Surging Puma

[Chops]

Good evening boys and girls,

Some may remember a few weeks ago,, well months now, I had an issue with the turbo hose busting and stranding me.
For anyone who's had this happen, you'll know the symptoms,, surging, then total loss of power :(

Well, when it happened to me, they (the dealer {Albury in this case}), replaced it with a hose straight out of a new 2013 Puma. These have a steel coil wrapped around it. At the time, Ivan (Wodonga Mech-LR Guru) says to me, "dont muck around, tie it up so it cant happen again".
Well, I didnt, I told him I would see how long it lasted without needing to be tied up. A bit of a comparison was needed ;).

So, this weekend, I get this surging feeling in the car, and moreso whilst going up a hill :mad: same as last time.
Today, I've climbed under the car to see what the damage is, and probably ring Ivan and give him the news.
Alas,,, the hose is in perfect condition :D well clear of pretty much everything, although you can see where it has rubbed very lightly on the steering column :confused: Will investigate this further.

So now the bad part,, why would it surge,,, any ideas guys? Anyone else had something similar? Its almost as if the powers been cut off for a split second or so.

The only thing I've done is change brands of fuel. I've been running Shell since I bought her, and two weeks ago I changed over to Caltex. So I've just tonight, put in the 3rd tank of Caltex.
I must say, at present, I am currently getting an extra 30K's out of a tank :D but I have to do some proper figures over a few runs.

I'll be servicing her this coming weekend, so I might do the fuel filter as well to see whats there.

[BigBlueOne]

I cant comment on the surging sorry but caltex fuel is brilliant in my 90. I get 600ks from a tank

[Dopey]

G'day Chops,
There are numerous different versions of the intercooler to turbo hose.
The latest variation in it still has the steel coil wrapped around a rubber protective piece on the hose, but also comes with a bracket that bolts on the alternator.

There are three points that the turbo hose rubs through (hose on the drivers side) these are,
1) The plastic clip on the inner guard.
2) The steering column.
3) The alternator.

With the new version there are a couple of brackets and nuts and bolts in the kit for it, and it can be a bit of a bugger to install.
The brackets hold the hose away from all three points of contact that rub through the hose.
Also the easiest tool for tightening the clamps on the hose is a flexible drive extension for a small socket.

The best thing that I have read for fixing the issue seems to be silicon hoses.
Quite a few people on here have put silicon hoses on theirs and do not seem to have the issues of rubbing through anymore, I think that the silicon hoses are a bit stronger than the rubber ones and don't droop down under the weight, don't expand under pressure like the rubber ones, and also don't have the delamination issues that seem to afflict the rubber hoses.
Mike.

[Chops]

G'day Mike, and thanks,
Yeah I'm aware of the bracket, but if the puma in the yard had one on it, he didn't take it off. 40+deg on the day, we were doing well just being outside.

When this hose does eventually look like going, I'll replace it with a silicone hose, but it can wait for now.

Right now, I just want to find out why it's acting like it's missing (like a petrol engine). It's not doing it all the time, and it seems to happen from around 2800-3000 revs, but sometimes, just cutting right out, or surging.

[BilboBoggles]

I suspect yours is a 2.4 puma? When you switch the engine off do you get three ticking grating type sounds, that's the EGR cleaning cycle. If you do get those sounds then all is good with the EGR. IF you don't or it's very noisey, then you might have a gummed up EGR valve. This valve opens and closes quite a bit as you move the throttle, I think from memory it's fully open at mid throttle above a certain rpm. But if this valve is sticking in any way then you'll find the engine surges quite a bit. I was getting about 60,000 k's out of the EGRvalves in my MY09 PUMA.

If the valve finally jams then it's easy to find, your check engine light will come on. But if it's just sluggish or intermittent then you won't always get a fault recorded, and the dealer will just tell you, they all do that..... I lived with months of surging until the falve finally jammed and the engine light came on, then the dealer replaced the valve and it was back to as new.. amazing difference.

