Caravans - new V old

[Homestar]

Just thought I'd post some thoughts here about the differences between new and old caravans. I've just become the owner of an older version - a 1977 Franklin 16' to be precise. It is a big, 8 foot wide, full height job that has all the aerodynamics of a brick. Good job I'll eventually be towing it with another brick - my 101, so that doesn't matter too much.

Anyway, I towed it home a couple of hundred KM with the work dunny door. It towed really well - it wasn't windy mind you, and the car averaged around 14/100 towing it. On the way home we ran it over a weigh bridge - it came in at 940kg which is a little over its tare weight, but it had some solid, heavy home made beds and bunks in it which have been stripped out, so I may be back to under 900kg which is about right for this van.

While I was looking up some info on this van, I found that Franklin were using composite construction techniques back from the late 60's. the construction is the aluminium cladding glued to a foam core, and a plywood inner skin. The windows are framed on 3 sides with timber so they have something to hang off.

Now, putting off road vans aside for a second, my research also showed that the average weight for a modern, road going van is 115Kg per foot (gross). Now, if I add a mattress, food, crockery, etc, etc I would be up near the gross weight for this van which is 1140Kg. I know it hasn't got AC or hot water, but that still makes it around 70kg per foot.

So, what extra is in a modern van to make it so heavy? I believe most new vans have timber frames, which would make them heavier too.

So, have we really advanced in the caravan stakes over the years, or are we happy to be hoodwinked into believing that these weights have always been the norm?

Oh, and I know someone will bring up reliability and longevity, but I've been chatting to folks on other forums that have had similar vans since new, some putting hundreds of thousands of KM on them and they are still tight.

I'd be interested to know others here who have vans - new and old - and what they weigh compared to length, and where you think all the weight hides.

[justinc]

Hi Gav,

our van is only a year old, full height 21'6" semi off road version with cruisemaster independent susp, 12" brakes and is ally clad etc. It doesn't have a hot dipped chassis, which I was told wasn't available as an option which is a pity, but has the full offroad version heavy duragal/ supagal chassis. With all the mod cons, shower and ensuite, hot water , 200litres of water, 3 solar panels, 3 batteries, toilet, A/C etc etc etc it weighs in at 2520kg empty

Close to 3 tons loaded.

I would say it has everything to do with all the 'stuff' people want to add to their vans nowadays. Build quality and materials have improved to a point, but I think driven more about profitability than longevity.
if I get the lifespan from some of the old vans like yours I'll be happy.


JC

[Redback]

The thing about older vans is how they were built, not what they were built with(cheap plywood) and this is why they will out last the modern van, the gear they were built with was cheap and nasty, but caravan makers in those days took pride in the workmanship and built them to last, also extras, most modern vans have that much extra stuff in them, like showers larger water tanks, heaps more plumbing and electrics and more cooking stuff, ovens, Microwaves, A/C, bigger rims, larger windows.

Baz.

[DoubleChevron]

The thing about older vans is how they were built, not what they were built with(cheap plywood) and this is why they will out last the modern van, the gear they were built with was cheap and nasty, but caravan makers in those days took pride in the workmanship and built them to last, also extras, most modern vans have that much extra stuff in them, like showers larger water tanks, heaps more plumbing and electrics and more cooking stuff, ovens, Microwaves, A/C, bigger rims, larger windows.

Baz.

It's crazy... The roads have improved dramatically around australia over the last 30years.... So the current crop of 'vans "HAVE" to be high, absolutely immense, indestructable RHS drawbars, that go right back to the massive chassis axle hangers. They are bloody unbelievable how tough and strong the chassis is built, then you have all the modern cons on top of it. I reckon 0.05% of them would even see a gravel road in there lifetime.

I've been looking at old 'vans too. My old man keeps telling me to look at old franklins due to the foam sandwich construction. he said they were hated when new "they'll fall apart before you even get them home"........ Look at the number still on the roads 30years later though .... Most likely because the frames don't rot out when they leak..... 'cos there is no frame :)

I "almost" bough a really tidy old full sized 'van locally on ebay. I looked at it, the chasis is frail little C sections, drawbar good 'n' strong, the outrigger from the chassis are nothing, the floor is light................... The caravan was early 70's but appeared to have never leaked. All those years old, and it's still sound and excellent. So why do they need to be so heavily built ?

