Does this look right

[Kevin B]

Got the sump of my project engine, looks pretty dark and smelly, also the bigend bolts are rancidly tight and once cracked dont come out easy.

1993 Discovery 1 3.5l
2" Lift, Cranked HD Trailing Arms
31" Maxxis Mudders
Tons of Radios, Tons of Spotties

[101RRS]

When you say the bolts dont come out easily what exactly do you mean - once cracked they should come out of the conrod easily enough - don't just undo each bolt individually - loosen one a bit then the other a bit and back to the other etc. Most should come out of the bottom part of the conrod (not sure what it is called) but I did have two bolts that would not actually come out of the bottom part of the conrod but did no cause any issues in the rebuild process.

Garry

[MattyGM]

... the bottom part of the conrod (not sure what it is called)...

Garry

Big end :)

[sheerluck]

Got the sump of my project engine, looks pretty dark and smelly, also the bigend bolts are rancidly tight and once cracked dont come out easy.......

The bolts should be splined (if that's the right word) so they fit through the top side of the conrod without spinning. They should be quite difficult to take out.

They are 'supposed' to be single use only as well.

[101RRS]

Big end :)

That is the whole of the bottom end of the conrod - but the removable bit that contains the lower bearing shell of big end must have a specific name.

You cannot actually pull the big end off the conrod.

[Kevin B]

I meant after cracking them one side at a time then taking them out each side a bit at a time as Gary said, even when they were half way out they still would not turn by hand, right to the last thread, it became apparent why whn I got them out, there was some type of threadlock goo on them, thould there have been ?

[Kevin B]

Here is some picss of the bigend bearings and the crank, im bot taking them all off yet cause I have to source a 1-5/16 impact socket to get the crank pulley off and get the cam out as well, so im stuck for the moment.

1993 Discovery 1 3.5l
2" Lift, Cranked HD Trailing Arms
31" Maxxis Mudders
Tons of Radios, Tons of Spotties

[101RRS]

it became apparent why whn I got them out, there was some type of threadlock goo on them, thould there have been ?

When I put mine back in on the weekend I thread locked them as an extra precaution so I don't believe it is an issue. While I did not use ARP bolts on these I did for the mains and ARP said it is Ok to use threadlocker on them and I did.

Garry

[Kevin B]

Excuse my Noob questions here but what are ARP bolts and why cant you reuse the bolts?

[MattyGM]

That is the whole of the bottom end of the conrod - but the removable bit that contains the lower bearing shell of big end must have a specific name.

You cannot actually pull the big end off the conrod.

Ah big end bearing cap.

[sheerluck]

Excuse my Noob questions here but what are ARP bolts and why cant you reuse the bolts?

ARP Bolts ARP | The Official Web Site (http://arp-bolts.com/)

And not reusing the bolts - those bolts are under huge stress. For the sake of a few dollars, it's removing something that may well have weakened over the course of however many million revolutions.

[101RRS]

Excuse my Noob questions here but what are ARP bolts and why cant you reuse the bolts?

I should have said ARP studs not bolts - basically studs are better than bolts as there is no turning motion on the thread in the block etc. You should not reuse bolts as they are stretch bolts and they would have already been stretched. I don't know about conrod bolts but as all the main load through the conrod is down so not a lot of load on the bolts - note they are quite small compared to the main bearing bolts. The main load on the conrod bolts is on the up stroke where are either compressing the fuel mixture or exhaust gas out. I reused mine as they the engine was low km.


Ah big end bearing cap.

Thats them :).

[Kevin B]

Ok thanks guys, I will renew them but I didn't know that and would have reused the old ones, see it pays to ask, I do however suspect this engine has had a rebuild but im unsure how long ago and as Dave said for a few buck, better safe than sorry

[MattyGM]

Ok thanks guys, I will renew them but I didn't know that and would have reused the old ones, see it pays to ask, I do however suspect this engine has had a rebuild but im unsure how long ago and as Dave said for a few buck, better safe than sorry

Engines hopefully don't need to come apart very often (hopefully!) so best chuck anything suspect and replace all fasteners, re tap threads and clean everything as much as possible.