[Judo]

I was watching this out of curiosity, but I have to say, my money is on Bilbo with an EGR issue. It matches the problem nicely IMO.

Cutting out OR surging, OR missing I would look at other issues, but all of them intermittently is what leads me to this conclusion...

[Chops]

Thanks guys, I'll listen for the clicks, I'm aware of them, but I'll see if I can pick up on how loud they are.

[Chops]

OK, the "clicks" are there when I shut down the engine, although, sometimes they're louder than other times.
The cars a touch over two years old, and done about 75k.

Probably a dumb question, but as a point of interest, is there anyway of cleaning EGR?
I've done a search, but can only find info about removing it, and remapping the motor. Just wondering if it can be pulled apart and maybe cleaned out with brake cleaner or something similar(?).

[Chops]

OK, the "clicks" are there when I shut down the engine, although, sometimes they're louder than other times.
The cars a touch over two years old, and done about 75k.

Probably a dumb question, but as a point of interest, is there anyway of cleaning EGR?
I've done a search, but can only find info about removing it, and remapping the motor. Just wondering if it can be pulled apart and maybe cleaned out with brake cleaner or something similar(?).

OK,, stop looking, its amazing what You Tube has on it :D

[dullbird]

I was going to say EGR and yes you can clean them...JC told Ian how to clean ours....

[Chops]

I was going to say EGR and yes you can clean them...JC told Ian how to clean ours....

Thanks DB, I might send him a PM and ask him to explain if theres any tricks. It does'nt look difficult at all from what I've seen,,, just getting it off the car is the hardest part,, its looking a bit of a tight squeeze :eek:

[Chops]

Well, I have given her a new air filter, cleaned the. MAF sensor, checked everything else I can, but to no avail.

It seems every time you hit the slightest of inclines, she seems to starve for fuel. This is not noticeable so much in the city driving, but wow, out on the open road :mad:

I still have to change the fuel filter yet, that's a job for this coming weekend, and will also pull off the turbo hose to check if it's got a split in it. The symptoms feel just like it did when the hose went the first time.

Any info/insight as to where the problem could lay would be helpful guys.

Cheers guys.

[rar110]

My wife has a Peugeot common rail diesel that was surging after 60,000 km. The cause was put down to a gummed up fuel filter or carbon build up in the intake manifold. A new filter and some chemical treatment to the manifold has fixed the problem.

[Chops]

Thanks Rar110, I'm thinking the fuel filters probably got a lot to answer for in this instance too.
I'm running some 2stroke through her at the moment to help clean her up a bit too.

On the way home tonight from work, I've managed to get her booked into have the fitler changed after work Thursday by Ford, so looking forward to seeing how that works.

The only problem is, this arvo, the Ford guy said that they have had a few pumps let go,,, :(
Will wait and see.

[eckwalsh]

Hi Guys.
Had this same drama just before xmas. Cleaned the MAF, filters etc. checked the EGR which was faulty but didn't fix the problem.This was all done at the dealers. Ended up they removed the fuel tank and found that there was like a vaseline/grease substance in the pick up lines for the fuel pump/sender. They replaced this entire unit as this gunk degraded the pipes.Problem solved. goes like new now.

[Chops]

Hmm, funny you should say that, but mine wasn't vass.

Over the past two weeks, have changed the air filter, cleaned the MAP,, these did nothing, then cleaned the MAF, this had a fair bit of dirt on it, deposited by water :confused:, I'm sure that shouldn't have happened, anyway, that helped a bit.
Thursday arvo, booked the car in with Ford in Dandenong to have the fuel filter done.
WOW,,, top blokes there, and the consensus was from three different mechs, that the filter has never been changed. This should have been done at 40k service,,, at the dealers :angrylock:
Emptied the filter onto a rag, lots of dirt, green paint flecks, ( from my Jerries) and when the tap at the bottom was opened up, out comes a heap of crappy looking ****, which kind of looked like clearish/pasty jelly :mad:

So I was expecting some dirt/crap, including the paint chips,, but the guys at Ford we're raising eyebrows as to why the jelly type stuff was there in such quantities.