I did just agree to buy an old full sized 17foot Chesney. Ugly in a weird way, full aluminium frame (either that or they figurted out a way to rivet to wood) It looks like it's had a poorly repaired wall in it, but next to no rot, no water leaks, tidy and original inside, underneath is covered with surface rust but very sound. Tare weight 913kg ... for a full sized 17' bunk van.

I'll just tidy up it's wall when it's been repaired, give it a splash of paint (that it really doesn't need, it looks great from 10paces) and it'll be good to go for another 20years. I'll probalby re-seal the whole 'van "just incase". It's only labour, it won't cost anything.

The trick I've found is to find one that's never leaked (or if it has, slight staining that was immediately fixed at the time so there's no rot). There easy to pick, just open the door, if it doesn't stink you'll liekly find no evidence of leakage and rott.

I'll probably take the old Rangie down one night this week and drag it home.... I don't like towing something that I have checked the tires, bearings, lights, brakes etc on ... so I'll use the heaviest vehicle I own to bring it home (ie: the old 'Classic). Keep it under 80km/h after checking the air pressure in the tires.

seeya,
Shane L.

[Avion8]

Our 1963 Franklin Premier (badged as Wanda) has a TARE of 810kgs & AGG of 1014kgs & tows very nicely. Previous owner dragged it across the Nullarbor a few times & all over Australia. Inside is still very good with everything other than the ice box as standard - had a 3 way fridge installed back in the 70's. Has a minor water leak from the rear window, & probably needs resealing. But rubbers all seem good.

We are planning a trip around Europe in a couple of years & will get a UK modern van along the lines of Bailey of Bristol Pursuit 530, basically a 4 berth, 20 foot with a TARE of 1175kgs & AGG of 1377kgs. Also has a full en-suite for SHMBO & will probably tow with a late Defender purchased over there for the trip, maybe modified into a Dormobile for the out of the way places like Iceland! Also going to bring this lot back to Australia after the trip, so we can do the Australia trip. Then into an old folks home!:(

So I don't really understand why the Australian caravans are so heavy, as the old Franklin has done plenty of unsealed work & springs, bushes & bearings all seem to have held up well.

[DoubleChevron]

I just noticed something else.... We can now put the old caravan onto club permits in Victoria.... That's brilliant, I'm going to paint up the old caravan with the stripes the same colour as my old cars, and stick it on a club permit. That'll look fantastic (old club permit car towing an old club permit caravan!).

seeya,
Shane L.

[Mick_Marsh]

I just noticed something else.... We can now put the old caravan onto club permits in Victoria.... That's brilliant, I'm going to paint up the old caravan with the stripes the same colour as my old cars, and stick it on a club permit. That'll look fantastic (old club permit car towing an old club permit caravan!).

seeya,
Shane L.
How much is a club permit for a Caravan?
I always thought it was more expensive than full rego.

[DoubleChevron]

How much is a club permit for a Caravan?
I always thought it was more expensive than full rego.

No savings really .... $23 ( 45 day) $43 (90day) versus $48 for normal registration. I just want to plates to match :wasntme: :o How nuts is that :cool:

caravan and trailer registration is cheap in victoria.

seeya,
Shane L.

[Mick_Marsh]

No savings really .... $23 ( 45 day) $43 (90day) versus $48 for normal registration. I just want to plates to match :wasntme: :o How nuts is that :cool:

caravan and trailer registration is cheap in victoria.

seeya,
Shane L.
Shhhh!!!!!
With our club permit and trailer rego, they'll all be wanting to move down here.
Don't even mention their bad beer and our real footy.

[DoubleChevron]

Look what the rangie dragged home... up the pentland mountain in 4th gear she drops back to 2500rpm ... and just bogs down and starts hauling @sre. I think that tiny little V8 liked working for a change. you know if didnt feel much different with the caravan behind it ... a little slower up the hills, a little harder to stop ... On the flats it was really tempting to drop it into 5th and let it haul along at 2500rpm... I didn't want to go that fast with the old car tyres on the caravan (why do poeple do that .. Light Truck tyres mate .. only light truck!), and it'll probably blow the 5th gear out the side of the gearbox if I tried it :wasntme:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=74134&stc=1&d=1394621782

The kids are bouncing off the walls with excitement and want to sleep out there tonight :cool:

seeya
Shane L.

[MattyGM]

Shhhh!!!!!
With our club permit and trailer rego, they'll all be wanting to move down here.
Don't even mention their bad beer and our real footy.