[Kevin B]

Yes as soon as its all stripped block is off to mate to be tested, cleaned and honed, but before that im dreading trying to get the crank pully bolt off when I get the correct socket.

[PLR]

Ok thanks guys, I will renew them but I didn't know that and would have reused the old ones, see it pays to ask, I do however suspect this engine has had a rebuild but im unsure how long ago and as Dave said for a few buck, better safe than sorry

3.5 doesn`t use yield bolts so they don`t have to be replaced

[Kevin B]

3.5 doesn`t use yield bolts so they don`t have to be replaced

So are you saying i can reuse the 10 Main bearing bolts i will remove from it as they are not "Yield Bolts" ??

[PLR]

So are you saying i can reuse the 10 Main bearing bolts i will remove from it as they are not "Yield Bolts" ??

All 3.5 bolts are reusable if any good .

Though nothing wrong with stress exchange idea .

Mains aren`t yield on any to my knowledge , bigends are on other than 3.5

Don`t think yield is right degree may be better ?

[PhilipA]

To answer the first post in this thread That crankcase appearance is fine and not dirty etc etc. It's just as you would expect.

The main thing you chould worry about and check is whether the main caps were tight to remove, as if they are loose then the block is toast.

The con rods big ends can be line bored , as can the block.
AFAIK you can reuse the bolts.

The crank is a bit marked but can be ground undersize if the marks will not polish out. The main thing to consider with the crank is whether the thrust washers are worn, as the oversize needed on these determines the oversize needed for the bearings . Or at least it did when I last did a bottom end in 1985! It doesn't look like you checked the end play before dismantling, as manuals often need oversize thrusts but autos are usually OK for obvious reasons to do with pushing in the clutch.
Regards Philip A

[Kevin B]

To answer the first post in this thread That crankcase appearance is fine and not dirty etc etc. It's just as you would expect.

thats good news


The main thing you chould worry about and check is whether the main caps were tight to remove, as if they are loose then the block is toast.

The main caps were very easy to remove but they were not loose they had a very snug fit, if by tight you mean i needed to prize them out, i didnt.


The con rods big ends can be line bored , as can the block.
AFAIK you can reuse the bolts.

ok ill more than likely send them with the block when it goes to be sorted out, i may just get new bolts and keep these for spares too.



The crank is a bit marked but can be ground undersize if the marks will not polish out. The main thing to consider with the crank is whether the thrust washers are worn, as the oversize needed on these determines the oversize needed for the bearings . Or at least it did when I last did a bottom end in 1985! It doesn't look like you checked the end play before dismantling, as manuals often need oversize thrusts but autos are usually OK for obvious reasons to do with pushing in the clutch.
Regards Philip A

ill send the crank off as well to have that checked, ill do some research and suss the thrush washers as well, now when you say end play, i didnt check this as i didnt know, how was this supposed to have been done?, im unsure if engine was from an auto or a manual either,

thanks Phillip

Kevin

[101RRS]

ill send the crank off as well to have that checked, ill do some research and suss the thrush washers as well, now when you say end play, i didnt check this as i didnt know, how was this supposed to have been done?, im unsure if engine was from an auto or a manual either,

thanks Phillip

Kevin

When you send the crank off for checking, polishing and possibly machining they will check all that. When you get it back it should have a little tag on it like below and you just order your bearings in accordance with the tags. The packet of bearings will have the main bearing shell with the appropriate size thrust bearing as part of it.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Forum%20Posts%20Album/P2070260_zps487e95d0.jpg (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/gazzz21/media/Forum%20Posts%20Album/P2070260_zps487e95d0.jpg.html)

Garry

[PhilipA]

The main caps were very easy to remove but they were not loose they had a
very snug fit, if by tight you mean i needed to prize them out, i didnt.

