; the subject was not.
One "glorious" scene depicted Japanese soldiers with fixed bayonets, running down unarmed men and women fleeing for their lives. The terror and desperation of the Chinese peasants being murdered was captured in loving detail.
In this place their dubious history was not whitewashed and was in fact celebrated in all its gory detail. A week later I was reeling at the impact of having just walked through the Atomic Bomb Museum. I will never come close to understanding the mindset that can hold both these images without any apparent reflection on the inherent irony. It was sick.

[d@rk51d3]

Now they want to glorify the Kamakazi, the Divine Wind, young men brainwashed into throwing their lives away,

[/URL][/B]

Just like Gallipoli.............. or the Alamo..............?

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Just like Gallipoli.............. or the Alamo..............?

made me think of this,,,

[bob10]

The South Koreans are not impressed, Bob


BBC News - South Korea warns Japan over comfort women review (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26394850)

[bob10]

Just like Gallipoli.............. or the Alamo..............?


Gallipoli has been seen rightly or wrongly as the time Australia " came of age". I do not necessarily agree with that. However, I can understand why Gallipoli, and indeed WW1 has been etched into the collective National heart. There was probably not a family in this country that was not touched by the tragedy of WW1. The same could be said of many of the participants, but especially France. Most people forget that. However, it was the first time of great loss at War for our fledgling Nation, and it struck deep. It is as though the Nation was in a state of collective shock.


If you have ever been to a Dawn service, you must have noticed the service was not about the glorification of war, or indeed even heroic deeds. It is about the sacrifice of ordinary men and women, and the futility of War. That is the Australian mindset.


The Japanese mindset is starting to worry me. From denying the massacre at Nanking, to talking about changing their mind on the apology over the " comfort women ", to not educating their population about their National mindset in WW2, to wanting to change their constitution to allow aggressive military operations. I hope it is just sabre rattling to give China a message about the dispute over the Spratly Islands. The only thing about sabre rattling, the sabre has to be out of the scabbard . The USA is a little concerned, Bob


http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL33436.pdf

[bob10]

made me think of this,,,


I think this is more appropriate, Bob


John Fogerty "Deja Vu All Over Again" acoustic 2008 - YouTube (http://youtu.be/wkazf7znllQ)