Simpson desert trip ......winch needed?

[herrBlick]

Yes I'm heading on a solo car trip across the Simpson ....will I need a winch? If so who fits the tubular bar ones that look nice .
Also does any one have a spare spare wheel that they can lend me for the trip as I apparently need 2 spares for this trip.
I have a puma 2.2 ,2013

[Dave_S]

I did a big solo trip which included the Simpson. I took a Tirfor winch with me, on the basis that it is versatile, does not rely on the car's engine/electrical system to work and is light and cheap. I liked the idea of being able to drag the car forwards, backwards or sideways with the one winch. I also took a very long extension strap, pulley blocks and the usual straps and shackles.

They are slow and can be hard work, but let's face it, if you're stuck out there on your own you've got all the time in the world. :D

[herrBlick]

I did a big solo trip which included the Simpson. I took a Tirfor winch with me, on the basis that it is versatile, does not rely on the car's engine/electrical system to work and is light and cheap. I liked the idea of being able to drag the car forwards, backwards or sideways with the one winch. I also took a very long extension strap, pulley blocks and the usual straps and shackles.

They are slow and can be hard work, but let's face it, if you're stuck out there on your own you've got all the time in the world. :D

Thank you. I was thinking about a hand winch , I will have a look at the Tirfor.. Cheers

[weeds]

I would say no winch required......the only risk of getting bogged is bad weather you cross a salt pan and break through.......there aint much to connect a winch to so its either a ground anchor (which I would carry either) or dig your spare into the ground)

the simpson is straight forward 3/4 days and you are done and dusted, I travelled it solo and getting bogged or needing a winch was at the bottom of my concerns (although I did have a w inch fitted). 2nd gear high pretty much got me across

I am assuming you don't have a front bar??....some say its essential for touring the outback (i'm not convinced its essential) however your more conventional bar offers more protection than a cool looking tube bar.....

i'm about to go to a custom tube bar as there is not an off the shelf bar that suits my winch

rijidig is currently designing tube bar.......all his work seems to be of high standard

[Summiitt]

For the price of a winch I would buy a tirfor, 2 sets of max tracks, a high lift and a good long handle shovel. With this combo I have gotten myself out of every bog, be it sand, mud or steep muddy hill climbs. hard work, but very effective.

[Chops]

I did a big solo trip which included the Simpson. I took a Tirfor winch with me, on the basis that it is versatile, does not rely on the car's engine/electrical system to work and is light and cheap. I liked the idea of being able to drag the car forwards, backwards or sideways with the one winch. I also took a very long extension strap, pulley blocks and the usual straps and shackles.

They are slow and can be hard work, but let's face it, if you're stuck out there on your own you've got all the time in the world. :D

A High Lift Jack will do the same job if you already have one, or can borrow one.

[Wal Rat]

I'm afraid to say you won't be alone unless you leave now . Depending on when you leave you haven't said whether your going east /west or west / east makes a big difference.

[herrBlick]

I'm going West to East for the middle 2 weeks of June, I feel that the high lift jack and the hand winch seem to be the go.... Thank..you for the help .Are there any good itineraries on the site that I should know about? Search isn't through isn't up anything.

[DiscoMick]

I'm going Alice to Birdsville in Sepember with Drive4Life (Google it). They don't require a winch, just low range and at least AT tyres. Of course, we'll be in a group, not solo.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[n plus one]

Yes I'm heading on a solo car trip across the Simpson ....will I need a winch? If so who fits the tubular bar ones that look nice .
Also does any one have a spare spare wheel that they can lend me for the trip as I apparently need 2 spares for this trip.
I have a puma 2.2 ,2013

I wouldn't fit a winch for a solo Simpson trip. What route across are you planning to take? Be aware that the French Line was very badly scalloped out at the end of last season.

[JDNSW]

I would consider that just about anything would be more likely to be needed in the Simpson than a winch. Or just reduce the weight carried by that amount.

I spent nearly two years working in the Simpson, with a total of about twenty vehicles. There was not a single occasion on which a winch would have been useful, although four or five of the vehicles actually had winches.