Hmm they are supposed to be tight enough in the registers to "snap" in and out. You should not be able to just push teh register into position.The registers are the very bottom bit of the cap that sticks out to the sides. It is important that they are very tight or the bearing caps can"shuffle" and even ARP studs will not hold them.
Regards Philip A

[Kevin B]

Hmm they are supposed to be tight enough in the registers to "snap" in and out. You should not be able to just push teh register into position.The registers are the very bottom bit of the cap that sticks out to the sides. It is important that they are very tight or the bearing caps can"shuffle" and even ARP studs will not hold them.
Regards Philip A

ok im getting a bit confused here,just what bit are you talking about Philip, is it this that fit into the block or are talking about the bearing itself if you are then yes that snaps in ans was hard to get out

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/technical-chatter/73737d1393932144-does-look-right-1393932141015.jpg

[PhilipA]

No, the outside bits that are not in your picture, where the cap meets the block just around "the corner" of where the bolts go through.
Regards Philip A

[Kevin B]

Ok well the cap goes in nice and snug with no play

1993 Discovery 1 3.5l
2" Lift, Cranked HD Trailing Arms
31" Maxxis Mudders
Tons of Radios, Tons of Spotties

[PhilipA]

I suggest that you read page 33 of "How to Power Tune Rover V8 Engines" by Des Hammill.
It should be available as PDF on the web.
Regards Philip A

[Kevin B]

I suggest that you read page 33 of "How to Power Tune Rover V8 Engines" by Des Hammill.
It should be available as PDF on the web.
Regards Philip A

I Just did... Oh dear..

[101RRS]

I Just did... Oh dear..

Ok - I just read the relevant page - what does the "Oh Dear" mean.

Garry

[Kevin B]

the bearing cap on the engine i have (the one i checked anyway) does not appear to be an interferance fit, it slides in smoothly and there is no play at all but it does not "snap" in as the document suggests it should.

[101RRS]

Well if there is no damage to the bolt holes or cracks there I wouldn't worry about it.

[Kevin B]

Well if there is no damage to the bolt holes or cracks there I wouldn't worry about it.

Gary,

Thanks ill give it a good look over and if i cant see anything ill send to to a pro, i have been following your thread on you build as well, very cool and if i come across a 4.6 block in the near future i may just grab it, im not sure you may have posted this already and i just missed it but did you send your block away to be tested for cracks and hardness + plus anything else before you started

Kevin

[101RRS]

i just missed it but did you send your block away to be tested for cracks and hardness + plus anything else before you started

Kevin

No - the issue with my block was that it had a stripped head stud hole. The engine was low km, not overheated and already top hatted so the block just went in for cleaning, visual check, honing and the hole repaired.

Garry

[Kevin B]

Is a double row timing chain std kit for these engines,

1993 Discovery 1 3.5l
2" Lift, Cranked HD Trailing Arms
31" Maxxis Mudders
Tons of Radios, Tons of Spotties

[101RRS]

The all V8s have single row as standard but you should get a double for your 3.5. The 4.0 and 4.6 engines can only take a single row chain.

Garry

[Kevin B]

Thanks Gary, I peered into the timing cover past the crank today and it appears to have had a double fitted at some stage, probably when the pistons were changed, its a pity I dont know when that was.

1993 Discovery 1 3.5l
2" Lift, Cranked HD Trailing Arms
31" Maxxis Mudders
Tons of Radios, Tons of Spotties

[Kevin B]

This is what the pistons looked kike after a clean up

1993 Discovery 1 3.5l
2" Lift, Cranked HD Trailing Arms
31" Maxxis Mudders
Tons of Radios, Tons of Spotties

[PhilipA]

It doesn't really matter what they look like, although they are very pretty.

What is important is the ring land wear and the clearances in the bore.
Regards Philip A