+1 real footy, go bloods :p

[ozscott]

I have a Golf Pop Top that is over 20 years old - its built like a brick outhouse. Very heavily galved chassis and semi offroad clearance. Everything fits nicely and finish is excellent - very good cabinet making. BUT you have to like teak veneer. If you dont, you will look for lighter coloured modern vans. Personally I like the darker coloured wood - massive amounts of light can be let in. It has a tropical roof that you can unzip all around and all the usual windows in addition. Excellent to tow with rugged independent suspensions. If you get these 16 footers in good condition they go for around $10,000 - $15,000 depending on gear and maintenance and they are an absolute bargain. The original fridge is Sweedish and a cheap seal replacement on the door seal sees excellent performance. The paint is in excellent condition. The 12 volt wiring to the fridge was light on - I had to increase gauge to get it from 11.volts at Fridge to 13v when connected to the vehicle - I dont know if modern vans are better wired for 12v. I have added solar panels, RedArc DC to DC charger and FullRiver bat in a bat compartment. It has LPG standard and accepts 240v. The double bed is comfortable and well built. There is heaps of cupboard storage space. There were no 12v sockets as standard, but they are very easy to add and I have added 2 and 2 double adaptors for each. It doesnt leak. I doubled the space with an Aussie Traveller annexe with anti-flap.

Personally I dont see the benefit in new vans of the same length. I certainly dont imagine a new Jayco pop top having the same life span as the old Golfs.

Cheers

[DoubleChevron]

Sometimes you have to wonder .... We went an looked at a big early 80's twin axle caravan for my brother yesterday. It has a bunk room at the front, main queen sized bed room at the back..... We have a good look around it... I notice the lack of over-run brakes, so ask if the electric brakes work well..... Get this ..... This guy said "Oh, I've never worried about that, we just tow it with our modern 4wd and it's fine".............. Yes, he's hurtling down the roads, towing a caravan that would tare way over 2tons ................ Without brakes :o :o :o He's never had a brake controller in anything, so just doesn't worry about it :eek:

Why more poeple don't die on the roads really is beyond me. Is it just me, or does everyone else think towing a massive full sized twin axle caravan without any brake is utter lunacy.... You'd never stop that bloody thing, infact just merely slowing it down would be incredibly difficult.

seeya,
Shane L.

[Yorkie]

That is crazy, but then you get the other end of the scale where people are so anal about towing I am surprised they get out the driveway.

[Redback]

I was following a big twin axle van, being towed buy a Paj(early shape) I noticed that he had no brake lights, so when I got the chance I pulled up next to him to tell him and as I did notice all the wiring was tied up around the draw bar, so I informed him of this also, thanks mate, he said, I didn't realise, and then this comment, I knew I forgot something:eek::eek:

How could you not notice something like that:no2::bangin:

Baz.

[DoubleChevron]

I was following a big twin axle van, being towed buy a Paj(early shape) I noticed that he had no brake lights, so when I got the chance I pulled up next to him to tell him and as I did notice all the wiring was tied up around the draw bar, so I informed him of this also, thanks mate, he said, I didn't realise, and then this comment, I knew I forgot something:eek::eek:

How could you not notice something like that:no2::bangin:

Baz.

It must have had over-ride brakes........... 'cos you sure as **** would know without a doubt the 2nd you tried to stop the 'van brakes were out. Gee's I throw the bloody box trailer on and realise at the first touch of the brakes the reverse lever is in when I try to stop.

Even lightweight unbraked trailer feel "ok" to stop without brakes........ Try a crash stop though........ There's nothing there, you just lock everything and slide for bloody miles... It's not until you have to stop in a hurry you notice even a 6x4 will massively impact your stopping distance.

One gentle stop with a 2ton+ caravan behind you would heat your cars brakes so much you wouldn't be able to do it twice.

seeya,
Shane L.

[Redback]

How many people have you told they have a flat, I told 3 people in 2hrs on a trip south one day:eek:

Even I could hear the thump, thump, thump of the tyre from our car in the next lane:confused::confused:

Baz.

[loanrangie]

My parents had an old 70's Franklin van that dad's rangie towed all over the east coast and eventually became semi permanent at our farm at Tocumwal on the Murray.
That van was so tough it was submerged to the roof one year during floods and after cleaning /drying out it was nearly as good as it was before.

One of our managers at work imported 3 vans from the UK and 2 of them sat in our carpark for nearly a year, in that time they weathered so badly that they were almost falling apart.
I had a look in one and it was so flimsy that there is no way it would stand up to a decent aussie road trip.