The major equipment needed is fuel and water, and keep the weight as low as possible.

John

[weeds]

I'm going West to East for the middle 2 weeks of June, I feel that the high lift jack and the hand winch seem to be the go.... Thank..you for the help .Are there any good itineraries on the site that I should know about? Search isn't through isn't up anything.

Just had a look at pics of your car........I cannot see anywhere you would attach a hi-lift jack too. You could buy the adaptor for the rear cross member but that's about it. Hi-lift are heavy, difficult to store and no all that useful.

Seriously a puma will walk across the Simpson

I replied to a thread today about a member planning his Simpson trip........it should be too far down the list. He has an itinerary you could play with as he is travelling from Melbourne from memory...hang on his car is at Mulgos so he might be Sydney.

I took three days to cross the Simpson. East to west. Big Red, QAA, Knolls Track, Rig Rd than into Mt Dare. The rig rd is less used, we travelled the school holidays and only came across three other cars.

Everybody does mention weight.....which I agree with however I must would have been over GVM as I took plenty of supplies just in case as I was travelling solo.

Have you thought about fuel??

Others than that enjoy the trip.......

[weeds]

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php?p=2041870#post2041870

[2stroke]

Maybe take a long handle shovel, you'll be digging at least one hole each evening anyway. I've only been stuck once out there and that was operator error, pure and simple. In 2010 Lake Poeppel was very wet and I entered on the wrong track, gassed it and sunk to the chassis. It was a case of hilift jack, dig, pack tyres, reverse a metre and repeat. Took about 45 minutes and it's a lesson I'll never forget, could have easily driven around the lake to the north but thought I'd save fuel by risking it. Stick to the main track, watch the weight and you'll be fine, at worst someone'll be coming over a sandhill soon enough, just have your strap ready and they'll be only too happy to lend a hand.

[Chops]

I'm going West to East for the middle 2 weeks of June, I feel that the high lift jack and the hand winch seem to be the go.... Thank..you for the help .Are there any good itineraries on the site that I should know about? Search isn't through isn't up anything.

A good idea would be to check out some of the Trip Reports. Lots of good ideas and info that will relate to your travels.

[Bushie]

Don't worry about the winch, but invest in a decent tyre gauge and compressor.
(and most of the bits others have mentioned)


Martyn

[specwarop]

Can anyone recommend a good tyre gauge? The ones I have seen seem flimsy and likely to be inaccurate...

[Tombie]

I wouldn't take a winch, or HiLift...
But I would take maxtrax or similar.

[The Cone of Silence]

Herr Blick,

I'm the chap from Sydney who's doing the Simpson over the Easter hols, probbaly starting from Broken Hill and then working my way north, then down the Strzelecki, up the Oodnadatta and then across from West to East and into Birdsville.

I have a very good winch on my vehicle but I don't think I'll need it at any point and I'm not packing a ground anchor - I'm bringing sand tracks and a shovel for any boggy fun.....and it'll give the missus a good workout too. Win-Win.

I'm also debating leaving the second spare at home as I don't think the Simpson is going to be that harsh on tyres and it's unnecessary weight on top of the pop-top. I'm more inclined to take a spare shock absorber for the corrugations!

When are you heading out there mate? It'd be great to get a Puma photoshoot in the desert

Bobby

[herrBlick]

Herr Blick,



I'm the chap from Sydney who's doing the Simpson over the Easter hols, probbaly starting from Broken Hill and then working my way north, then down the Strzelecki, up the Oodnadatta and then across from West to East and into Birdsville.



I have a very good winch on my vehicle but I don't think I'll need it at any point and I'm not packing a ground anchor - I'm bringing sand tracks and a shovel for any boggy fun.....and it'll give the missus a good workout too. Win-Win.



I'm also debating leaving the second spare at home as I don't think the Simpson is going to be that harsh on tyres and it's unnecessary weight on top of the pop-top. I'm more inclined to take a spare shock absorber for the corrugations!