Anyway, seems they don't use priming pumps etc, just air to push the fuel into the filter which worked well, but I think I'd still be a tad nervous doing it that way :angel:,, so I'll be getting spare filters etc to do it all myself in future,,, just can't trust the dealers :( It's just so wrong that we pay so much, for what,,, to be told the jobs done,, pfff. ****ing *******. :angrylock:

[justinc]

Hmm, funny you should say that, but mine wasn't vass.

Over the past two weeks, have changed the air filter, cleaned the MAP,, these did nothing, then cleaned the MAF, this had a fair bit of dirt on it, deposited by water :confused:, I'm sure that shouldn't have happened, anyway, that helped a bit.
Thursday arvo, booked the car in with Ford in Dandenong to have the fuel filter done.
WOW,,, top blokes there, and the consensus was from three different mechs, that the filter has never been changed. This should have been done at 40k service,,, at the dealers :angrylock:
Emptied the filter onto a rag, lots of dirt, green paint flecks, ( from my Jerries) and when the tap at the bottom was opened up, out comes a heap of crappy looking ****, which kind of looked like clearish/pasty jelly :mad:

So I was expecting some dirt/crap, including the paint chips,, but the guys at Ford we're raising eyebrows as to why the jelly type stuff was there in such quantities.

Anyway, seems they don't use priming pumps etc, just air to push the fuel into the filter which worked well, but I think I'd still be a tad nervous doing it that way :angel:,, so I'll be getting spare filters etc to do it all myself in future,,, just can't trust the dealers :( It's just so wrong that we pay so much, for what,,, to be told the jobs done,, pfff. ****ing *******. :angrylock:

Hi Marcus, good news it wasn't a pump, but :mad::mad::mad: for having it serviced and never having changed the filter:mad::mad::mad:

I am happy to explain to Puma owners why we spend their $$ on new filters every major service, (They are a little exxy, even the aftermarket ones...) as CRD is very intolerant of poor fuel supply and quality. Interesting to note the 2.2 Puma def has an electric intank primer pump, (Like the D3 etc) where the earlier 2.4 doesn't.

I would treat the system with a biocide and then change the filter again after a few tankfuls. All should be OK then.

JC

[Chops]

Hi justin,
I was thinking of doing the filter again when I come back from our trip over Easter.
I'd finished writing my last post, then started a drive home, via Dandenong Ranges with Leeanne when the problem happened again :mad:. It did it twice in fact within only a few minutes, but then did'nt happen again for the rest of the trip. It was a lot lighter/less than previously when it did happen, but, it still happened. So we decided the filter would get another change over very soon.
I'll only get the chance to have this one tank go through before we head off, so when I get back is when it will have to be.

Cheers

[rar110]

Same experience for the Peugeot with one non dealer franchised motor servicing business. The fuel filter looked like it hadn't been changed in a long time, much longer than 10,000 km ago. I paid $70 for a filter that was probably never changed.

Good mechanical service is gold. Anything else is an expensive waste of time.

[Chops]

Well, have Solent the morning at Port Lincoln Land Rover to no avail. :(

He hooked the car up to the works computer to find out it won't do its Pilot Learning program thingy, so I'm guessing the dealer will have to look into that.
He replaced the MAF sensor, but this has made no difference unfortunately.

One good thing to come out of this mornings efforts, was he had a car in the yard exactly like mine which had been chipped. Wow, so much better to drive, and much better pick up/acceleration. I know what we'll be doing as soon as we can ;)

[Cracka]

Thats a bugger still no result......

You didn't happen to see what breed the 'chip' was did you.