When are you heading out there mate? It'd be great to get a Puma photoshoot in the desert



Bobby


God never thought of that route, probably beats driving all the way to Adelaide. Maybe also Easter might be a better idea with time off work and that. I will have to run the figures and have a look at the calendar.

[noyakfat]

I'd recommend a long handled shovel, a good tyre pressure gauge and a reliable portable 12V compressor for reinflating tyres (also a tyre-plugging kit is a worthwhile thing to have with you).

Many problems can be avoided by being mindful of correct tyre pressures, and a bit of digging (combined with airing down even more) can get you out of most sand traps... provided you have the means to reinflate afterwards.

Also, if you do air down to very low pressures for recovery purposes, remember to keep the steering as straight as possible so you don't roll tyres off the rims.

Probably most important of all - take enough water and a means of emergency communications (i.e. sat phone).

Have fun,
Cheers

[2stroke]

I'm also debating leaving the second spare at home as I don't think the Simpson is going to be that harsh on tyres and it's unnecessary weight on top of the pop-top. I'm more inclined to take a spare shock absorber for the corrugations!



Bobby
True about the weight of the second spare but you'll continue to Birdsville, and home if necessary with 3 shock absorbers, but not with 3 tyres. It's unlikely you'd stake 2 tyres but Mr Murphy has this law...

[DeanoH]

.........................., and home if necessary with 3 shock absorbers,....................

No you won't.

On a coil sprung vehicle (with a busted shocker) the only direction your wheel will go is up and down as you try and ascend a dune. There is absolutely no natural dampening with coils. So as your wheel bounces up and down and loses traction you spin the wheel and go nowhere, though coil sprung vehicles with traction control will still get some traction as the brakes nip up. With leaf springs you will get some natural dampening as the leaves slide on one another.

Your biggest problem in mid June crossing the Simpson desert will not be getting stuck but finding peace and quiet, it'll be like Bourke St / Pitt St or whatever out there. Pack light, have good shockers (not fancy trendy bull**** brand name ones) from Pedders or another reputable company and carry a good snatch stap/tow rope, shovel and quality compressor. Don't be afraid to let your tyres down, way down and yes carry a second spare wheel (or tyre and changing tools and have the expertise to change it) as pinching a tyre/tube at low pressures is a possibility. Carrying a hand full of plugs and a spare tube is also good idea.

Leave the winch at home, it's just useless ballast. Did I mention pack light. :)

Tip. Get off the French Line ASAP and heads south to the WAA and Rig Road for a much 'quieter' and pleasant journey. :)


Deano :)

[2stroke]

My point is I'd rather try my luck on 3 shocks than 3 tyres. I Have Bilsteins and have never found myself mid Simpson without all four. I have had to repair tyres though and changing a tube on a hot windy arvo in the sand isn't what I call living the dream.:) And yes I am aware of the difference in inherrent damping between leaf and coil springs, I'd imagine the bounce on the dune approaches wouldn't be great but I reckon low 2nd would still get me over.
Edit, forgot not everyone else has a rear locker.

[Bushie]

Have to disagree there.

350km through the Great Victoria Desert and then another 360km to Ceduna with only 3 shocks didn't seem to present any huge problems.


Martyn

[Tombie]

Done the Simpson desert, Maralinga, and many other trips with only the single spare without issue...

Patches, tubes and tools are lighter and more useful. At most take a carcass.

Keep the weight DOWN...

[DeanoH]

...............350km through the Great Victoria Desert and then another 360km to Ceduna with only 3 shocks didn't seem to present any huge problems.................


Different sort of terrain Martyn and with open diffs then there's all sorts of trouble on the badly scalloped Simpson dunes. Though some sort of anti wheel spin device, locker, lsd or traction control will help a lot, especially with a crook shocker. I found that a combination of 'polyair' bags and TC compensated well for stuffed rear shocks in the D2a. :)


..................I'd imagine the bounce on the dune approaches wouldn't be great but I reckon low 2nd would still get me over................


It's my experience that what's needed on sand dunes, especially the chopped up Simpson dunes, its low tyre pressure and momentum. Low 2 may get you nowhere other than bogged down. You'll do a lot better with High 2 and 2500-3000 RPM, (diesel), the biggest problem being bouncing on the hidden scallops where good shockers are essential to stop both bottoming out and to stop lifting a wheel to avoid wheel spin (and no traction with open diffs). Finding the 'best' speed for a vehicle will take a bit of experimentation but it's unlikely to be low speed crawling. :)

Deano :)

[2stroke]

...............350km through the Great Victoria Desert and then another 360km to Ceduna with only 3 shocks didn't seem to present any huge problems.................


Different sort of terrain Martyn and with open diffs then there's all sorts of trouble on the badly scalloped Simpson dunes. Though some sort of anti wheel spin device, locker, lsd or traction control will help a lot, especially with a crook shocker. I found that a combination of 'polyair' bags and TC compensated well for stuffed rear shocks in the D2a. :)


..................I'd imagine the bounce on the dune approaches wouldn't be great but I reckon low 2nd would still get me over................


It's my experience that what's needed on sand dunes, especially the chopped up Simpson dunes, its low tyre pressure and momentum. Low 2 may get you nowhere other than bogged down. You'll do a lot better with High 2 and 2500-3000 RPM, (diesel), the biggest problem being bouncing on the hidden scallops where good shockers are essential to stop both bottoming out and to stop lifting a wheel to avoid wheel spin (and no traction with open diffs). Finding the 'best' speed for a vehicle will take a bit of experimentation but it's unlikely to be low speed crawling. :)

Deano :)
Initially high 2nd was my first choice but the one of the vehicles following had a camper trailer on and I was slowly pulling away from them, meaning I had to go too far back when they got stuck. I ended up leaving it in low 4th, even going to 5th on a light throttle on the smoothest swales, then back to 4th before the next dune, if the climb was choppy just slipped it back to 3rd and eased her up. I was surprised how well it worked. I have never tried low 2nd on a dune out there but have on beach dunes.

[The Cone of Silence]

That's a good point. I have airbags inside the springs. If I do a shoc I can always firm them up to get back to civilisation. There we go, just saved a few kilos.

I had a look at my mate's ground anchor the other day, wondering if I should get one for solo trips and I just can't justify it - those things weight a ton....and take up too much space.

I figure that if there's no trees around or rocks, digging oneself out and using tracks is the way forwards.....or making a ground anchor substitute from whatever materials are lying around, if it's possible.

[JDNSW]

You will find in the Simpson there is nothing lying around, but with sensible tyre pressures and sensible driving, the only time you have any possibility of getting stuck is on an uphill - and you can always back down. If you screw things up, then a shovel really helps, but it is amazing how much sand you can move just with bare hands!

One thing nobody has mentioned, which is perhaps so obvious that everyone assumes you know about it - if you need to jack up the vehicle in sand, you need a suitable sheet of something to spread the load. It can be dedicated to the purpose, or something such as a barbecue plate or a small table that has other uses, but when you need it, you need it.

John

[weeds]

from memory I was only on the French for a small distance before peeling off onto knolls track.........and yes it was wombat holed than the other tracks I drove

I travelled solo and had only just joined aulro a few months before the trip and did a heap of reading on other forums.......the other forums and here as well gave worst case which is good although if I was a novice 4wder after reading some comments on the net I would have shelved my plans. in reality it was no where near as bad as it was portrayed.......don't get me wrong there is some good advice been given in the thread

when you see the various types of rigs out there you will soon work out the defender will be OK

re: spare carcass.......if you ever consider this than first change a tyre at home, than think about doing it on sand, with a few hundred helpers (yep flies). by the time you purchase tyre level, rubber mallets, bead breaker (your jack will do) all the effort involved (my memories were its a pain in the arse, I had not choice back than cause that was what the employer offered)......I would rather have a complete second for piece of mine and the fact that I can relax instead of pulling a tyre off a rim.

re: keeping your weigh down........its a very common phrase however when I was on the simpson I didn't see one car with spare space in the cargo area, with or without roof rack, sure some guys might have been travelling a bit lighter 'without roof rack' than other but most seem to be loaded up. its human nature to fill every spot....esp when going remote. I would still carry the same gear second time around, my biggest saving in weigh is my new roof rack, its weighs 90kg lees than my old one. is it just the two of you? if so you will be light.....there is five of us so we have three more sets of cloths, sleeping stuff, tentage, food, water etc etc

have a well serviced car, relatively new shocks....don't read too much as it will confuse you even more......which I have contributed to.

its a great adventure..... have been there done it and hope t get back there one day

[weeds]

You will find in the Simpson there is nothing lying around, but with sensible tyre pressures and sensible driving, the only time you have any possibility of getting stuck is on an uphill - and you can always back down. If you screw things up, then a shovel really helps, but it is amazing how much sand you can move just with bare hands!

One thing nobody has mentioned, which is perhaps so obvious that everyone assumes you know about it - if you need to jack up the vehicle in sand, you need a suitable sheet of something to spread the load. It can be dedicated to the purpose, or something such as a barbecue plate or a small table that has other uses, but when you need it, you need it.

John

good point JD re: jacking plate

[Chops]

Try reading this by Vesko. Some very entertaining experiences in a Freelander,, bog stock.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/multi-state-reports/176892-my-trip-red-centre.html

[n plus one]

Make sure you have a nice high sand flag and a UHF too...:D

[weeds]

Make sure you have a nice high sand flag and a UHF too...:D

lol....don't get me started on these two

yes wack a sand flag on........just keep in mind they wont prevent all accidents

re: UHF....gotta love when I read that travellers call up to check if somebody if its right to crest or they are about to crest a dune or they expect you to....grrr, I wonder if these keyboard warriors have actually crossed the simpson....I also got pinged by a traveller (member of a S.A. 4WD Club) for not having my radio on CH 10.........we had just got rolling from the knolls area at 7:30am ish travelling south, yes between the dunes and we could see each other when we were maybe 200m apart...... soon after seeing him I remembered I hadn't turned on my radio to scan........yep scan, much to his horror.....anyway I couldn't reason with him why I thought scan was a better option than CH10 so I selected 1st and pulled away mid conversation......:censored::censored:

sooooo yes UHF is handy, travelling solo it doesn't get used much.....set it to scan is my tip of the day this way you get to know which channels all the groups are on so that if you require assistance you know that say a tag a long tour was on CH22.....I didn't pop into there general chit chat for a radio check

[n plus one]

My experience in the Simpson indicates that the general chatter on CH10 is useful as you get a sense of when you need to start looking out for oncoming. As we didn't chatter too much within our party, we regularly called out or approximate location and direction of travel, which saved a few incidents. Due to the up and down nature of the dunes any talk on the radio typically means some one is pretty close by anyway.

I run two UHFs now anyway - works well for scanning and 'private' talk - 40 channel UHF on scan, 80 channel for chat ;)

[weeds]

My experience in the Simpson indicates that the general chatter on CH10 is useful as you get a sense of when you need to start looking out for oncoming. As we didn't chatter too much within our party, we regularly called out or approximate location and direction of travel, which saved a few incidents. Due to the up and down nature of the dunes any talk on the radio typically means some one is pretty close by anyway.

I run two UHFs now anyway - works well for scanning and 'private' talk - 40 channel UHF on scan, 80 channel for chat ;)

we will have to agree to disagree.........buggered if I could work out where any other vehicle was apart from physically seeing them.....

I at times heard UHF chatter from travellers on the French Line.....I was on the Rig Rd....even if they were on the WAA I was never going to come across them

[n plus one]

we will have to agree to disagree.........buggered if I could work out where any other vehicle was apart from physically seeing them.....

I at times heard UHF chatter from travellers on the French Line.....I was on the Rig Rd....even if they were on the WAA I was never going to come across them

Fair enough, wasn't disagreeing with you, just my experience from running the French Line last year.

I caught the last of the Birdsville races crew coming the other way on my first day, so traffic was a bit of issue for a while there!